"Hot spot" university parking fine dispute

tradiesunited on 01/09/2015 - 14:08
Last edited 01/09/2015 - 14:38

Hi ozbargainers,

State that offence/fine was incurred: NSW
Issuing body: Uni Campus security
Current Licence Details/relevant restrictions and/or history: P2
Alleged Offense: Parking in restricted parking area
Ticket issued yes

Details:

I parked in the bay of parking areas at university. The sign at the entrance of the parking bay states "Hot spot parking only" and below "fines apply". I parked there for 10 minutes to go into the university to return a library book. I came out to a security issuing my car with a fine. I spoke to the security officer and explained that the sign said "Hot spot parking" and it didn't state any permit required at the entry sign. He showed me a sign inside the parking bay that stated "Hot spot parking permit only". There are only two small signs inside the parking bay showing these permit signs. All the other signs at the univserity state in there signboard upon entry the colour code and "permit" in the sign, EXCEPT this one "hot spot parking only".

Is it legal to fine a car parking in a parking sign at the entry of the car park stating "hot spot only" and be vague about the requiring a permit at the entry of the carpark and then have small signs inside the carpark stating that "hot spot permit only"?

How should I write a request for a review?

Any help would be great
Thanks in advance ozbargain family :)

Automotive

Comments

  • toniyellow on 01/09/2015 - 14:17
    +2

    The uni campus is most likely private property - if so they can set their own parking rules.

    Most places e.g. shopping centres can't really enforce the rules they set, just threaten you with a fine that isn't really a fine. But are you enrolled at the uni? You should look into what you have agreed to as part of your enrollment. They might be able to restrict you receiving exam results unless you pay fines. Universities are like their own world. They will have a policy and procedure somewhere on their website, which probably includes how to appeal if you want to.

    • macrocephalic on 01/09/2015 - 16:52
      +2

      Some universities partner with the local council for parking enforcement - I know UQ does. When you get a parking fine at UQ it's a BCC parking fine.

      • tonyjzx on 01/09/2015 - 20:39

        lol, large uni campuses are certainly not private property… the big ones are all federally owned so yeah, full force of the law

        they go to the state sdro

        • toniyellow on 01/09/2015 - 23:19
          +1

          Lol many large campuses of public universities are private property.

          Monash – the largest in Aus by student numbers – private property
          UWS – the university it turns out the OP was talking about – private property

          Universities are their own world. They will have a policy. The parking fine will be processed by whoever is listed as responsible in that policy. That may or may not be delegated to somewhere like the SDRO. It will vary from uni to uni.

    • fruit on 01/09/2015 - 20:38

      Unis are the exception to this are they are created by legislation.

    • Tejas57 on 01/09/2015 - 22:47

      some unis are federally controlled under acts of parliament (for example the University of Queensland Act 1998) which gives the uni the power to issue fines as a statutory authority.

      i would say that it is a valid fine and if you are a student they can issue sanctions, stopping you from graduating

      • macrocephalic on 02/09/2015 - 08:45

        I think that was the act that finally allowed the police to come and stop the "High Society" functions (the university club dedicated to smoking weed - now dedicated to drug reform). See this sort of thing would never happen now: https://www.greenleft.org.au/node/7239

  • John on 01/09/2015 - 14:19
    +3

    Legal? Yes.
    Fair? Probably Not.

    Unfortunately, that's the world we live in.

    You can request for the fine to be waived, but I recommend writing the request letter to get a bit of mercy (eg. you are uni student, you didn't know, signs wasn't clear, you were there for 10 mins, etc.). Be more apologetic rather than being offensive and taking the legal ground. You will more likely get away with it.

    Because its a private property, I think you have a better chance in having your fine waived.

  • QW3RTY on 01/09/2015 - 14:42
    +2

    Parked in a spot without reading the conditions of car park entry.

    Yes it's legal. Yes it's fair. Come on bro, these are 21st century rookie errors.

  • Findo on 01/09/2015 - 14:47
    +4

    Buy a ute or a wagon and park in loading zones.

    • donga100 on 01/09/2015 - 20:19

      Just put some fake commercial logos on your current car.

  • ykwon10 on 01/09/2015 - 14:56

    Happened to me once 10 years ago in Uni @ VIC. I was issued a fine under similar circumstances as OP. Appealed under the grounds of unclear signs in parking lot plus it was public holiday, appeal got rejected. No harm giving it a go, however, I doubt they will waive it. Universities are blood suckers when it comes to money.

    • whats up skip on 01/09/2015 - 21:10

      Appealed to who?

