Why Does Centrelink Reward Laziness?

Since I turned 22 a few days ago, I became eligible for youth allowance (YA). I work part time at two local pools, averaging about 10 hours a week. I crunched the numbers to see what the maximum hours of work I could do before my payments would get cut and lo and behold - I found that Centrelink rewards laziness by not enticing YA recipients to work more lest they lose their payments! For example, if I worked no more than 7.8 extra hours a week I would be able to get about $44 a week on YA (on top of my usual hours), but the moment I exceeded 7.8 extra hours I'd lose money - it would take me two hours to make $16 (2 hours of work @ $30/h versus $44 for free, doing nothing). Of course, during the schools LTS season I would gladly work 35 hour weeks and forgo the YA, but there's seriously no incentive for anyone to do more than the bare minimum unless there's seriously good hours on offer. I'm aware there's a load of codswallop that is the income bank, but that only really rewards seasonal workers, not people that work regular jobs in between full time study. It's otherwise useless for someone that is employed most weeks of the year.

My parents built up their wealth by working hard. Before I turned 22 I paid tax (not a great amount, but still got taxed). I used to think claiming any government benefits was shameful, but now I feel that legitimate taxpayers not claiming what they're entitled to is just plain wrong. Why let real dole bludgers take a slice of the pie when those that contributed won't or can't?

Why is it that Centrelink encourages laziness and not hard work? I find it slightly ridiculous this system can even exist.

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        • +1

          Because the system is flawed and I'm eligible for it. It's a refund for the heavy taxes my parents pay.

        • @niggard: Because they don't use roads, hospitals, parks, water fountains, police, fire department or centrelink?

        • @nikkirose: if you saw money on the ground wouldn't you pick it up ? or would you take it to the police station as you know someone has lost it ?

          (i worked in a country where 99% of people said take it to the police station or leave it on the ground - just for the anecdote)

        • @juki: I take it to a police station, because if no one claims it within 3 months they give it back to me and it is mine fair and square.

        • -2

          @nikkirose: THEY PAY THEIR TAXES ffs! What is wrong with you? The only things they don't use is the fire department and Centrelink, we were never eligible for FTB. Unfortunately now Medicare has been rolled into one with Centrelink so even if you're there for Medicare it feels bad walking into Centrelink, especially if others see you.

  • +2

    More rather limiting your capacity to earn more. If you could earn more and exceed any YA payments wouldn't you rather do that than limit yourself to the maximum allowable income just to get a measley few dollars from centrelink?

    • -1

      In the past I worked 25 hour weeks and my study fell by the wayside. I spent more time working than studying. I think I will use this extra time to actually study and not rely on good luck to get good grades.

      • +4

        The Pakistani at 7/11 is probably clocking in 50hrs, ubering on the side, studying post grad and feeding a family without centrelink, playing cricket on sunday and getting the grades.

        Maybe centrelink does instill some laziness afterall?

        • +5

          @niggard: likely in breach of their visas and getting paid cash in hand but they are doing jobs and hours us aussies snuff at and dont want to do. So Australia isn't really missing out, we have everything to gain.

        • @niggard: mate, you don't even want to work if you can get the money for free, they aren't taking your work.

        • +2

          @captobvious: ?! some people on this forum really have a problem with other nationalities, weird when statistics show most of us probably have grandparents from overseas or reproduce with someone who does…

          for those (or the one) saying taking jobs away from aussies paid under the table, it's possibly an australian making a quick buck doing so too, papers also have articles with scams of guys not getting paid.

          honesty isn't about nationality

        • @juki: I travelled Australia as a fruitpicker for a while. I am glad we import labour, otherwise we would have no food on our tables or doctors in rural areas for one. We have a campaign currently running in Ireland (my FB friend sent me the flyer) Where we will pay relocation costs and 2 years rent for any skilled carpenters, electricians, bricklayers and plumbers. So if we stop the immigrants, we got no dunnies, lights or houses. If we unlocked the refugee islands, imagine how much we could save in imported Irish labour.

  • I work 48 hours a fortnight and have two young children. I earn $960 a fortnight but apparently that is enough to raise my children, pay rent and all my other bills because I just got rejected from centrelink for any kind of assistance and no, I don't get child support either.

    • +1

      Poor you, why not child benefit? It doesn't sound like you earn enough…

      • Honestly, I don't know.

