I Want My Son to Repeat Year 4 but Department Of Education Won't Allow. What to Do?

MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 17:12
Last edited 29/01/2016 - 09:23 by 1 other user

Hi

I have reached a dead-end and looking for some help in an area in which some of you might be working or you might have already come across this situation.

My son is in year 4 now ( moving to year 5 this school year and 9.5 years of age as of today) and is mid-Jun born baby. As you know, in NSW the cut-off date for NSW admission is 31-July and if the kid turns 5 years on that day, he can start school (kindy) in Jan.

We, by mistake, went ahead with the option and he started kindy at the age of 4.5. Now we realise this was a mistake we made as all other students in the class are at least 1 year older than my son. Socially and academically he has the status of ‘competent’ but we feel he is struggling. We have been sending him for other tuition class as well which I think is helping him to push himself forward. But I am worried how far I can push him and I am afraid he will eventually breakdown which I want to avoid.

Last year we moved house but not school. He travels an hour every day to his school and I was thinking of moving him to a school nearby. This provided me an option to make him repeat year 4 as well because he is in a new environment and wouldn’t feel much issue with self-esteem or confidence. We already told him that we are taking this decision not because he is bad in studies but to make sure that he is with his same age group which he agreed as well.

Had a discussion with new school but it looks like the policy is against it as they find he is doing good socially and academically. This policy won’t let him repeat even if parents asks for it. I am lost here and don’t know what are my options to keep him at Year 4 itself. A few of options that came to my mind are
1) Join private/Catholic schools where he will be accepted at year 4 itself and then move to public in year 5
2) Send him out of country for 6 months which will force the Department to put him back year 4 when he returns. I don’t want to do it due to other consequences this might bring.

I would prefer to the repeat year 4 itself as repeating beyond this grade is a bit tricky and might impact him. This is causing lot of stress to me and my wife now.

Has anyone been in this situation? And, how did you guys resolve it. Appreciating your advice and thoughts… thanks…

TLDR : I Want My Mid-Jun Born Son to Repeat Year 4 but Department of Education Doesn’t Allow. What to Do?

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Comments

  • ProjectZero on 28/01/2016 - 17:21
    +2

    Socially and academically he has the status of ‘competent’ but we feel he is struggling.

    Why do you feel that he is struggling? If he truly was struggling academically (and possibly socially), I believe a school would approach you and about it.

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 17:27
      +2

      thanks for replying.

      He lacks concentration, very short span of attention and shows very low maturity when compared with his peers. His school reports has direct influence of our pressure on him. also the age difference with others worries us.

      • tinx on 28/01/2016 - 18:38
        +8

        sounds like typical 4 - 5 yrs old ? lol

        mine do that most of the time.

        when you compare with his peers, do you compare with boys or girls ?
        and how mature do you want a 5 yrs old to be ??

        • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 19:13
          +7

          He is in Year 5 at school now @age of 9.5 years. The problem is he has the maturity of 9.5 years but not that of his peers in class who are 10-10.5-11 years age.

        • tinx on 28/01/2016 - 19:23

          @sab2000: ups sorry. read year 4 = 4 yrs old. damn long day.

          at first i was wondering how you discuss things with 5 yrs old boy :)

          saw this article the other day, might help http://wandinyallockps.vic.edu.au/app/webroot/uploaded_files…

        • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 19:51
          +1

          @tinx: Thanks. I also had seen it. Actually, for the last couple days, i have been digging the internet in and out. Sometimes too much of information is dangerous and distracts from taking the decision.

        • garmibear on 29/01/2016 - 08:52

          @tinx: me too! I think the part where OP mentioned his son started Kindy early threw me off and I'm thinking he was 4/5 years old haha

        • xsacha on 29/01/2016 - 11:10
          +3

          @sab2000: I started earlier than most, being a December baby and being in QLD. I was even put up a grade at one point but was put back down due to bullying. I graduated year 12 at 16 and never felt out of place socially or academically.
          Also wouldnt be described as short attention span - I dont think that is anything to do with the work or grade.

        • 0031nek on 31/01/2016 - 02:09
          +1

          @sab2000: you've mentioned one of the options as :

          1) Join private/Catholic schools where he will be accepted at year 4 itself and then move to public in year 5

          I really think you should THINK again and read it again to make sure that you are really aware of what you are going to do..assuming you are and you son is not Catholic already..for the sake of being accepted at year 4, then back to public school in year 5?? or, is it for the sake of YOU trying to get your son having better rank in his class/school?

          Give him, yourself and the school teachers a break..you should see how my parents raised me..

          A policy is a policy, we just have to get over with it.. not trying to AGAINST it.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 10:18
        +28

        My professors used to tell me that. Then again, I had very short attention spans and I'm still immature.

        Not sure if holding the child back would help.

        Not sure if I'm helping. Ooo bargains…

      • BangkokDessert on 29/01/2016 - 16:47
        +3

        I can see your frustration, but just want to clarify if this is an opinion that you have developed, or one that his teachers have developed?

        If it is one that teachers have developed what is there reasoning for not allowing him to stay back a year?

        If it is one that you have developed, have you considered asking the teacher who teaches him how he compares to the rest?

        It sounds to me like you're trying to make a decision that the teachers don't necessarily agree upon. If they did agree to it wouldn't you think it would be their suggestion to hold your son back rather than yours?

        • MondaySleeper on 30/01/2016 - 17:25

          Yes, it was rather my suggestion to hold him back 1 year as we felt he is not mature. Teachers insist that he should go to the next level and they find he is OK

      • shadowarrior on 29/01/2016 - 17:17
        +8

        He sounds like me when I was 16!. Give the little man a break, he is doing just fine. Don't put pressure on scores and marks and academics. Yeah academics is important, but he doesn't need straight HDs to make something out of his life. Let him learn real life lessons, how to be professional, courteous, respect others, punctual, reliable, be a good human being over all…and that will count more than any school or college can teach.

        Let him enjoy his studies, don't make it into a chore. If someone enjoys to do something, he/she will learn more out of it than just being a bookworm. If he can have a good social life, be happy, be a good son and get C, I'd rather prefer him over a socially awkward, stressed out via peer pressure, too scared to have fun kid coming home with straight HDs.

