Every good purchased online from overseas from July 1, 2017 onwards, will have the GST attached, following an agreement Friday between State and Federal Treasurers.
Full Details Here
Thoughts?
I personally wonder how they are going to handle those one cent crap we manage to find.
https://theconversation.com/three-holes-in-hockeys-plan-to-l…
"In 2011, the Productivity Commission said:
There are strong in-principle grounds for the low value threshold (LVT) exemption for GST and duty on imported goods to be lowered significantly, to promote tax neutrality with domestic sales. However, the Government should not proceed to lower the LVT unless it can be demonstrated that it is cost effective to do so.
But the Productivity Commission also estimated it would cost $2 billion to collect the additional $600 million of additional tax revenue dropping the threshold would deliver."
$0 limit? Let's protest without leaving home with a small donation.
Following July 1, 2017, we buy <insert however many=donation amount> less-than one dollar items. Without any intention of collecting the items, we completely clog the system.
Imagine what this will be like if a few thousand people get in on it? Imagine if they do instigate a collection fee? Fees on thousands of items that will never be collected!
I'm willing to throw 50 bucks at this when the time comes. Even feeling joy at the prospect of the challenge - how many items my $50 will bring?! :)
OH yeah, ebay search for auctions ending in 30 seconds, and priced under $1 with free postage.
Buy all of em, dont pay gst, lets see if they waste the 20cent phone call, to collect 10cents, ahhahaha.
The cheapest option is to just send it to me, but knowing how incompetent govt employees are, they will store it, or
outsource the destruction for $$$.
@RalX: You guys know that's our tax $$$$ being burned right? Its not like there is Gerry Harvey at the end of it bearing the cost.
You know what would be even funnier? If they raise GST to 15% to pass on the cost of such Shananagans to the tax payer. That would be really funny.
@El Grande: I just think that if it happened swiftly after introduction, then it would force their hand to change it.
The people instigating policy change have no idea how any of this stuff works in the real world. Someone has to show them that there is more to it than bending over for retailers.
@snook: That's the thing. Charging GST on imports levels the field. Australian Businesses have to pay GST. They don't get to keep any of that money. It goes to the government. On the other hand people are happy to import if it saves them $50 even if locally before GST the item could be $20 cheaper. Then of course there is the cost of proving warranty under ACL, insurance costs etc.
I would rather they make purchases under $1000 GST free in Australia too to level the playing field :D
It seems that they are going after the overseas sellers, not buyers-> "it won't be about policing the consumers, it will be about policing the vendors overseas"
This might work with some larger sellers like amazon but they can hardly expect to police the millions of overseas businesses.
Good luck with policing it. Don't most of those overseas vendors avoid paying tax in Australia anyway? Another failed BS policy. They'd make more money back by raining in their travel rorts etc… I'm so over politicians….
better raining company not paying TAX here then waste there time on this. the TAX office is understaff and overworked
Strange how Apple includes GST in online purchases and yet charges via SIngapore.
Not strange if you understand the GST legislation and how it is charged. Many, many overseas companies without a local presence are required to register for, and charge GST to Australian consumers.
Thats precisely my point. Apple collects GST and yet avoids paying tax on profits by using the Singapore arrangement.
@ninetyNineCents: Your point is incorrect though. GST and Corporate Tax are two entirely different taxes and you can't compare them in that way. You can have a GST liability without creating a Permanent Establishment and being subject to tax on your profits.
You are probably right (99%+) about the government requirements, i was just trying to stress what a joke the arrangement is, where two sides both clearly doing business in Australia and yet only one is taxed.
I dont like paying tax more than anyone, but if im going to get hit so should they.
END NEGATIVE GEARING YOU FATCAT PIECES OF @#%$ RIPPING OFF ANYONE UNDER 40.
(and some over 40 too)
This might work with some larger sellers like amazon but they can hardly expect to police the millions of overseas businesses.
I suspect for larger retailers, they'll collect on behalf of the Australian government. So once the delivery address is set to Australia, the final price will be 10% more, and the overseas retailer will forward that amount to ATO together with their BAS-equivalent.
For stores that don't want to sign up to the GST-collection program, their parcels will probably be stopped at custom and their customers might end up having to pay 10% + collection fee. So it's in their best interest to actually sign up to the program lest they want to lose their Australian customers.
