Low pay, long hours, tiring conditions, you name it. I've known people who work for restaurants; both fast food and fine-dining and absolutely hate it. Most of the times chefs are grumpy, waiters get jittery and managers seem frustrated and under-appreciated for their work.
Just wondering if anyone works for hospitality and actually enjoys it?
Or what's your worst experience working in hospitality?
I guess you are right, Hospitality and mainly customer service is the worst place to be, I'd say do not look at it as a permanent/main job.
Australians should consider themselves overpaid in the food service industry and extremely lucky.
If you don't want to put up with rude people then you'll have to work out a way to get a better job or something in a different industry.
Still amazes me how much casual employees get paid on weekends in Australia lol.
It's like the businesses exist to pay for peoples wages instead of existing to make money or provide a return for the investor.
extremely lucky.
What makes you say that?
And please don't try to compare against a tipping based system
Because they make more than any other country in the world as a relative comparison.
A manager at McDonalds in Australia can make 50K.
A manager in the US can make 28K if they're lucky.
To work a Sunday you get time and a half. Public holidays it's double time- even when there are still plenty of people that would work the same shift for normal rates like in other free market economies.
A perfect example: To work on a public holiday in Australia as a casual employee, you'll get double time and a half.
So a 22 year old working that shift on $21.70 an hour will literally get $50 an hour.
That is ridiculous and that is why people getting those rates should consider themselves lucky.
Meanwhile, the owners of that Cafe who are staying open on a public holiday, are actually losing money because they have to pay 5 or 6 staff $50 an hour.
There's no middle ground and the employees are the only ones that benefit from a system where wage costs average 30% of business turnover.
And yet if you took the weekly pay on average, after tips, they'd end up earning less than a worker in the US does with tips.
You know who was most pissed off in the states when they talked about cutting back the tips and lifting the wages…? The workers were. They know they could get paid more in tips than they ever would as wages.
So unfortunately in that way it makes it a lot harder comparing incomes, it can only be speculated. Everyone knows the staff in the US get like $5/hr, but no one knows for sure what the tips work out to.
And I'm still of the belief that someone working on a public holiday should be getting paid more than their base wage. Hell I'm not in the industry anymore and I still believe it!
There's no middle ground
Actually more than you think. More and more businesses are incorporating public holiday surcharges, not accepting vouchers on public holidays etc
A small minority of tips workers get paid more. Those in bars and some restaurant workers in wealthier areas or places like Las Vegas where this is often non stop action and non stop customers and thus flowing tips.
The problem is that when there aren't any customers, the base wage is lower than the fixed wage base rate.
If you work in a restaurant in the US and you work in the kitchen, you're lucky if the waiting staff share any tips with you to add to your $9 wage.
If you're a dealer or waitress at the casino and it's dead, and they aren't getting any customers playing blackjack or poker or whatever area they are servicing, their wage is literally $4 an hour.
People on tips have a lower minimum wage- so if there aren't customers, then there's no tips.
There is protection here by the government to ensure that whatever job you are legally doing, you will be paid a higher minimum than any other country.
It's a fact.
Charging an extra 10% on public holidays is a good idea, but it pisses customers off and still doesn't cover the difference in a $50 an hour wage and a $23 an hour wage.
Plenty of other countries and their workers just work on weekends because that's when the work is available.
Real Estate agents don't get paid more for working weekends and public holidays. Care salesmen don't get paid more for working weekends and holidays. Doctors don't either.
But hospitality workers get paid time and half and double time and a half while the owners of the business are losing money on their busiest days.
I agree that some kind of incentive is good, say a 10 or 20% loading on Sundays, or a 20% bonus on public holidays, but a 75% loading on those days is almost criminal and it's completely neglecting the entrepreneurs and people with the balls and courage to run these businesses and take out loands with their hard earned money.
In most countries, if you don't wanna work a Sunday or public holiday, then someone else will- you do what you gotta do to pay the bills and if that means working a Sunday or public holiday then boo hoo.
We are just an overly entitled nation and it's why our economy is terrible without natural resources. It's not a free market- there's a government and union hand inflicting control over the market by putting wages of workers WAY above anything else- and there needs to be more balance.
Real Estate agents don't get paid more for working weekends and public holidays. Care salesmen don't get paid more for working weekends and holidays. Doctors don't either.
