How and When to Negotiate Wage/Salary?

Doggiie on 03/11/2015 - 00:12

Hey guys,

I have only half a year left until graduation and it is starting to hit me real close.

I have had a few jobs, including an office admin job for over a year as my most recent experience. Prior to that, I had casual retail and fast food jobs. So the problem lies at my lack of knowledge on how and when to negotiate my pay. All the jobs I have been in have actually never stated their pay, but rather I walk in blindly hoping they will pay me decently until my first paycheck. One bad instance included being paid cash in hand at $12/hr at a Chinese restaurant (way under minimum wage).

I have had many interviews, which many I have failed, and never once have they ever told me the wage. Would this be the same once I start applying for graduate roles as such? This does include the big 4 firms AND smaller unnamed firms (being opening minded and realistic). Some have stated that they pay at "competitive rates", which I have found as useless, unless there is a way to read through the lines that I am not aware of.

Current situation:
1) Young with talent, however talent cannot be backed up by any major achievements except university marks
2) Small experience in the professional field
3) Probably quite low bargaining power

I know there are plenty of people here with experience so I'm hoping someone can enlighten me on this topic. There's bound to be some people who are in HR who directly deal with this!

Thanks guys!

Education & Work

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wittyusername on 03/11/2015 - 00:40

Sorry I can't help, posting this to remind me to check back as I'm in the same boat!
Good luck OP!
scrimshaw on 03/11/2015 - 00:55

+8
Most large firms do not negotiate entry-level salaries. That's because you haven't had much experience under your belt, and you haven't had any industry-related achievements, so you can't really justify an increase in salary as you have no ammunition to back your argument up. In this circumstance it is better to accept the job at the rate at which they've offered you rather than attempt to negotiate… because if you don't accept it, somebody else will get the job.

Similarly, most small businesses are also relunctant to negotiate on per-hour wages unless they've specifically stated in their job ad that the wage is negotiable (for e.g a sliding scale based on experience or relevant skills or qualifications). And in many cases many 'proper' businesses will simply pay you the minimum award wage, meaning that there is often little you can do to make them budge, although there's a strong likelihood your pay will increase over time as you progress in your career.

My advice is not to worry about salary negotiation until after you have actually secured a full-time job, and are looking to move up from that existing position.

My personal tips for salary negotiation (this is for AFTER you have landed a proper job first)

Always research a fair salary. Glassdoor and Payscale.com are some examples of websites that can be used to check salaries of many professional jobs.

Do not rush too quickly into salary or wage negotiation. Put it off or delay it as long as you can — simply talk about everything else first — duties, responsibilities, reporting relationships. You can use scripts like: "I'd like to know what my responsibilities are before I'm comfortable with discussing money. Could you summarise the role for me?".

Having a target in mind, when attempting to negotiate let the other party do the talking first. It's often the case where the first person speaks usually loses the negotiate. Let the interviewer finish their whole pitch about salary, OT, bonuses, perks, and then make a counter offer.

here is an example counter-offer

You: Just to confirm, the salary is 30K right?
HR: Yes.
You: That's unfortunate. I was hoping for something higher. Most other companies are doing 34K and this sounds a bit low according to research

Wait. listen to their counter offer

A couple of things can happen here. They might try to sell it to you again and explain that you could work your way up quickly or they might attempt to find excuses such as 'Well, you see, given your lack of experience, this is an entry level remuneration'.

You can then counter this again by stating:

I'm genuinely interested in this role and keen to start

based on my __ years of experience I have more than what the selection criteria specified

my skills in ___ means I can also do ____ for you, which will result in ___ outcome

If they continue to say no at this point:
You can then respond either by a period of silence or unwillingness to accept, and then ask for a day or two to reconsider the job offer. If they are keen to let you have the job, they will give you time to rethink. If they however want you to decide on the spot, then don't take the offer. Just thank them and finish the interview.
- Lexus101 on 03/11/2015 - 09:33
  
  Scrimshaw and Pimko are right.
  
  For a rookie, I would take virtually any offer, on the proviso that the job is interesting and in the field I wish to pursue. Get in, do an outstanding job and then sit down and talk turkey.
  
  I cannot tell you how many new grads and school leavers are currently seeking employment desperately.
  
  Good luck with your job hunting.
- Doggiie on 03/11/2015 - 10:15
  
  Thanks Scrimshaw for your insight.
  
  But the main reason why I want to consider 'negotiating' pay is not because I want more money, but instead I want just know the pay. All potential and actual employers I've had have never mentioned the pay, and obvious I was too scared to ask just in case it might make the job slip away from me.
  
  One example where I feel like it would seem appropriate to know the pay of your upcoming job is when you get 2 job offers around the same time, both with similar scenarios but the pay grade is discreet. When is it the right time to sit down and talk about pay rate? I don't think it's safe to assume everyone would pay you at the minimum award rate right?
  
  Also thank you for the counter offer scenario as well, I will also keep that in mind in the future when my prospects open up in the near future!
  - Ughhh on 03/11/2015 - 10:38
    
    You can still ask what the pay is, but don't expect there to be any negotiation. Also,
    Asking what the pay is isn't really 'negotiation', perhaps you got your definition mixed up?
    
    You need them more than they need you to be frank.
plmko on 03/11/2015 - 01:04

+5

Hold on, maybe try getting a job first before even thinking about 3 steps ahead. You said you failed interviews before, I think that's what you need to worry about before pay.
Wokka Flappa on 03/11/2015 - 07:57

Going to more interviews will help you practise for what to say
for more serious interviews.
You should treat the first 5/10 interviews as practise only.
Cheeper on 03/11/2015 - 09:47

You need to be successful at an interview first before you demand more pay.
Your value to an employer is determined by how much you are worth to them, not by your self assessment.
You have to 1. Get the job (biggest problem LOL), 2. Prove that you are worth keeping as an employee, 3. Excel in your position and become a worthwhile asset to them over a year or two. 4. If a salary increase is not automatic THEN discuss salary with the employer.
saine on 03/11/2015 - 11:12

The most powerful point in a wage negotiation is after you have been offered the job and before you accept. No point in discussing it in detail before that point. With little experience, you also shouldn't go in too hard - you need them more than they need you.
cypher67 on 03/11/2015 - 13:16

Yeah, you have no runs on the board to have any negotiating power. Get your foot in the door, do a good job and let them see your potential (Grades & best intentions does not equal potential). I joined a graduate program, everyone got the same salary and only once you left the program did you have any bargaining power, and even then it is minimal.
cupcake on 03/11/2015 - 14:44

After you have secured a full-time role, you can ask for a pay rise after your 3-month probationary period. During that time though, you should work hard and complete all tasks expected from you. Show dedication.

I always turn up to work on time, dress well, complete all tasks given to me 3 months before I ask for a pay rise. That way, my employer can't say no :)

My advice is to learn as much as you can in each role you take. Then you can put it all on your CV when you apply for the new role you really want.

If you don't know what you are asking for in terms of salary, have a look at what similar roles are paying. At least ask for an award wage.

Remember, you can negotiate pay at your job interview.

How and When to Negotiate Wage/Salary?

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