Hello,
My girlfriend is currently a victim of workplace bullying by a colleague, and attempts to complain without evidence have failed.
We are looking for a discreet voice recorder, that is small and reliable. Price isn't too much of an issue since this is affecting her so much. Something shaped as a pen would be ideal, as she works in a job that walks around a lot.
If anyone has any recommendations I would appreciate them so much.
Thanks!
not sure why you were downvoted…
i believe you are referring to SURVEILLANCE DEVICES act though
and a secret recording device is a surveillance device.
Yes, I was, my bad.
How important is the job? This could be years of stress on both her and you. Is it an industry that's easy to jump ship, or no?
Had a similar problem in the family a while ago,
We got a heap of evidence on our camera pen and voice recorder, however we were unable to use it as you cant record someone without their permission on private land
You can use it as evidence to show a higher manager of the conduct. But from a legal stand point, you cant take them to court and use it as evidence. So yeah before you go down this path, be clear on what you want to achieve and if this is going to achieve the correct outcome, because you cant go back after they know you have it in for them.
Just use your phone? Put it in a top pocket or worse case use headphones with a mic build in. No one would be the wiser that you were recording. This isn't a spy movie
Girlfriend isn't the most tech savvy, just wanted something that could be turned on at the start of the day and left on. As for listening to it and stuff like that I was going to do that manually.
I logged on to reply to this and I never log on.
This is important. If your wife records a colleague or supervisor/boss, it could lead to her losing her job. If she is unfairly dismissed and then reveals to people that she has recorded them, it could lead to the Fair Work Commission refusing compensation or reinstatement for your wife even if she was unfairly treated and even if she was bullied. This has happened. There is case law on it. The ruling was that the employee ho recorded her boss and colleagues had destroyed the trust of the employment relationship. Whether you agree with this or not, it is the current law. Regardless of whether it seems fair or not, it is the current law.
May I suggest instead that your wife keep a diary. As soon as anything happens, write it down. Include the date and time. Have her email it to herself (from her private email). Diaries are great evidence. Recordings are the kind of thing that can get you in a lot of trouble.
Also consider what you want from this. Would it just be easier and simpler for your wife to find a new job? Remember that the Fair Work bullying jurisdiction cannot award money. It can only give orders about the actions of parties (and only where there is a continuing risk to health and safety so if your wife quits, she can't use the bullying jurisdiction). Very very few orders have been made. Consider if you're aiming for psychological injury/workers compensation. The same feeling about recordings applies there but less so. But workers comp is complex and awful so consider carefully.
This is not legal advice. But I want to let you know that recording things is a terrible idea and will likely backfire on your wife, because of the current law.
Thanks for that, been looking at the Surveillance Act myself for Victoria.
I think the main purpose isn't litigation against her immediate superior, rather it's trying to show Human Resources what's really going on and getting a complaint started, because without it, it might be her word against theirs type of thing, or bringing it to her boss' boss to show.
Either her HR dept will be reasonable and want do the right thing. In that case, her written diaries will be enough. Alternatively, her HR dept will be unreasonable and vindictive. In that case, they will use her recordings to really make life unpleasant for her.
Still not legal advice but I can't stress enough how much of a bad idea secret recordings are, and that's not even going into the illegality under the surveillance devices act.
Please reconsider, for your wife's sake.
the employee ho recorded her boss
Hey there's no need to talk like that!
"As a general rule, express or implied consent of all parties is required before a meeting or conversation is recorded, with such permission being obtained prior to the commencement of any meeting or conversation."
http://workplaceinfo.com.au/hr-management/privacy-and-survei…
"In South Australia Section 4 of the Listening and Surveillance Devices Act (SA) 1972 provides that:
'a person must not intentionally use any listening device to overhear, record, monitor or listen to any private conversation, whether or not the person is a party to the conversation, without the consent, expressed or implied, of the parties to that conversation'
The maximum penalty for breaching this provision is a $10,000.00 fine or two years’ imprisonment."
https://www.andersons.com.au/lawtalk/2015/october/secretly-r…
There is a clause re: 'lawful interests' (which includes workplace bullying) - but I'd still say don't do it.
http://www.insidehr.com.au/what-to-do-about-secret-recording…
Any employee worth their salt in their chosen profession can get a job somewhere else. There is no point of staying at the same company for years if they hate it or their colleagues.
We see so much effort spent on teaching school children not to bully and how to deal with it. And there are ads on TV speaking out against bullying and violence and yet when it comes to a situation like this the best advice seems to be to leave and let the perpetrator get away with it.
I can understand why some people would want to go to places like
http://www.ozspy.com.au/
or
http://spycity.com.au/
simply so that they can expose the truth.
Distancing yourself from any confrontational situation isn't a bad thing to do imo.
Safe to assume that the co-worker has already been told that what he's doing isn't exactly appreciated, so what next? Either:
A) fight him
B) get away from the situation
C) dob on him and hope his superiors take him down a peg the proper way.
