Full disclosure, I work for an online wine merchant and just curious as to what people generally look for when they go to purchase. What is most important to you? Gold medals and Halliday ratings? larger discount off of RRP? Well known winemakers? What stands out for you the most in where you buy your wine online and who do you most purchase from?
Vintage being disclosed should be a standard thing. Some wines differ GREATLY between vintages. Which sites are you referring to that aren't based in Australia?
I have always been intrigued by the idea of Naked wines, someone in my family uses them as well as a bit of an alternative to what I send them and they seem to like it.
When I talk about Australians, I look right up the chain and make sure the $ stops here. E.g. Whilst I like Wynns, I know they are owned by TWEGlobal. I don't mind drinking wines from OS but if I am going to drink an Aussie drop it's nice knowing that it's from a winery in Australia having a go and not giving a % of their coin to a big cat overseas.
I wholeheartedly agree! People don't understand the nature of the beast when it comes to Treasury and Woolies buying out a lot of labels and whilst they keep the people on board to produce the wines in the same way that the original family have, it just seems to cheapen the outcome knowing that the big boys are squeezing all of the family owned wineries out of the market. I like the fact that my company tends to deal with smaller producers. Online merchants such as ourselves, Vinomofo, Naked, GWD tend to give the little guys a bit of a leg up by helping to put their wines in people's households all across Australia. If they were to rely solely on Cellar Door sales, it would be hard to build brand awareness, so when we are able to stock their wines and save people a bit of money at the same time, it makes you feel good about what you are doing to help stimulate the local economy as well as help the little guys
@Danswineden:
That is why I think the Naked model is successful, well then won me over anyway. They push the "battler" angle hard and convince people that the funds flow directly to the pocket of the winery owner, before and after the wine is made.
I am off Vinomofo now as it's frustrating with all the black/hidden label stuff. I get that brand protection is important but having to sift through pages of Australian Frequent Flyer forums to find out what it is makes it not worth it. If absolutely no one knew what the wine was, I could take a gamble, but I feel ripped off taking a punt when a select few are making educated choices and getting great deals.
@cymon:
The whole "Black Market" prospect is a bit annoying, we occasionally have "Secret Deals" ourselves. A lot of people don't mind because the special pricing involved it that good. When we do one of the deals though, we are happy to have our customers ring or email us to ask us the identity, we just don't publish it on open forum. The mixed packs we do are good for that because we can place a mixture of quality wines in a mixed dozen and discount the total cost of the mixed dozen by 50-70% off the total RRP. By doing that, the wines are still being discounted, but you know exactly what you are buying. It's a good model to work on. That being said, the guys on AFFF are usually pretty bang on with the identities of VM Black Market deals. RedBigot is also a good avenue to take advantage of if you are bargain hunting. Bestwinesunder20.com.au is also a good site
I try not to stick with favourites and just follow the bargains. As an example I don't like anything at all about Cellarmasters, yet 3 of the 13 deals I have posted have been for them, and I don't like much about WineMarket, but they are the only wine store in my top ten voted for deals.
Personally I like medals that are relevant, independent and I can see the basis for their award; and independent reviews from wine professionals, I no longer trust Halliday ratings, and non-professional reviews are too subjective.
One problem I see in the wine industry is that everyone knows RRP is pure BS, and I think we're much more likely to compare to DCP (Dan's Current Price) as a measure of value. This means sites like yours (which I like) and Naked, which sell wine from smaller wineries that Dan's don't stock, are at a distinct disadvantage.
I am inclined to agree with you. RRP now days is just a measure of how the winery rates their wines. I frequently do blind judging for Wine Showcase magazine and from that, you get to judge the wines on their merit. The most difficult part about what we do, is we are trying to convince people that they want to spend between $99 and up to $265 sometimes on mixed dozens of wine that they might not have heard of. If someone doesn't know how we operate, i.e. get together once a week as a tasting panel and sample prospective products and judge them on value for money and quality, we end up settling on a selection of products that we KNOW are good and therefor are good buys for our customers. Again though, the big problem there is THE AVERAGE PUNTER DOESN'T KNOW THAT. For all they know, it is paint thinner with a label on. We know it isn't, but trust is a really hard thing to earn and a very easy thing to lose. I have a large customer base of people that trust when I recommend something to them, they are getting something that I myself drink regularly and is of high quality and great value, once I gain a customer, I rarely lose them which is good. *If someone ever doesn't like something, it gets replaced, simple as that.
When it comes to Mr Halliday, because he has built himself such a reputation for being THE premier wine writer in the country, people take his word as gospel. Nature of the beast I'm afraid. I implore people to make up their own mind, wine is an individual experience, if we all liked the same thing, there wouldn't be any need for such a diverse range of varieties and styles!
I stick with Vinomofo as you can pretty much always pick up a nice case of wine for $10 a bottle, I tend to look for the James Halliday ratings as I've yet to come across a poor bottle of wine with a rating.
Good point. When wines win trophies and gold medals, it's not for no reason. But that doesn't mean you shouldn't branch out and try some things that might not have 10 gold medals attached to them. If VM is your distributor of choice, have a go at one of the products from a smaller producer without 5 star halliday rating and 90+ Halliday points, you might be pleasantly surprised
I have to admit if they haven't won any awards I will still try some smaller producers, but it has to be cheaper for me to take a look
That's the biggest problem with VM, you can't make up your own mixed packs. I have customers ringing all the time wanting to make up their own packs and we are able to do it and discount the website pricing discretely. Committing to buying a dozen of the same thing that you don't know what it is like is dangerous. Getting to make up your own mixed pack is pretty good though
Yes if I'm not sure about some wines I'd much prefer to buy a mixed pack than have 12 of the same that I don't like
No I haven't but heard it's good, I'm not that fussy when it comes to wine, I'd rather drink it than go to the effort to send it back
That seems like a good way to manage it. What have been your favourites from them so far?
I have been a WineDirect customer for years. Always happy with the quality and the low prices for mixed dozens in particular. It is crazy to compare a price of a dozen xxx wines to the per bottle price. I have been caught many times on other sites buying a dozen pack of only one wine, only to find its not that great. The mixed dozens are great quality at a value price and I have bought many over the years and have no complaints. Also, the WD delivery system is FAST and very reliable. I have no direct or indirect involvement with WD, only as a happy customer :)
Validation from other buyers but the validation has to come from an external site as I don't trust onsite reviews.
I used Naked Wines for daily drinkers as they are super cheap and I have not had a bad wine yet, plus I love supporting Australians and keeping the profits in country.
I track my favourites and get a case when the price is right and put them in cellaring for special occasions. I value the vintage being disclosed when buying online.