eBay Discounts Like CLICK 20. Invoiced Value?

GLO on 04/06/2016 - 17:49

Hi,

I am curious to see what others think about this.

We know that everyone appreciates the 20% discount off selected retailers (who receive the full listed ticket price)

However I have 2 questions.

  1. Using a $5000 item as an example the CLICK20 code will save you $1000. The retailer receives the full $5000.

And your invoice shows $5000 less $1000 Ebay Voucher amount. Balance is $4000.

2.If the item fails, is the retailer going to supply the equivalent goods, or if no longer available what do they do? Refund you only $4000 to go out and buy the same $5000 item from another retailer?

Also, given some credit cards provide an extended warranty, would the voucher complicate matters if extended warranty via the credit card supplier was required?

General Discussion

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Comments

  • plmko on 04/06/2016 - 17:57
    +5

    Depending on the retailer, they refund you the $5000 because their internal tax invoice (not paypal) do not show the voucher (at least from my experience from Dick Smith, GG, Teds).

    So yes, you could abuse it or claim more TRS than you're entitled to. But as always don't be a dick and game the system.

    • JSQUARED on 04/06/2016 - 18:47

      Not sure how much things have changed for all these stores, but from my experience back in October with Dick Smith my invoice/receipt showed the discounted amount and not the amount that they received.

      • hashtagbargain on 04/06/2016 - 22:39

        Well I just bought something off of todays sale and my receipt has the full value, with no mention of the coupon.

  • RockyRaccoon on 04/06/2016 - 18:09
    +5

    claim more TRS than you're entitled to

    If you get "cash back" you dont get cash back less GST. Likewise here. The retailer will pay the 10% GST on the price they charge. So you are entitled to get a refund on the GST that they paid which is 10% of the invoiced price, doing so doesnt make you a "dick"

      • Nightshade on 04/06/2016 - 21:37
        +3

        See, you're assuming that eBay isn't making up the difference themselves, so that the amount that the retailer receives is the original $5000. I made a purchase several months ago from TGG - the invoice they sent me showed the original price, not the discounted price I paid.

        • plmko on 04/06/2016 - 22:37

          No, the retailer does not receive the entire payment, what proof do you have that they do?

          http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/companies/jb-hifi-c…

          They (Dick Smith) did a $400,000 deal with eBay

          Ebay don't foot the bill.

          And Ebay also don't pay the GST, they are incorporated in Switzerland, so their fees aren't reported.

        • Nightshade on 05/06/2016 - 00:52

          @plmko: …My invoice is the proof. Did you read my second sentence?

          Anyway, what proof do you have that the retailer doesn't receive the entire payment? (See, two can play at that game)

        • plmko on 05/06/2016 - 00:54

          @Nightshade:

          Did you not read my comment, Ebay does deals, in fact the retailer is paying Ebay. Clearly you aren't playing the same game, because I've provided something and you haven't.

        • Nightshade on 05/06/2016 - 01:15
          +2

          @plmko: Yes, you provided something. The problem is that you didn't provide anything useful.

          Your link doesn't specify what sort of deal was struck, so it's completely useless.

          I shall lay this out for you:

          Either The Good Guys lied on their tax invoice , and didn't pay the GST they said they did, or they were paid the full amount. As all the sources I've read indicate that you have to provide an accurate tax invoice, I'd say the former is unlikely for a company like TGG, which leaves the second option.

      • sky blu on 04/06/2016 - 22:11

        Why the insult? One claims per issued invoice. Do you think you can just tell the TRS you paid less than the invoiced amount, and so "ethically" they should refund you less?

        • plmko on 04/06/2016 - 22:39

          What insult, read carefully.

          Do you think you can just tell the TRS you paid less than the invoiced amount, and so "ethically" they should refund you less?

          So you're saying when the Paypal invoice shows the true after discount amount but you use the incorrect retailer invoice, fully well knowing your bank account was only debited the lower amount, there is no ethical consideration, none?

          C'mon it's not the end of the world villain type stuff, but it's clearly an ethical thing.

        • sky blu on 04/06/2016 - 22:56

          It's a good example in Ethics, but not necessarily practical in the real world. One can only claim per issued invoice. If the invoice shows the full amount then GST is incorrect in the first place. It isn't ethically wrong for the claimant to get the full 10%.

