US lotto superball question

Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 21:10

Hi all,

I have a question for the lawyers-to-be of the ozbargain community. In the heat of the $1.4bn jackpot in the US, I wonder if I ask a friend in the states to purchase the ticket for me and I transfer him/her the money. Before I ask, he/she has no intention of buying. Then if it turns out to win a large sum, say 50 grand up to the jackpot. He/she denies any association with me. What are my chances of getting any money?

All proof I have would be a conversation with him/her on a messaging app, the picture of ticket that he/she sends me and the money transfer receipt.

P.S. I know we can purchase tickets here in oz, but at 3 times the price, my ozbargain senses tell me no :)

Poll Options

  • 172
    No chance mate
  • 1
    You can dispute and get a little share of it
  • 1
    You can dispute and get half
  • 0
    You can dispute and get more than half
  • 4
    You can dispute and get full amount
Gaming

Comments

  • plmko on 13/01/2016 - 21:14
    +1

    LOL, you know the answer to that question.

  • Car-la-la on 13/01/2016 - 21:22

    forget your friend, you can buy your tickets here:
    thelotter.com

    25% tax if u win anything - but that is standard in the states

    • Clear on 13/01/2016 - 21:26

      Then our tax if you decide to dump it all in Aussie bank accounts.

      • Car-la-la on 13/01/2016 - 21:27
        +6

        Australia doesn't tax lotto winnings… regardless whether you win australian lotto or international lotto

        • Car-la-la on 13/01/2016 - 22:33

          @Clear:
          Umm no…

        • Clear on 13/01/2016 - 22:52

          @Car-la-la: Sorry derp moment. I was thinking of something relating to withholding your TFN for whatever reason.

          Or maybe I was thinking of the tax you earn on interest.

        • Clear on 14/01/2016 - 13:40

          @Clear: Yep definitely the tax on the interest earned. You will get taxed a lot by the interest on that money even if you were to split it.

    • Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 21:30
      +1

      Thelotter.com is still in the grey area
      lottoland.com.au is legit, according to news, $10.50 each ticket

      • cypher67 on 13/01/2016 - 23:09
        +4

        Lottoland is not a ticket into the lotto in the US. Lottoland allows players to bet on the results of official lottery draws from around the world. Lottoland take out insurance against these bets, guaranteeing players are paid out in the event of a win. But at the cost of a ticket, pretty outrageous.

        • lainey13 on 14/01/2016 - 10:31

          Thanks for the headsup. With all the publicity I was very close to buying a ticket… you just saved me!

        • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 10:42

          The lotter model inspires more confidence than the lottoland one. You get an actual ticket and winnings are paid from an actual pool of money that already exists.

          And Lotter's website actually works!

        • cypher67 on 14/01/2016 - 12:19
          +1

          @shaybisc:
          Riddle me this. If you were one of the agents from TheLotter and you are holding a billion dollar ticket in your hands and your job is to cash it in and send someone else the money. Legally you own that ticket, however it is your job to give it away. Legally that person shouldn't be entitled to the money. What do you do? I know what I'd do, I'd cash in that bad boy & lawyer up like crazy. Even if I was TheLotter owner, I'd be tempted to shut up shop and do a runner. We are talking Billions here, unless you have that original ticket in your hands you have a battle on your hands to see a cent of it being a non-american.

        • shaybisc on 15/01/2016 - 07:14

          @cypher67:

          You have to present the ticket in person to claim the prize for the big prizes and the ticket doesn't have a Lotter employees name on it.

        • Serapis on 15/01/2016 - 19:01

          @shaybisc:

          If what you're saying about Lotter is true…

          It's a breach to US federal law to act as an agent for someone to buy a ticket and receive a benefit + also might be in breach of state regulations depending what state the ticket originated from.

          May also invalidate ticket.
          https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1301

    • dogboy on 14/01/2016 - 12:51

      thelotter isn't selling any more tickets to the US Powerball due to demand.

    • bargdebarg on 14/01/2016 - 19:56

      Hey Car-la-la u getting one?!?