So the public has to pay the tax but a billion dollar multinational can avoid it through loopholes?
Of course not, but we are talking about GST collection here not company tax. Most people would be disappointed if ATO continue to fail collecting sufficient tax from Australian companies that siphon their revenue to offshore entities.
However disappointment and anger do not translate to resolutions. Need better policies to close those loopholes.
Scotty youve hit the nail on the head with "their parcels will probably be stopped at custom"
Anyone remember the pre-GST days? I had bought a ?DVD recorder from UK (not available here at the time). It cost I think over AU$400. Got a letter not from customs, but from a "freight forwarder" who asked for $160 duty plus another $40 in "fees" = $600 total purchase. A 33% penalty for buying from overseas. Said to myself: never again.
Bad old days. I hope it does not go back to that. Even if they add GST at retailer level is better than collecting it when it arrives here.
I have a feeling this whole thing is to take us back to old bad days, NEVER BUY FROM OVERSEAS AGAIN, BUY FROM LOCAL RETAILERS OR JUST DON'T BUY AT ALL!
Whats the bet a lot of companies will pop up like those American address forwarders, who then send a lot of gifts…
Forwarders aren't exactly cheap. Few pieces of clothes easily cost you $50 for fees and delivery. Good if you're buying small and obscure expensive items.
Sorry i should have noted that these forwarders will have to be much cheaper otherwise they will be beaten by the asian resellers in HK or China.
Your right those American forwarders are a joke and a rip off. Nobody gets a cbargain by buying thru them.
As it is, everything is cheaper from aliexpress, amazon + postage = too high, unless its very rare or usa only.
Now I wish more of Asia and got the clue to get online to sell to the west.
You purchase from millions of sellers overseas?
Australia as a whole does…
I think you will find that's not the case.
I think you will find that's not the case.
According to who??? You? You've counted them all and verified that there are <2 million foreign businesses with an online presence that are (or may) be purchased from by Australian consumers?
The ABS estimates that around 250k businesses in Australia "received orders via the internet" (Cat no. 8129.0, 2013-14).
Australia's population represents roughly 0.45% of the population of G20 countries (estimated, 2010. source: http://www.g8.utoronto.ca/evaluations/factsheet/factsheet_de…)…assuming similar rates of business registration per capita, online order receipt per registered business and population age (and therefore purchasing) profile, that calculates back to over 79million businesses in G20 countries alone (which would probably make up the bulk of e-commerce world-wide) that have 'received orders via the internet'
I don't think it's unreasonable to assert/assume that there would be at least 2million foreign businesses with a web presence outside of Australia and/or that Australians may have used at least 2million of these at various stages!
First of all, we're not talking about Australian businesses. We're talking about overseas businesses. Secondly, an online presence does, or even selling online, does not mean that a retailer will sell and ship to every country. Third, I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that people in Australia will not shop from 2 million (plus) online stores.
I bet you'd struggle to name 10 or 20 online stores that you buy from overseas (without looking them up). Just because so many business exist, does not mean that all Australian consumers are going to buy from them. I'm sure that there are likely thousands (maybe even tens of thousands) of online businesses that people buy from in Australia, but "millions" is a grandiose number.
And don't forget, it's only applicable if a business has an annual turnover over more than $75,000 when selling to Australian's.
First of all, we're not talking about Australian businesses
You're right, we're not talking about Australian businesses, but, as I explained, I'm using Australian businesses to interpolate what I think is a reasonable guestimation of the number of foreign businesses that receive online sales.
Secondly, an online presence does [sic], or even selling online, does not mean that a retailer will sell and ship to every country
True. There are many online retailers that do not ship to Australia, but there are also many that will, or will via third party shipping agents etc.
Third, I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that people in Australia will not shop from 2 million (plus) online stores.
Based on what evidence exactly? Your gut feel?
I bet you'd struggle to name 10 or 20 online stores that you buy from overseas (without looking them up).
I'd be tempted to take you up on that bet. I can think of at least 10 that I've purchased from without any great effort (car parts, mobile phones/accessories, computer bits, projectors, clothes…countless items/business going back 10-15 years), but naming them and having shopped from them are two different things. I could not actually count the number of different online 'businesses' that I've actually bought stuff from, let alone the number that I've shopped at (price-checked etc.), either via an independent website, or via ebay/amazon/etsy/alibaba etc… I actually try very hard to support Aussie businesses/bricks 'n' mortar etc., but it's very hard when the cheapest replacement (non-genuine) auxiliary water pump for my car is $380 and I can get an OEM one shipped in from the US for $125 (in almost the same time as it would take the brick 'n' mortar store to order one in!).