        • plmko on 05/06/2016 - 00:20

          @sky blu:

          It isn't ethically wrong for the claimant to get the full 10%.

          Correct, so you should be using the Paypal invoice to make the full claim as that is what you really paid.

          In reality you can use what you wish, if you want more cash back, so be it. But that isn't what I'm discussing here.

        • dazweeja on 06/06/2016 - 15:36

          @plmko:

          PayPal doesn't issue tax invoices for purchases. A tax invoice must have clear information that "the document is intended to be a tax invoice". This usually involves printing the words "Tax invoice" at the top of the document. That's the law and it's very simple.

          A PayPal email just indicates receipt of payment, nothing more. The retailer issues the tax invoice and this is the only document that counts for TRS purposes.

      • RockyRaccoon on 04/06/2016 - 23:52

        I wasnt calling you a dick so please dont call me one. You have no idea who I am, (I could be female or transgender!!) as well as not knowing how these things work.

        If you go to claim the TRS they will go on what is on the invoice. Its simple!

        eg Traveller -Hello I paid more than whats on the invoice, can I claim more GST back?
        TRS Staff - sorry all we go on is whats on the invoice, so thats what you will be paid.

        or Traveller -Hello I paid less than whats on the invoice, can I claim less GST back?
        TRS Staff - sorry all we go on is whats on the invoice, so thats what you will be paid. (or are you telling us the invoice is incorrect - so if thats the case we cant pay you anything)

        So people just claiming back the GST based on the invoice are just following the system as defined.

        This is a place to share opinions, people can read yours and read mine, then they can decide whats right for them. In doing so is not being a "dick" as you claim.

        • plmko on 05/06/2016 - 00:12
          -4

          Gosh calm down, people really don't read on the internet do they…

          My comment was directed at OP, and you just budded in by quoting me. No need to be overly sensitive on the internet boohoo

          Also no need to be condescending by giving me a crash course on claiming TRS, as mentioned above I'm very quite aware of what a Tax invoice does. Yes you can 100% claim what you have on an invoice, but if you very know which one you really paid as in the context of OP, you are saying you 100% in the right to claim what you aren't entitled to

          The TRS defines the claim by: allows you to claim a refund of the goods and services tax (GST)

          Since you did not pay the GST portion from the 20% discount, nor did the retailer, there isn't GST credits on the full $5000. Your logic says that if you walked down to the counter and claimed the full amount on $5000 you have done nothing wrong.

          By the same logic, you've just +1 on every OzB thread about the ethics behind purposely going down to Woolies and buying price error items so you can get it free rinse'n repeat, all because you're just "following the system as defined".

          No I'm not saying you are a bad person by all means, I'm simply telling people not to abuse what's clearly inadequate system for retailers to reconcile the difference between the paypal invoice and their internal system.

        • retiredfeline on 05/06/2016 - 00:31
          +1

          @plmko: Why should there be any problem, ethical or bookkeeping? You are assuming that the retailer records the discounted price and pays the discounted GST to the ATO. But suppose the retailer isn't keeping two sets of books (and they shouldn't) and the invoice you got is what will be used to calculate the GST they owe the ATO.

          In this situation the retailer pays the GST on the full amount, you have paid the GST on the discounted price which is less. The ATO is getting the full GST. Ergo someone, either the retailer or eBay has paid the difference in GST for you. So if you take the goods overseas you are getting a bit more out the retailer or eBay and nobody has committed any wrongdoing.

          And this is exactly what RockyRaccoon was saying.

          The other situation, where the retailer invoices the discounted amount is uninteresting. It's just as if the retailer took a marker to the price tag and slashed X% off. They collect less for the sale and they also collect less GST.

          I'm not considering refunds, etc.

        • plmko on 05/06/2016 - 00:58
          -1

          the retailer records the discounted price and pays the discounted GST to the ATO

          Because that's exactly what they do.

          What alternative is there, GST on the full price? Or the discount paid to Ebay? The latter we very well know Ebay services isn't a GST supply, they are incorporated in Switzerland.

        • retiredfeline on 05/06/2016 - 01:18
          +2

          @plmko: This would be a financial crime because the invoice stating the full price, the legal document that the customer gets, doesn't match up with what they would claim they owe the ATO. If that's what you believe they do, then feel free, but in this case the buyer has no responsibility for this.