I work as a full time doctor in a very large hospital here in Australia. I receive a nominal base wage (which is actually less than what a graduate primary school teacher earns).
~40% of my working hours fall outside of the regular 8:00-17:00 working day. Therefore, a significant proportion of my income is reliant on working during non-social hours. I often lose one in every two weekends, I work night shifts for weeks at a time, and rarely get to see my friends/family as they work during standard business hours.
This is the norm for 50% of the doctors/nurses in healthcare.
The 20% loading I get for working over night, 50% loading for working Saturday, and 75% loading I get for working Sunday does not act as an incentive to work those shifts, rather it is a poor consolation for missing out on countless social activities and quality time spent with people who aren't my patients.
-And you can bet your arse anyone working on a public holiday (either in hospitality or healthcare) earns that 2.5x loading. During these days there are far fewer staff on, and there is a massively increased demand due to the increased workload:staff ratio.
Your comments are entirely uninformed and incredibly frustrating to the people who work a sub-par wage and rely on penalties to offset the cost to their work/life balance.
Your rates do not sound accurate.
If a 22 year old is getting paid $21.70 an hour, that is most likely the casual rate which includes the 1.5x loading.
So if they work on a PH, they're rate would be (21.70/1.5) x 2.5 = $36 / hour
I may be wrong about the doctors and overtime- which I'm not sure is the same in every state- but the fact remains that Australians are lucky to have these priveledges. As I said, car salespeople and real estate agents don't get these rates and they often have no choice to work these days and hours- it's part of working in that industry.
Why should hospitality staff and retail staff get paid these ridiculous extras?
If I may ask, who pays your salary? Does the government pay a portion of it? Is your employers wage cost towards your salary subsidised by the government? Because a retail employer and the 50 year old couple that own the cafe on the corner aren't receiving any government subsidies.
To say my comments are uninformed shows that you have no idea how the wage costs that Australian businesses have to pay affects their sustainability and you have never owned any kind of business.
There is simply zero justification for small businesses to have to pay $50 an hour to people for working a public holiday. In other countries the market determines who works what days and if you want a job and that's the industry you've chosen, then guess what? Work those days.
Again, I didn't say that penalty rates should be abolished, I said they need to be reviewed because right now, they are unfair towards Australian businesses and the Australians that are running them.
Typically you've made your argument completely about the employee with zero regard for the employer.
Australia, the land of the entitled.
@murphy84:
And what you don't seem to understand is that cafes get triple the the turnover on a public holiday because there are more people with spare time out to spend money on breakfast/lunch instead of being in their offices working.
Car salesmen and realestate agents work on commission, so it would be downright financially irresponsible if they did not make themselves available during hours when the working public have time to browse.
Take some time and reevaluate your position.
Regurgitating LNP rhetoric makes you sound obtuse and uninformed.
You conveniently ignored my question about your wages and your employer's wage costs and government help.
So obviously, you don't have any clue about how economics work in the real world.
It's very easy to sit there and ignore the people that PAY the wages and take the risks that make our economy's circle turn when you're paid by an unlimited treasure chest of tax dollars.
You honestly believe that cafes and small businesses are three times as busy on a public holiday? Some businesses may be twice as busy, some may be even three times as busy, but the majority of food outlets/cafes will certainly not be.
If a cafe is twice as busy, but its wage costs are 2.5 times more, then it's pointless to be in business isn't it?
My 'ignorant' position comes from owning multiple retail food businesses and seeing businesses fall over every day- couples and families that lose their houses and go bankrupt after busting their arses to start something- but ultimately being destroyed by:
1) a lack of cash flow
2) exorbitant staff costs making up 30%+ of their turnover leading to lack of cash flow.
Now they aren't the only reasons a business will fail, but for someone who's been doing this for 10 years I can tell you these are the key factors. The businesses (especially cafes) that succeed are those that are paying their staff under the table- which happens at 75% of cafes around Australia and (I would guess) at least 90% of cafes that have been around more than 5 years.
Even my two best shops (which are at airports in two different states)- airports being one of the best locations to have a retail food business- barely make anything on public holidays.
I can 100% tell you that you are completely and utterly wrong and to start with the LNP rhetoric is a typical line taken by someone who gets government help and has zero clue about how an economy works.
