Doing 2 Hours Overtime before The Shift Start Yet Sent Home for 4 Hours (Casual Warehousing)

LHenryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 10:15
Last edited 26/01/2016 - 11:57

Hey Bargainers,

I was originally rostered on from 5:55am till 2:01pm but i got a text message yesterday asking if i would like to do overtime and start at 3:55am which I gladly accepted considering public holiday rates expecting a 10 hour shift however i got sent home at 7:55. I know the employer only need to give us a minimum of a 4 hour shift in warehousing but considering how i was asked to come in early and do over time then get sent home 2 hours later. I somewhat feel cheated is the employer allowed to do this?

Edit: the text message asked me if I was able to start at 3.55 for an additional 2 hours overtime which I accepted.

When we over time we get a extra 20min break before the commencement of our shift. I was provided this break therefore I assumed we would have a 10hour shift.
In addition the casuals that started at 5:55 got a full 8 hour shift. Whereas us that start at 3:55 got 4 hours

Thanks for reading i hope the community could give me some insight on the issue.

Education & Work

Comments

  • whooah1979 on 26/01/2016 - 11:00

    is 05:55-14:01 your normal working hours? did you start 03:55 on this day? are you employed under an award?

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 11:16

      yes my normal working hours are 5:55 every day mon-sat and today i was asked via text message to start at 3:55
      im not quite sure but i would assume i'm under the Storage and Wholesale Award

      • whooah1979 on 26/01/2016 - 11:29

        I was originally rostered on from 5:55am till 2:01pm but i got a text message yesterday asking if i would like to do overtime and start at 3:55am which I gladly accepted considering public holiday rates

        you're already getting paid 25% above ordinary wage rate and the maximum double time and a half overtime allowed by your award.

        • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:18
          +1

          I know I'm fortunate enough to get the 4hrs but the point I'm trying to make was I was promised 10hrs and led to believe it was going through then to be sent home for 4. Makes me feel cheated somewhat.

        • whooah1979 on 26/01/2016 - 12:25
          +7

          @Henryzzxd:

          this was a minor inconvenience. not worth getting on the manager's bad side.

          you should be getting ~$57p/h. just take it and enjoy the rest of australia day.

        • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:27

          @whooah1979:
          True I'm just abit salty would made an extra 6 hours worth. But I guess having the rest of the day from 10am off is a silver lining

        • PVA on 26/01/2016 - 22:44

          @Henryzzxd:
          you didnt do 4hours you did 2hours overtime and 2hours normal work - they should give you another 2 hours seeing you say a shift is 4hours minimum (dont count the overtime as normal shift hours)

          just ask the manager why but dont expect much.

        • whooah1979 on 26/01/2016 - 22:53
          +1

          @PVA:

          op should get paid double time and a half as per award for all four hours from 03:55 to 07:55.

        • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 10:58

          @whooah1979:
          Yeah that's what I'm expecting 4 hours of double time and a half

        • shadowarrior on 28/01/2016 - 18:32
          +1

          @whooah1979:
          FFS!! I think I am in the wrong industry… :|

        • diddy50 on 28/01/2016 - 22:21

          @whooah1979:

          Wow!!! That's a lot of money!
          Especially for a non technical job.

          Just wow.

        • whooah1979 on 28/01/2016 - 22:26

          @diddy50:

          not really. take your hourly wage and add 25% for no job security. then multiply that rate by 2.5 times for public holiday. now did you get $50-$100 or >$100?

        • shadowarrior on 29/01/2016 - 00:33

          @whooah1979: There's hardly any job security anywhere. Am in IT S'ware development, Darth Vader knows how secure the job will be a 6 months/Year from today.

        • Henryzzxd on 29/01/2016 - 07:50

          @whooah1979: I have an above average base rate for my industry, there's no security but work is very consistent considering our work load is based on the demand of consumers.

  • ozhunter on 26/01/2016 - 11:08
    +2

    asking if i would like to do overtime and start at 3:55am

    Did he actually ask you to do overtime or did he ask if you can come in at 3:55 instead?

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 11:18

      we get it via text message, i see what you mean by start (INSTEAD) which is what was written in the text message However they provided us with a 20min overtime break before the commencement of our shift implying a 10 hour shift considering how our usual breaks are 15min smoko, 30min lunch and 20mins quick break if doing overtime.

      • ozhunter on 26/01/2016 - 11:37

        they provided us with a 20min overtime break before the commencement of our shift implying a 10 hour shift

        Not sure what that break is, but it seems that is was never clear it would still be a 10 hour shift once you accepted to start at 3:55.

        • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2016 - 11:41

          exactly what i see here
          if it said come in from 3.55 to x time i could side with the OP

          as far as i see the employer has done the right thing

        • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 11:54

          When we do overtime we get a 20min break before the commencement of our shift and continue on at 5:55 as a regular shift. Therefore I assumed that it was as there has never been a case of being sent home early if we started early for overtime.

          The text message even said to start at 3:55 for an additional 2hours overtime

        • Lem_is_cool on 26/01/2016 - 12:01

          @Henryzzxd:If it actually said 'additional' I can understand why you're annoyed about it. No idea on what to do though. I assume you're not in a union?

        • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:23

          @Lem_is_cool
          I'm not with the union as we don't get represented since I work in a minority department.
          I have friends whom was discussing with a union delagate and was told if the employer was in the wrong we were entiltled to payment of the full 10hour shift.

  • [Deactivated] on 26/01/2016 - 11:17

    i dont really see an issue here
    you accepted a change of roster
    perhaps you all got through the work quicker than anticipated or perhaps they wanted everyone to experience award rates for their shifts today

    they gave you the minimum of 4 hours so they havent cheated on you per say maybe they just didnt need you for longer than this period as either a cost cutting saving or perhaps other reasons they wont disclose

    not sure but they don't seem dodgy to me granted the whole picture has been painted here from you

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:05
      +8

      I wouldn't of had an issue if I start at 5:55 regular time and got sent home at 9:55. I have an issue because I signed up to start early and accepted 10 hours then get sent home for 4 whilst the casuals who started at 5:55 get a full shift.
      I do them the favour of coming I'm early to get shafted is why I'm abit salty

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:06

      *

  • Ughhh on 26/01/2016 - 11:44
    +4

    Don't see what the problem is. Isn't this the point of casual staff?

    • JimmyF on 27/01/2016 - 22:49
      +5

      To a point, but you don't screw them around on hours like this.

      you give a CASUAL a shift, then you give them that shift. Not have them start, and then change your mind, cutting a 10hr shift down to 4hrs. Thats not on.

      • Ughhh on 27/01/2016 - 23:33

        Perhaps different awards have different rules, but what if there's no work half way through the shift? You get paid for the first ~3 hrs, even if you're asked to leave at 2hrs, but after those 3hrs, employer can ask casuals to leave if there isn't work for them. Part timers and fulltimers stay for the rostered shift, or get leave with pay.

        The only way to know who's right is by looking at ops and his employees contract and award. What we think is fair and favourable doesn't always mean it's the law.

        I would rather do the overtime and go home early, doing less hours for the same pay as others on a holiday

        • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 11:00
          +1

          Legally they need to pay us for a minimum of 4 hours even if we do less. Unless we volunteer to leave early

        • Ughhh on 28/01/2016 - 13:13

          @Henryzzxd:

          Couldn't remember whether it was 3 or 4 hrs, hence I wrote "~3hrs".

          So from your comment, employer hasn't fine anything illegal. While it sucks, you are a casual.

  • MITM on 26/01/2016 - 12:01

    Perhaps he was giving you an early start (and min hours) so you would have the "day" off for Australia Day.
    At holiday rate, would 4hrs = 10 normal rate hours, so you get the day off without losing any $$$ ?

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 12:09
      +2

      I doubt manager actually care for us like that considering we're just casuals in an workforce of 600+. Yeah but I could had 9.6hrs=24 normal rate hours.

  • Henryneko on 26/01/2016 - 12:35
    +3

    You are casual..they only need to give u 1 hour notice to cut your finishing time, provided the total working time is at least 3 hours.

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 13:01

      Well they gave me a notice at 7:50 and told me I was finishing up at 7:55. In the past they have given us less than an hours notice to inform us of our finishing time. There have been cases where they have called us to inform us we are finished then and there.

      • Ughhh on 29/01/2016 - 13:14

        It's only 3-4hrs notice if the shift is 3hrs or less. If you had 5hr shift for example instead of the usual 8, they can tell you to leave immediately.

  • Sage on 26/01/2016 - 15:48

    Bad luck but what can you do.

  • juventino on 26/01/2016 - 15:59

    Not sure about casual. but for part and full timer ( at least where I work), if you are sent home early, you will still get paid for the agreed hours.

    • Henryzzxd on 26/01/2016 - 22:37

      I doubt it for casuals but fingers crossed

      • PVA on 26/01/2016 - 22:47
        +1

        check with fair work Australia.