And don't forget, it's only applicable if a business has an annual turnover over more than $75,000 when selling to Australian's.
The $75k rule, as it stands, doesn't apply to a business with no Australian presence, and I expect that will continue to be the case - you seriously expect that a foreign business with no interest in Australia, other than maybe shipping the odd order here, would be interested in submitting income details to ATO/ASIC? How on earth is that going to be governed? My guess would be (without having read any of the announcement) that the gov't will try to charge (or at least propose to charge) GST on every 'sale' that comes into the country from o/s…which may have some interesting impacts (will people resort to re-shippers/ebay/etsy to avoid buying from a 'business', and therefore GST liability?
@Osprey06:
Wow, doesn't matter how much I proof read, I still make mistakes :(
Based on what evidence exactly? Your gut feel?
From ABS: "There were 2,100,162 actively trading businesses in Australia in June 2014. The number of actively trading businesses in Australia increased by 1% between June 2013 and June 2014. The business entry rate increased from 11.2% in 2012-13 to 13.7% in 2013-14." 8165.0 - Counts of Australian Businesses, including Entries and Exits, Jun 2010 to Jun 2014
Do you honestly think, that as a country, we interact with more online stores, based overseas, than the total number of businesses in Australia? You're basically saying that 1 in 12 people in are going to shop at an online store based overseas, that no one else has shopped at before? It's not a gut feel, it's simple numbers and practicality.
I'd be tempted to take you up on that bet. I can think of at least 10 that I've purchased from without any great effort (car parts, mobile phones/accessories, computer bits, projectors, clothes…countless items/business going back 10-15 years), but naming them and having shopped from them are two different things. I could not actually count the number of different online 'businesses' that I've actually bought stuff from, let alone the number that I've shopped at (price-checked etc.), either via an independent website, or via ebay/amazon/etsy/alibaba etc… I actually try very hard to support Aussie businesses/bricks 'n' mortar etc., but it's very hard when the cheapest replacement (non-genuine) auxiliary water pump for my car is $380 and I can get an OEM one shipped in from the US for $125 (in almost the same time as it would take the brick 'n' mortar store to order one in!).
I don't really understand what point you're trying to make here. Of course you can find things cheaper overseas, and that's why a lot of people might shop online - it's not something I'm disputing. I'm saying that when you (or others) are buying online, you're likely going to shop from the same online stores as other people (which will likely be in the thousands, not millions).
The $75k rule, as it stands, doesn't apply to a business with no Australian presence, and I expect that will continue to be the case - you seriously expect that a foreign business with no interest in Australia, other than maybe shipping the odd order here, would be interested in submitting income details to ATO/ASIC? How on earth is that going to be governed? My guess would be (without having read any of the announcement) that the gov't will try to charge (or at least propose to charge) GST on every 'sale' that comes into the country from o/s…which may have some interesting impacts (will people resort to re-shippers/ebay/etsy to avoid buying from a 'business', and therefore GST liability?
The ATO is not stupid. Whether you like the tax man or not, from what I understand, we have one of the most advanced taxation systems in the world. The ATO is unlikely to chase business where they're not going to get results. They're not going to chase the GST on a 1 cent item, but they will go after a seller that's clearly selling a lot of goods to Australia.
As for places like Etsy and Ebay, their sites already have tools for adding taxes. And you know what? If you're selling $75,000 worth of goods to a particular country, then it's probably good business. If they want to keep that business, they can invest some time in ticking a few boxes to collect the GST.
I don't understand how re-shipping is meant to help? You still need to declare the value of an item when it's re-shipped, and the item still needs some sort of description. It's not going to go very far in avoiding tax if customs (or whoever checks the parcel) sees an invoice without a GST component.
Meanwhile, Hockey added that taxation officials will travel around the world to get companies (like Amazon, Netflix, Facebook) to register for GST.
No doubt their salaries and travel costs will cost more than this scheme will earn for a little while
"Free" travel around the world for Hockey's friends soon.
fly with helicopter…or jet…???
