House Inspection Notification Methods? Is SMS only is ok and legal? (Perth, WA)

• 

  cDNA on 13/06/2016 - 14:19

  Which state do you live in?

  This is where I go to find info.

  http://www.fairtrading.nsw.gov.au/ftw/Tenants_and_home_owner…?

  • 

    hongas on 13/06/2016 - 14:29

    thanks,

    Perth Western Australia.

    I am questioning the methods of the notification.

• 

  enforcer on 13/06/2016 - 15:22

  Maybe there's a proper form still to come via post. Is there anything mentioning SMS contact on your lease?

• 

  [Deactivated] on 13/06/2016 - 15:23

  +7

  Why are you so bothered by getting notice by SMS? You have just moved in and you want to kick up a stink with the agent? The most important thing is you get the notice - substance over form.

  • 

    hongas on 13/06/2016 - 16:38

    I am not trying to kick up the stink with real estate agent, when we moved in we were away on family holiday. upon return from the holiday I get knock on the door lady saying I am here to inspect the house.

    due to the fact we just return from Overseas trip the house were very messy and we had our family friends over having BBQ and I told the agent saying that WE did not received any warning letter nor any SMS from the company giving us at least 7 days of notice.

    Lady were quite rude and saying SMS were sent out and would like to conduct the inspection where I said NO!. I did not get the proper notice and ample time to prepare the house. I've checked my phone and I was not able to receive SMS while I was overseas. even they sent the SMS. *if the letter were sent out then one of our family friends would have seen the letter.

    so I just want to check the law before I talk to the realestate agents again.

    • 

      inherentchoice on 13/06/2016 - 16:55

      Well apparently the case law says that a document will be served "if the efforts of the person who is required to serve the document have resulted in the person to be served becoming aware of the contents of the document." This is discussed in the legal article I linked below.

      I'm not sure if you really want to be getting into an argument with the agent about the interpretation of the law. But if you're really wanting to know how the law applies to the SMS you didn't receive, then it might need an expensive opinion from a Barrister.

• 

  psyren89 on 13/06/2016 - 15:50

  SMS is fine as it is considered "written notice". You'll need to check your lease for the minimum lead time the notice must be given before the event.

• 

  inherentchoice on 13/06/2016 - 15:57

  +1

  Under Queensland Law I think SMS service of documents permitted… http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/qld/cons…

  But the law in WA looks a bit different…

  http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/wa/conso…
  http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/wa/conso…

  And I found this article by a lawyer about electronic service… http://www.carternewell.com/page/Publications/2014/Dropboxes…

  But anyway the most relevant law is probably this section of the WA tenancies act:

  (2) It is a term of every residential tenancy agreement that the lessor may enter the premises in all or any of the following circumstances but not otherwise —
  (a) in any case of emergency;
  (b) for conducting routine inspections of the premises or any other purpose, on a day and at a reasonable time, specified by notice in writing given to the tenant —
  (i) not less than 7 days before the proposed entry; and
  (ii) within 14 days before the proposed entry;

  http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/wa/consol_act/rta1987207/…

  And then you can interpret that in light of the WA ELECTRONIC TRANSACTIONS ACT 2011 - SECT 9

  (1) If, under a law of this jurisdiction, a person is required to give information in writing , that requirement is taken to have been met if the person gives the information by means of an electronic communication, where —
  (a) at the time the information was given, it was reasonable to expect that the information would be readily accessible so as to be useable for subsequent reference; and
  (b) the person to whom the information is required to be given consents to the information being given by means of an electronic communication.

  http://www.austlii.edu.au/cgi-bin/sinodisp/au/legis/wa/conso…

  If the property manager is worth their paycheck then they will know what the law permits.

  Seriously though, do you really demand to have a paper notice? I am happy that my agent reminds me by SMS.

  • 

    endotherm on 13/06/2016 - 20:20

    (b) the person to whom the information is required to be given consents to the information being given by means of an electronic communication.