        I have asked for a review and it has been denied.

        When I first split from my husband I found myself on Centrelink. I then participated in the 'work for the dole' scheme at my local salvos. I worked hard and went far beyond the hours that I 'had' to do. I ended up becoming a paid member of staff and then 2IC. I have since moved on from that job and ten months ago, exited fully (and proudly) from Centrelink.

        I received no benefit then as I was awaiting a court's decision over the custody of my children. Since the ruling has become final, I applied for rent assistance, single parenting benefit and family tax benefits and were denied.

        I am still trying to work out how to survive and to where to go to next.

        • +2

          Something's gone wrong in the application process or you've missing something…there's no way you'd not be eligible for FTB on $960 a fortnight with 2 young kids. Not sure about other benefits but it would surprise me if you weren't eligible for at least part payments of them too.

          Are they vaccinated? Has it been recorded correctly? You can ask for them to give you a record of what income and assets they have listed for you and double check it's correct. And ask for their reasons for denying you payments, you are entitled to get this information from them.

        • @YTW: Thank you for the advice. I will go and see them again tomorrow. (Yes, my kids are vaccinated)

        • @fiza1981: For FTB it's now important that it's recorded that they were, we had some issues a couple of years ago with it not being recorded correctly as the nurse who did it hadn't updated my daughter's records when she did the jabs - just another thing to double check when going over things.

          Hope you get some answers and assistance.

        • @YTW: Thank you, kindly.

        • @YTW:
          Great advise!

  • -2

    I think most forms of social welfare should be stopped.

    • +13

      Well then you are extremely lucky because there are plenty of countries you can move to that have no social welfare. Have a look around, just ignore the crime rate statistics and you'll be fine.

      • +1

        They need to build a wall.

        • And make Australia great again

  • +1

    I totally disagree. Those on unemployment are motivated to get on disability support pension as the payment rates are higher

  • +4

    Cue, angry comments.

    • GRRRAAAWWWRRR!!!

    • Right on, here I am!

      With the shouting! And the loud noises!

  • +4

    Allowing youth more free time by supplementing income is maybe meant to encourage youth to study in their early 20s. Pretty hard to study full time when you're older and have responsibilities

  • Are you a student or unemployed?

    I thought YA was only for up to 20? At 21 onwards you get Newstart right?

    Did they raise the minimum age for Newstart?

    Oh NVM, you're a student.

  • +1

    The system is far from fair and many students who could benefit from some extra money to pay for textbooks and food and have some semblance of independence whilst studying do not receive anything. Most have graduated by 22 when they are classed independent and can access it. Not everyone has a job throughout uni as they might prefer to focus on their studies or are supported by parents. I don't think spoilt brats should receive it, but it should be available to most students regardless of parental income. The government is investing in peoples future, they will get that money back a thousand times over once the student gets a job and pays taxes. You should be thankful that welfare exists because jobs are few and far between these days, and with many people applying for a single job it is not easy to stand out from the crowd. You can lose your job with little notice and have great difficulty finding another one, so newstart is a safeguard for those who don't have enough savings or have fallen on hard times. There are uni graduates even in fields like engineering that are unemployed ffs, there just arent enough jobs around and the government could do a whole lot more to fix this situation. No graduate should have to resort to fast foods jobs and similar.

    • +2

      Why not? Because it's beneath the dignity of an educated person to have to support themselves? Dreams don't come true just by belief. Even having a degree doesn't guarantee anything.

      Source - I am a university graduate in a working class job.

  • +1

    Wanna feel even worse? Have a look at the way criminals are treated vs. tax-paying law-abiders.

    Criminals are free to commit acts of violence against anyone they choose. If their crime goes off without a hitch, they will get away with a handbag, perhaps having bashed a lady along the way. If their target fights back, the criminal has the law protecting him. The law may even side with the criminal if the victim wins the fight by too big a margin, which can result in convictions for the victim of the crime whose only mistake was to get robbed and fight back.
    If the criminal is convicted he will probably get good behaviour and be back on the streets looking for his next target. The police won't care.

    If you or I park too long on a street though, look out. $120 for overstaying, mate. The cops don't look for criminals because there's no money in them anyway. All they do is leech, no matter what.

    So it's the same story all around. Australia rewards and protects the scum, while sucking blood out of hard workers and contributors.