      • Car-la-la on 14/01/2016 - 20:28

        Purchased one, didn't win.
        which i guess is lucky because you wouldn't see me at that Japanese restaurant on Saturday if i did win $2+ Billion

        • bargdebarg on 15/01/2016 - 18:10

          Ha-ha you goose

  • Flow220 on 13/01/2016 - 21:25
    +2

    It's up to $1.5bn now… could even reach 1.7 before the draw. I think your question has been asked by quite a lot of people around the world… there are some US lawyers who said that the only way to make sure is signing up a formal contract, listing all the details =\ Even USA doesn't have official online lotto sales, probably to either prevent scams, or prevent computer systems to buy up all the possible combinations.

    One option would be that if you trust your friend…just promise him/her half of the winnings if it does happen. If your friend is half decent, he/she won't bother stealing everything from you. After all, half of the winning is still a considerable amount of money.

    Another option is asking him/her to 'mail' you the actual ticket, it is the safest way, but incurs more cost and will give your friend the impression that you don't trust him/her.

    I don't think it's worth too much trouble for a 1/292m chance at winning the jackpot =x Option 1 might be better…

    • Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 21:41

      Re: mailing option, I think I trust my friend more than Auspost :D
      Thank you for info tho, esp that part about online lotto sale, i ve never thought of that. Like how many combinations can there be? :/ is there any math whiz on our forum?

      • Flow220 on 13/01/2016 - 22:08
        +15

        The rule is choosing 5 balls from 69, then a matching powerball out of 26. So the number of combinations is basically the number of ways of choosing 5 from 69, then multiply it by 26.

        calculation is (69!)/((69-5)!5!) * 26 = 11238513 * 26 = 292,201,338.

        so 1 in 292m is the odds of winning the jackpot.

        one ticket costs 2 usd in america, so it only takes about 600m to buy out all the possible combinations (except you don't have enough time to do it), for a shot at 900m after taxes….but if at least one other person also hits the jackpot, the split will kill your 'investment'

        this is all basically saying that someone 'should' win this time :P

        also…for the sake of comparison, australia's powerball jackpot odd is about one in 76m, oz lotto is one in 45m.

        • Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 22:29

          Thanks bro hahah thats very entertaining to read!

        • dr on 15/01/2016 - 13:40

          Your calculation is slightly flawed by assuming that the prize pool will remain the same after spending 600m for all the combinations. Jackpot amount would increase by 30-40% of 600m amount (let say roughly by another 200m before taxes). Splitting the winning two ways would nevertheless kill 'investment' although leaving slightly smaller hole in the pocket (let say 50-100m). Splitting it three or more ways would definitely hurt… :-)

  • ChillBro on 13/01/2016 - 21:29
    +4

    OP, I absolutely love your optimism.

    • Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 22:34
      +1

      From what I hear, the optimists rarely win. Its those who buy the tickets and forget about them that are usually the winners. But then they cant find the tickets lol

      • gimli on 15/01/2016 - 17:02

        you need better hearing aids mate.

  • cypher67 on 13/01/2016 - 22:35

    If you need to ask then you already know the answer

    • Azn310 on 13/01/2016 - 22:41
      -1

      I actually thought I could get compensation if I sue him/her. You know how they are allowed to sue everyone for whatever reasons in the US. They go rob a house and get stuck in there, hungry and thirsty for a few days, they sued the homeowner. Better yet, they sued Redbull for not giving them wings as advertised.

      Its just beyond standard logic over there imo, so I'm just curious :D

      • cypher67 on 13/01/2016 - 22:49
        +10

        I wonder who could afford a better lawyer if they just won the jackpot?

        • Azn310 on 14/01/2016 - 02:31

          Lol good thinking

  • Goldberg on 13/01/2016 - 22:52

    $2.1 Billion now. That's insane! Had to grab 3 entries, so i'm in with a chance?

    • Azn310 on 14/01/2016 - 02:32

      Did u grab via the online outlets or through friends like me? :D

      • Goldberg on 14/01/2016 - 06:52

        Paid a premium via Lottoland as I don't have any mates in the US. I doubt I'll make any news one either if I happen to scoop the jackpot (crosses fingers)

        • unco on 14/01/2016 - 06:57
          +1

          Did the site struggle to load for you?

        • cypher67 on 14/01/2016 - 09:14
          +8

          Even if you do win, you wont see a cent. No insurance company could afford a 2 billion dollar pay out. Lottoland are gambling that no one will win and if they do will just declare bankruptcy. I'm disgusted that news outlets are promoting them. You also dont get a cent if you get all the number but 1 number which would normally yield ~$1m because you have bet on a specific outcome.