I thank the imaginary heavens above that I'm lucky enough to have my shops in good locations- the enormous traffic and turnover are different to most retail businesses.
That they're still break even on public holidays when the turnover is higher is proof that businesses outside that airport bubble are plainly losing money and might as well be shut.
The Australian economy is not a free market. It's not a balanced market. It's a market that drastically favors the workers and completely ignores those who pay the workers. There is no middle ground and the conditions need to be changed to encourage investment and risk taking.
@murphy84: to clarify: Cafes earn 3x turnover on public holidays compared to the same weekday on a non-holiday.
Obviously not your establishment, which operates in an airport, so the only factor affecting demand is the demand for flights out of the city.
Your argument is riddled with more holes than the stale Swiss cheese you serve your airport customers.
Public holidays are the busiest days at airports by a wide margin because leisure travellers skyrocket and bring their children with them. So again, you have no idea what you're talking about.
And yes, the turnover is higher on public holidays, but no where near enough to cover the cost of wage increases.
To put it bluntly, you're in a privileged field where your wage is paid for by an unlimited government fund and you have no idea about how small business works.
Just take a step back and think about the impact that Australia's ridiculous wage system have on small businesses. Talk to a shop manager or owner. If you think the average pub in Australia is making any money without pokies, think again.
The majority of the stores at your local Westfield are losing money or breaking even.
So your airport cafes are likely run by casuals, as they're probably open around 18-20hrs/day, am I right? Some of the airport cafes are open 24hrs. With your casuals, you don't need to pay them any extra to work at midnight, or stupid hours. Actually come to think of it, you don't need to pay full time or part time any extra to work those hours, just stick under 38hrs/week, keep the casuals for the weekend/public holidays.
So actually while you're complaining about staff earning loading on the weekend and public holidays, you have staff prepared to work stupid hours of the day at normal pay rate?
Do you need a ladder to get off that high horse?
Jesus you guys are clueless.
Everyone gets loading regardless of whether or not you are full time/part time/casual, the rates are just different.
Casual's have a higher hourly rate, but don't get sick leave/holiday leave. They do get loading on weekends and public holidays and before 6pm and after 9pm on weekday and it's based on a percentage of the full time rate which is 25% less than the casual rate.
So for example, a 21 year old casual (not supervisor or manager) is on $23.70 an hour as the base rate, on Saturday their rate goes up to Saturday $28.48.(Plus super) (50% loading)
-On a Sunday they get paid $33.23. (75%)
-On a Public holiday they get $52.21 an hour(175%).
(All these rates are +super on top too)
Those figures above are for a baseline employee. Supervisors and Managers start at $25+ an hour (there are level 2's which are supervisors and level 3.1 and 3.2 manager levels.)
Now if I have a part time or full time employee, and their regular shift falls on a public holiday, they can either:
1) take the day off and get their normal pay rate as a paid public holiday. I then have to pay a casual to do that shift, whilst paying the full timer their public holiday pay on their day off.
2) Or the full timer can work the public holiday, get paid their normal rate x 175% ($47.47) AND get another lot of the same amount of hours at their normal rate. So they get two pay cheques that day.
As you can imagine EVERYONE wants these shifts because they are getting paid like accountants for standing at a register or making coffee!!!
The problem with these rates is that they were designed to 'protect' workers so they could have their weekends, but all that happens now is that it's so much better dollar wise to work on the weekends that working mothers (like some of my staff) would RATHER work on weekends instead of being at home with their kids (what these ridiculous rates were designed to 'protect').
Penalty rates apply to EVERY worker in the retail sector no matter your classification of full/part time/casual…unless you are being paid under the table.
Casuals get paid more as an hourly but not sick pay and leave, and their weekend/ public holiday rate is higher because their base rate is higher. A casual manager at one my businesses can make $60 an hour in some circumstances haha.
There is no way around it and I'm just a lucky bastard that the turnover on the other days makes it worth my time.
It's a complete shambles and it's the number one reason for small business failure in Australia.
So yes, it's awesome paying people $54.47 per hour when their already generous normal rate is at $23.70 an hour as you can imagine.
I get that people need to get a pay boost on these days, but right now it is just WAY too much at 50%, 75% and 175% and it's destroying businesses daily.