    • +1

      Australia rewards and protects the scum, while sucking blood out of hard workers and contributors.

      That's what I thought too, but the more you think about it, the country need money to run. People in government need money to cover their paycheck and bonus.
      Where's the money coming from?
      Mining industry is dead, property ballooning is over, Australia is overcrowded so govt cannot sell permanent residence anymore.

      What's the next best action to get money fast without lifting finger?
      Rather than government do lots of work improving exports, they opt for easier option: Leeching from its own people.

      The cops don't look for criminals because there's no money in them anyway.

      One good point. If the criminals got no money, who's the next easiest target?
      Answer: Taxpayers who won't fight back if they got ridiculous fine.

  • +1

    The reduction in Youth Allowance is at max 60c per dollar of income. They do not reward laziness per se, however they do give a disincentive to work.

    For example:
    You are already earning $519 a fortnight, so you are already in the 60% (theoretical) tax bracket regarding the Youth Allowance payment reduction. Source: Income Test

    Assume you are getting your $30 per hour as claimed in OP (damn your job pays well!), effectively you are only getting 40% of that amount as the other 60% is offset by the reduction of Youth Allowance.

    Real Pay = 30 * 0.4 = $12 per hour

    The question is, are you willing to work the extra hours for only $12 per hour of pay? If not, then don't work that extra mile.

    Yes there are other variables as the initial tax Youth Allowance Income Test brackets if you were not previously working, and I'm happy to walk through it with you if you want through PM.

    • In otherwords hit your ceiling and get the rest in cash

      • If you are happy to do things outside the law, there are probably better things which can yield enough money not even care about welfare support.

        • Yes, sell ice. Must as well add to the burden of an already crippled system

    • Learn to swim instructors in Sydney hover around the $30 mark at council pools. Private ones are around $26/h. I've worked out my ceiling, which is working around 16.8 hours at $29.90 per week before it becomes unprofitable, unless there's schools shifts where I can pick up an extra 25 hours a week easily.

      • Invest more in your education and study more. First thing find out what "unprofitable" means. If you earn 30$ for the first X ours and 10$ for the next ones does not mean that anything becomes "unprofitable", unless you take into consideration some "opportunity cost" (google that too).

  • -2

    If I could, I would revoke the whole centrelink system despite being reliant on it for the first 6 months after graduating.

    • I thought you were on CL for 5 years?

      • +1

        Sounds like a recently graduated engineer?

        • Nah but I was joking anyways, Cl provided me useful resources when I needed it, primarily money

      • I'm taking about new starts not YA

  • The real question is what would those people who are receiving money be doing if they didn't receive that assistance ? The probability is that begging and petty crime such as theft would probably rise..

    However those that purposefully rort the system because it is 'easy to' aren't likely to have a problem with burglary or other shady ventures.

    Obviously there are those on benefits who are doing the right thing and endeavor to find work (as are those who are legitimately ineligible). These people have a justifiable means to keep themselves and their families afloat.

  • +2

    Since I turned 22..

    [stops reading]

    Oh I know, I'm being an ageist bigot but 22 year olds are embarrassingly ignorant. I know I was.

  • +1

    They do not reward laziness, if you work, you will receive more money than if you did not work. Hence the 10 hours or whatever you can work before they take anything off your benefit. Then they take 40c of the dollar or whatever until you reach cut off point which is fair enough because you are working therefore don't require benefits.

    Centrelink is a safety net for society but you are always better off working. A pension pays less than a minimum wage job.

    • -1

      What's the go with reaching the working ceiling and finding its better to stop there than to exert yourself more? Isn't that promoting laziness?

      • Not really. Isn't youth allowance the same amount as the dole? So say 250 a week, if you work 10 hours a fortnight its probably a low pay job so you might make an extra 150 bucks? So you can have 300-350 a week to live on which is a pittance and live in a crappy, derelict share house, not afford a car, never go out, never have a holiday, have nothing nice. Or you can get a full time job, make 800 a week and have all those things. Its not fun sitting on your arse all day with no money.

        • -2

          If I work 30 hours a fortnight I get $926.9, which is just under the cutoff for maximum money before no YA. Why would I bother working 31 hours when I would effectively lose money by working that extra hour? As a casual, I'm allowed to work up to 35 hours a week - if there's a school booked in I would gladly work 30 hours per week because that would outweigh the loss of YA. But if I got called in after 15 hours already worked on a slow week, I would have no incentive to take that shift.