    This is the relevant section. If you opt-in for receiving notifications by email/SMS etc then it would be adequate notification. However in your case I would think you haven't authorised this, and the agents have just been lazy or thought it would be good enough because it has been good enough for others before you.

    Unfortunately for the way younger generations think, not everyone goes to bed with their phone, and has it glued to their ear and responds to any sign of activity at any moment of the day. I have a mobile phone for emergencies and rarely make calls on it. I go out 2 or 3 times a week and take it with me, but usually it is dead flat and I don't even check that it is on. When I do recharge it, maybe once a week, I sometimes get "important" SMS messages come through which could be a week old, but with todays date on them. Gems like this from Telstra: "Your credit is about to expire in 3 days" (the only notification I get by the way). Too bad that it is a week old before I get it and it has already expired.

    Many organisations are trying to convert you from paper bills/statements to email because it is easier/cheaper for them. But you have to opt in and give them your permission first. Just making assumptions that everyone wants it is poor form.

    • 

      bobwokeup on 14/06/2016 - 10:42

      Unfortunately the older generation like endotherm and my parents don't embrace technology (agreed kids shouldn't be glued to their phones) and they like wasting paper. Considering forms are completed on a computer why would anyone want to print it out, put it in an envelope and then take it to a post box, versus emailing it out once completed??? A lot more efficient and also doesn't get lost in the mail…

      • 

        endotherm on 14/06/2016 - 15:40

        +2

        Don't get me wrong, I am an uber-geek when it comes to technology. I just don't have much use for mobile phones, and my life doesn't revolve around them. I'm happy to get stuff via email, it is checked multiple times a day wherever I am. The point was that I should be making the call as to the method of delivery, and what is effective for me. It shouldn't be the sender's call because it is easier for them and "most" people prefer it.

      • 

        bobwokeup on 14/06/2016 - 16:37

        @endotherm: Yeah fair enough then. Unfortunately you are in the minority with not using the mobile phone. Mobiles make my life so much easier but you are right people (especially young teenagers) are addicted to their phones. Mind you in saying that I would be lost without mine as it has EVERYTHING on there from passwords to reminders and my calendar. Yeah it's all available on the Mac/PC but having this information at my finger tips saves me a lot of time.

        I for one am very aware of the mobile usage issue and I will be drumming it into my kids that socialising with their friends is more important than discussing things on social media. I know that is going to be very difficult, considering I find myself scrolling aimlessly and wasting time, but as long as I/we keep reminding ourselves of the issue that will help.

        Getting back to the subject of the post, even a call is not satisfactory. The notification needs to be in writing so for you it would be via the post but for most people (including @hongas I think from reading most of his comments) it would be via email and SMS if that is considered written?!? I think SMS is ok if the tenant responds that the time/day is suitable but other than that it's not legally accepted.

      • 

        endotherm on 14/06/2016 - 18:35

        @billybob1978: I agree with your sentiments. The thing is, entering a tennants home, with an expectation of free and uninterrupted use of the property, is permitted under law in certain circumstances where the corresponding law has been complied with. Reading the appropriate legislation for that state (WA), it does not allow it unless the recipient gives their consent first. Privacy is paramount.

        Most people aren't aware of their legal requirements and obligations. They are however ready to drop whatever they are doing to attend to their phone and put all their trust into records stored on it. For most, it would turn to crap once they lose their phone or it breaks, and they lose everything. At least my emails are stored on multiple computers and tablets that I own, on my backups, on my ISP, saved to the cloud etc. and I can print them out easily if I need a hard copy.

        I'd prefer my surgeon to be concentrating on his job and not dropping everything to check Twitter. He can read his messages later on when it suits him. And I'd hate for an authorisation for brain surgery or castration to be left to a text message — I'd want whoever is performing such critical procedures to have a piece of paper with a witnessed signature in their hot little hands before proceeding!