Just think about your average cafe with 6 waiters and a chef or two and the fact that they are all on around $50 an hour. How many customers do you think they need to cover the wage costs of $400 an hour before making any money after the costs of food/power/rent/raw materials etc… ?
Think deeply about it.
Yes it's unfortunate, our best jobs are offshored leaving locals with the basic ones.
I have been working in hospitality industry for 5 years now. I used to work in a cake shop, then moved to a bakery. I used to love it because I made cake and bread everyday. Now things get a Little stressful as I need to supervise 20+ people and deal with upper management. Earning around 65k a year atm including weekend work. I am bored of doing the same thing everyday and at the moment not enjoying my job. I am thinking of something to study part time, just wanted to do something different but not sure what or where to start! Any ideas please? Should I switch career?
It's not great, am the asm and get under 15/hour.
Loved the challenges and the people I worked with, hate the hours and the pay.
I maxed out slightly over 100 hours once working back to back events within a week. Literally left around midnight and came in 6am for the make shift 24 hours cafe and breakfast prep for the organisers, with 1 night sleeping it off in the storeroom as I cbf going home.
That was back when I was fresh from Uni starting out in a venue working my way up.
I worked in a small town Restaurant/Bar in the Adelaide hills and i have to say
I actually did enjoy it even tho it was hard and tiring work a times.
I had some great people to work with and i learn't a lot of skills.
And at 18-19 you can't really complain about making 21$+ an hour or more depending on the shift.
Its funny because i made more in Hospitality for half the hours than i did in 3D Animation
with two TV shows for each of the Major networks.
I started working in a Japanese restaurant at 16 and continued for the next 10 years ( a couple of nights a week ), it was a great way to have Japanese food for free as we were fed dinner and supper. The pay wasn't great but the experience was invaluable.
Hospitality is a great industry! However, like everything else, it's what you make of it.
I'm 22 and duty manager for a bar, it pays ~$27 an hour but no tips which is pretty good cash. Bartenders do make more because of tips than managers hence an under appreciation for them perhaps. That and dealing with the owner or licensee can be difficult when views or methods differ.
In addition, the hours are long and you have to deal with some people that are just plain assholes but if you work with good people, you'll enjoy it regardless. It also provides a surprisingly good social life.
Onto tips; Most managers don't take them but bartenders, waitresses can make some serious money from them. I know some high end restaurant staff that make around $1000 a week untaxed which is crazy. It depends where you work.
Worked at one of the most reputed thai restaurant in Melbourne. It's very physically demanding jobs but I must say that the work environment was great. Got my lunch and dinner made by some of the best chef in Australia. Knock off beer or wine every night. Great bunch of people and pay me at casual rate which was more than enough for me. I have worked for more than six years and enjoyed every bit working for that restaurant. It still look after me as every time I go for the dinner, get really good staff discounts.
I worked in hospitality for 5 years as a student in a reputable hotel.
I hated it to the bone, dealing with customers are a pain. Having said that the experience changes who I am. When speaking with customer service now I try to be the nicest person to them, respect go both ways so most of the time the staff will be nice to be back.
Having said that again, I have also encountered some pretty shit customer service even when I try to be nice to them.
Worked in hospitality for over 4 years and there have definitely been some good and bad times. I would say that the experience and skills learnt was the most rewarding aspect of the job as it helped me to become much more confident and outgoing. Pay was pretty terrible though.
I am not sure what the problem is. I worked in hospitality for at least 5 years, in a pizza shop whilst I was studying. It was hard and pay wasn't great, but I had a good time and it was flexible. Sure I missed some NYE parties, that is part of it.
But I wasn't a hospitality professional, and I was unqualified to do anything else at the time. If you have no experience then it is a good way to start and get experience. if you want to be a professional, then i hope there is good money for working at a good place.
So is the problem that if you don't work hard and get qualified you get paid poorly? Seems pretty obvious and common to all jobs. I have had to work hard and keep studying to stay relevant in my job. Saturday afternoon as I write this, I am studying, not partying.
Or is it that after selecting hospitality as a profession, working and getting qualifications, graduating from entry level to better jobs, you still don't get paid much? What did you study and where did you work that was so bad?