        About a year younger to his fellow class mates, a year really doesn't make that much difference. Age doesn't define maturity.

        • MondaySleeper on 30/01/2016 - 17:25

          Thanks for your suggestions.

  • PJC on 28/01/2016 - 17:48
    +3

    Might a letter from your family GP assist your argument?

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 18:36
      +1

      yes, I am looking that option as well. But what surprises me is the policy Govt has. It looks like we dont want to repair something until something is completely broken.

      • the-mal on 29/01/2016 - 13:11
        +34

        I think it's more the fact that school teachers are trained to assess your son and spend a lot of time with him each day in order to do so. They feel their trained judgement is probably more objective and correct than your parent judgement. And I'd be inclined to agree.

        If multiple teachers and schools have said repeating a grade isn't necessary, then it sounds like it isn't necessary.

        Is your concern primarily around the welfare of your son (eg he's unhappy at school) or is it more about wanting him to be top of the class?

        • Huntz on 01/02/2016 - 11:59
          +2

          Someone in our family is in a similar boat - the teachers have not recommended to repeat class for a Year 3 girl with average grades. She has all possible tuition classes in-home or outside. Some grades have improved but she is constantly catching up and her frustration is showing in other things.

          My key point here was that I doubt the teachers (all mid 25s) have the ability to assess the impact and take some bold decisions on your behalf. I may be wrong here but I think teachers are 'Just trying their Best'!!

        • the-mal on 01/02/2016 - 12:37
          +3

          @Huntz:

          the teachers have not recommended to repeat class for a Year 3 girl with average grades

          Because "average grades" are no reason to repeat a class. Repeating a class is not done to move your child from "average" to "top of the class". It costs significant tax dollars to repeat a child (an extra year of schooling and funding at the tax payers expense). If every parent repeated their child until they were old enough to appear "not average" our schools would implode within a few years. The vast majority of people are "average" - that's precisely why it's the average.

          She has all possible tuition classes in-home or outside

          The vast, vast majority of out-of-school tuition businesses (remember, they're businesses, to make money - and they're pulling in hundreds of millions of dollars each year so are hardly in it for the benefit of the children) target particular demographics (often parents of Chinese and Indian background) and they "teach the test" to try to get kids into selective schools. Problem is real life doesn't have a "teach the test" method. Real jobs don't work that way. Real society doesn't function that way. Sure you can use it to beat standardised tests and make your child appear "better than average" solely because they're putting in hours upon hours a week outside of school just to beat a test…but for what? Does it get them into a better career? Let them earn more money? Make them happier? More socially adjusted? Zero evidence that it does any of that. It's slightly helpful at best, snake oil at worst. And in the meantime it requires a lot of sacrifice by the child - a time in their life they'll never, ever have again.

          Some grades have improved but she is constantly catching up and her frustration is showing in other things.

          Good lessons for the child, that you have to work hard for improvement. That you won't always be "the best". That you can't and shouldn't rely on your parents "rigging the game" (eg forcing the school to hold you back so you appear smarter because you've done all the work before and are older than the other kids) to appear to succeed.

          Book smarts will get a child so far, then they need emotional intelligence. This is built through experience.

          My key point here was that I doubt the teachers (all mid 25s) have the ability to assess the impact and take some bold decisions on your behalf.

          They're University trained to do exactly that. Teachers are not only trained, but they have bountiful resources and evidence based criteria on which to assess a childs development. This isn't some "25 year old" just sticking their finger in the air and guessing. The child is assessed using carefully considered criteria over a significant length of time.

          Also, the average age for teachers in Australia is over 40 years old so your characterisation trying to paint them as mainly young and naive is wrong.

        • Huntz on 01/02/2016 - 22:31

          @the-mal: Great feedback but it seems more like parents better adjust to society norms and let the child experience the hard way out now if they have to be successful. A correction on my part above - they were well below average grades throughout the year. The teachers never had a meeting on their own on any issues and every scheduled parent meeting was to make the parent feel more comfortable that she was doing alright even though she was in the bottom 3-5!

          Everybody expects the best in their child (I hope you have one to understand) - but my comments were not to be the best, but to be an average performer as the rest of her class.

          I have seen many loosing their way of life because they constantly struggled at school due to their parents inability to foresee what type of help was needed or socio-economic factors or the educational structure did not support some special cases. It is as if everyone watched such individuals be wasted and did nothing about it. A dear friend committed suicide this month due to a costly mistake to get better marks ended him behind bars and he never recovered from that shock! He would have always felt intimidated by other high ranking individuals and almost secretly wanted to beat them in something - to an extent he was successful in sports.

          I hire graduates and understand the vast difference between a Grad and an experienced professional - applies to every field I have known. I don't care about the average age of teachers in Australia - too generalised statement as I know the age of teachers at her school and understand their ability to speak up constructively with parents. Her mother is a School Psychologist if you understand the level of interactions happening at home for this child.

          On the same token, I am not suggesting to repeat class but just responding to your points above.

        • the-mal on 02/02/2016 - 09:15

          @Huntz:

          Appreciate the feedback too!

          The teachers never had a meeting on their own on any issues and every scheduled parent meeting was to make the parent feel more comfortable that she was doing alright even though she was in the bottom 3-5!

          The bottom 5 out of 30 kids. And of course this depends on the socio-economic status of the school…is it in a high achieving area? Is the school well above the mean? This is why we have, among other things, standardised testing to help identify students who aren't just towards the bottom of their class, but who honestly need intervention.

          Put it this way - if the teacher intervened and held the child back. Her "bottom 5" place would be replaced by another child. Is that parent also to expect intervention? And when that child is replaced…will the next be intervened as well? For there to be a "top 5" in the class there has to be a "bottom 5". No one wants their child to be in that group, but someone has to be. And it doesn't automatically mean that intervention is necessary.

          Her mother is a School Psychologist

          And as a psychologist she would realise that her training would be overridden by her motherhood in this instance. She can not be professionally objective with her own child - for the same reason she wouldn't be able to professionally treat someone in her direct family.