      Who issued the fine?

      • ykwon10 on 02/09/2015 - 08:39

        On the fine notice there will be contacts/instructions to appeal if I remember correctly. It was the university's parking officer that issued the fine.

  • Flying Ace on 01/09/2015 - 15:46

    Aren't "fines" issued by private parking contractors unenforceable? They just rely on people coughing up.

    • Olokun on 01/09/2015 - 16:20

      It is a university. So the starting assumption is they have authority under their ACT to manage parking as well as authorise officers to issue infringement notices.

      Without knowing more it is hard to assume this is not the case.

      • whats up skip on 01/09/2015 - 21:11

        I wouldn't just assume they have authority under their act.

  • emibel19 on 01/09/2015 - 19:37
    +1

    What is meant by "hot spot parking" anyway? I've never heard of the term.

    • QW3RTY on 01/09/2015 - 19:56

      If OP attends the University of Western Sydney, here's the policy.

      • emibel19 on 01/09/2015 - 20:02

        Thanks. I guess it's specific to that University (and perhaps some other Universities or similar institutions).

      • whats up skip on 01/09/2015 - 21:12

        A university's policy isn't the law. They might make you think it is, but it isn't.

        • Tejas57 on 01/09/2015 - 22:51

          considering they can report unpaid fines to the. The State Debt Recovery Office this says to me it's legal…

        • QW3RTY on 02/09/2015 - 08:46

          And in addition to Tejas' comments above — if you're a student and have outstanding fines, late fees at the Library or generally any balances owing to the university, they will withhold your ability to graduate until you clean those outstanding balances.

        • whats up skip on 02/09/2015 - 09:00

          @QW3RTY:

          A university can issue a late fee, but I think you will find they are no more able to issue a fine than a bank can. If NSW has allowed this through specific legislation then it goes against the competition legislation reforms that were made in the 1990's to make universities subject to the Trade Practices Act.

        • whats up skip on 02/09/2015 - 09:01

          @Tejas57:

          Just because it has been happening, doesn't make it legal.

        • QW3RTY on 02/09/2015 - 09:34

          @not a bargain: Huh? Car parks at Universities are Restricted Parking Areas under the Road Traffic Act. Drivers must observe traffic and parking rules as they would on any public street. Vehicles must display authorisation to park in a Restricted Area and may only be parked within marked bays as appropriate to the authorisation and signage displayed.

          The rules are abundantly clear from a legislative point of view. The university (depending on which one) have clear parking policies around parking authorisation on each of their websites.

          Western Sydney Uni (Formerly UWS)
          Sydney Uni
          Macquarie Uni

          I see no problem in what the university has done from a legality point of view. The only problem here is people parking in parking spaces without authorisation, which is carefully explained in the policies by each of the universities listed above.

        • whats up skip on 02/09/2015 - 13:48

          @QW3RTY:

          If the signs are not clear, then they are not legally binding no matter what the policy or legislation says. Trouble is it might require a trip to a rather expensive court. Also a policy on a web site isn't going to be binding on anyone that is a casual visitor to a campus. The concept of reasonable notification comes into play.

          I will still need to read the legislation for NSW, if I have time, as it sounds like NSW has used legislative over reach and may have empowered a body with powers that it shouldn't have. Then it starts to become all messy with that little thing called the constitution.

          I suppose it is even possible that the NSW government has exempted their universities from the Australian Consumer Law, which would be a very poor service to the university students in NSW and a blow to legislative standardization across the States.

        • QW3RTY on 02/09/2015 - 14:56

          @not a bargain:

          If the signs are not clear

          "Permit required" for parking in a space isn't clear?

          Next we'll be arguing that the "100" sign on the highway isn't clear. 100 what? Miles per hour? Meters per second? The price of the highway toll?

          Ignorantia juris non excusat — being ignorant of the rules do not exempt you from them.

          a policy on a web site isn't going to be binding on anyone that is a casual visitor to a campus.

          It's safe to assume that the OP is a student or staff, as a faculty/student card is required to borrow from the Library — hence university policies would certainly apply.

          Regardless of whether he is a student or not, the NSW Legislation (Road Traffic Act) would take effect — and the university is able to exercise their entitlements under the Legislation. The Restricted Parking Area classification of the space on campus is not subject to a person's relationship with that university. Contractors need to park in contractor spaces. Staff and students need to park in spaces as defined by the Permits they hold. Disabled access spots are reserved for disability pass holders. Nobody is exempt. It's seriously not a difficult concept.