I worked in hospitality and ABSOLUTELY LOVED IT.
Emphasise love and wouldn't trade that experience for anything in the world.
I had the most amazing manager, met some incredible people (many are still my best friends) and was able to interact with SO many different people. Hospitality is great in that you have countless short term interactions.
Sure there were horrific customers, had some horrible managers and were days I wanted to leave but overall I LOVED it.
I couldn't have loved it more.
LOVE LOVE LOVE.
Hospitality is definitely not for the weak. Some of my friends who work as chefs stay with their employers because they have great teams where everyone gets along, they value that more than a higher pay cheque. They say it's like getting paid to hang out with friends, even if it is hard work.
But holy shite can hospitality people PARTY. When they get down they seriously get down. When I go to parties with people who work office jobs it's just people standing around in their groups drinking, with the odd one or two having a glass too many and making an ass of himself/herself, all pretty bland.
The first time I went to a party with my chef friends I was left speechless. I arrived to them snorting coke between hookers cleaveages, there were hash rice crispies they actually baked at work afterhours(and they were pretty baked themselves too), endless supply of alcohol, lap dancers, giant dildo sword fights, a 'sex tent' set up in the backyard, a whole pig on a spit roast and SO. MUCH. WEED. They seriously know how to unwind after a hard days work.
Hospitality workers may be in the hardest industry, but they compensate by partying harder than anyone else.
…and if you do decide to go on the town with them. They know everyone at every venue and you never have to line up, pay or worry about what your wearing
Definitely this as well lol. One guy just rocked up to the party in nothing but boxers and thongs, said hello to everyone, sat on the couch and just starting drinking and smoking weed. I was stunned.
hahah yeah. I've seen similar antics… so many iphones being handed around with lines racked up on them. What you describe is definitely how hospo's party haha…and they always make everyone feel welcome.
"I arrived to them snorting coke between hookers cleaveages"
Just remember that using cocaine directly fuels the murder of tens of thousands of people.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mexican_Drug_War
But whatever, let's party!
You're right mate, you'd be astonished how many people put that shit up their nose from all walks of life. You can tell them that and they don't care…even the US want to shift the power to the medellin (columbian cartel) because the Mexicans are just too ruthless.
Drugs use is rife in Australia. I remember seeing partners at a law firm at a xmas party i was at smoking ice in the freakin carpark. Filthy
Just like recruiters…
Agree.
When looking at the hospitality industry, just remember that the Coalition is very keen on scrapping all penalty rates. They consider working on a Saturday night or public holiday to be no different than working on Tuesday afternoon.
I like the solution some local restaurants have implemented: 10% surcharge on public holidays. The restaurant stays open, the customer has a choice whether they wish to purchase the food or not, the employees are paid more and the employer gets to cover their costs from the surcharge. Less government and red tape, more logical thinking.
Well it certainly seems like people in the hospitality industry complain the most.
That's not a fair comparison because numerically it is likely the greatest employer field due to the casual, short stinted nature of the work.
Almost everyone i know has worked in hospitality at some point in their life.
It really depends on what part of hospitality that you work in. I work/worked as a general bar attendant at Caulfield Racecourse, Moonee Valley Racecourse, MCG, Etihad Stadium, Flemington Racecourse and Melbourne Olympic parks to name a few and the only really 'bad' experiences I had was when I accepted a shift as a waiter and whenever I had to deal with chefs. Fast paced bars were fine, generally good fun, good pay, no real complaints. I can understand how working in a café would suck but not all of hospitality is bad. IMO retail is much worse.
Working as a waiter in hospitality is great fun. But for some reason or another evil demons will inhabit chefs and hospitality managers as their preferred hosts. I swear I've worked for a chef or two that swore backwards in Latin. It was pretty intense.
If only surgeons and NASA engineers knew what it was like to work long hours under pressure.
I studied hospitality, worked in hospitality (front of the house) for 5 years and then moved to back office (hospitality industry ) for 4 years now.
my conclusion:
I regret studying hospitality
I hate working @ front of the house
I love the perks and benefit
I love that I dont have to wash and iron my own work attire- i can rock up in my jeans and t-shirt and change to my uniform.
