Hi everybody,
My friend recently got an internship offer from a recently established company in Australia. She has been asked to market the product and will receive a fixed percent of the end sales revenue. This is in addition to a base salary. However, this base salary is around $5/hour! During negotiation, the employer said that this salary is fixed for all the marketing interns and that along with sales incentive, it should be enough to cover her living costs which is very unreliable and absurd imo. Can somebody advise us on what our possible options are? What rules govern the wages of sales incentive jobs? And can we bring up the fact that $5/hour is much less than the minimum wage even though there is an incentive during our negotiations? We haven't signed anything as of yet.
Thanks a lot for your time and advice.
Marketing Job Offer - Paying $5 Per Hour
Last edited 27/12/2015 - 12:57 by 1 other user
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Thanks for the link. Will have a read and forward it to her.
Just don't accept the offer? Not worth fighting when you don't even work there yet!
Yes, she could do that but this job is perfect in every way (as in the work she does is what she sees herself doing in the future as well) except for the pay. Of course, money is an important aspect but so is the experience from this internship. We might have to deny the offer ultimately if the pay is poor.
If she kicks up before they accept her, who's to say they'll even bother agreeing to hire her, or that they'll treat her well?
Just not worth it by the sounds of it.As far as I can tell, the employer really needs her because she is very fluent in Japanese and they need someone who knows the language well so in that way, she does have some leverage. However, we have not been able to exploit that to get higher salary.
Tread carefully. I am aware of one particular marketing "business" that appeared to be particularly flashy, had its interns paying substantial sums for an unrecognised "qualification" and otherwise had all sales people on peanuts promising massive commission. It was, in essence, a massive Ponzi scam. Insolvency practitioners were appointed. Those interns, and the customers (who had paid substantial fees upfront), were burnt.
She should ask the very simple question - If business is booming so well, why should she bear the risk? Why wouldn't they just increase her base to at least the minimum wage, and reduce the threshold before bonuses are paid? Particularly when the operators will have a much better idea of the business' financials…..
She should run away, and never look back.
Ooh. Thanks for this Kipps. If the employer asks her to pay even a cent, we are dropping it and running. However, nothing of this sort has happened yet. And yeah, I will definitely be very vigilant when it comes to how much she is being paid and what work she is doing. This company is Japanese actually and they have been quite successful there and in Singapore but are now looking to establish here in Australia. Considering their success in these countries, this pay is very, very poor but given the current job scenario, we really don't have many other options.
@DrPotato: She can donate her time for $5 an hour if she wants to, while she looks for a more stable role. Japanese company or not, there is absolutely no giri involved these days. She is a commodity, they are profit driven. Her well being is not their concern
Internships really do seem a bit of a grey area. Some pay you a proper wage, others pay you nothing at all, then some like this company are paying next to nothing.
Businesses are fully aware how much value young people place in internship experience and take advantage of it. I guess it's really up to your friend, does the resume experience from this internship make up for the meagre pay? If it doesn't, just reject the offer and keep looking :)
Thanks Aviator for your comments. Yes, the resume experience is a priority but until and unless the commission is good, she can't even pay her rent and survive here in Australia with this pay. We are looking and applying to other places atm but for now, need to seek some advice on this. Do you know what rules (if any) apply to internships? Thanks.
is your friend an international student about to graduate? is taking this job a way to extend her visa?
Yes, she is an international student and she just graduated a few weeks ago majoring in Linguistics. She has applied for temporary graduate visa but that is going to take time and for the bridging visa, she does need a job.
"Recently established company", run away now - these guys are no likely to hang around for long before the Government catches up with them leaving everyone out of pocket and then reopening up with a slightly different name. I would be reporting them to the authorities and finding somewhere else.
You could sign any contract in the country claiming that you'll be paid $5 per hour, but that doesn't make it any more legal than if I hired a hit-man and made them sign a contract claiming they would not be charged with murder if they killed someone.
A lot of people might not realise that signed contracts don't - and never will - supersede the laws of the land.
Your friend could simply accept the offer of $5 per hour, and at the completion of the internship go to the FWO and lodge a claim for what would likely be thousands of dollars.
Finally someone who understands this concept and says it out aloud.
It is the same with terms and conditions of a business - the laws of the land supersede them no matter what terms and exclusions businesses would like to be valid.If you are considered an independent (or sub) contractor you are not entitled to anything. Also, the company can just elect to go broke when someone reports them (probably a $1 company so they don't care).