      • 

        bobwokeup on 14/06/2016 - 19:24

        @endotherm: yeah entering the house like that is unreasonable given OP just moved in but I'm a bit confused how he can move in while on holidays?!?

        The thing is he would have to go to court and he only just moved in so if he wants to start off like that, that's his choice. They just have to have a discussion and explain that legally they have to have his consent first befor entering so next time please wait until you hear back from me.

        Yeah I've got everything stored online as well so if I did lose my phone it's not the end of the world, although it would be for a lot as you pointed out.

        I'm sure you were joking about the surgeons but nevertheless no one is allowed phones in the operating room anyway. The paperwork in hospitals is actually ridiculous I just had a very minor op the other week and I was gobsmacked as to how many forms the nurse went through with me. Given its 2016 and not 1996 you would think the important ones were paper and the rest on the computer but not in WA haha the Wait Away state.

• 

  ezarc on 13/06/2016 - 16:05

  I don't know but if your prefer written notice just ask them for paper mail instead or as well as.

• 

  Davros on 13/06/2016 - 16:07

  Regardless of what you or people on an anonymous forum say, what does the legislation say?
  Thats all that matters.

  Come back and tell us the answer when YOU have done your own research

• 

  BigTed on 13/06/2016 - 16:28

  +1

  My 2c - check your lease and any other documents you signed at the time of entering into the lease to see if you consented to receive notices by text (or other electronic format).

• 

  Geewhizz on 13/06/2016 - 16:54

  I think you'll find a text message IS in writing. Check with the tennancies authority in your state.

• 

  meggowaffle on 13/06/2016 - 18:57

  +1

  Our current agent sends out inspection notices via mail, email and SMS - likely to avoid situations such as this. However, had she not mentioned in her email that notice had also been sent via SMS I wouldn't have been aware as neither my husband nor myself received an SMS about it. They tried sending one to me after I alerted them to this and I received it, so I'm not sure if they entered the number incorrectly the first time or if the computer program they were using malfunctioned. I had previously received SMSs from them, so I know they have the correct number on file.

  Considering the current rental market in Perth, as long as you're clean, aren't operating a meth lab, and pay your bills on time I can't imagine you have anything to worry about. Try politely asking them to confirm they sent it to the correct number or perhaps suggest the best way to contact you is via email (or whatever you prefer). Worst case scenario if they issue you a breach notice you can send one right back to them for failing to give proper notice (assuming you didn't receive the SMS). In any case, be sure to document your correspondence with the agency in writing.

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  hongas on 13/06/2016 - 22:57

  Thank you for your advice.

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  Pumpkin_rrr on 14/06/2016 - 07:31

  How long have you lived in the new place?

  When you signed the lease, did they tell you there's going to be a routine inspection, say every 3/4/5/6 months?

  If you have not lived there for that minimum period, ypu probably can object.

  What mode of communication you prefer? Sounds like paper? Then where should it be delivered to? Mailbox or office or under door?

• 

  bobwokeup on 14/06/2016 - 10:29

  As a private landlord myself in Perth you have to give the tenants 7 days notice and there is a time restriction (I.e it can't be late at night unless the tenant agrees). I'm not sure if the tenant needs to accept the time/day but I like to work with the tenants so that both parties are happy. I usually sms the tenant as most prefer that method and I hate mailing things that is old school & a waste of paper. Also as of recent, if it is marked on the rental agreement I can legally email any notifications. At the end of the day everything is always about negotiations as even if you go to court (yep had to last month) the first option is to come to a mutual agreement, unless the landlord has done something illegally of course and then the courts make a decision.

  Landlords can only do 1 inspection every 3 months. If it was around that time and you didn't notify them that you would be overseas then I think they are within their rights. However I too would say sorry I didn't get the sms and ask if they can come back the next day (it shouldn't really take any longer to get the place up to standard). Not sure if they can legally sms but it's not worth going to court over (trust me it sucks for both parties) or starting off on the wrong foot. So yeah once again it's all about coming to a mutual agreement. Hope this helps.

