Just wondering what peoples opinion on the topic is?
Would it change your shopping habits?
At the moment halal certified products usually will have something at the bottom of the packet stating it's certified. You almost have to go out of your way to read it.
As someone who doesn't eat pork, If it is a non-meat product then absolutely I would be Halal because I know that there is no sneaky pork ingredient added in. If it is meat, I would still eat Halal but I wouldn't give it special preference over non-Halal meat which is not pork.
I don't eat pork either, but it should be listed in the ingredients. Sometimes it's hard to know from which animal byproducts like gelatin came from though.
Exactly right. But the labelling in Australia is ridiculous, I feel bad for Vegans and Vegetarians who take it seriously. I mean I'm not a Vegan or Vegetarian myself, but I don't think that people who choose to be should be tricked into eating animal products because the label was not clear if they have made a personal choice that they don't want to eat those things. I find Kosher labelling to be quite helpful for identifying Vegan products. Pareve or "P" means it has no meat or dairy products at all, it's a very strict certification, and a lot of vegan products actually go for it because usually they don't actually have to change anything in their manufacturing process to get certified because they were Vegan to start with.
My GF is vegan so I go through the whole rigmarole of making sure everything I buy that she might eat is vegan. Once you get used to it it isn't too bad. Dairy products and egg are normally in bold, which makes it a bit easier. Gelatin is not though haha. I was spewing when I found out that most candy isn't even vegetarian. Candy!
Halal pork is something I would be interested in
How about some Halal man-salami? :D
It does exist, you know.
Not a moslem, and can't say what killing method is more humane really.
But for completely selfish reason, I find the halal beef meat tastes better. The non-halal meat has this smell after cooking that is not present in the halal ones I ate.
I haven't really bought halal meat much in Australia though, so I can't attest the quality of halal meat here.
It's not just me, I've had many non-muslim friends mentioned this. Subjective perhaps, but it's still out there.
You're not going to find much sensible discussion about halal on this website, but nearly all halal-certified abattoirs in Australia will stun the animal before it is killed. The only exception to this rule is when the killing is done for ceremonial purposes such as Bakr-Eid. I dislike paying for a religious stamp on my products, but it allows us to export billions of dollars in beef to Muslim countries. If people want to preach bigotry and ignorance they better get used to our economy being shit, because our agricultural exports are one of the last few commodities holding this country up.
I generally find people complaining about halal foods to be hypocrites anyway. They don't have any trouble slurping up their sushi while conveniently ignoring the farming practices for commercial tuna.
I have nothing against people's beliefs and such, however it is something which caters towards a group of people. I am more of a passive person in terms of caring for other minority (if you can even call Muslims a minority), but then you will need to start to cater for every minority.
Giant label saying gluten free
Giant label to say vegetarian
Giant label to say vegan-friendly
Giant label to say cow-free (for Hindus)
Giant label to say peanut free for the peanut allegenics
Then we are gonna start to have a labelling contest to see which product has the most labels.
Religious beliefs and dietry requirements are two very different things.
The problem is we are no longer getting a choice and companies are being sneaky about it or don't want to say anything because of "political correctness."
You can't even buy a block of cadbury chocolate without it being halal certified, which you pay a little extra for. Its pretty much a halal tax on companies whereby the profits seem to end up in the hands of the wrong people.
The Heart Foundation Tick costs money
The Vegan Tick costs money
The Kosher Tick costs money
The Halal Tick costs money
The Gluten Free Tick costs money
etc
Use your brain, any COMPLIANCE costs money, that CADBURY that costs you an extra few cents for Halal certification is no more expensive than the compliance tick that states the Cocoa is from an Ethically Sustained Farm, or the Coffee being Rainforest Alliance.
In fact the Halal on the Cadbury can save your health in that all it means is that no Animal(pork mainly) gelatin is used.
People need to stop bitching about Halal certification costing money and beating around the bush with stupid and incoherent statements with no backing whatsoever. There are plenty other compliance checks on foods that noone gives a flying **** about.
The Halal industry is helping Australian cattle farmers reap in BILLIONS of dollars which is being put back into the economy.
Unless you can donate a few billions dollars a year to our Farmers in lieu of stopping Halal exports, I suggest whingers shut their trap
I don't understand your concern.
I will use a simple model to show why.
Let's say there are 3 groups of people, people who'd only buy halal meat, people who'd be indifferent, people who wouldn't buy halal meat.
I think it's safe to assume that people who are indifferent would be larger in Australia (I will be happy to be proven wrong, I am simplifying a lot of things for the sake of simplicity). It costs money to be halal certified. Therefore halal certified meat will cost more.
Using that logic, there will always be people who will sell non-halal meat at cheaper price. People who'd be indifferent would react only to price, therefore being less costly is the major concern.
you've confused me and the rest of the forum members with your reply, I feel dumber reading your post…
there will always be people who will sell non-halal meat at cheaper price.