          I have seen many loosing their way of life because they constantly struggled at school due to their parents inability to foresee what type of help was needed or socio-economic factors or the educational structure did not support some special cases. It is as if everyone watched such individuals be wasted and did nothing about it.

          Likewise there has been research to show that:

          • Not only does the "authoritarian" parent style not lead to greater academic results
          • It also leads to a significant rise in depression, suicide and social problems

          Being supportive of children doesn't mean viewing them as "wasted" if they don't achieve superior results.

          A dear friend committed suicide this month due to a costly mistake to get better marks ended him behind bars and he never recovered from that shock!

          Firstly I'm incredibly sorry to hear that. Suicide is horrible to go through as a family or friend of those who pass. But doesn't this also open your eyes as to the negatives of placing so much pressure on academic success? Why would someone feel that academic success is so important that they break the law and end their life over it? What a horrible place to be in.

          And this is precisely my point. Putting so much emphasis on academic success leads to more negatives than positives. I grew up in a family of teachers, I was supported but never pushed. I was allowed to be a kid, to play, have fun, and my parents were always involved with my education but never crossed the line to being over-involved. I was accepted into selective school but I didn't go because I didn't want to leave my friends.

          I now work in a job I love in a highly technical field and am earning in the top few % of salaries in Aus. And what is the number one key to me getting where I am? It's not academics in the book sense - most of the stuff I learned in Uni was technically redundant within a few years due to the pace of my industry. The most important thing was Emotional Intelligence - people skills. Knowing how to negotiate people, manage personalities, stress, work/life balance.

          All those things I learned because I was allowed to be social. To exercise those muscles, because I had parents who knew that the value of book smarts was only worthwhile if it was combined with people smarts, and that a happy kid was way more likely to succeed in life than one motivated by fear of failure.

          I hire graduates and understand the vast difference between a Grad and an experienced professional

          I also hire quite regularly. In fact I had 4 interviews yesterday and another 2 to get through today. They are highly technical roles, and I value their technical skills greatly. But the deal-breaker will always be hiring someone with enough emotional intelligence to ensure they can work successfully in a team and keep the positive culture of the organisation going.

          Academics aren't and shouldn't be made to be everything. Being happy and well adjusted is so much more important to leading a happy life and reaching success in whatever field sparks your passion. That's my 2c anyway.

      • dp1 on 29/01/2016 - 18:08
        +7

        Please don't put the GP in this position. Unless there is a diagnosable mental health problem what is the letter going to be saying? (other than repeating your own opinion)

        • Musing Outloud on 30/01/2016 - 14:20
          +4

          The GP should recommend seeing an educationalist specialist which will involve your son completing various capability tests to assess and rank everything from vocabulary understanding to maths and social skills.

          This will carry much more objective weight than a GP's or a teacher's subjective opinion and if reflective of your perspective would be fact enough to sway the NSW DoE.

          However, be quite prepared for either outcome though. One thing the specialist will not do is hold back a capable child, however if your son has had coaching assistance this would weigh more towards your opinion but not be the only factor.

          Also your child at year 4 is young. Myself and both my daughters were on the young side too. I got over 90 as did my oldest daughter and my youngest is doing better than either of us. All 3 of us did not not shine in primary school. The point being that being on the younger end of the primary age cohort is not a predictor of poor HSC and uni performance.

          Nevertheless, we did have other issues with NSW DoE and teacher/school capability and took this same approach I am recommending here. The result was a change to a specific catholic school (I'm CofE and my wife is Catholic) where academic catch-up assistance was fully available. A support which has been increasingly cut within the public system.

          In our case the school and DoE said our oldest daughter needed to repeat, but the specialist said she was intelligent and did not need this disruption. Turned out the specialist was right and the DoE was wrong.

        • MondaySleeper on 30/01/2016 - 17:28

          @Musing Outloud: Thanks for sharing your experience.

      • paulransom81 on 01/02/2016 - 18:33
        -1

        Do what you want to do. Your the parents. Your best qualified. Repeating will put the child on a level playing field. If it's what you feel inside is best than do it. Don't be pressured by big bro.

  • chill on 28/01/2016 - 18:23
    +74

    No do not repeat.

    These things all balance out.

    Also tone down on all the tutoring at that age, instead focus on the social such as team sports or a hobby such as martial arts or something (anything really).

    This will develop the maturity, social and self esteem, which will have a flow on effect to overall educational results/life.

    There is only one important academic year at school. That is Year 12 or the year that they leave.

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 18:34
      -4

      yes, i do understand Year 12 is the turning point but reaching there is the main concern. If he doesn't do well, he might not be able to get into a selective school or something like that. My worry is if putting him in a wrong class would be the reason for such a scenario. He is attending Karate and music classes but found not much interested or self motivated.

      I happened to talk with 2 persons who have been working with children for around 20+ years. When i shared my concern their response surprised me. They do acknowledge that current age criteria is wrong and starting at early age is a wrong decision by parents. I thought this is the chance for me to correct before it get worse. It might a bit difficult for initial 2-3 months, then life should be back to normal for son - this is what i was hoping for.

      There is a national advocacy to increase the school intake age - http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/principals-call-fo…

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 11:22
        +5

        putting him in a selective school won't help him mature socially, they're full of socially awkward nerds. they can be beneficial academically, but this isn't always the case. Also, if your child is considered one of the smartest in his normal school, the move to a school where he no longer is one of the smartest can have an impact on his learning and his desire to learn

        • diddy50 on 29/01/2016 - 15:28
          +3

          Not sure why you are negged. The gifted and talented, and advanced kids are most of the time the socially awkward. That's true.

        • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 15:32

          @diddy50:

          I assume i got negged by the socially awkward nerds. I'd say around 80% of the kids at my school were like that.

        • diddy50 on 29/01/2016 - 23:59
          -3

          @terminal2k: it's like that still…

        • droptester on 30/01/2016 - 11:05
          +9

          That's clearly such a generic stereotype. A selective school will often have the same type of kids who are at any other school.

