Help and Advice - Had Accident and Charged by Police

Tayabchinyoty on 30/01/2016 - 09:40
Last edited 30/01/2016 - 09:53 by 1 other user

Hey guys,
Wanted advice on what to do and what can happen.

Situation:
Had an accident with a parked car
Police was called as the other party didn't believe on my international license
Police took the story and charges were sent on mail

Charges are:

1) the accused on —- road did drive the car carelessly
Road safety act 1986 clause 65

Continuation of charge:

The accused was driving on —- day without being a holder of driving license or a permit authorizing her to drive

Summary of talk with police:
I was driving and was looking at the air conditioning controls and the accident happen

Driving without a license:
Have overseas license but after residency, overseas license is valid for 6 months which I didn't know and no body told me. Even when we got our residency, it was not written anywhere. One has to visit vicroads website for that information

Advice and experience:
Would love to listen from you guys on what would happen, fine or other punishment which I can get
Should I plead guilty or get a lawyer and fight, want this to end as soon as possible
Car is fully insured, what happens to insurance when they find this out

Automotive

Comments

    • franco cozzo on 01/02/2016 - 08:00
      +2

      …was going to recommend driving lessons as well….seems like a good idea if the OP cant focus on the road and has limited situational awareness

  • alikazi on 01/02/2016 - 09:16
    +2

    Why do people ask legal advice here. They only get more blamed.

  • aspirepranesh on 01/02/2016 - 11:18

    As an International student who migrated here and got my Permanent Residency and now a Citizen, I can sympathize with the OP on one thing. When we get our PR, there is nothing on the immigration website that talks about the 6 month rule. But there is definitely a link to the Vicroads website which then explains the process. I was always curious in knowing the process, so I spent a lot of time reading the stuff to know more about how a lot of things work in this country. I understand everyone is busy with their lives, but it doesnt hurt to know about the rules of living or travelling in a country.
    PS: I got my license a week before the 6 month expiry myself.

    Accidents happen to even people with the right license. My understanding is that your insurance would not cover you for this because you are driving pretty much illegally without a license as your International license is invalid to drive after 6 months from getting your PR. But glad your insurance decided to pay up

    My suggestion: Pay the fine and get your license ASAP.

    Good luck.

    • gorge on 01/02/2016 - 23:01
      +1

      Wouldn't you say it's more the country that issued you the international license that is more to blame for not making it clear to you that the license only lasts for 6 months?

      Why would you be told you anything about driving licenses in the process of applying for residency? They're both completely unrelated topics.

      • aspirepranesh on 02/02/2016 - 08:22

        Not really. As per the regulations, australia allows drivers to drive on an INternational license (details clearly in english) from any country on a student visa/bridging visa/work visa/travel visa until you get your PR. thats when the rule changes to 6 months after which you have to have an Australian license. Irrespective of which country you're from, this holds… again only until 6 months of getting the PR.

        Like I said, I blame the OP for not looking into it the license bit after the residency. Sometimes people assume, but atleast in this case, she admits that it was a bad choice. And I dont expect the immigration to keep everyone up to date, but I can tell you, there are a lot of things there are not clearly in black and white with the immigration department. But hey, not every country is 100% perfect. it takes effort.

      • MrTweek on 02/02/2016 - 16:33
        +1

        The licence itself doesn't expire after 6 month. Lots of countries issue licences that never expire at all.
        It's just Australia that declares licences invalid 6 months after you are granted permanent residency.
        So this is very much the same topic.

        If you move to Australia on permanent residency, you need to change over your licence within 6 months. If you come to Australia on a Student Visa/Working Holiday/Temporary Working Visa, you can use your overseas licence for years. Just once you change your visa to permanent residency, suddenly the drivers licence's clock starts ticking. This can very well be 5 years after you came to Australia.

  • Looking4Bargians on 01/02/2016 - 11:24

    Suck it up and Learn the lesson and teach other migrating ppl

  • CLoSeR on 01/02/2016 - 11:58
    +2

    Driving on an foreign licence in Australia is completely legal however once you attain Permanent Residency you have 6 months to apply for an Australian License. FYI I'm talking from a NSW position and it sounds the same as Victoria.

    Everyone I know who has migrated knows this, fairly common knowledge you can't keep driving on a foreign license once you become a resident.

    I'd skip court if I were you, new resident to this country and suddenly you want to be in the court system.

    Great start.

  • Oliver on 01/02/2016 - 13:05
    +2

    You crashed into a parked car because you didn't keep your eyes on the road. You failed to check what your driving license obligations were in this country. Laziness/ignorance of the law isn't an excuse. You crashed into a parked car. You effed up and have no leg to stand on. Move along.