          If the invoice states the discounted amount, there is no problem, it's like slashing the price on the price sticker and the retailer wears any loss for selling at a discount.

        • RockyRaccoon on 05/06/2016 - 08:46
          +1

          @plmko: Then the real issue here is that the retailer hasn't given a correct invoice that reflects the GST paid. Apart from TRS claims. businesses who bought under this eBay deal would also misclaim GST credits.

          As for eBay not paying the GST and the "misreporting" of the GST collected thats an issue for our government to handle, not us you or the dicks who use it. Simple

          Also the paypal invoice that you suggest above that should be used, isnt a tax invoice There is no GST line on the paypal invoice

          eg one of mine

          Description Unit price Qty Amount
          NEW Seagate 2857196 4TB Personal Cloud Storage
          Item number 121965597 $239.00 AUD 1 $239.00 AUD

          Shipping and handling $0.00 AUD
          Insurance - not offered ——
          Other discounts -$47.80 AUD
          Total $191.20 AUD
          Payment $191.20 AUD
          This charge will appear on your credit card statement as "PAYPAL *THEGOODGUYS"
          Payment sent to [email protected]

          Again your advice is just going to cause issues for anyone claiming the refund as these are not valid GST invoices. Viz there is nothing on that invoice to indicate the GST you have paid.

          To claim TRS the relevant part says

          you have an original tax invoice for the goods

          See here (as the ATO website was down when I wrote this) for what is a TAX invoice

          http://www.flinders.edu.au/finance/tax-information/gst-infor…

          As for calming down, I am and have been quite calm, (or do you require an uploaded blood test reading - Now for clarity I am joking with that statement and jokingly again, do you require a photo of me smiling to prove that - less 10% of course 😀)

          Its an internet discussion you started, that we are just putting in our 10% claim on the right for an opinion😀

        • sky blu on 05/06/2016 - 13:41
          +1

          @RockyRaccoon: so it goes all the way back to the beginning that PAYPAL INVOICE CANNOT BE USED, because IT DOES NOT SHOW GST. I knew this but the way plmko was so adamant makes me feel there could be cases where PayPal invoice does show GST. Again, as I've said above, it's entirely Ethics. Zero practicality.

        • retiredfeline on 05/06/2016 - 13:48
          +2

          @sky blu: If any ethics are involved they would be of the retailer/eBay, not the buyer. If the invoice states so much GST, that's what they have to remit to the ATO. You are perfectly justified to claim it on TRS.

        • sky blu on 05/06/2016 - 13:51

          @plmko: No that is NOT exactly what they do.

          Read below for a real life PRACTICAL experience from an ebay business partaking in the promotion.

          Legally customers were required to be provided with full price invoice as that's the amount he was paid (this was told to him by eBay as conditions of taking part in promotion)

          So legally, full price invoice, and ethically, nothing wrong in getting the full 10% tourist refund.

  • GLO on 04/06/2016 - 19:00

    Thanks Guys,

    No chance of TRS abuse here.

    The item is over 55kg and over 6ft wide.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2016 - 19:12
      +10

      Bought yourself a German wife?

      • GLO on 04/06/2016 - 19:19
        +1

        wouldnt that equate to husband abuse then!

      • whooah1979 on 04/06/2016 - 20:09

        The item is over 55kg and over 6ft wide.

        that would be all skin and bone.

        edit
        sorry. didn't notice the wide part.

  • Bonsaichop on 04/06/2016 - 21:18
    +1

    Just so you know, that 20% discount is covered by the retailer. So if you use the coupon code, the retailer takes the 20% hit.

    A friend of ours was offered to partake in one of these major discounts through eBay, a very interesting read.

    • GLO on 04/06/2016 - 21:52

      really?

      Why would a retailer give a 20% discount and upto 11% in fees

      they may as well do a Dick Smith then.

      I thought Ebay takes the hit (maybe not the whole 20% but since the invoice does show the full ticket price) given the increased sales volume and it keeps people shopping on Ebay for other non- Coupon pricing.

      • taoz on 04/06/2016 - 23:57

        Ebay do not take the hit.

    • sky blu on 04/06/2016 - 22:13
      +4

      Interesting. Please share details of your friend's story.

