Plumber Came and Couldn't Fix Some Items, Now Wants to Be Paid for them anyway

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  Impulse Buy on 22/01/2016 - 03:53

  As much as it sucks, I'd just take it as a lesson and move on. In most cases when a service person attends a property there will be a call out (with the exception of initial quoting). You should always be crystal clear on charges and costs before getting any work done at home, or services on cars etc. I always ask what I will be invoiced for prior to any job even starting.

  In my opinion a verbal contract has been established, whereby you requested a licensed trades person (in this case a plumber) to attend your property to fix said issue. The plumber accepted your offer of contract by taking the work and attending your address as requested. A clause of contract stating if the issue could not be resolved, no labor or call out would be charged, was not part of the initial contract offered/accepted. Yes you could probably argue it in VCAT, but I wouldn't bother.

  I'd write off the expense and learn from it when engaging in any service work in the future. Know what you want, be clear with the contracted individual/business, ask for a written quote inclusive of all fees, request a repair guarantee and so on.

  • 

    Jackson on 22/01/2016 - 08:56

    +1

    Usually I would do this without much fuss, the reason in this case I guess I am hesitant is because after the first attempt at installing the toilet, I actually told him what I thought the issue was and he just didn't want to believe me, I think because he didn't want to waste his own time fixing it. Afterwards I persevered with him because he was referred to me by a friend and I thought he should have the opportunity to fix the problem for a job well done. At no point from then (and there were numerous call outs just for that issue) did he confirm that costs would or wouldn't be covered. I get the feeling even if I had it written down he still would have attempted to add this to the bill either way.

    With that said, if a tradesperson does a job for you, should that job not be warranted? At what point to does it stop being part of the job and become a warranty matter?

    • 

      fantafox on 24/01/2016 - 01:02

      Under australian consumer law warranties apply to services and goods. All work is covered by a warrany. If none is stated then it comes under what you perceive as a resonable expectation for a product or service. Eg. If my driveway cracked up 3 years after the concrete was laid I would expect a warranty to cover it. Why- because my expectation of the driveway was to last 10 - 20 years. He can shuffle his cards all he wants, its still on his plate though.

  • 

    oscargamer on 22/01/2016 - 12:09

    cm1505 - couldn't be more wrong

    the only reason the callouts happened was because of the incorrect initial fitting

    everything that flowed (sorry for the pun) from that bad installation (for the first plumber) is free - so long as he was paid for the initial installation

    you have a very strong argument of charging a good proportion of the $1200 against the first plumber…but in reality, good luck with that

    go talk to your local citizens advice people - they should be able to advise

    YOU WILL NEED all the bills from the 1st plumber

    • 

      Jackson on 22/01/2016 - 13:56

      Who are citizens advice? Do you mean fair trading?

      • 

        oscargamer on 22/01/2016 - 15:14

        sure, why not

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  bobbified on 22/01/2016 - 10:06

  +1

  If the second plumber has fixed the problem and can confirm that it was the waste the the original plumber installed (could ask him to document his work on the receipt so that you can use it if it goes to VCAT or the equivalent), then I definitely wouldn't pay the original plumber for the additional times that he came to try fix up his own mistakes (and ultimately couldn't fix!).

  Instead, I'd be annoyed that I had to pay another guy $1200 to fix the original guy's mistakes!

  You could perhaps negotiate with him and pay for the parts that he supplied plus the portion of time he spent during the first visit to install the item.

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  skinner on 22/01/2016 - 12:41

  I would not be paying him for the additional visits either.

  In regards to the "verbal contract" cm1505 mentioned, if he didn't deliver you a properly functioning toilet then he didn't fulfil the original contract anyway. Considering the extra costs you incurred due to his incompetence he should feel lucky he's getting paid for his original work at all.

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  fantafox on 24/01/2016 - 00:54

  Sounds like he screwed up the install and now wants to screw you. I work in the trade industry and the word " impossible " is used alot. Nothing is impossible. From what you have written this guy has made a meal of an install and wants to wipe his hands of it. As people have voted, #2 is the option to go with. And never use this guy again. tell your friends, work of mouth is powerful. Hope you get it sorted.

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  BertieBrown on 24/01/2016 - 08:01

  At the end of the day, in reality, as much as either you or the plumber might like to wave the big stick of the law at one another (not saying that's the case, in either instance in reality); it all boils down to a negotiation.

  Personally, I'd be paying for the work that was performed adequately. To me, that seems reasonable.

  The second plumber has adequately, and, correctly, fixed the problem that you were experiencing, specifically, by altering the waste that the original plumber installed. I.E; the proof is most definitely in the pudding, in this instance, in my opinion.

  Thus, I'd conclude that the work that the first plumber performed was both, not adequate, and also substandard, and so his fee, for the work in question, where not of an acceptable standard, is negated.

  Now, further to the above, my consideration would also be that due to the costs incurred, by you, to specifically repair the inadequate work that the first plumber performed, you would be within your 'rights', per se, to indicate that you would be seeking compensation for those costs directly from the first plumber.

  But, there are a couple of problems, firstly you replaced the toilets that were originally installed, so it could be argued that they were, in fact, the problem all along, as the problem is now fixed, and new toilets are installed, secondly, in order to seek that compensation you'd have to take the first plumber to some form of arbitration.

  But, the other side of the coin is that the plumber would need to do then same to seek compensation from you.

  Based on the experience that you've had, I'm quite flabbergasted that the first plumber is so boldly seeking payment for what is obviously faulty work.

  For reference; I have two plumber relatives, who'd be mortified if they'd done a job for that was either sub-par or didn't work.

  I think it's quite obviously unreasonable for someone to seek payment for something that is faulty, for which they're not able to rectify.

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  Jackson on 24/01/2016 - 23:11

  Hey just thought I would update you. I ended up paying the bloke, mainly because the person that referred him to me listened to him and thought I wasn't seeing both sides of the story. The friendship I have with this person isn't something I would put a price on, so I told him the whole story, explained that I know I am right, but that I would pay anyway. There was a bit more to it, he had billed me for about 500 bucks of things that I did myself (fitting off taps and connecting my dishwasher etc) which he removed, but I did end up paying him all but a hundred bucks for the unsatisfactory work.

  Having said that I have learned a few lesson s:

  1. Negotiate hard on a fixed price, and try to have a good idea what the parts and labour should cost ahead of the negotiation
  2. If you get a referral try to get someone who has done the job for that person that he otherwise doesn't know. Just because someone does someone a favour doesn't necessarily mean they will treat another customer well
  3. Don't give anyone 7 chances to fix something, if they come a 2nd time and it's not fixed write them off, keep your money and they won't mind because it won't be that much
  4. If you can, just do the job yourself I think I have learned enough that in the future in a house I would do it myself

  Thanks ks for all the suggestions and support, it's extremely appreciated