          Back on topic, you shouldn't put so much pressure on your kid to attend a selective school, especially from an early age. There's more time once he enters high school to start preparing for the tests.

        • Save Medicare on 30/01/2016 - 14:53
          +9

          Strong tall poppy syndrome in this thread. Being academically advanced doesn't automatically make you socially awkward.

          This is not some video game where if you allocate 90 stat points to intelligence you only get 10 to allocate to social ability.

        • BestofOZB on 30/01/2016 - 15:36

          @terminal2k: Haha upvoted for your humour.
          I think people in general don't like hearing kids being called awkward, even if they are.

        • matthado on 31/01/2016 - 17:39
          +1

          This is actually really true. I myself attended a selective school in years 11 and 12 as the school was only a senior high school and whist I really enjoyed myself and thought it helped me study and be prepared for uni, I know a lot of people struggled with not being the smartest anymore and in fact left and went back to their old schools. I'm from Sydney and my selective high school was a public school, very laid back, much like a uni with the environment. The majority of the people at my school were not socially awkward (of course there are a few) but the majority were really outgoing and just wanted to have a good time with their fellow peers. This may be though because my school was public and not private I'm not sure.

          However though even though I enjoyed myself, selective high schools are not the be all and end all. Perhaps your son won't want to attend a selective high school and would rather attend a school where his friends that his made in primary school are going to attend.

      • badwolfpart2 on 29/01/2016 - 11:48
        +2

        selective schools aren't necessarily better for maturity (lots of nerds are there as well as pressure from parents).
        Other poster is right, there's only one year that matters, grade 12, and the marks he gets from that.

        I skipped a grade when I was younger and the teachers told my mum that I had concentration issues - this is true, the work was simply too easy and boring for me. Is it possible this is happening to your child? If he's smart perhaps the issue he needs to be challenged more.

      • wyrmy on 29/01/2016 - 13:52

        Just throwing my anecdote in.. I was a full year younger when I started Year 7 (skipped grade 6 when changing countries). The age difference might be harder to manage in grade 5-6, but I do think it balances out in high school. No-one even knew I was younger until Year 11-12 when kids started getting L plates.

        Depends entirely on the kid and your parenting though. I had pressure from parents, but it didn't stress me out so much that I felt like I missed out on activities and general social development.

      • syousef on 29/01/2016 - 20:36
        +11

        I can tell you mean well but you're all over the place with your thinking.

        You're worried about your son coping with the pressure of being a year ahead of where you'd like him, and even are concerned he might have a breakdown. But you want to put him in a selective school? Do you have any idea how much pressure they are? If you think year 4 or 5 is going to be a lot for him to handle imagine putting him in a position where he is in the bottom 1/3rd of the class even after spending most of his after school hours on tutoring. Because that is a real possibility…and that's if he meets the entrance requirements which include aptitude testing he won't be able to just muddle his way through. To do well at a selective school the child has to have a hunger for it as well as a natural aptitude for the subjects he or she is learning.

        Instead of telling him what you've decided, why don't you find out by asking him what he really wants? Help him to mature by making him - the primary stakeholder in the decision - take responsibility for it. It doesn't matter what you want for your son. It matters what his abilities are, what effort he is willing to put in and what he wants.

        As for the government having a policy against repeating, it's no surprise. More students repeating means more cost to teach them - 14 years instead of 13 years for your child.

        You may have been better off sending him to school later. You may not. You'll have to live with the fact that you can't take all paths and know where they would lead. Right now it sounds to me like he might be better off where he is. But seriously, talk to him about it.

        • Jackson on 30/01/2016 - 23:53
          +4

          Well said, I wrote 2 long posts and didn't post them because they were too brutal, but I think you covered it.

          OP, it sounds like you are living vicariously through your child. You may not have had the opportunities he has, and you want to mould him into something. You need to let go and just support you child. Love and support, that's it. Not putting ideas in his head that he should repeat. Unfortunately now you have already said it you can't take it back.

      • Swim1976 on 01/02/2016 - 10:48

        I was put ahead and started school just after 4 and like your son was 'academically competent", generally i was regarded as smart but an under performer, bad concentration etc. In my opinion being a year younger had a hugely detrimental impact on my schooling particularly in my teen years.

        I wasn't as mature as my classmates, didn't connect well with my peers, being in with kids a full year older and more developed at the start of high school lead to bullying. I then struggled in later years high school and ended up leaving without finishing year 12. in my 20's I did mature age entry into uni but in my opinion if not for being put ahead I would have been able to go the traditional route.

        you are doing the right thing, the school system doesn't want the hassle of changing - if you think this is better for him then he will very likely be more confident, happier and a better performer by being with peers his own age and doing coursework targeted at his proper development level.

  • leiiv on 28/01/2016 - 18:32
    +1

    Let him play all day long and let him do as he like, don't push or tell him to study.. (for that one year you want him to repeat)

  • cDNA on 28/01/2016 - 18:35
    +14

    I'm a young adult who started school when I was 4 and was born in July. I was the youngest in the class, laughed a lot in class, zero maturity and kids often made fun of me for being a year younger and not being able to compete with them in swimming and athletics carnivals. I would always lie about my age to compete against my friends anyway.
    I noticed you didn't mention his teacher. Talk to her and the principal. As hard as it is for you to understand, they know better than you.

    Tutoring once a week is enough. Put him into extra-curricular activities like music classes or a sport like soccer. He'll learn to become more independent and mature. Tell him about people like me if he is worried about his age. As soon as we turn 18, we realise how being younger is better and has its advantages.

    I ended up realising my potential in late primary school and in high school. I am now an academic.

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 18:42
      -3

      Thanks…. He is aware of it and even have friends in higher and lower class. He was OK in doing Year 4 again when i told him why i am taking such a decision. I wanted to make sure that he knows he is not dump but a boy with equal capability of his same age group peers.

  • oscargamer on 28/01/2016 - 18:41
    +32

    as a parent of a 6yo and 8yo, it can be difficult to let others make decisions for our kids, but, and don't take this the wrong way, you need to seriously back off

    let the teachers do what they do

    our kids are very different creatures at school than they are at home

    i was too

    my 2c

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 07:06
      +1

      Thanks and I appreciate your suggestions.