        • Goldberg on 14/01/2016 - 09:19

          @unco: sure did! Kept refreshing for around a half hour and all was good. That was around 10 o'clock last night though, I'd say the site would be getting absolutely hammered now 😁

        • dazweeja on 14/01/2016 - 17:27
          +2

          @cypher67:

          Lloyds of London - which currently underwrites Lottoland as far as I can tell - made a pre-tax profit of almost $6bn (AU) in 2012. You are basically saying that Lottoland are lying and that the government granted them a gambling license without doing any due diligence. That may be the case but you haven't presented any evidence to back this up.

  • chumlee on 14/01/2016 - 07:21
    +1

    Best way is to get your friend to buy your lotto ticket and then scan it and email it to you stating in the email this is your ticket he/she purchased for you with your money.

    Not 100% going to save you but gives you some legal standing

  • maximum on 14/01/2016 - 07:40

    Not sure about everywhere but the lines on the news looked horrendous . I think pay the extra here save any hassle.

  • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 08:59
    +1

    So if you buy a tcket from Lottoland and got the winning numbers you are essentially trying to get an insurer to pay out a billion or two. Good luck with that.

    • Ryanek on 14/01/2016 - 10:42

      What if they took out 20 insurance policies at 50 million each?

      • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 10:46

        I can't see any reason to buy from Lottoland and not Lotter, other than a first time freebie.

        The lotter model inspires more confidence than the lottoland one. You get an actual ticket and winnings are paid from an actual pool of money that already exists.

        And Lotter's website actually works.

      • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 11:05

        That would not make me any less nervous.

        "NEARLY 2,500 Lloyd's of London Names have received letters threatening legal action for failure to pay overdue syndicate losses.
        The threat comes as the latest figures from Lloyd's show that more than 5,000 Names have failed to meet their debts to policy-holders."

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/lloyds-threatens-…

        That's an old article but it's still the same story. Underwriters issue policy on an event that is 99.99% certain not to happen and it does happen- and they can't pay.

        http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/lloyds-threatens-…

  • Mr BoMBAStiG on 14/01/2016 - 09:22

    Lottoland give you one free PowerBall US ticket for signing up. No risk, especially since I doubt they would end up paying out the jackpot.

    • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 09:33

      503 Service Unavailable

      No server is available to handle this request.

      • Mr BoMBAStiG on 14/01/2016 - 10:13

        Yeah, most Aussie newspapers wrote articles saying that you can enter via that site. Half of Australia is probably trying to get a ticket right now through lottoland.

        • cypher67 on 14/01/2016 - 12:25
          +1

          I cant believe how stupid people get when so much money is involved. Lottoland is the real winner here. They will be multi-millionaires with no risk of being out of pocket. Anyone who buys a ticket from them have ZERO chances of seeing a cent. And in the event someone wins through them, there is no insurance company in the world that will be able to payout 2 billion dollars. Come on people, apply some common sense

  • EG1991 on 14/01/2016 - 09:36
    +2

    Good to see some people actually mentioning how Lottoland works can't believe they are granted a license in Australia when we are known for problem gamblers. Lottoland are gambling on people not winning and if by chance someone does they will most likely not understand it will be an insurer that pays them which as stated early is highly unlikely. You aren't technically buying a ticket into the US draw you are betting that your numbers will match up to the US Powerball numbers and if they do Lottolands insurers will pay you.

    I am actually hoping one lucky Australian wins and the whole process of how it works gets exposed!

  • shaybisc on 14/01/2016 - 10:52

    The weird thing I notice about those mega lottery winners in the US and the UK too is that the winners are paraded in front of the cameras. That is insane and would make your life hell. Why do they do it? Is it a condition of winning?

    • Ryanek on 14/01/2016 - 11:03

      There are only six states in the U.S that let you maintain your anonymity otherwise winners are made known to the public. Crazy right.

    • Jack42 on 14/01/2016 - 14:04

      They dont have the craps in a bucket thing other countries have.

  • Donaldhump on 14/01/2016 - 12:49

    dont out urself in the situation.