Alternately, they could just back-pay the people that raise a complaint (then give them no more work) and continue to screw over the rest. Still a good deal for them.
Too much of this sort of thing going on.. by engaging with these sorts of people you are helping entrench it.
e.g. company illegally doesn't pay penalty rates.. then govt says nobody relies on penalties and removes them for everyone.
Thank you KaptnKaos for your reply. That makes heaps of sense. However, my friend would not want to lodge a complaint with the FWO after her internship. She is too nice to do that. Might reconsider this as the internship is coming to a conclusion.
Just politely decline and walk away
Essentially the job is minimum wage and based on sales performance. If your friend doesn't do well, she will be burned.
Does she want to get into marketing or sales? They are easily confused as one. This sounds like a sales role. Working for free in a marketing department somewhere reputable or even at a marketing agency will probably fare better in the long run than being associated with a "recently established" sales scam.
Also keep in mind that career centers at most universities still help you if you've recently graduated, don't have to be a current student.
It is a marketing role as far as we can tell. We have asked for clarification on the duties and responsibilities but they are yet to get back to us probably due to the holiday season. She does have to do a lot of Social Media Promotion along with other similar roles such as creating promotional material.
And yes, we will be seeking advice from University career center as well for this. Thanks for your help.Agreed. From the OP's description, this doesn't sound at all like a marketing role - it's pure sales.
Having worked in marketing for 10 years, the only instance I've experienced where a colleague receives "a fixed percent of the end sales revenue" is when they actually work in the sales department.
That was my first impression too. But I think at this stage, they can only offer its employees commission from their future revenue. At least, that's what I have inferred. This is, of course, absurd as a company should have sufficient capital if trying to expand overseas.
is this your friend's first job? if yes, then your friend should be thankful for getting a job in their field and paid for their inexperience.
mw for a market research trainee is $18.11 and a probationary traveler is $18.18. $5/hr is ~27.6% off the mw. can your friend produce enough leads per hour to cover the mw? if they can then they should get paid the mw. if they can't then they should get sacked or get paid no more than their leads.
Expose the company. This is 100% illegal.
The job you describe it NOT an internship, it's a real job as an employee and therefore she must be paid as such. An internship would be work that is of an observational nature for the purposes of learning etc and a job that would not be undertaken by regular employees. She is being illegally scammed.
In the job you describe she MUST be paid at least minimum wage in Australia. $5 is nowhere near minimum wage, which is $17.29/hour for full-time/part-time, or 25% extra on top of that if the job is casual. I am presuming your friend is an adult.Speak to the Fair Work Ombudsmen (or look at the web site), they will fill you in and I am sure they would like to hear about this company if what you say is accurate and she has some written evidence of what they are doing. I am sure the ATO would like to hear about them too for tax avoidance by underpaying people and thus underpaying the tax they would normally be passing on to the ATO.
It depends how it's worded. If she makes 12.29/hr in commissions, then the company wouldn't need to "top up" the wage and it would still be legal?
I am sure the ATO would like to hear about them too for tax avoidance by underpaying people and thus underpaying the tax they would normally be passing on to the ATO.
this makes no sense. there isn't any tax to be passed on because op's friend will most likely claim the tax-free threshold.
or do you mean company tax? if they paid their employees less then they'll actually pay more company tax.
I'd like to see such practices outlawed. Sure, you can say no, but there be someone desperate enough to take it, and you're left unemployed.
Having no minimum wage laws could lead to cheaper prices, but it sure sucks for those people trying to live on such wages.A lot of marketing companies these days depend on you working for nothing and just getting paid upon commission.
You could work your ass all day and not score a single sale, whole day wasted.
100% ILLEGAL and you should expose this company.
People should be paid a minimum rate a least for working. Some marketing companies haven taken away any means of hourly pay and just based pay on commission. So wrong on all levels.It's like telling a teacher that if the student fails, the teacher won't get paid and the teacher is only paid upon each student that passes
People in 1st world countries used to work in similar conditions to those making apple products and the clothing sweatshops etc, but a lot of blood sweat and tears went into protecting workers. It seems that we are now going backwards towards whoever will work for least reward gets the job.
This is what Gina Rinehart wants going forward for the entire workforce. If she can import african miners on 417 visas on $10 a day, none of us will be working
Run, far, far away.
https://www.fairwork.gov.au/pay/minimum-wages/piece-rates-an…