Let them, Muslim people don't need to buy from there, it's choice bro.
People who'd be indifferent would react only to price
Let them, i react to price too.
therefore being less costly is the major concern.
No idea what that means
@frostman: I've replied to escimojoe. I blame the stupid reply button if it gave you a notification.
It was a reply to what s/he's saying. It's simple economics model that shows why halal certification in a free market doesn't do what he/she's saying.
A model with 3 groups of consumers and many producer, producers can choose to make their product halal certified or not at a higher cost. It will do exactly opposite of what s/he's saying. Producers will choose to produce their products at cheaper price (therefore less costly is important) because they will have to respond to the price sensitive group (the don't care group) and the competition within the market (therefore choose to not get halal certification for products for general population).
Therefore I don't understand what his/her concern is.
I was waiting for his/her reaction, a possible refutal with something like monopoly blah, then I was going to say something like, that's the problem with the market, not halal certification, right?
has anyone every seen anyone ever buy anything from the kosher section of the supermarket ?
Muslims do.
Kosher = Halal.
I have been given to understand that under islamic law a percentage of halal slaughter must go to funding jihad
I've been studying islam for 14+ years and that is exactly what the koran.
Your first statement suggest someone gave you that clueless information, the 2nd statement suggests you read it in the Quran.
Please, may you share the verse in the Quran which states a percentage of Halal money goes to funding Jihad? I'd send you $50 via PayPal immediately.
You do understand Halal chicken abattoirs are major chains like Baiada Chicken. These guys supply Oporto.
I'd send you $50 via PayPal immediately.
How do i know this money wasnt obtained through terrorism? /s
Boycott Oporto!
14+ years and you still haven't yielded to your Lord!? Damn shame, mayne; perhaps you should start studying from Islamic sources…
Complete and utter BS!
Jihad scores around a dozen mentions in the Quran, and NONE mention this rubbish.
What's the agenda, mate?
I didn't read all the comments,IMO, it is a commercial choice rather than a public or government issue, reasons being,
Oz is not a single religion country, to appeal to a certain community, it is up to the individual producer to decide whether it worth their efforts to do so…in another case, if one community can force something like this on certain product, sooner or later we will see a whole list of 'stamps' on various products for all communities concerned.
This might cause some people not so comfort but, why ask in the first place, re-think your mentality please, it is exactly why there are some sentiments in the wider Oz community toward a certain group of people due to their way of thinking and action..the Oz people/government owes nobody anything…Sure you can always ask, but be more considerate,if you are concerned about something against your cultural / religious / heritage/ background, it is your responsibility to address it in a private way, not to force the tax-payers or, even worse, the private sector to cater to your needs. You are free to request Coles/Woolworths/Aldi/Costco/IGA etc to do something about "it" on commercial ground because by doing that it will help their sales, then no problem at all…To ask government to waste money on this kind of issue is just out of blue.
I the only issue I have is if the Halal certification raises the cost of the product Im purchasing ?
It does indeed raise the cost passed on to all consumers no matter your beliefs! You have no choice.
You've got a lot of choices mate.
I recommend option 4, but I encourage option 3 as well as a fall back.
What about that discussion recently on charlie pickering's show which said that yes, the certification has a cost associated with it but it also expands their target market significantly and the net result is benefit to all consumers through economy of scale?
By ~0.1c/unit. And a halal certified product is usually geared towards consumers who would buy halal products, meaning higher sales for the company, meaning possibly a lower cost per unit for the consumer.
I don't see why anyone would care. So long as it's a good product at the best available price, why wouldn't you buy it? Who cares if it's been prepared or not in line with someone's random belief in sky fairies and magic friends?
Honestly i wouldnt care.
OP why do I get the feeling you are trolling? Your original post suggest you're worried about people missing the Halal label, then you change your tune and say why should people be 'forced' to buy halal? No one is forcing you to buy anything, if you see a halal certified product, put it back on the shelf and choose another product. Companies are making Halal products to generate more sales not as a favor to Moslems
I'm saying its hard to see the label. I personally don't want to buy it so I want it clearly labelled so I can avoid it. Problem is most products are not clearly labelled.
bring a magnifying glass
You said your problem with it is that is raises the price. So, just ignore the label and buy the cheapest thing there. Problem solved.
I think I know what you want us to say. So I will say it out loud, just like how you'd want it.
Yes, even though your logic of "should we have the halal sign larger" is more of "I don't like halal, we should get rid of it" and even though what you are saying has the intention of provoking wrongly associated fear of terrorism to muslims, racism and you are trying to cover up what you want to say with seemingly more approriate argument, I genuinely agree with you. You are absolutely, without a doubt correct.