    • maidingaling on 29/01/2016 - 18:52
      +10

      Teacher here. Your school probably made the best choice for your child as the cons probably outweigh the pros of your child repeating the school year with the information you have provided.

      • saine on 29/01/2016 - 21:45
        +18

        Another teacher here. I agree. Schools weigh up these scenarios very carefully, and don't make these decisions lightly.

        Repeating material that he is already competent in is really not a good idea. He could become bored and disengaged, an attitude which could carry through to following years. What you want to encourage in a child of these years is questioning, curiously, a love of learning. Repeating the same year, when they already grasp the concepts, could squash that.

  • iamnikon on 28/01/2016 - 19:21
    +14

    I honestly don't think it's necessary, unless he's having real trouble academically. Tutoring should be able to supplement that. The age difference seems large now, but once high school hits, it's not a barrier at all. I graduated high school two years ago and we had kids who had just turned 17, and some who were 19.

    Also, I hate to say it, but your son may resent the decision if he repeats. Even if he repeats only for the sake of age, as a kid, it's an embarrassing sore spot to say you repeated a year, and that's something that might permeate throughout his entire school life.

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 19:47
      +1

      Thanks for the advice. Just wondering if kids will recollect the things happened in 9.5 years age. Also, he is moving completely to a different school.

      • iamnikon on 28/01/2016 - 20:34
        +6

        I definitely still have some memories that left a bad taste from when I was that young. A different school will probably help him kind of forget the fact that he's repeating, but I remember how much kids back then singled out silly things and he might become "that new kid who's repeating Year 4".

      • johnno07 on 29/01/2016 - 10:45
        +5

        I still remember a lot of my time in grade 5 - and that was 15 years ago. I would absolutely remember being kept down a year - and it would have been shattering.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 11:23
        +5

        he'll always remember that he repeated a grade, also all the kids he grew up with will remember it too. He'll end up at high school with kids he used to be in classes with who are now in the year above, and they will make fun of him for it. kids are cruel bastards

      • harley on 29/01/2016 - 13:29
        +5

        My 2 cents: I had to repeat Kindergarten because my parents put me in 1 year early. I was a July child. Though it was not anyone's fault I still sometimes resent that I had to stay back. All the opportunity I lost if I could have graduated a year earlier: a year earlier to work and to save, for me meant being able to get into property earlier, travelling earlier etc. And for a long time, I would not admit that I repeated Kindergarten because of the stigma. In my family, my niece and nephews actually want to graduate earlier. They've been able to skip a year because of their excellent academic result. They are maturing fine.

  • skinner on 28/01/2016 - 19:37
    +8

    He's a kid, let him be.

    If school taught me anything it is that school means nothing in the real world, especially at that age. If you keep pushing and pushing he might end up doing really well, he might also be miserable trying to keep you happy, or alternatively snap and just hate you for it.

    Also did he ask to do karate and music or did you make him? If he's not enjoying them then ask what he would like to do. Team sports are always great but there's plenty of other options; scouts, woodworking, chess or computer clubs etc.

    • MondaySleeper on 28/01/2016 - 19:49
      +1

      Thanks, I didn't compel him to learn Karate and music. He asked for it and when i came to know he is losing interest, i used to motivate him

      • [Deactivated] on 31/01/2016 - 09:56

        I was put ahead one year in primary school, so lived through what he is.

        The age/social thing I'd recommend more team sports/activities. Parents always pushed me to do solo activities (violin, swimming, study/tutored) and I think that is one of the reasons I still can be considered socially awkward at 30 (being a software engineer probably has something to do with it).

        If he is only interacting with large groups of people at school lunch breaks and class groups, that's why he's struggling socially. Especially if he's at a boys only school.

        Re the maturity issue, it'll sort itself out. Just putting him in a new school might fix it, as his new peers will treat him differently.

        That's my 2c anyway.

  • TheAviator on 28/01/2016 - 20:59
    +15

    I think it's a bit excessive to be freaking out over the abilities of a ten year old. School results are completely meaningless at that age; there are plenty of people I know who have gone on to be highly successful despite doing very poorly in primary school. I would tone down on the pressure and save all the stress and worry for 7-8 years time in Yr 11/12.

    Also for the suggestion of sending him out of the country for six months, how is sending him away from school meant to help? If anything that sounds like it would make things worse!

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 07:10
      +1

      Thanks. one good thing is that he is not bad academically and we give enough support wherever possible.I am also aware that sending him out of country is not a viable option at all.

      • sm10 on 29/01/2016 - 09:41
        +11

        If he's academically doing well I don't get why a parent would make their child purposely held back at school? That would be really frustrating for the child to have to do all the same grade 4 work that they did the year before. He wouldn't actually be learning anything new but would probably get very bored and act out - making himself seem more immature when in actual fact he just doesn't have the support to continue to mature. When I was in school there were kids that were younger in the same class but kids that would be like 2 years older as well. Age doesn't matter. Stop stressing your child for absolutely no reason and let them be

  • djmatt24 on 28/01/2016 - 21:26
    +7

    Just doing the maths though…
    If he was born mid June, that would only put him 6 weeks behind the youngest in the class, right?
    So the kids aren't that much older. Just UP TO a year (and 6 weeks).

    If you kept him down, wouldn't he become one of the OLDEST in the class?

    It seems like 6 of one, half a dozen of the other. For all the hassle to have him repeat a year, is it worth it.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 07:14

      Thanks. with the current NSW system, the age gap between youngest and the oldest would be 1.5 years. A jun/Jul baby, if delayed by 1 year at the time of admission, would be of the optimum age in the class that he will start exactly at 6 years.

  • airzone on 28/01/2016 - 21:26
    +1

    Put him in a catholic school for a year, and you may find that it will be beneficial for him to stay there until end of yr 6, then put him back into public.

    Sending him 6 months overseas is the wrong decision. It will likely have far reaching repercussions.

