Facing a Disciplinary Hearing at Uni

Ldgu123 on 17/08/2015 - 17:23
Last edited 17/08/2015 - 19:12

Hi all, I've found myself in quite a tricky situation. Any advice would be welcomed. Basically, I am facing a disciplinary hearing at uni for what they have termed serious misconduct. The uni has been 'investigating' for over two weeks. I had a chance to attend the uni and meet with them, but ended up walking out as the faculty lady was extremely patronizing and rude. Looking back, probably not the best way to handle the situation. The uni has not been very helpful at all, and I was wondering if anyone has been in a similar position and what to expect. Will I have a chance to speak? Should I get a lawyer? Is it likely that I will be excluded?

The incident relates to something that occurred on a practical placement, which, I admit, was extremely unprofessional. But at the same time I feel like I have a good case against the uni and my placement provider, who didn't offer me adequate supervision for the type of work I was doing, or, in the case of the uni, even respond to my concerns about what was occurring at placement. Basically, I was treated more like a worker than a student and made to do serious overtime and complete tasks that I believe were outside my role. I tried to handle it professionally, bring it up to my supervisor who kept telling me they were busy and pushing back our supervision. Then I called and emailed the uni to no response.

The stress of the placement got to me and my mental health declined leading to the aforementioned incident and me ending up in hospital. The uni seems like all they want to do is cover themselves as well as the placement provider, and have even accused me of lying about correspondence to the uni and my supervisor related to the concerns I was having. I have the documented evidence to provide including emails, texts etc. But when I asked the uni if I could provide this, they didn't bother responding. How should I handle this? The uni has been useless as well as the uni advocate.

While I understand the uni is all about policy and procedure, I don't think its fair for them to look at the breach in isolation from their own negligence in providing me what I am paying them for, as well as the placement provider which basically neglected my need to be supervised and supported in doing the work. Do I have a case? Any advise would be welcomed.

The incident relates to me attending placement under the influence of an illicit substance after not having slept the night prior. I had a few assigned tasks that day- including driving. I realize this was serious, but at the same time I don't think I was thinking rationally due to the compounding stress of the situation. I was called into a meeting with the supervisor and disclosed this. I did contact the liaison prior to this happening- the person between uni and the placement- to no response. Hence I felt I had no other avenues left. I attended the placement the next day and management was notified and I was terminated from placement in a meeting.

Education & Work

closed Comments

  • PVA on 17/08/2015 - 17:28
    +20

    have you spoken to the student union rep.

  • pennae on 17/08/2015 - 17:30

    Seek advice through your university's guild - this is probably the best advice!

  • xyron on 17/08/2015 - 17:53
    +21

    what was the incident?

    you won't get any useful advice on here unless you put up more details about what has happened, and you probably shouldn't be posting about such things in a public forum. I agree with the above, see your campus union rep.

  • imcjb on 17/08/2015 - 17:55
    +37

    The "truth" in these sort of things is always "somewhere in the middle". Your post is deliberately vague for a reason. Best to seek legal advice if you think it will affect your ability to graduate. What a first post to make!

  • KaTst3R on 17/08/2015 - 18:04

    Just reading the title before clicking into this thread, I thought the person in the below video was finally called up by the Uni's council for hearing.

    https://youtu.be/Ou6l8pESrOY

  • jaykay on 17/08/2015 - 18:12
    +37

    Very vague description

    You are hiding something

    If you want us to help then why not tell us the full story?

    Just my 2c

  • mwah on 17/08/2015 - 18:35

    yes this has happened to me and still bothers me as i got no justice for it. Was this sydney by any chance? It's probably better you pm me.

    • PVA on 17/08/2015 - 19:20
      +2

      what happened to you exactly?

  • toniyellow on 17/08/2015 - 18:47
    +2

    As others mentioned you should find someone independent of the Faculty at your university to assist. There will be lots of rules about disciplinary hearings that would be best navigated with someone experienced. Either the Student Union, or a Student Advocacy/Counselling service, there will be someone who assists students with these regularly. If you say the uni advocate was useless, you either haven't found the right person, or you have really got off on the wrong foot because they are trained to deal with these situations. If you have a mental health problem, start with the counselling service, particularly if a consequence of that is that you don't communicate politely or don't handle stress well.