Now as mature adults we should know not to harass or bully in the first place, and should realise that what you're doing is not ok. Unfortunately some people just don't realise that.
or
D) expose the truth without judgement or expectation. And fully accept that you may need to leave shortly after. By staying silent we encourage people like that to continue their harassment.
I would never advocate getting into confrontation and if the issue escalated then just leave.
Personally if it were me I'd wait until the right time and pass the evidence on to the relevant people. If I didn't get the right response I'd immediately resign (hopefully with another job already on offer).
There are 'other' options, but not something some who is
not the most tech savvy
could do. Face it; if your playing the normal route, you get a lot of benefits, but there's also downsides, and this is one of them.
All moves are risky here.
You can record everything you want, but you won't be able to use it to convince anyone inside the system.
To me thats still worth it, just so you can see for your self that your not crazy.
You can get pens that record video as well, but like every other option I have, the battery life is going to be a problem. They tend to record for 2-4 hours max, and you just know, the battery will cop out on you as soon as something good happens.
Good luck anyway, and whatever option you choose, make sure to report back how it goes! Even something short like "she quit and got another job"
Hi, Take a fool's advice and tell your friend to look for another job or leave. I had a stress claimed approved against a work place bully on the advice from HR! As they were sick of this person continuing to do this to people and they didn't want me to leave. 3 1/2 years later, lawyers,alianated from all my other CO workers as they didn't want to get involved and then have the crap come there way, they kept her on for only reasons they know, I was paid small amount of money to go away, and ever since I have been on the disability pension with post traumatic stress disorder, depression, and major anxiety problems. The whole situation ruined my life and my future working life. So it's not worth it, the bully knows all the tricks, I had written evidence of everything she said,did to me and for what. Leave it seriously is not worth it. I have never commented on any topic on here but I couldn't let this go without telling you my story. I wish your friend all the best.
I am so sorry to hear what happened to you. One would hope that there is adequate recourse to bullying in our society, and it is a disappointment to hear cases where bullies got away scot-free and the victims suffered/continue to suffer even more from the bullying and its ramifications. The bullies will feel emboldened to bully others even more.
Thanks bluesky, and thats exactly what happened. I have heard that she has done it another worker, and will continue too as for some reason they allow her to get away with it. She has worked then for over 22 years, first job out of school. So she thinks the place will close without her. She has taken them to court on an unrelated matter, so They know what a bitch she is.
What if she had a visible recorder on her desk that she activated every time she is spoken to by the bully involved, simultaneously advising him/her that she's recording the conversation so there will be no misunderstandings later.
At the very least it would probably cause the other party to moderate their manner.
Don't think this will work because the bully can always make it clear s/he disagrees to be recorded.
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Hi Gelf54,
The bully has full control of the situation, you have to write a letter to HR about whats happenibg. They give the bully a copy of said letter, you receive nothing from what/if the bully teply is. They dictate to the moderator what THEY want, its a joke, her rewuedt was that I dont keep anyone notrs on her? Also wben I could see nothing eas going to be achieved by this, I had to then think of my own health, I had to sign 8 pages of documents dsying I wouldn't apply for a job that this company was affiliated with! Remember I'm the victim here, I also had to sign a document that I wouldn't take her to court, civil court or any court for what she had done to me. The company was piss weak when it came to the crunch, that's why I say, take a fools advice and leave, as that's what I was going to do, but The company said no she has to be stopped. Everyone I spoke to was amazed I had a stress claim approved as they just dont do that.Really weigh up what's more Important… your job or your future state of mind and life in general. Seriously
Regards
3lions
The reason people are suggesting to leave is because the laws are rather weak when it comes to bullying and harrasment. In a lot of cases if you stay on and report it to HR you may end up winning the battle but you will lose the war. Working there may never be the same again (unlikey the perperprator will be moved on) and any compenstation awarded will likley fall far short of making up for all the pain and suffering. Its best to move on and get another job. Then later on once in your new job you may be able to engauge a lawyer to claim for compsensation using a good dairy with detailed entries about the events.
I was subject to a lot of harrasment in my workplace from new comers. Leaving was not an option as I would be unlikely to find a job nearly as good. In the end confronting the people one on one in a somewhat threatening mannor solved the problem. Bulleys are weak cowards and hate it when people stand up (and over) them. It worth a shot before quiting. You have to do this personally as geting other people to speak with them will only make it worse.
Totally agree Jimbo, nothing will ever happen to the bully. So they just continue on doing it. I see a physcologist as a result and they say, its actually nothing to do with you, its all about them and their sad worthless lives and usually jealously. My thoughts are with you, as unfortunately I know exactly how you feel
Take care Jimbo,
Cheers
3lions
Be careful, recording people without their permission may be a violation of the Privacy Act.