    As to whether or not he needs repeating, you will also need to consider the eternity of second guessing yourselves if you don't.. Realistically it probably won't have any impact on his performance at school at this age.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:27
      -1

      thanks, looking at that option if we finalise to go ahead with repeat. I am expecting a call from Dept with more details soon.

  • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2016 - 22:01
    +2

    I understand your anxieties. My youngest parent boy just started prep (aged 4 years 10 months), they've placed him in the prep class, not prep / grade one. I know people bag our school system but I have faith in it, I turned out ok. Let your kid enjoy his primary schooling years, it's a time to have fun, build relationships, and just be a kid. Don't over burden him with expectations, kids are tough, they sense our anxieties, frustrations, expectations and at the age of nine / ten that's a lot to comprehend.

  • AlanJ on 28/01/2016 - 23:26
    +2

    You probably did make a small — but not major — error of judgment back then when you started his schooling at four-and-a-half, but you're not Robinson Crusoe here… most parents would have done something differently if they had their time over again. But I can't agree with your plan to "set things right" by suddenly putting on the brakes and telling him he has to repeat. There's no real way of knowing that this will get you what you want… it could have quite the opposite effect and cause him to lose motivation. The teacher and Principal say he's doing well academically and socially; chances are, they know what they're talking about, and chances are there are a hundred children in the school who started as early — or almost as early — as your son. Follow the educationists' advice, and content yourself with having made your concerns known to them… and ask that they be watchful for any "danger signs" that he isn't fitting in as well as you'd like. Then relax… you seem to have dome everything else right — exposing him to Music and karate — so you shouldn't now feel the need to do anything quite as drastic as taking him out of the country, or even have him change schools. Either course puts a lot of added pressure on him, and the emphasis, at this stage in his life, ought to be that learning is natural and fun, not something that has to be planned like a military campaign. Good luck!

  • abovethelimit on 29/01/2016 - 00:19

    Think from another angle….he could be the next sheldon cooper or doogie hoswer MD. Let kids be kids, worry abt the repeat year when he is in secondary and old enough to understand the implications arising out of your decision. It could very well be a joint decision by that time which works out in both your favor rather than your decision alone. What if, God forbid….your kid has to miss out on school for a lengthy period of time due to unforeseen circumstances…he is now fallen way behind his peers and be the oldest in his class which is far more distressing than being the youngest. Again, worry about it in secondary college when he is mature enough and aware of the world around him. Good luck in your decision.

  • brokenglish on 29/01/2016 - 00:46
    +24

    You've probably made your decision.

    You might think it's OK for your kid, but your kid is going to waste a year of his life.
    I can't imagine what I would feel should my parents ask me to repeat a grade back in primary school (when there's nothing wrong with me socially and academically).
    You already have the school and the dept of education's opinion/advice/policy of not recommending your son to repeat Year 4.
    What else are you looking for?

    If the situation is the other way round (where your son is asked to repeat Year 4 by the school and the dept of education, and you are doing everything in your power to not let your son repeat Year 4), then I would totally agree with you.

    But if you're thinking so far as to send your son overseas so he can repeat Year 4 "lawfully"… I am the one who is at lost.

    You said this has been stressing yourself and your wife?
    Have you had a proper discussion with your son asking him exactly what he would feel about repeating Year 4?
    Don't tell him about all of your opinions that you think he's struggling and all.
    Just ask him if he wants to repeat Year 4.
    He is the one going to school and study.
    His answer should be your decision, not from something that you felt.

    You should be speaking to an education adviser or something, not here.

    I believe the OzBargain answer to your question would be a straight no.
    We would find the easiest, shortest, and the most efficient path to complete a grade (jump a grade if need be).

    UPDATE

    I had my school teacher read this and she wants me to write that you're nuts

    • brokenglish on 29/01/2016 - 02:25
      +13

      She added,
      "How exactly is asking your son to repeat Year 4 going to solve whatever struggling problem you think your son has? Sure, the next Year 4 he is going to take would be easier as he already learnt it before. What's stopping you from telling your son to repeat Year 5 next because you think your son might be struggling? Struggling is OK, what's not OK is forcing your decision upon him. Let your son make his own choice and decide for himself if he's actually struggling and need to repeat Year 4…Godspeed~"

      • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 07:38

        Thanks. I consider this as a good advise.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 07:48
      -4

      He didn't resist the idea when we discussed eap when we said he has to change his school to the one near to home. He also knows that most of the kids are elder to him.

      The irony here is this. I had a talk with some who are in educational field for 20+ years and they also sympathise with us and wish he (and other kids with near cut off date DOB) had been enrolled 1 year late. Their suggestion was to move to another school should I decide to repeat. And repeat as early in the grade as possible. Even one went to that extend to say that he hopes we would advice other parents to do a late start for such kids.

      I will again talk to him today and take his inputs.

      • Meconium on 30/01/2016 - 21:57

        You're crazy to make him repeat.

  • Geewhizz on 29/01/2016 - 07:37
    +9

    He lacks concentration, very short span of attention and shows very low maturity when compared with his peers.

    If he's doing well enough academically, having him repeat the year is not going to address any of these issues. In fact, if he was wasn't struggling with what they covered last year, sitting through it again is probably just going to have the opposite effect to what you're wanting to achieve, because he'll be bored.

    • diddy50 on 29/01/2016 - 15:33
      +2

      Children grow up - learn and mature with time. He is a late bloomer. Leave him be.

  • kanter on 29/01/2016 - 07:49
    +4

    Don't be one of those parents who think their kid is a genius / has ADHD / the whole world want the kid to fail. I did all my school years with people at least one year older than me and it made no difference to me or to them.

    Let kids be kids! He has short attention span and he's immature? He's not even 10 years old, what do you expect? He'll sit at the table playing scrabble for hours when he's 80!