I love my colleague but hating the management people
working @back of the house is great as i can have best of both worlds - getting the perks and benefit also 9-5 mo to fri hours
having said that not many of my fellow classmate are as lucky as me - its difficult to move from front of the house to back office job because the competition will not only your fellow hospitality people but also people from different education background (i.e finance, IT, sales& marketing, business degree etc)
i found people who have had worked in hospitality industry (at some point in their life) to be more patient and polite as they sure know how not to react like an idiot who complaint about everything and knows their fellow hospitality pain and what they have to face everyday at work. i have a friend who never work in hospitality in his life and he is a nightmare - shout at waitress and picking on every little things. - i dont meant to generalize everyone but yeah.. thats just my thought ..
Don't do it unless you have to. And if you have to try not to complain. I worked at domino's pizza and it was worse than slavery
I'm a small business owner in hospitality and what I can say its hard work. The money is okay but if you take into account the number of hours your working in a week, you really are earning roughly $20-30 an hour (this is a busy lunch bar). If you hire too many staff then it really cuts into your bottom line, so you end up doing everything just to make enough to get out while you can.
Plenty of negatives, break ins resulting in stolen cigarettes, cash register, broken roller shutters, broken door, etc
Waking up in the middle night due to alarm going off, no holiday pay, always worry about the business when on holidays or break.
Its a lot of stress and I recommend it to only those that can do the hard long hours and actually have a passion in good service and providing good food.
Low pay, long hours, tiring conditions, you name it. I've known people who work for restaurants; both fast food and fine-dining and absolutely hate it
Cry me a river,
If you hate it so much why are the ones in it still doing it ? It's not as though anyone is tied by chains, Move on do something more productive. Make more money, This is Australia, as a migrant here I see opportunity everywhere.
If the conditions are as bad as all the comments here suggest more people would quit did that the wages would rise up overtime. All my friends who have had restaurants (1 Pizza Independent shop and one Franchise) always complain about how hard it is to find good staff and keep them and they are tired of replacing and getting new staff over and over again.
Heck I was a door to door salesman when I first landed here and it was tough, not only are your bosses tough half your customers hate you. Door knocking in the seedier parts of Sydney is no fun, not only is it hard work but also risking personal safety in a big way. Every doorknocker has had this Dogs set us on, threats and actual violence.
But if you hate hospitality so much move on do something else up skill yourself. This is AUSTRALIA !!!!!! You have all the opportunity you need.
That's what I did,
PS: On a personal level, I loved door knocking as a new migrant it was a great way to learn about the country and the people and the cultures.
LOVED IT.
I think hospitality is a great industry, it just sucks that so many people who go into it aren't up for the challenge. My first job I was a water slide attendant at a small theme park and I just sat there and made sure people waited before they crossed the red line before I could let the next ones go down. That was the laziest but also most boring job I could think of. When I moved to McDonald's I worked there for 5 years during the last years of high school and part way through uni I loved it. It was a brand new store and we broke many opening week sales records. Back then there was a different person for every station, ie one did buns, one the grill and another would dress the burgers with another calling the production and wrapping them. To be pumped off your feet and have to coordinate everything in the kitchen to get it to work like clockwork was some of the best teaming I've ever experienced and led to a great camaraderie. Sure it's tense, people get heated, you have to work your butt off but I loved that.
I also love trying to give good service to customers on the front desk. It's not rocket science but being helpful, listening to people's concerns/issues and resolving them promptly, turning a customer around from being grumpy to happy is a very rewarding experience. I was also grateful that I could work flexible hours outside school/uni and on weekends, otherwise I might have not been able to get a job at all and support myself at the time.
I think it's difficult to change an industry. Also, nothing stops career changeover.
Anyone who has a complaint should skill up and go for another industry.
Also, compare hospitality industry worldwide, Australian pay is high.
All the TV shows like, MasterChef, My Kitchen Rules and ETC, overly glamourise the industry, which make the average Joe/Joanne decide to take up the profession. And then realise its not all glitz and glamour.
Ask a person with genuine personal interest (not built from all the TV shows and YouTube channels) in the industry, and they will tell you they love it.
Have worked in bars for a decade and it helped during uni as its great extra cash. Bars are a bit different as you don't really need to be nice to people. You just serve them drinks and they be gone! It is long hours but that works perfectly if you need extra cash during other jobs and uni work
Most jobs have a union