          Edit: 95% of all rostered LTS instructors are casuals but have regular shifts and hardly anyone ever gets fired.

  • +1

    Every extra $1 income, YA will be reduced by 60c. I dont get how OP gets the conclusion of losing money when adding more hours. Total income will still increased

    • After $930 or thereabouts YA gets stopped

      • So where you lose your money? Your earning never decreased

        • The loss of money would come from working a little over the cutoff limit, where that hour would be better off spent not working and getting more.

        • @niggard:
          With work: have 40c nett every $1 over the cutoff
          Not working: 0

          40c is better than 0, how are you getting more by not working?

        • @djprima:

          thats not how you calculate it

          You're assuming the most simple solution

          What about these factors

          1. Time it takes to get to and from work
          2. Cost of transport
          3. The Cost of the time spent at work

          Etc

  • I am both a YA receiver (22), uni student, and work regularly (casual hours though).
    Sometimes I exceed my fortnightly income limit, other times I don't.
    I use to think like OP does "Oh know, I'm losing money by working too much" - but really, I'm still earning MORE by working MORE hours - come to think of YA as a supplement. And once OP can get over that I think he will be fine.

  • +5

    Personally I think this is a pretty bullshit argument.
    I receive YA and also have worked 9 hours a week every week for the past 5 years. I get my $238 a fortnight and this barely covers my daily expenses.

    Centrelink encourages me to work as it is not enough to just live off. I only work 9 hours a week as I spend my other time during the week doing my uni work and volunteering in order to give back/get some experience so I can get a good job when I do graduate. My weekly expenses are currently as follows:

    Rent: $30/wk
    Car Registration: $12.5/wk
    Car Insurance: $20/wk
    Petrol: $30/wk
    Parking at Uni: $15/wk (if you want to make the argument that I should catch PT it would be about the exact same cost).

    This leaves me with $12/wk to spend on food and other expenses. Not to mention this doesn't include my $600/semester of uni textbooks, car servicing every 6 months, prescription medications, cost to events at uni which you are expected to go to in order to 'mingle' and making connections and the many other things being a successful uni student entails.

    As for my work, I'm lucky enough to only have to work 9 hours as I work 4.5 hours on a Sunday (which I get paid 1.5x for) and also I work in a retail company which pays above award rates. You must be pretty lucky to be 22 years old and earning $30 an hour. My friends who work as law clerks or paralegals get paid $23 an hour. How did you get your experience to get a job, at such a young age, to earn so much more than the rest of your age group? If you say that your parents provided you with x after school activity which led to your ability to gain employment in this area means that you were advantaged over other people who's parents were unable to afford to pay for after school activity x.

    In addition, the fact that you are 22 and still studying at uni makes an assumption (perhaps a year or so too early) that you have been unable to afford to study full time since graduating high school (assuming you are studying a 3 year degree) either that or you are in your final year and may need a little bit of extra help with those final year expenses (graduation robes, photos, helping family get to your graduation to see you walk across the stage, academic transcripts for job applications etc etc). Of course, I am in my 5th year of university and still have 18-24 months to go as I am studying a 5.5 year degree and also have been unable to do 100% load every semester due to my health.

    The fact that you think this $238 is just extra pocket money shows that you are supported by your parents much more than others receiving youth allowance are. Yes, I live at home and my mum supports me as much as she can, I am often the one who has to help support her and if it wasn't for youth allowance I would be taking 11 years to finish my degree, rather than 6. You clearly do not have the ability to place yourself in another's shoes.

    • -2

      I had two years added onto my degree due to a long battle with depression and alcoholism.

      • Thank you for replying to a very small snippet of my post.

        You didn't address a) that Youth Allowance encourages people to work as it is not a 'living' allowance b) how do you earn $30/hr which is much above minimum wage/your age group peers c) why you have a lack of expenses which causes youth allowance to be considered as 'pocket' money to you?

        • -1

          The questions you asked above have been answered in posts above. I'm a learn to swim instructor that gets paid $29.90/h. I have a lack of expenses because my parents pay for stuff. Youth allowance gets cut the moment you make more than $930 a fortnight, which as another poster said is fair and I have taken that on board.