• 

  lainey13 on 14/06/2016 - 11:00

  +1

  My stupid arse agent sent an email as notice, but we never received it despite receiving all other emails just fine. She let herself in when we weren't there and then complained we had 'too many boxes'. I asked her what on earth she was doing entering without notice and she said she sent an email. We replied we would have responded had there actually been an email and she goes 'nobody replies to those emails anyway so I assumed you got it'. Stupid idiot probably still sent the original messy photos to the landlord, although if we rent a house there's absolutely no law that says we can't fill up the frigging place with boxes if we wanted to.

  tl;dr: Real estate agents are twats and are very happy to do the laziest quickest thing possible.

  • 

    bobwokeup on 14/06/2016 - 11:54

    I've never been a real estate agent but I'd like to see you do what they do and not do things the easiest most efficient way, without getting complaints from tenants. I too don't hear back from tenants about rent, inspections, etc and it is very frustrating.

    Although I do agree that to say about about boxes is nitpicking.

    I would email her and say next time wait (or call to see if we received the email) for our confirmation before doing a rental inspection.

  • 

    Speckled Jim on 15/06/2016 - 19:58

    +3

    Call me thick, but can't they enable a Return Receipt on the email? I recall being able to do that years ago. When the email was viewed, I'd get a notification. If no longer possible, 1. why not? and 2. how can email or SMS be relied upon when mail servers and telcos are down so often?

    Another thing. When we were renting, we'd get a written letter signed by the Property Manager. An SMS from an agent is likely to be automated. Will it include the sender's name? Will it even have a return number?

    Real estate agents are twats and are very happy to do the laziest quickest thing possible.

    Yep. Google a random address near you. If the property was ever for lease, I guarantee there will be information and photos online. It's a degradation of security for current occupants — just because staff don't follow up.
    It even extends to rent collection. IIRC, every state requires the provision of a method to pay your rent without financial penalty. Always eager to offload whatever responsibility they can get away with (those parasitic, third-party card schemes) I found most irritating. I declined repeated offers to sign up.

    What did our agent do in response? Advised us they were changing banks, and therefore accounts. So they tried to coerce me into getting a rent card that features ongoing fees. They refused to give me their new bank account number "for security reasons". But as I didn't want the life-changing convenience (lol) of their payment card option, they wanted my account number and direct-debit authority for rent payments.

    Sure. When you can guarantee that your client database can't be hacked, sold or misappropriated by a rogue staff member, and I have that in writing. If you expect payments from clients, you give them a business account number. The risk is on you — the business — as that's the price of doing business.
    Until then, I'll continue to pay rent into your "old" account. After all, that's what you gave me when I signed the lease. That's after specifically asking if we could pay rent directly into their account. So what changed in three years?
    Outmanoeuvred, they quickly added that we could pay in person or by mailing them a cheque.

    This digital disruption will be their undoing — their new found convenience will result in fewer staff being needed. I'll not shed a tear at this poetic justice.

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  [Deactivated] on 14/06/2016 - 12:03

  it's post 2000, now lets thing about the technological advances in forms of communication. i'd be more suprised if they were still sending forms via snail mail

• 

  goodcopbadcop on 15/06/2016 - 05:28

  +1

  Another source of information comes from the WA Dept Commerce, 2015

  https://www.commerce.wa.gov.au/consumer-protection/rent-insp…

  Rent inspections

  This page is for: Home buyer / ownerLandlord / lessorTenant
  The lessor has the right to carry out routine inspections on the property no more than four times a year.

  Inspections must be at a reasonable hour and you should receive between seven and 14 days' notice.
  The lessor must attempt to negotiate a day and time that does not unduly inconvenience you before sending you the notice.
  The notice should specify the day of the entry and whether the entry will be before or after 12 noon.
  In the case of carrying out or inspecting necessary repairs, 72 hours’ written notice is required.
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