  • aocal on 27/01/2016 - 08:31
    +2

    A dodgy employer, like many others, who treat casual employees, who do regular hours, like this by changing shifts to suit themselves. I doubt that you will be paid overtime. Lesson learnt - work only your rostered hours. Paid Overtime is usually avoided at all costs. Employees try and help out management which turns out to be detrimental to you. Only employees in this situation will realise your predicament. You probably should have asked the question before you finished your shift,

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 10:59

      My thoughts exactly I questioned the manager and his response was think it like this you got a 4 hour shift with a 20minute break.

      • whooah1979 on 27/01/2016 - 23:05

        that doesn't sound right. the 26.1 was a national public holiday. it doesn't matter if you're full-time, part-time or causal. your award state that a public holidays is double time and a half. you should contact the fwo for clarification.

  • Donaldhump on 27/01/2016 - 08:34
    +2

    next time tey ask you to start early for o/t say no, as last time you lost work and money by saying yes…l
    go back to sleep.

  • [Deactivated] on 27/01/2016 - 09:59

    If you are covered by an award, then you cannot apply just one clause to your situation. All associated clauses in an award need to be read in conjunction, such as in your case - casual employment, hours of work and overtime, rates of pay, rosters, etc,. Once you have this information, you need to apply your shift in question to what the award states is allowable, what should be paid, notification and so on.

    Basically for the hours you worked on that shift, what does the award say you should be paid. The award may (and I don't know if it does) allow an employer to change a shift on minimum or no notice, particularly for casuals, in certain circumstances. Otherwise, it will depend on what your formal rostered shift was for that day and what notification the employer is required to supply, in accordance with the relevant provisions of the award.

    It is probably best to wait until you get your payslip and see what the breakdown is for that shift. As a casual and if you haven't been there that long, it may be best to just keep a record and wait for a more opportune time in the future to raise any concerns, such as if it happens again, or you leave.

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 13:06

      Thanks for the insight I will throughly read over the awards, save the text messages and wait till my payslip before any further action.
      Again thank you for that information it was very informative

  • HADOUKEN on 27/01/2016 - 13:42

    File a grievance with the union.

  • DarkOz on 27/01/2016 - 14:02

    I think it was just something unplanned by your management. It was meant to be a roster change to start 2 hours early with the possibility of overtime instead of a guaranteed overtime.

    If this doesn't happen often it's not a big deal really. Just have a chat with your management so there is no misunderstanding in the future.

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 16:15

      "Hi, are you available to start your shift at 3:55 insted of 5:55 tomorrow TUES 26/01 for an extra 2 hours on the ___ ___? Please reply Yess/No and the date?start time Cheers, ____ ___."
      How else could this message be interpreted? it doesnt happen often but stacked on top of other things it makes me question some of my employers management practices.

      • DarkOz on 27/01/2016 - 16:39

        Does this happen all the time or just this time?

        If this happens all the time then you have a case. Otherwise you are overreacting.

        Whether this happens all the time or not, the best solution is to talk to your management.

  • TheBird on 27/01/2016 - 14:42

    Could what happened be the 3.55am to 5.55am be the mentioned "overtime" paid at the higher rate, which is also part of the 4 hour minimum?

    Could also have been a poorly worded text message.

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 16:10

      Casual dont get 'Overtime Pay of 1.5 or 2 time' unless we have accrued over 38 hours then the first 2 hours is 1.5 and every hour after 40 is double.the exact message says "Hi, are you available to start your shift at 3:55 insted of 5:55 tomorrow TUES 26/01 for an extra 2 hours on the ___ ___? Please reply Yess/No and the date?start time Cheers, ____ ___.

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 16:10

      *

      • TheBird on 27/01/2016 - 20:35

        So no extra pay for working outside your usual hours / working on holidays etc? That's got to suck.

        I would have expected a 6 hour shift by the wording of that text. As being a casual, does that mean you can hold them to that?

        • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 11:03

          we don't get paid extra for overtime but we get all the penalties such as night, arvo, weekend and public holiday just not overtime unless we clock 38houra then every hour after the overtime penalty aplies

  • hotmustardsauce on 27/01/2016 - 15:11

    I would bring it up with your boss/management. I think its a really dodgy way for them to cut down your hours when you were already rostered.

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 16:16

      Don't want to risk getting on the managers bad side. But I would assume the union would have gotten involved ill just have to wait til tomorrow and ask around

      • hotmustardsauce on 27/01/2016 - 16:17

        Do it tactfully/with respect. I think management would rather deal with you than the union.

        • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 16:30
          -1

          nek minut don't get text messages anymore

  • gimli on 27/01/2016 - 19:44

    strike

  • AlisonP on 27/01/2016 - 20:32
    -7

    Wouldn't this be best to discuss with your boss rather than a bunch of randoms on a forum?

  • 2Poor4Ozb on 27/01/2016 - 20:56
    -4

    if you get so upset over this why even bother to stay at the workplace….time to find a new job?

    • Henryzzxd on 27/01/2016 - 23:05

      Pays above average wages.

  • p1 ama on 27/01/2016 - 23:19
    +2

    Don't get what you're complaining about - you're a casual, you're getting paid casual rates, with casual benefits (i.e. extra pay on public holidays). I know there are rules, however, generally speaking, as a casual, you don't have the same entitlements in terms of working hours as full time permanent employees. Ultimately, I think what happened was very fair. What do you expect to happen when there's no work for you? For your boss to just let you stand around and pay you for doing nothing?

    If you want to bum around and get paid for it, time to get a real job and not one where you're being paid by the hour to get things done. You're being paid well for what you're doing.

    • ronnknee on 28/01/2016 - 09:37

      Don't know why you got negged, but I think this is a very reasonable point.

      • p1 ama on 28/01/2016 - 13:09

        You got negged as well, but I +1'd you to make it even. I agree, I think both casual and full time employment have their differences and advantages. You can't really double dip and expect to get the best of both worlds.

        • ozhunter on 28/01/2016 - 13:27

          I think the issue is getting sent home even though you've been given a set time to work for that day. I think it is wrong(even if they are casual), but can't find anything on it.

          When I worked in a warehouse, we got sent home when there was no more work to do, but when we got our rosters, there was never a set finishing time, just a starting time.

        • ronnknee on 28/01/2016 - 15:54

          @ozhunter: My understanding of casual employment is that it is flexible for the employer to adjust the required hours. Just because initially the shift was intended to be 8 hours, it doesn't necessarily mean it has to stay that way (could be shortened or lengthened). If OP was not required for the remainder of the day, then why continue to keep him on the floor?

          We must remember that the goal of all businesses is to make money and cut costs, and not hand money out to employees for the sake of it. It is very understandable for the employer to have skeleton staff on public holidays due to double pay. Clearly the employer had decided that 6 additional manhours for that day were not required therefore had saved the company $300+.

        • illumination on 28/01/2016 - 15:57

          @ozhunter: That last part about not having a set finishing time and only a starting time.. did you ever address that with your boss? That sounds a bit weird.

          or is this because it is known that every shift you will be work for X hours?

        • ozhunter on 28/01/2016 - 16:38

          @ronnknee:

          Agreed, but if there is no work, it should be the responsibility of the employer to only roster on the amount of casuals required.

          I'm not sure if there is an award or something that lets an employer send a casual home anytime over the minimum amount of required hours per shift or likewise if there is an amount of notice required to cancel a casual's shift.

          @illumination:

          It's just always been like that, I don't think anyone brought it up. We go our shifts through an agency. More than half of the people there are on student or work visas. Aside from the managers, everyone else was casual.

          It depends what shift you got. The morning shift usually had a usual time they finish but it was never actually set. The afternoon shift would then stay back until the work for the day was done. Most of the time you had a fair idea when you'd finish, but on the odd occasion you could could finish 1-2 hours over the normal time, and on the rare occasion it would be more than 2.5 hours.

        • p1 ama on 29/01/2016 - 09:37

          @ozhunter: Unfortunately, it's just how casual employment works. It might be unfair that they send you home early, but as long as it's been four hours, they're not doing anything wrong. Being a casual means that you're hired on an hourly basis. You can't (and shouldn't) expect stable hours, which is what part time and full time work is for.

          As a casual, you get certain casual benefits, including generous penalty rates. As a permanent employee, you get different benefits including annual leave and a set amount of pay and hours. You can't double dip and expect permanent benefits whilst you're working a casual job, just like I can't expect to be paid (at all, let alone penalty rates) if I have to come in over the weekend to finish off some work.

          Casual employment and full time employment are different. They're for different people. Casual suits people who are after more flexible hours, mostly students and the like. Full time employment is for people who are after stable hours and pay.

        • ozhunter on 29/01/2016 - 13:03

          @paulsterio:

          I get that, just wondered if the employer had to give you notice when cancelling your shift.
          Overall where I worked it was a pretty good place to work at I guess> Good managers, mostly consistent shifts and did have a pretty good idea when we would finish most of the time.