    If the school say he's fine, he's fine. If he doesn't mind going to school, and he's getting good marks, he's fine. If he starts to say he's feeling sick every morning and doesn't want to go to school, then there is a problem. Otherwise he's fine. Stop putting pressure on him and let him be a school kid

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:08
      -5

      He loves to go to school more than he likes to be home. What surprises me is the fact that most of the teachers accept it would be better to start late but Govt takes no action to mitigate this. There is a call for making late entry mandatory. I wish if we had been given the information that most of the kids will be 1 year old and being a cut-off born baby, parents have the option to enroll next year. When we contacted the school, we were told he can join now. If we go to a pharmacy, they always ask and make u aware of your choices about the branded or generic medicines, but not situations like this….. I am not saying its schools fault and I take the responsibility if what I did was wrong.

      • MrTweek on 29/01/2016 - 15:28
        +7

        So, he's doing well at school, socially and academically and he loves going there too.
        Yet you say he's struggling?
        What kind of tuition did you send him to and why?
        Sorry, but this sounds to me like you see a problem where there isn't actually one.

        Lack of concentration and a short attention span isn't necessarily bad as long as he's doing well otherwise.
        I don't see why being surrounded by older classmates would be the cause for this, nor why repeating a year would do any change to that.
        He'll "learn" stuff that he already knows for the entire year. That'll keep him bored and most likely make it much harder for him to concentrate.

        • diddy50 on 29/01/2016 - 15:34
          +1

          Want a genius? Expect too much from a 9 year old?

      • andy19363 on 30/01/2016 - 08:34
        +7

        He loves to go to school more than he likes to be home.

        Ever wondered why?

      • cuppaciano on 30/01/2016 - 12:41
        +2

        It sounds to me that you think your decision/missed information makes you think your kid missed out on what should have been better.

        Tbh it is less of a deal than you thought it is right now (especially if you have been Googling a lot on this).

        What is done is done, and from what you said and others who've been through the same when they were young, the kid will turn out just fine. A bit of tough experience from other kids or studies won't kill him, it is a trial-and-error learning curve.

        Focus more on how to develop him socially at home (e.g. camping, more responsibilities at home etc).

  • nikhi24 on 29/01/2016 - 07:55
    +6

    It almost seems he's not the most popular, social or top scholar in class winning awards so you want to "fix" that/him by thinking up drastic ways to repeat year 4. By all means help him become a better student and a happy kid but other than that accept him for who he is or you will have much bigger problems on your hands.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:13
      +2

      Yes, i am in the future as well and hence worried about the implications. And trying to mitigate in all the possible ways.

      He is not a popular boy and neither I have that desire to make him such forcing him too much. Mostly my worry is would he been better if he was with his same age peers and am i making a mistake by not doing it. hence all these things started. If repeat is going to be a problem, I will stay away from it.

      • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 09:30
        +1

        It is actually quite astonishing how children differ developmentally according to their age. It might be worthwhile reading a current book about development through the child lifespan and understanding some more about what 'most' kids are 'like' and how to respond to them.

        A fantastic book by child psychologist Dr Louise Porter (http://www.louiseporter.com.au) called 'Parental Guidance Recommended' might be helpful/interesting to you, or anything by Dr Michael Carr-Gregg. Both of these guys are Australian, current and well-regarded in the field of child psychology.

        • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 10:01
          +2

          Thanks. Book-marked the page and will be buying the book soon.

  • cat4u on 29/01/2016 - 08:35
    +3

    invest more time in your child, stop holding him back!

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:15
      +2

      Thanks. yes, i reckon its the best we can give to a child.

  • orbitalpaul on 29/01/2016 - 09:05
    +2

    @sab2000 Some very good friends of ours moved their son away from an expensive North Sydney school and put him into a local Catholic school and had him repeat a year (I can't recall which one it was). Their reasons were very similar to your own and he thrived in the new environment, having gone from being the lower end of his year age range to one of the higher. Their experience with this was significant in our decision to delay sending our eldest son to school until the following year (he has a June 30 birthdate). Some people on the forum have pro opinions and some have against opinions but my advice to you would be to do what works for your child and works for your individual situation. You may need to move him to a different school to achieve your aims though. Hope this helps

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 10:02

      thanks, Appreciate your suggestions.

  • readyState on 29/01/2016 - 09:14
    +3

    I was one of the youngest for my year at school. Was strictly average till year 9 after which I began to slowly improve till I became one of the top students(grad, post grad).
    Let your son be. These things level out as he grows older. Focus on finding a good high school that will suit him and also challenge him. Rest will take care of itself.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/01/2016 - 09:23
    +6

    I feel that we place far too many demands on the time of children. We want to pour as much knowledge and skills and information into them as we can while they are young, but they don't end up enjoying life at all. At nine years old, he should still be having a great deal of unstructured play time. The extra school lessons plus the music and karate plus homework leave very little down time. I also fail to see where you all have time to spend together as a family. This is so so important.

    My suggestions: ditch the extra school lessons unless he is struggling academically. Don't make him repeat a year. Ditch one of the extra curricular activities and ask him to find one that he likes that he needs to stick with for the whole year. If concentration and attention span are his issues, perhaps visit (without him) a child psychologist that specialises in this area that can talk to you about activities and stuff that can help him with this.

    It might be as simple as having him read a book to you for half an hour before bed every night. You guys are spending time together, you will have greater visibility over his concentration issues because you will be right there with him.

    He is also getting to an age (puberty is coming!) where he is going to need a lot of strong guidance about his decision-making and life choices. He needs a role model or a mentor (which could easily be one of his parents but better to be someone else instead) that he can look up to and seek advice from.

    Those kinds of considerations are just as, if not more, important than getting into a certain school once he is older. I understand that in certain families, the school you go to and your academic performance are considered vital, however a child's emotional, cognitive and intellectual development are equally important. The child must have balance among these three things.

    Of course it's your kid so you make the choices, but those are my suggestions. Finally, remember that you can't do education 'at' a child. It has to be an engaged process tailored to your child's specific needs, and involving the parents as well.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:42

      Thanks. I really appreciate.