We are not paying higher cost because of halal certification, we are paying higher price because there are no competition. You cannot blame the excuse they are using to be the cause. The market is highly monopolistic, that's the reason why we are paying more. They will use any other certification to their needs. If the market is more competitive, we'd see something different.
Not Muslim, but it wouldn't bother me either way. Hey, if it looks and sounds tasty it's going straight in my basket.
I do not buy halal for a few reasons. Firstly, it is less humane. It may have been more humane in the past but not compared to stunning the animal. Secondly, it adds cost to the production of the meat. Lastly, I don't want to add demand to a line of products I have no interest in.
Just wait till zombie apocalypse
You will it the meat regardless if it was halal or not.
And in such an event, there won't be any option to stunned the animal.
I do not buy halal for a few reasons. Firstly, it is less humane.
despite this statement being completely untrue, let me go with your logic for a moment:
Since you care so much about animal welfare;
I can challenge you on any of the above 4 culling methods using anything BUT humane.
Bunch of ignorant whingers who care nothing about animals, just love the sound of their own voice.
You have provided an example of the fallacy of false dichotomy. That there are only two possible options in a scenario when in reality there are more. Of course most do not do everything possible to support a certain cause but that does not discredit what is actually done.
I also feel you need to calm down a bit. Your cortisol might be raised just replying to comments on ozb.
Every now and then on OZB, I come across some calm and collected Professor (wannabe) that throws in some quotes and ends the statement with a personal judgement on the commentator.
The theory of people protesting against and not buying Halal food due to the inhumane killing of animals has a similar basis (of lie and deception) as does the theory that we cannot accept refugees as we're full. Both have an underlying real cause of hate and racism and bigotry but the politically correct way of stating this is to say "I DONT BUY IT AS IT'S NOT HUMANE SLUAGHTER", or "WE'RE FULL"
I don't 'really' expect these people to protest on these culling points above, but if you're going to present a foolish statement, expect some foolish questions back on the same level.
But it's not the same logic.
I don't have any issue with halal certification. One issue I do have generally though is that in my area a lot of the butchers are halal and as a result it's difficult to find a butcher who sells pork - but there's always coles and woolworths.
I find the whole thing stupid, it's harder to buy gluten-free stuff, and there is actually a real reason some people need it (coeliac, not being a wenker). I do not care that you need your food to be imaginarily ok. There are people who literally can't eat things cos it will kill them, and they're more important than your beliefs. I don't care about Kosher, I don't care about those gross jesus-body-crackers, I don't care about "blessing" and killing animals inhumanely because your religion says you "have to", but everything else you can pick and choose. Ich hasse religion. Stamp it out!
Golliwogs!
This is the most retarded comment i've ever read on ozbargain. I'm not even a muslim but i'm going to call you out on pretty much everything you said.
This is just barbaric - harming & killing a poor distressed animal with lack of humanity
You do realise that slaughter houses pretty much act in the exact same way…. whether or not they're halal is irrelevant.
You live in a western country where OUR beliefs have survived for centuries
ummm both religions are based off Judaism, which has also survived for centuries
worked money for into tax
Muslims pay tax too, they have the exact same responsibilities as any christian
then start demanding that you have the rights for your mosques to be built
I'm sure the aboriginals felt the same way when churches were being built.
the food you want should be available
Most foods don't require changes to be halal certified.
why can't we even be able to purchase long loved foods from England
If there is a demand for them, then i'm sure businesses will be interested.
this Halal stuff is to be promoted & encouraged to these people
In the same way as organic certifications or the National Heart Foundation ‘tick’ logo, manufacturers only obtain halal certification if it is worth their while to do so. Australia’s food manufacturing industry is highly competitive and exposed to competition from imports, so manufacturers do not pay for certifications they cannot use. So when manufacturers consider whether to seek halal certification, they consider whether the marketing benefits of certification outweigh the costs involved. source
Halal Labeling should only concern people who want to consume Halal food.
Anyone who eats any kind of animal meat is guilty of helping animal cruelty,because regardless of the killing method, animal loses its life.
no one forcing anyone to buy products labeled halal.
If its clearly labeled then you can make informed choice, I would be worried if halal was not labeled.
Halal is not only about meat, its about Alcohol and few other products as well.
I don't care about religion, if it's yummy, I'll eat it. Could not care less.
OK, another productive thread. Pat yourselves on the back. CLOSED.
@escimojoe:
Sure, because of the market demand; simple rule of toe is that there is an economic justification for every business decision and these ARE business decisions. There are approx 5 times more Muslims than vegetarians in the world (google stats); are you as irked by the herbivorous habits and the perceived financial detriment to yourself?
Do you not consider that the increased sales of a Halal certified product more than likely offset the cost of certification, hence leave no impact on the general consumer?