  • Ace26 on 01/02/2016 - 13:14
    1. Given you are asked go to court get a lawyer.
    2. Be prepared to pay the fine and see if you can getaway without conviction recorded on your name (that would really bad and that's why you need a lawyer) and this should your major concern right now.
    3. Insurer might not honour claim so be prepared to cough up cost for both cars. But they might not know your licence situation (so it's upto your own moral here to inform them proactively) but if you make a claim without telling them whole story and insurer later finds out, then be prepared to have no insurance cover for a foreseeable future and possible criminal charges if insurer wants to press charges (another reason to get a lawyer)
      Also some insurers honour claims in this situation but with a hefty excess.
    4. Go to your local RMS or service NSW (equivalent) and organise an aussie licence.
    5. Tell your friends a day family about getting a local licence as soon as getting residency.
  • fozzie on 01/02/2016 - 14:27
    +1

    Sorry op, but you were negligent. We moved a year ago to Oz and swapped licences both I and husband in the first month. It's common sense

  • zeppeybabey on 01/02/2016 - 14:45
    +1

    I agree with general consensus here, in that you should not attempt to "fight" this matter in court.

    Get a lawyer mate, someone who does traffic offences day in day out. Someone who can have a big whinge and cry for you in Court in order to mitigate the damage.

    I'm in NSW, where the best outcome for this situation would be the offender (you) being found guilty of the charges, but the court chooses not to record a conviction against you - which means you avoid a criminal record + license disqualification. It's known as a "Section 10", being Section 10 of the NSW Crimes (Sentencing Procedure) Act.

    It appears the equiv to a Section 10 in VIC would be "Section 8" under the Victorian Sentencing Act - refer to: http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/vic/consol_act/sa1991121/…

    Hope this helps, and good luck at whichever victorian magistrates court you will be attending :)

  • johnno07 on 01/02/2016 - 18:26
    +2

    Ignorance of the law is no excuse for breaking it. Similarly, ignorance of the road in front of you is no excuse for crashing into something. Go to court, pay the fine, suck it up. Welcome to Australia.

  • franco cozzo on 01/02/2016 - 18:32
    +3

    im still trying to work out how adjusting your aircon can result in crashing into a stationery vehicle…..?
    i mean how less in control of a vehicle can you be?

    • bghunter on 01/02/2016 - 18:34
      +2

      Exactly.

  • biltong2go on 01/02/2016 - 19:00
    -4

    @Tayabchinyoty
    Is there scope for you to claim you are not a resident? If you spent any time out of Australia during your "residency", there may be scope for you to claim that you were not in fact 'residing' in Australia. Being a "resident" of Australia is a bit complicated and the definition changes depending on context, it's not necessarily the same as being a "resident for tax purposes", even having "permanent residence" does not necessarily mean you were a resident at the time of your accident. You could be a citizen of Australia but living in Brazil, you come to Australia, stay here for 5 months and have an accident, you could still (I think) claim you were a resident of Brazil.
    If you could show you travelled in and outside of Australia within the last 6 months, you may be able to claim you were not residing here.
    Obviously, perhaps you should speak to a lawyer.

    • MrTweek on 02/02/2016 - 16:35

      No, the rules state pretty clear that your overseas licence expires 6 months after getting PR granted or 6 months after you entered the country on PR. No matter what. You can leave the country on day 1 and not come back for 3 years. Licence is still not valid.

  • Donaldhump on 01/02/2016 - 21:17
    +1

    your responsible for determining whether you need a license or not after becoming a PR. No one is responsible for telling you.

  • eggboi on 01/02/2016 - 21:42
    -4

    OP is pretty clearly in the wrong here, but surely one could argue that the insurance should be valid given the insurance company knowingly took the money for her premium while she was technically unlicensed. you can't say ignorance is no excuse for her, but it is an excuse for the insurer.

    • hayne on 02/02/2016 - 10:57
      +2

      seriously? You don't see the flaw in your logic?

      if she lies or misrepresents during the application process, then it is not "ignorance" on behalf of the insurer. they are entitled to take her representations as truthful and then void the agreement if she has lied.

      Otherwise, in practice, insurers would have to fact check every line of your application. that would drive up the price of your insurance and mean that you couldn't get an instant quote and approval - you'd make an application and wait weeks while they verified every last line in your application.

      I prefer the system where the onus is on me to be honest when I'm buying insurance or getting a loan. I'm not sure why that's so hard.

    • equitygame on 02/02/2016 - 14:56

      The burden isn't on the insurance company to get their customer's licenses for them. We are all adults here, they can do it themselves. And the burden isn't on insurance companies to pay out insurance on unlicensed drivers either. (The moral hazard this would create is quite obvious). The guy was driving illegally, its not the insurance companies fault.