    Look at the policy section of your student website. There should be something like the Student Conduct rules that they will be saying you are in breach of. There is probably also a policy and procedure for discipline hearings, with information on how it works, and the possible penalties, if you can bring someone to the committee and if so if they can talk or if they must be silent, if you can submit something in advance in writing etc. They probably have to investigate for a minimum amount of time. You probably have the right to have the hearing deferred at least once if you need to.

    The uni is not one amorphous entity. Make sure you indicate you are contacting the right people when you say " I called and emailed the uni to no response."
    Universities are bureaucracies and love their paperwork, but they at least normally pick up the phone, and respond to emails - I find it weird you have got no response from anyone unless you are being rude enough they have decided you are a danger and are not interacting with you on purpose. If they state you must use your student email address to communicate, make sure you are doing so

    If you went to hospital because of this it is in your best interest as well to have everything documented - you were likely covered by some kind of insurance going on your placement, and if it is directly related, it could cover anything ongoing if that occurs.

    If you made any errors you should admit them first up when you are talking with them. Don't just push all the blame back on them. You are an adult.

    If you truly get no help at the university, there is a Student Ombudsman in each state you could contact.

  • mwah on 17/08/2015 - 18:56
    -1

    The uni's do not care and there's nothing to really protect a student, this is why they get away with it

    • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 19:08
      +2

      Actually, there are plenty of mechanisms in place for this eventuality. While it's easy to assume that the universities close ranks to protect their own, there are student liaisons and affairs that exist to prevent exploitation, especially in public institutions.

  • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 19:00
    +3

    What was the course, and incident? Hate to doubt you, but you're not giving us the whole story.

    I was treated more like a worker than a student and made to do serious overtime and complete tasks that I believe were outside my role

    You'll need to elaborate. I had placements during my undergraduate and yes, some would require you to undertake overtime, or even work overnight shifts. That's just part of the process. Unless it's defined as an observational placement, you're there to gain practical skills and get your hands dirty (so to speak); not all of this will be pleasant and is supposed to prepare you for work in that field. Some unscrupulous placements would absolutely take advantage of unpaid students and make them do things outside their role like fetch coffee, you're supposed to bring this up with your unit co-ordinator.

    even accused me of lying about correspondence to the uni and my supervisor related to the concerns I was having. I have the documented evidence to provide including emails, texts etc.

    Which uni is this? I find it difficult to believe a university will call you out here. If you have evidence such as student email with time stamps and/or read receipts, and you're certain you're in the right, then you're in the clear here, because it's impossible to fabricate.

    The stress of the placement got to me and my mental health declined leading to the aforementioned incident and me ending up in hospital.

    Did you visit a GP or counselor, and have records to prove that it's directly related to your placement?

    Should I get a lawyer? Is it likely that I will be excluded?

    Don't know enough. There are always bodies like the ombudsman that exist outside your faculty to investigate this sort of thing. There are student services which are independent of the university, though help may be limited. If all else fails (it shouldn't, if what you've said is true), but be prepared to lawyer up.

  • mwah on 17/08/2015 - 19:07
    +1

    You never believe something until it happens to you.

    • kima on 18/08/2015 - 14:53

      I don't find it hard to believe you. I agree with you and it boggles my mind why people act like that too.

  • Davo1111 on 17/08/2015 - 19:10
    +22

    see a lawyer. There are many ways to get free legal advice, ozbargain is not one of them.

    • Lysander on 18/08/2015 - 18:25
      -2

      +1 from me!

  • stemcell on 17/08/2015 - 19:11
    +2

    That's McDonalds for you.

  • grasstown on 17/08/2015 - 19:12
    +1

    "The stress of the placement got to me and my mental health declined leading to the aforementioned incident "

    if you were unwell during the breach, you would be okay. if you were well during the breach, it might be a factor to excuse your conduct and mitigate the degree of consequences.

    A placement and stress can cause a quick rapid decline in mental health.

  • mwah on 17/08/2015 - 19:14
    -8

    I agree with Davo see if you have a case. I can't believe this crap still happens to students. I wish i was aware of these mechanisms when i was bawling my eyes out 7 years ago.