        • +2

          @niggard:

          You shouldn't be getting YA or at much lower rate if parents are supporting you.

        • +2

          @sirlothie: Correct, if he's claiming to be a dependant ("lack of expenses because my parents pay for stuff.") and his parents are wealthy or have "wealth". Meaning greater than ~700k in assets (not including PPOR) then he shouldn't be on it. Centrelink can, will and have come for money owed to them through bullshit claims, regardless of if you're truthfully studying while claiming more than you're entitled to.

          Showing an incredibly poor attitude to work and the value of money if that's the case.

          Complaining about it being unfair? But sounds happy to exploit it as much as possible for all the wrong reasons.

        • @niggard: It sounds like someone should be reporting you and your parents for social security fraud. I have been supporting my employed son since he first started working at 18. He put in the hours, I covered his expenses, and we were critically poor. 3 years later, he is fully independant, my finances have been freed up, and he is prepared to chip in when we have to go through it all again with his little brother. I am sending stable and responsible men into this world, but far to many parents like yours are filling up our world with overgrown spoilt children.

        • @nikkirose: you can get (profanity). It's not my fault the system says I'm eligible. I put into the calculator everything truthfully and it spat out that I was eligible. Not every person in this world needs to sink to your level and be poor. My parents have never committed any fraud and for you to even claim that is insulting. You don't know me or my situation, and you're coming across as just a bitter person. Oh, and I'm sorry you were critically poor in the past. I wouldn't know, because I'm a spoilt rich kid as claimed by some others.

          Yes, I get things handed to me on a silver platter. Yes, I have brains and I don't apologise for them. Yes, I do have a problem with alcohol but I have sought help and have continued my sobriety for 236 days which is statistically better than most others in their first year of sobriety. What more do you want to say about me?

        • @goonsta: $700k worth of assets excluding PPOR is nothing…

        • @niggard: 0/10 trolling now..

  • If you want to work more, then stop being on payments. Centrelink does not reward laziness, they make it incredibly hard to be on payments, with a phone system that cuts you off after an hour, and a system that blames you for the mistakes of Centrelink staff, it is designed to make you not want to be on payments.

    Please, don't confuse not working with being lazy. Corporate bosses get rich off of workers hard work. That's laziness.

  • -1

    Alcoholic working at the pools…

    Hope it's not as a life guard..

    • -2

      I'm not a practicing alcoholic. So what if I'm a lifeguard or not? I never drank on the job and never went to work over the limit.

      • you managed to pass a "working with children" did you provide full disclosure?

        • -1

          Get (profanity) won't you? It never affected my professional life. Try taking a lower shot you (profanity).

        • -1

          My bosses are well aware of my condition after I sought help and they have thrown their full support behind me. You don't know me or my story. You are being extremely judgemental and I'm thankful people like you don't exist in my circle of friends.

  • +1

    Theoretically, you're supposed to do 10hrs a week study for each subject you study in order to get a 7 or "A+” in your uni subjects. So if you're at uni doing full-time course load of 4 units you're theoretically all ready doing a 40hr week.

    Centrelink let's me earn $400 a fortnight before my payments get cut and if I actually do earn more than that, I assure you I'm not doing 40hrs of uni work. I guess there rationale is that if you have that much spare time then you're probably flaking out at uni.

    • -4

      BA/BEd distinction average, averaging 8-10 hours a week and maybe 2 hours a week of study tops

  • +2

    claiming government benefits is shameful

    >

    Parents pay for his car.

    get a grip kid.

    • Yep. Poor little rich kid.

  • Why is it that Centrelink encourages laziness and not hard work? I find it slightly ridiculous this system can even exist.

    No wonder why your studies are going down, your worried about stuff you shouldn't be worried about. You have to figure out what's the benefit to you over what's the benefit to the society as a whole. The system is put in place to help you and you should use it but crunch the numbers and see if that Pool job will net you a house in 5 years. The politicians are 10 steps ahead of you and already gone through these motions.

    Don't tell people what to do either if you want to work in the Farm and go pick fruit and vegetables go for it in your semester break but don't whinge about what other people are doing, you don't know them and they don't know you.

  • +1

    Because YA is there so you don't have to work and can concentrate on your studies? I think it's pretty obvious.

  • OP needs a reality check

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