    • RockyRaccoon on 04/06/2016 - 23:56

      If the retailer takes the 20% hit, then why do that thru eBay. The retailer can discount the product by 20% themselves. EBay most likely are covering at least part of the rebate. How much we wont know

      • sky blu on 05/06/2016 - 00:34
        +1

        Maybe the retailers 'gain' on a deal with eBay? E.g. free/ heavily discounted fees for their ebay stores

    • FutureTech on 05/06/2016 - 16:50

      Retailer Jack up price by 20% before sale begins. They don't take any hit.

      • Bonsaichop on 05/06/2016 - 20:06

        Nope, part of the rules were you were not allowed to alter the price of your items to counteract the increase.

        I don't want to really want to go into specifics as the offer may have been tailored for them, but they were targeting a specific type of seller (say, collectables) and a certain size of business.

        The big points to come out of it were you would take the hit, and you couldn't inflate your prices to adjust for it. They would do all the marketing for it and you had no control on how it was marketed or if you were marketed at all.

  • jimbobaus on 05/06/2016 - 00:49
    +7

    My uncles business took part in a tech related eBay coupon deal last year.

    The way it worked for him was :
    He listed item at full price.
    eBay charged fees on full price.
    Customer used coupon and got 20% off

    He could only list items in stock (no pre or back orders)

    eBay credited his paypal account with 10% (half the discount)
    PayPal credit his account with 10% (half the discount)
    PayPal covered half as it was a requirement of the coupon code they offered that PayPal must be used for payment.

    When customers paid using PayPal his account was credited the discounted amount (minus the 20%)
    He got the balance at end of the offer (took about 2 weeks)

    Legally customers were required to be provided with full price invoice as that's the amount he was paid (this was told to him
    By eBay as conditions of taking part in promotion)

    • FutureTech on 05/06/2016 - 16:55

      Wouldn't he also need to supply invoice to eBay and PayPal for the respective 10% that they paid him? Otherwise the two company will have a hard time claiming those expenses at tax time.

  • GaryG on 05/06/2016 - 18:29
    +1

    Just looking at recent invoices I have from The Good Guys and another from Myer both of which involved purchases with eBay discounts (2 different promotions) and both have the full amount on the invoice and no other amount.

    • mrdevil on 06/06/2016 - 00:06

      Yep, can confirm this too - purchased an iPad for work when The Good Guys had one of these promos … the emails etc from eBay and PayPal showed the discount, but the paperwork / invoice from The Good Guys themselves only showed the full amount in the invoice, and the full amount as being paid (no mentions of any discount, or details of the promo).

  • Japius on 06/06/2016 - 07:52

    I had to return an item to a retailer I purchased in one of these sales and the retailer refunded me the full amount, I turned a profit on that one…unintentionally, they told me they cant do a refund to eBay and they'd been paid the full amount as far as their system was concerned so thats what gets refunded

  • ca4cpa on 06/06/2016 - 11:49

    Just to clear the confusion, discount is provided by EBAY not by Goodguys.

    Ebay charge higher % fees to all retailer who like to join in the group where they offer the discount.

    So if you buy something worth $1000 from TGG; TGG will get ($1000-commission payable by Ebay+Paypal); In this case their income is$1000 inc GST; expense is commission paid to EBAY + PAYPAL which is GST Free anyway.

    Ebay put this offers to attract the customer - just like other company like UBER is doing. If you use UBER for first couple of rides, you do not pay UBER but UBER pays driver the required amount.

    Hope this makes it clear.

  • addict on 11/06/2016 - 03:21

    Here is my experience….

    Had a recent issue that I had to get escalated to Paypal and I was given a refund.

    Paypal automatically returned 20% to Ebay, so it sounds like its Ebay thats paying for it, and the order is linked.

    So if the retailer processed a proper return through paypal, linked to the original order, then I would suspect you would not get the 20% back.

    Surprised that some are saying they do get it. Perhaps though if you return in a B&M store with the same retailer where they dont have access to Paypal, they will just give you the full money back. But if thats the case I would assume the retailer looses out on the Ebay fees.

    Cheers!

  • foxmulder on 17/06/2016 - 22:22

    If the retailer needs to refund I'm pretty sure via original payment which you only get refunded whatever value you pay for it. The discount reversed.

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