          I cannot park my 124 seater bus across 3 disabled spots because I don't have a relationship with the university.

  • fruit on 01/09/2015 - 20:36

    What is "hot spot parking"?

    If you didn't know what it was then why did you park there?
    There are "Mail Zones" which I have no idea what they are for, can I park here if I am dropping off packages? Are they for AusPost? I don't park there because unless I know I'm allowed to, I can't.

  • whats up skip on 01/09/2015 - 21:32
    +1

    I would first put in writing to the university that you believe the signs weren't clear or that the signs were misinterpreted by the issuing officer. Provide pictures and other evidence.

    If the university rejects your objection and you intend to fight it, then you need to tell them in writing that you are doing so. This way they can't refer on fine to sheriff or debt collectors.

    This is complicated and it may not be worth your time and effort to follow this through, as you are fighting this as a matter of principle as the time you spend on this will be worth far more than fine is worth. There are at least two legal options:

    1) The courts in Victoria ruled that only a government can issue a fine, and the situation can't be really any different in NSW. Universities are not governments, however the university may have arrangements with the local council (a government) to enforce the parking on the grounds of the university. I know this is done at least one university in Victoria. This in itself is questionable, but on a whole different level. It doesn't sound like the fine was issued by a council in this case if the fine wasn't issued by a council officer. If the fine is issued by the university, then I would contact the office of fair trading. Mention the court ruling in Victoria and see what they say. Even if the office of fair trading don't want to run with it, then you could still take the issue to NCAT on this ground and the second ground as well.

    2) Universities are not governments and are subject to the Australian Consumer Law. Under the Australian Consumer Law any parking signs would need to be clear and you couldn't be expected to read paragraphs of conditions at the point of entry. You would need to provide evidence that the signs were unclear, misinterpreted by the issuing person or too extensive.

    • Tejas57 on 01/09/2015 - 22:53
      +1

      If the fine is issued by the university, then I would contact the office of fair trading. Mention the court ruling in Victoria and see what they say. Even if the office of fair trading don't want to run with it, then you could still take the issue to NCAT on this ground and the second ground as well.

      universities are generally statutory authorities and have all the powers that brings, including issuing fines.

      • whats up skip on 02/09/2015 - 09:08
        -1

        Well Bond University certainly isn't and none of the universities in Victoria are. Sure they behaved like they are, but when confronted at a high enough level they suddenly start to act correctly. Though they still try to keep pushing the issue. In the 1990's I took on one of the Victorian universities on breaches of the Trade Practices Act. Although I didn't win, I believe today under the current Australian Competition Law and my greater knowledge I believe I would have been able to win at VCAT, without the need to go through the ACCC. The laws and systems have changed significantly against the universities.

        In the end I beat them by proving they were in breach of their Federal Government funding rules.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/09/2015 - 23:20

    The sign is stupid. It should just say permit parking, what the hell is a hot spot? Does the spot come with WiFi?

  • jimbobaus on 03/09/2015 - 11:45

    It depends on a couple things.
    1) Was the ticket issued by a council?
    2) if it was issued by a private parking operator then the below may be of use to you
    I used it to get out of a parking fine in Melbourne (not a uni) by quoting a lot of what was written in the article attached

    http://consumeraction.org.au/private-car-parking-fines/

    • Olokun on 03/09/2015 - 16:11

      Councils are not the only authority that can issue parking infringements

      • jimbobaus on 05/09/2015 - 23:21

        They are in Victoria. (police the only other agency that can)

        Any other "infringement" issued is simply considered a "breach of contract' and is NOT enforceable.
        There is a link to the court finding on the link i posted above, it basically states that unless the contract terms are "clear" when you enter the private car park then they can not charge you a "fee" for overstaying or failing to pay. And if they DO attempt to charge you the amount must be a valid claim as to their "loss" as a result of your overstaying. The court found $88 (the fine in the case) was excessive.

        On a side note.. private car parks can NOT list a default on your credit rating should you fail to pay it.

        • Olokun on 05/09/2015 - 23:48

          VicRoads also have authorised persons as well as other people who do not work for councils but are authorised by them.

          There are many places which are created by statute (such as UnIversities) which allow them to do things like control parking and issue infringement notices via a person who has been authorised (ie by council).

  • Ughhh on 07/09/2015 - 21:27

    As far as I'm aware, if you don't pay the fine, you won't get your degree certificate. Same with library overdue etc fees

  • TheOneWhoKnocks on 13/09/2015 - 06:58

    Why isn't OP replying to or acknowledging the comments?

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