  • ilikeradiohead on 14/01/2016 - 13:21

    The US Federal Government has not legalised gambling, it is a matter for the States. Technically, you can only purchase a ticket if you reside in the State. If your friend bought you the ticket on your behalf I do not believe you would have any recourse as you're not permitted to buy the ticket in the first place, but IANAL, so YMMV.

    Source: http://www.powerball.com/pb_contact.asp

    • shaybisc on 15/01/2016 - 07:32

      That's interesting … and confusing. Lotter is recognised by US Powerball- they give you a link to Lotter. I assume that people who got Lotter to purchase their ticket have won big prizes and been paid out. So it looks like a technical illegality that hasn't been tested yet? I would hate to be the test case.

  • richmond12 on 14/01/2016 - 13:47

    I bought some tickets just then, i think they were $14.50 per line

    • jelko on 14/01/2016 - 17:22

      So that $43.50 down the drain, right? There's one thing more idiotic than a lottery player, and that's a lottery player who uses Lottolan (or any other site like that)

      • richmond12 on 14/01/2016 - 17:59

        oh whoops i just read these posts. lol yeh i regret buying it now, just saw the news and went for it lol. oh wells

  • Speckled Jim on 14/01/2016 - 14:16

    Paypal them the money.

  • RocketSwitch on 14/01/2016 - 14:25

    You don't get a free ticket from Lottoland, Australians are ineligible.

  • wei13 on 14/01/2016 - 16:12
    +7

    I might be different, but my ozbargain senses tell me that for every ticket I don't buy I am giving myself a 99.9999…% chance of saving $15. (For those who don't think in terms of dollars that's 8 whole Eneloops)

    • Azn310 on 14/01/2016 - 21:16

      Could you please not rub salt into others wound lol

  • jelko on 14/01/2016 - 17:23

    What's 'superball'? Are you sure your mate is buying the right ticket?

    • Azn310 on 14/01/2016 - 21:17
      +1

      Sorry! I keep mixing up powerball with superbowl

  • kima on 14/01/2016 - 18:18

    why didn't you just buy one yourself?

    • Azn310 on 14/01/2016 - 21:18

      I didnt trust the lotter.com
      Lottaland, as many pointed out, is pretty much a scam
      Can't afford a flight ticket to the states just to buy the lotto

      Not many options left

      • kima on 16/01/2016 - 00:42

        they gave you a free ticket

  • unco on 14/01/2016 - 22:34
    +1

    Got credited my payout for selecting the correct powerball number through Lottoland.
    I guess I should be happy with that haha.

    • [Deactivated] on 14/01/2016 - 22:39

      same

    • James1976 on 15/01/2016 - 10:16

      What amount was it?

      • unco on 15/01/2016 - 18:46
        +1

        An amazing $5.70, I'm unsure of what to do with my life now that I'm a powerball winner.

  • SlickMick on 14/01/2016 - 23:34

    Firstly, I don't understand why anyone who understands probability would ever buy a lotto ticket.
    Secondly, if you think you're in with a chance of winning $1.4B, would not the premium of paying for your own ticket far outweigh the cost of potentially having to fight a friend for it? Or if you don't think you're a chance, refer to my first point.

    • Azn310 on 15/01/2016 - 22:48

      I dont always buy lotto, not even when the prize go up to 100 mil here.. But when the prize exceed 1bn, dont u think its fun to be part of it?

      • SlickMick on 16/01/2016 - 01:36

        No. IF I won, sure that would be fun, but when I lost, that would be devastating. Therefore, I will never buy a ticket.

  • spy on 15/01/2016 - 06:19
    +2

    OzBargainers don't do lottery, not when they're told you have one in 292 million chance of winning. Unless you're a dumb a$$ and an utter fool and a tool whose living in a fantasy world, harbouring false hopes and desires.

    • Azn310 on 15/01/2016 - 23:08
      -1

      Why do you have to win to enjoy something?
      Why do people watch the socceroos at world cup when their chance of winning the cup is 1%?

      The friend who bought me the tickets is a good friend of mine. We had a good time catching up and picking the numbers and waiting for the results. One thing leads to another, he's gonna help me purchase a property in the US. I think its worth more than the amount I paid for the tickets.

      • SlickMick on 16/01/2016 - 01:41

        I might watch the socceroos and hope to see a good match or even just to be supportive, but the question is would I put money on them. No, I wouldn't.