"private"
Sounds like a deal to me. There salaries could be tax free when they go overseas (like the ADF) and they could claim chopper rides between companies…. Can I apply for a job please?
Edit: Oops just realised that I said exactly what Hellfire said above.
OzBargainers must PROTEST this ASAP! Grab your pitchforks and lobby at Parliament house.
Is there a sale on pitchforks somewhere?
and free shipping. Cos shipping usually kills it!
Yep we need a sharp bargain. Can anyone point 1 out to me?
Gold comment
…but as long as it is not from an overseas seller.
This "deal" will start in just under 2 years. That should be plenty of time to find a deal on all the pitchforks and banners we will need for this campaign. Who's with me?
Also… most of the stuff I buy from ebay is marked "Gift" by the seller. I never even request it. Would doing this help you avoid the GST?
No it does not.
Marking item as "GIFT" if value is over $1000, stil currently attracts GST&Duties.
This rule was changed in 2008, if you do not think this is right negative me, otherwise look it up and google
What about items under that threshold? For example if a relative send me some shoes from the U.S, ticked as gift is this going to attract GST after July?
If it value is declared as less than 1000 $AUD then regardless if gift is ticked or not then no tax and duty is paid.
@subywagon: Well with the new rules, there is just one thing… "ALL ITEMS" form overseas will be tax. So I will say "GIFT" will be taxed.
There is NO information at all on it aside from what hockey has "said"
@Turd: I confess to not being bothered to read the mumbo myself but want to know if duty is now going to be paid on everything as well?
I can live with GST, 10% whatever … but the duty is a completely different issue and much more expensive.
so much for the free trade agreement with China, or does that mean all goods from HK are gst free?
Thats becaue theres no purchase box on those intenrationally agreed package declaration stickon forms.
If "friends" sending us gifts, how and who are they going to collect GST?
if indeed gifts also attract GST, most likely the postie will be required to collect the GST when they deliver it to your house.
if you dont pay your 'gifts' will be hold for some time and then return back to sender.
At least that's how it is done in USA and a couple of other countries.
So even if it is a genuine gift you have to pay GST from now on? Well, (profanity) this!
I receive Gifts and free stuff all the time ;)
You don't happen to work for the government by any chance? ;)
Yer … no I was being sarcastic lol thats just what I tell my missus hehe.
Sigh.
Wonder if they will apply GST to all the Apple iConsumes coming out of Ireland?
Actually SIngapore. Buy something from the apple shop for free delivery and they bill you out of Singapore and yet they charge you GST.
To get around this for larger items just send them to a US address, like a forwarder so Ebay/Amazon etc won't collect the GST on the transaction.
So I can by-pass the piracy laws with an Internet VPN and the GST laws with a real-world VPN ;-)
but u need to pay the forwarder fee which won't be worth it unless the item GST cost more than the forwarder fee.
HI isn't Govt will charge GST anyway for $1000 and less?
I don't care about paying GST on anything I import. In fact, I am pleased to do it if it helps the country.
But if these clowns make it hard for me to shop online by having to traipse to the post office or similar to pay 20c GST to collect my $2 earbuds from an ebay auction I will be ropeable.
I am fine for a level tax playing field, the price difference between here and overseas is so vast for most items it is trivial, but if it adds difficulty to online commerce, I will be campaigning to throw this government out.
It isn't unusual for us to get half a dozen little packets with earbuds, screen protectors, SD cards etc each week. If I need to go collect these things I will be cranky.
'I will be campaigning to throw this government out'…………..I thought that was Tony's job?
It pisses me off because these clowns are pissing our money away through mismanagement, taking advantage of the system etc. If they acted professional and actually knew what they were doing they probably wouldn't need any extra revenue.
It pisses me off because it is passing the buck to the little guy,
What happened to going after multinational tax avoidance? What happened to the Liberals saying no new taxes? Just another lie it seems.
When you are campaigning, will you be wearing the same clothing as in your avatar picture?
Don't vote on appearances!
is that your real pic?
I think it would be cool to have someone like that in the front campaigning..
Look like winston churchill + a hobbit had a child
@tyler.durden: S'avatar is blurry enough / resemblance close enough, for me to have always just assumed the photo was of Burl Ives. Clicked on mskeggs account to see larger and not so sure now.