    • PVA on 17/08/2015 - 19:24
      +12

      yes, we heard you all the other comments.
      But you also have not said exactly what happened to you.

      • kima on 18/08/2015 - 14:57
        -1

        he/she doesn't have to tell you what happened to them. Its obvious to me there is some PTS happening there and you are not the right person to be providing help because your attitude is not suitable.

        • caramellokoala on 18/08/2015 - 16:29
          +8

          Here we have it folks it Ozbargains very own Doctor Phil. Able to diagnose mental disorders over the internet in 500 words or less.

          What are your qualifications to diagnose OP and lecture people on what they should and shouldn't say?

        • kima on 18/08/2015 - 21:19

          @caramellokoala: I said PTS not PTSD. Nice attempt at a straw-man argument though :)

        • caramellokoala on 18/08/2015 - 21:45
          +2

          @kima: Except there is no such thing as PTS alone, to have PTS you have to have PTSD, otherwise it's just stress. Unless as a clear expert in the field you can you refer me to the medical journal that defines this PTS differentiator you seem to know of?

          P.s Doctor Phil, PTSD is found in people that have experienced severely traumatic events such as wars, deaths, torture etc. it's usually not found in drug taking university students who can't handle their university practicals. Just for future reference.

          Insert passive aggressive smug smiley

        • kima on 18/08/2015 - 21:56
          -6

          @caramellokoala: You are no expert and what you said is a load of nonsense. I am not going to continue with nonsense like you are posting. Have a good night :)

        • dgu123 on 18/08/2015 - 22:16
          -3

          You sir are full of bs. You know nothing about me. So take ur smug attitude elsewhere. When the time comes you need help I hope no one bothers with you.

        • caramellokoala on 18/08/2015 - 22:24
          +6

          @kima: Translation: I've been caught out talking crap about a subject I have no idea about now I'm leaving this thread with my tail between my legs.

          Feel free to actually answer either of my questions should you want to prove otherwise.

    • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 19:38

      I wish i was aware of these mechanisms when i was bawling my eyes out 7 years ago.

      I started uni over seven years ago, and these mechanisms definitely existed back then. Every university in the country explains your rights and privileges during orientation; there are processes for complaints and appeals, student-run unions, independent ombudsmen, etc. If you got screwed by an unjust proceeding (something that is very uncommon) because you didn't seek help, that's on you. You're probably a legal adult when you start uni, you can't plead ignorance.

      Just a quick google search provided the following resources for USYD, UNSW, UTS, Macquarie, UWS, etc.

      • kima on 18/08/2015 - 14:59
        +1

        because you didn't seek help, that's on you

        People with mental illness are not always capable to do anything. Its like your telling an irrational person that they should be rational.

        • dgu123 on 18/08/2015 - 22:17

          Thank you there are some understanding people in the world. The lack of understanding of mental health is astounding.

        • kima on 18/08/2015 - 22:43

          @dgu123: yes its almost impossible for arrogant people like that to comprehend it. I often see people explaining depression the same as feeling depressed grief or sadness. They have had no experience but they still know better than everyone who has. I would like to show you something amazing, can you pm me please

        • SydStrand on 18/08/2015 - 22:56
          +4

          Firstly, the university can only meet halfway by providing those services, students have to seek them. Now, if you think basic help-seeking behaviour is unreasonable, then real life is going to be a real shocker, because there are even fewer safety nets after you leave the training wheels of uni (supervisors, co-ordinators, free counselling).

          If the OP was beginning to feel stressed, as is normal, he should have sought help (especially if he's working around vulnerable people), that's basic duty of care: help yourself first. Now, assuming he was not supported at all (something I believe less and less), there are avenues outside his faculty contact, as listed above.