          Found this which relates to the OP, http://workinglife.org.au/2015/03/13/ask-us-can-a-casual-be-…

      • ProspectiveDarkness on 28/01/2016 - 13:44
        +1

        Probably for implying that casual jobs aren't 'real' jobs.

  • BargainBob999 on 28/01/2016 - 00:47
    +1

    My understanding from previous jobs is that if you are casual, they can tell you bye bye after 4 hours. They have to give you minimum 4 hours for you coming to work. You should find more jobs in the future. More peace of mind.
    Used to have 2 Casual and one part-time jobs once upon a time due to this. Don't be too loyal to work here for ever, because they will cut your shifts all the time.

  • nobro25 on 28/01/2016 - 05:01

    Be an Australian and let it go mate!

  • Mstenchavez on 28/01/2016 - 07:33

    Well, as a casual you met the minimum work of at least 4 hours for that day. So legally no implications from the employers side. But etchically speaking though thats just wrong and your boss is being inconsiderate. If that happens again then maybe its time for you to get a new job.

  • mousie on 28/01/2016 - 08:38

    Ask joe hockey

  • treeman on 28/01/2016 - 10:00

    Are you sure the others that started at 5:55 did the full hour shift? Maybe they were asked to leave after their 4 hours too?

  • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 11:06

    I asked many of the colleagues the next day the majority that started at 5:55 got a full shift while many that started at 3:55 got 4 hours. I found out it was due to over staffing.

    • treeman on 28/01/2016 - 11:16

      Thanks for answering. I think at the very least you should have been able to work your 8 hours so finishing at 11:55.

      • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 14:47

        I was assuming at the very least I would have gotten was 3:55 - 9:55 consider that's two hours overtime and 4hours of my regular shift

  • [Deactivated] on 28/01/2016 - 12:10
    -8

    is your boss asian?

    • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 13:36

      Lolol I work for an international logistics company

  • lost69 on 28/01/2016 - 16:13
    -8

    You got more than the dole amount in a week in 4 hours and you are still pissing and moaning about it. You are a casual. You have no rights. You can be fired in 5 min and a fart and that is the end of that. Get over yourself. $50+ for shuffling boxes around in a dusty old warehouse that should be paying minimum wage. Pffft.

    • PlagueistheCheap on 28/01/2016 - 16:27

      Bitter much? He still did infinitely more work in those 4 hrs than a dole bludger does in a week. Don't compare free money to work money.

    • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 17:15
      +1

      Get over yourself you wouldn't last a day picking at the expectation, who are you to determine how much our work is worth if you think picking fast moving consumer goods for one of Australia's biggest corporations is easy think again ya naive bugger.

      • lost69 on 28/01/2016 - 17:18
        -1

        A robot will do it for free. You won't have a job by the end of this decade. $50+ is ridiculous.

        • whooah1979 on 28/01/2016 - 21:53

          you're in the wrong job if you're not getting paid >$50p/hr as a casual on a public holiday. you may have taken a wrong turn somewhere along the line.

  • Powershopz on 28/01/2016 - 16:27
    -1

    Your employer is legally allowed to do this as it would be in the award covering your industry. While they are legally allowed to do this, it's a quick way for managers to abuse the relationship they have with their casual staff.

    If a manager treats their casual staff this way it will generally lead to negative behavior such as staff: calling in sick more often, being less engaged at work, having lower productivity, etc.

    In a warehousing workplace the amount of work is generally pretty consistent, it's not like their are massive unforeseen demand spikes. If management are competent they should be able to roster accordingly.

    I really hope at least your supervisor/manager apologised e.g "Thank you Henryzzxd for coming in early, it means a lot. I'm so sorry we have to send you home early because it's so quiet, I'll try roster you on for more hours later in the week/month". If not then they are probably pretty incompetent. Or maybe they just don't give a shit about their casual staff.

    Don't complain, take it on board and learn from it. Next time you're asked to change your schedule to help out the business, take this experience into consideration.

    • Henryzzxd on 28/01/2016 - 17:10

      Thanks for being very informative. Work here is pretty consistent 6 day working weeks regularly full shifts. This was just a one of incident that sparked my curiosity considering the situation was out of the ordinary. Yeah the managers say all those nice things but our work teams sees right through his bullshit.
      Again thanks for the advice.

  • Pootie Tang on 29/01/2016 - 21:44
    -1

    Casual - you will get fired. You didn't work the hours so what's the problem. FTE, you have rights, you, have no rights

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join