Anyway - Burl Ives - my Mum loved his singing when she was a little girl.
I can remember a couple of 'Best of Burl Ives' records being in the house when I was a kid. She probably still has them.
The studio version of this was on one of them.
Non-TV studio version, and dubstep remix, appear to be both missing from Youtube.
The problem is that the Productivity Commission has previously ruled that lowering the GST threshold under $1,000 would cost more money to enforce than it would collect. This is not going to make money unless we get charged some sort of fee as well as the GST.
so this sounds like the gst will be applied on the vendor side, and not when the goods arrive in the country like customs duty?
i'm wondering as well how private sales i.e. ebay will be treated.
i reckon we should all protest by buying heaps of 1c items from banggood and give them a paperwork orgy lol
also, have they considered some orders going from amazon to shipping forwarders like shipito or reship?
Someone already mentioned the forwarding thing and generally the gst on the item is less than the cost would be to forward it.
Althought if the item cost a few thousand then it might be worth it, but it might not be just to save $50… What am i saying, this is ozbargain!
plus, there is not telling if customs are gonna check all packages…
so they might make u pickup the item and pay the fee
i have to have some items forwarded from certain retailers due to brand restrictions and/or unreasonable shipping fees. if i don't have to pay gst on the original purchase, it's a bonus to me
Will be funny all those chinese sellers in alibaba charging GST and just keeping the money themselves:)
money money money
must be funny
in alibaba's world
:p
You need to remember that you will not just be paying a 10% GST. You will also have to pay processing fees for tax collection, probably around $50. This makes it prohibitively expensive to purchase cheap items like a book, CD or $30 shirt from overseas. I hate the government, and not just the federal LNP - state treasurers of both parties agrees to steal from me. The government is the enemy.
The Australian dollar has fallen by 30% over the past 2 years, decreasing my purchasing power by 30%. And now the greedy government want to make things ever more expensive for poor Australia in order to make rich Australia (retailers and distributors) even richer.
This country is turning into an overpriced dump.
politicians are only really working for whichever industry cries poor the loudest
politicians are only really working for whichever industry
bribesdonatesfinancially supports them the most
Fixed that for you
that works too :)
Which ever industry gives them a job after they leave. Just look at Nick Griener.
You will also have to pay processing fees for tax collection, probably around $50.
I'm sorry, but there is absolutely no way that it would be $50.
Currently it's around that for a laptop that's breaking the $1000AUD threshold.
What's the difference between the paperwork of a laptop to something else?
You might say "Oh there's a battery in it" - there's no testing done, it's literally "pay us $50 to accept your 10% payment and release your item".
WHY is there no protest in this country ? EVER ??
Why can they pass these laws and no one objects ?
Please help me understand. Why is there no form of opposition from the people, not the politicians. I understand they all have their own agendas to look after.
I feel like what the hell can we do? Does protesting actually do anything?
Silent obedience sure as hell doesn't
Protesting with words or protesting with money?
Jerry Harvey got exactly what he wanted from the Liberal Government by donating millions of dollars to them.
Now all imports are just that little bit more expensive because of him… and because god forbid Tony Abbott chases the big end of town for their fair share of taxes.
Yes yes, their scheduled rate of tax is 40%+ but you got rocks in your head if you think anyone on high income is paying anything close to that with all the loopholes available to them.
WHY is there no protest in this country ? EVER ??
To be fair, there has been some decent sized protests. But one problem is that the mainstream media likes to support/give publicity to one type of protest (a smallish gathering of Australian Tea Partiers quite a while ago) while ignoring (at best) or insulting (at worst) other types of protests ("FERALS ARE ON THE LOOSE" or something to that effect).
Please help me understand. Why is there no form of opposition from the people, not the politicians. I understand they all have their own agendas to look after.
2 mains reasons I think:
1) It is easier to mobilise a small group of individuals with similar interests (the rich ruling elite AKA the business owners union) than it is to mobilise a disparate group of many people from all walks of life with often conflicting interests.
2) The more their needs and wants are satisfied (food, water, TV) the less likely an individual is to go out there and protest. If you want people to really unite and protest, then they need to do it on an empty stomach. Of course, by then it would probably be too late to protest whatever it needs protesting, but then, humans aren't prone to long-term outlooks.
http://www.gizmodo.com.au/2015/08/all-goods-bought-overseas-…