  • ronnknee on 29/01/2016 - 09:32
    -5

    as they find he is doing good socially and academically

    peers in class who are 10-10.5-11 years age

    Looks like you could repeat Year 4 as well.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:41
      +1

      Well, the situation is that we are sending him to private classes and this 'good' result could be because of that. We started seeing a wearing-out pattern - not showing much interest, just ignores us, low attention etc. So our concern is - if the kid himself is not ready age wise, we can make him look 'good' for some time before its broken down and I don't really want to do it. Also worried about the age difference and if that would bring any drawbacks later….

      I understand, as a parent we sometimes worry too much that we miss big things and concentrate on minor….

      • PlasticSpaceman on 29/01/2016 - 10:20
        +2

        We fell into the same issue - our extra work with our daughter also bumped her results at the school up. If we hadn't done that, then it is likely they would have let her repeat. On the other hand, I am not sorry we helped her as her social confidence was directly linked with her academic performance.

        I'd strongly recommend a private tutor coming to your house. We tried Kumon for a while for our kids, and that was really good (as much as I hated rote learning as a kid, there is still a place for it I believe) but they did get sick of it and the value for them dropped. As much as we tried to tell them it was just to provide them with skills not being taught at school, they didn't want their friends to know they were going as they felt it implied they were stupid as they needed this extra teaching - and they would see a number of kids from their school there so they lived in constant fear of the secret being leaked out!

        The private tutor - if you can find a good one - is brilliant. They can mix up what is being taught, concentrate on areas that are of concern, it is held in a comfortable environment, etc. The kids also seem to relate a lot better with them than with us parents, plus none of their friends need to know! As for ignoring you and low attention span - well, that sounds like a normal kid to me. ;-)

        In hindsight yes holding your son back initially may have been better. That applies to most kids, and in particular with the boys. It does not sound so severe now for your son though, you appear to be trying to do the right things - if he's getting bored/losing interest then mix it up a little and provide some additional incentives for him. Socially, the age difference is nothing and is actually not huge if you stop comparing him with the oldest boys in the group but rather the boys on the left hand side of the bell curve.

        Good luck!

        • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 10:24

          Thanks and I appreciate it….

  • webtonmoy on 29/01/2016 - 09:44
    +2

    Well, my comment probably has nothing to do with your issue, but I felt that I could share my own life story.

    I started grade 1 at the age of 4.75 years. By the time I was in grade 5, I was facing some problems with coping up and the social issues. Other children in my class was more than 2 years older than me, at least. But the principal in my school did not want to let me repeat, despite my parents asking them to do so. It is not in Australia btw.

    So, by the time I reached grade 9, I was doing okay, but not up to the expectation of my parents or myself. So at that time we were stern and I repeated the grade 9 class. It changed my life. I have done really well in my academic career. I do not want to brag, so not putting any details.

    Hope my story can help you in some way.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:49

      Thanks for your suggestions. If repeating and making adjustments, the earlier would be the better. May i ask you if you faced any psychological or emotional issues. I am sure there will be for sometime and time will heal it, esp if its for kids.

      • webtonmoy on 29/01/2016 - 09:53

        Yes I did face it. As it was the same school, suddenly my class mates became my senior, and I am among a bunch of unknown faces! I carried this through all my life thus far. Many of my old classmates read in the same University as me and people found it confusing why I treat my seniors as close friends :D

        It was not a big issue btw. And as your child will be moving into a new school, things could be easier :)

  • 808State on 29/01/2016 - 09:47
    +2

    You haven't provided evidence of any problems associated with his starting early. In fact the evidence is otherwise, as he is being assessed as competent. It seems this is driven by your concerns about your son not receiving A grades so he can get into a selective high school. I think it's sad that, because of this, you would force your son to repeat a year when professional advice is saying it is unnecessary. You also have no evidence that repeating a year would get the outcome you want, in fact it seems otherwise, and that it would all be for nothing.

    • MondaySleeper on 29/01/2016 - 09:54

      Let me be honest here. Selective is a desirable target but not an absolute must. The extra class was to help him if he is capable of it. Also noticed that these Selective schools are filled with kids who attend such classes (90% of them and the rest with inborn extra talents). I dont want him to miss an opportunity in this fast moving world because i didn't help him.

      I come from a background where my parents couldnt afford to such things and had to struggle to be in the place where I am now.

  • PlasticSpaceman on 29/01/2016 - 09:53
    +1

    My daughter was in a similar position….. we contemplated keeping her back but the school wouldn't let us either. In her case she was socially ok, the main issue was academic (mainly reading/comprehension and math) even though the school also said she was fine. Her struggling to keep up with her peers did impact on her confidence which also impacted her socially. Eventually we decided to keep her as is, and we supplemented what the school was doing with more one on one reading etc with us, and private tutoring. From an academic perspective she is now one of the better students, is a lot more confident, and is starting 7th grade today!

    I can't tell you what to do, as this is definitely a personal decision. If he is doing well socially and academically, then I'd be very tempted to leave him at the current school with his current social network, even with the hour travel (I assume that's in total ie 30 mins each way?). If he is socially fine but is actually struggling a bit academically, then spend the money you would have put towards the catholic school to get a tutor for an hour a week at your home (to avoid further travel) - one on one tutoring made a huge difference for our daughter - as well as some of those naplan books you can get at Aldi. Maybe a macbook air and a subscription to mathletics (you get the laptop, but have to do 60 mins of mathletics a week etc etc). Awards for achieving goals help as well - taking to movies, special dinners, xbox game, whatever. Would still be cheaper than going to a catholic school, and less disruptive to him socially. As for the hour travel - it's only for another two years and personally I went to a number of schools, and for quite a few years I was travelling well over two hours each day to get to school and back…. sucked, but I was able to read books etc on the train so wasn't too bad.

    If after all that you do decide to hold him back, then yes I'd go the catholic school option but I'd also keep him there for the next 3 years to avoid further disruption.

    As an aside, and this almost certainly is not the case here, if your child seems to be struggling a bit at school, it's always worthwhile having both their hearing and eyesight tested. Kids can get blocked ear canals - in particular when they get colds - and kids can also struggle with being short or near sighted and not realise they have an issue. Both can impact on their ability to learn at school, and - as with our daughter - if they are struggling to keep up with their peers that can also impact on their confidence and social skills.

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