        I don't have an issue with you buying a ticket, but it does make be question your right to count yourself among ozbargainers.

  • Serapis on 15/01/2016 - 18:31
    +1

    Short answer: Probably not and also not a good idea.

    Evidence: Good luck proving that they bought it on your behalf. Technically not your ticket as they purchased it.

    Regulations: even if above is proven, it may land you in trouble. This varies depending on the state your friend bought the ticket in and whether he/she gets a benefit from it.

    A number of US states expressly do not allow another person to purchase lottery tickets on behalf of another person, esp if they benefit from it (eg California).*

    *Source:

    CA AG office: Opinion No. 98-1103
    - Read page 2 quoted section

    And possibly breaches US Federal law. Carries max penalty of 2 years imprisonment.**

    **Source:

    http://www.legalmatch.com/law-library/article/lottery-lawyer…

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/1301

    • Azn310 on 15/01/2016 - 23:14

      Thank you for the links. This is what I was hoping to learn. I never knew that some states do not allow purchasing the tickets on behalf of another person.

      • Serapis on 16/01/2016 - 00:46

        If you're interested in this stuff, there's an ongoing case in Australia heading to Supreme Court of VIC soon that I'm following:

        This guy, Gary Baron apparently went into a Powerball syndicate with 14 workmates and took the $16.6 mil in winnings for himself, claiming the winning ticket was a separate one he bough individually. From the looks of things, Tatt's contract is with whoever purchased and cashed the ticket, not with whoever else was allegedly involved.

        I'm assuming with Gary Baron and the 'powerball 14' situation, Gary's coworkers never saw the actual ticket so I'm interested in how their lawyers would argue the syndicate ticket was the winning ticket.

        Technically in a similar situation, your friend (if they were dishonest) would be entitled to the winnings at first and it would be up to you to prove you had an agreement with your friend and that they broke the agreement. Would be an uphill battle as your friend would have access to millions to pay legal fees whereas you'd be stuck. There are ways to stop him from accessing the money but not easy to get those orders. Read Mareva Injunction.

        Here's one of the many news articles on the Gary Baron case:
        http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/tattslotto-syndicate-sues-…

        2016 update:
        http://www.theage.com.au/victoria/lottery-syndicate-rejects-…

        • Azn310 on 17/01/2016 - 14:04

          That is very interesting indeed. A tricky situation with lots of money involved. I really want to find out the decision from Supreme Court VIC. But I assume when you enter a syndicate, there is some sort of written agreement involved like a memo of understanding? So the other 14 workmates would have a good foundation to sue Gary on?

          On a side note, I dont think 16 mil would last Gary that long. What if by the time court decided in favour of the 14 workmates, Gary's already spent half of it?

        • Serapis on 17/01/2016 - 16:00

          @Azn310:

          With the case I'd assume they have it in writing because that part doesn't seem to be in dispute, just no evidence to show their syndicate entry was the winning one.

          Yup I'd assume they would try get that injunction to stop him spending all of it. Otherwise Gary could splurge all of it so even if they win, it'd be all gone or out of reach of the court and it'll all be for nothing.

  • drfuzzy on 15/01/2016 - 19:39
    +2

    You will have to pay tax on your winnings if you play US lotteries so factor that into your calculations.

    Before someone flames me - I can assure you this is correct.

    Joe Hachem won the world series of poker as an Australian and was obligated to pay US taxes on this. He was not entitled to the tax credits under double taxation treaties as Australia does not tax gambling winnings. He also was not considered to be in the business of gambling (despite being Australia's best known "professional" poker player) in part due to the element of luck involved in poker.

    You can find the private ruling on the ATO website for further details.

    • Serapis on 16/01/2016 - 11:48

      Yup US charges tax on lottery winnings, something like 25 - 40%.

      ATO doesn't charge it as they categorise it under 'Windfall gain'

  • momov3 on 17/01/2016 - 14:51

    Any Oz Bargainers who won anything from the US Powerball please share your good news and joy with us.

    • Azn310 on 20/01/2016 - 02:35

      The winner is probably lottoland, imagine if they sell 500,000 tickets in those few days, they would have gotten 5 million, minus small prizes payout and admin, publicity and server costs, maybe they pocket 4.5 mil?

      Runner up is the media, each pocketing 100k :D

      All figures are assumption, it could be lower or higher than that.

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