  • gorge on 01/02/2016 - 22:56
    +2

    when you look at air-condition controls you can still see the road ahead. must have been looking down at your phone ROFL

  • Finde on 02/02/2016 - 01:55
    +2

    Speaking as a Victoria police officer, if it is a first offense then I can't see you getting more then a $500 fine.
    As for not knowing you were unlicensed, under Victorian law, it is not a defense that your didn't know the law as there is an assumption at law that everyone knows them (if you are over 18).
    As for the careless driving, well that's pretty self explanatory. You weren't looking at the road and your attention was elsewhere which makes it careless.
    Just be thankful there was no one standing between you and the car and you didn't kill anyone because then you would be facing far more serious charges and gaol.

    • cloudy on 02/02/2016 - 21:59
      -2

      I must say its a rather mind puzzling aspect of our legal system, that once we have been on earth for 6574 days, we are assumed to have somehow miraculously digested the volumes of law enacted by hundreds of years of parliament.

      And when we break them, everyone's seems to have known about that, so obvious, law was broken.

      • CLoSeR on 03/02/2016 - 07:37

        The OP was driving here on a foreign license which is permitted if you are a visitor; doesn't it make sense that once you become a resident you need to get a local license?

        Everyone is given 6 months grace to get this organised.

        • cloudy on 03/02/2016 - 10:31

          Wait, did I mention anything about OP?

          Why don't u reply to my point instead of something else that's been mentioned before. I don't disagree with you, but ur addressing something else.

        • doctordv8 on 03/02/2016 - 13:26

          Deleted. My mistake.

        • CLoSeR on 03/02/2016 - 13:47

          @doctordv8:

          The 6 month period is for foreign nationals living in Australia who have attained PR.

        • doctordv8 on 03/02/2016 - 13:57

          @CLoSeR:
          Sorry - I just reread your post. I did not read….. doesn't it make…. correctly. I did not read the ' it ', and that changed everything you said. My apologies. I have removed my post.

        • CMH on 01/05/2017 - 00:24

          @CLoSeR:

          And also to any Australian resident moving interstate. In which case it is only 3 months.

      • doctordv8 on 03/02/2016 - 13:35

        I find it quite simple, a lesson I learned in primary school, way before my 6574th day. I may not know all the laws and or the answers, but I do know where to find out, the library. So old school I know these days.

        Now it is even easier, Google. Sorry to disagree, but there is no excuse, as I did not know, but I did know to ask the question.
        An international License has an expiry date, simple enough reason to ask the question.
        Visa status changed to Resident, again, simple enough reason to start asking questions. I know I did, and we never had a clue before hand.

        But I fully agree on your last item, way to many experts here on legal matters, but then again hindsight is what it is and we are all different.

  • KaTst3R on 02/02/2016 - 13:19

    Ignorantia juris non excusat

    Unfortunately, the law covers its own ass by having this legal principle which is used to catch anyone who is trying to wriggle themselves out of an offence by claiming no knowledge of the law (even if it is a genuine case).

  • [Deactivated] on 03/02/2016 - 06:31
    -2

    Wow lots of shit advice in here. You need a lawyer. A traffic lawyer will fight for a better outcome than legal aid

  • GalaxyNexus on 03/02/2016 - 10:00

    I don't know about OP, but when I became PR I was super excited to get a proper NSW license. It makes my life easier with the banks and stuff, not having to use my passport all the time.

    And yeah, collect demerit points too… touch wood

    Remember, if it comes to conviction, your PR may be revoked, although it is unlikely to happen for minor things like this.

  • doctordv8 on 03/02/2016 - 13:17

    Apart from the legal aspect, the poor driving moment, the question of why wasn't I told etc etc, and I use experience here as my wife went through the residency and license aspect recently. In the end, if we are smart enough to hold ANY License, we are smart enough to remember everything most likely has an expiry date.

    I do not know everything about everything, but I know how to ask for help. I can not recall how many many times I asked and researched stuff in Jakarta because one I was in a foreign country, I was not familiar with their laws/rules, and I did not read the language. I also used an International License in Asia for 2 years, and I also asked questions when I was over there. But I did not need anyone to tell me to ask about stuff.

    My wife asked me about driving here, so I asked the question when I took my wife to Qld Transport for info on the rules and getting her license here. Because I am smart enough to know it is an official document and like anything we pay for, with a number, it might expire, and therefor OP should of asked the questions herself.

    I am not being cruel and I feel for her, and all involved, but no one was injured, it is only property damage, all fixable. But yes get legal assistance, even for only having someone talk the talk for you, it may help with the courts and the punishment. Don't stress, it will not not be the only law you ever break in your life.

  • Tayabchinyoty on 09/02/2016 - 06:08

    Friends stop fighting with each other
    Thanks for your replies
    will face whatever comes as a punishment
    Only wanted to know wether there would be jail time involved and I got my answers
    Thank you guys once again

    • Baysew on 30/04/2017 - 16:33

      So what happened in the end?

      • tonyjzx on 30/04/2017 - 18:24

        probably got two fines, one for no license and one for neg driving

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