          Lastly, your assumptions about mental health are offensively oversimplified. I myself, suffered from personal loss during my undergrad, during a year I was undergoing pracs, and had to take leave because I was unfit to work around patients, putting me a year behind my entry cohort. Much later, I completed a master's in research with a focus on mental health service in resource-poor regions. Of course I take these issues seriously, and it's not even in my nature to doubt the ill. However, it's becoming quite clear that the OP is only slowly fleshing out his initially vague story with what should have been pertinent information. Story about 'serious misconduct' > what was it? > showed up to prac high > drove > work with the vulnerable > verbally abused my superior. This is beginning to sound pretty damning. I'm genuinely sorry the OP had such a miserable experience at prac, but he screwed up. Bad. Worse, he jeopardised others in his care. If he was an employee, he'd be fired and maybe even charged with gross negligence. Others are right, he's lucky the practice didn't call the cops.

          EDIT: So I just read this.

          I was not impaired and completed the tasks fine. My mistake was disclosing it.

          So the OP was at least lucid and capable enough to perform the tasks of what I assume is very demanding and challenging work, and his only regret is admitting it. If he could do that, he could have made phone calls and sought help. This scenario of helplessness is sounding less and less liely.

  • caramellokoala on 17/08/2015 - 19:22
    +36

    The incident relates to me attending placement under the influence of an illicit substance after not having slept the night prior.

    There we have it, Case closed.

    • kima on 18/08/2015 - 15:00
      -2

      and that's why they didn't tell you, because of your behaviour right there. judgemental and unhelpful

      • caramellokoala on 18/08/2015 - 16:11
        +12

        I'm sorry what? How is that being judgemental and unhelpful? Do you speak for the OP or are you just being a patronising troll?

        There isn't really any extenuating circumstances why this person took drugs then proceeded to break the law(and also endangered the public in the process). There is no moral ambiguity here, or over criticality on my part, society(and by virtue the university) have deemed this practice serious misconduct. Hence why I pointed out there was nothing the OP can do. What do you want me to do, pat OP on the head and tell him he is is right when he is clearly in the wrong? THAT would be unhelpful and misleading.

        Nice attempt at a straw-man argument though.

  • dgu123 on 17/08/2015 - 19:24

    The external advocacy available to students is useless- the advocate lady I met sat in the meeting with the uni and took notes- she did not speak on my behalf once, even when the uni accused me of lying when I had the printed evidence in front of me. Not just that- the faculty lady accused me of calling the uni abusively a few times, stating they had my number recorded- when this did not occur- and stated that this would be used in the 'investigation.'I was flabbergasted that she mentioned this in front of everyone else present as if it was fact- this did not happen. She did not even offer to elaborate. This is why I find this so unfair- its like there is no recourse for students or anyone to truly advocate for the student. When I ended up in hospital the uni had stated they would support me- all I got was accusations and lies- they don't even care to look at my evidence or look at the context of the incident. They are happy to take my money without even giving me what I pay them for.

    • caramellokoala on 17/08/2015 - 19:32
      +31

      What do you want them to do? You've admitted you committed a crime whilst at a university sanctioned external placement, you should consider yourself lucky they didn't call the police. How about you own up to some personal responsibility? No lawyer is going to touch your case with a ten foot pole because the university is well within their rights.

    • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 19:45
      +13

      If what you've said is true, the faculty's fault was not giving you the support you needed earlier. That said, this incident goes beyond the unprofessional. If you drove while under the influence of an illicit substance, you were committing a crime on placement. Worse, you admitted this to the supervisor. The university vouches for its students when it sends them out and now they'll definitely side with the practice because you broke code of conduct. You're welcome to lawyer up but I suspect you're probably screwed.

    • toniyellow on 17/08/2015 - 20:42
      +33

      Dude. By 'extremely unprofessional' I was expecting that you had some kind of meltdown at work and swore at a colleague or send some ill advised emails to a customer. If you drove under the influence of drugs, you are lucky they didn't involve the police who would not care at all about the context.

      They are happy to take my money without even giving me what I pay them for.

      Did you go to a private school to have this kind of mentality? So many people seem to expect that money + showing up > degree > job. The university to guarantee you the opportunity to learn. If you are expecting to have someone babysit you, you would be paying the kind of fees they pay in the US for education.

      The internships coordinator might be bad at their job, but the fact they didn't reply to your call/email in however many days you gave it does not give you 'no other avenues'. You had plenty of options - contact someone else at the university, call in sick for work, speak to HR at the workplace.

      It doesn't sound like you know how serious what you did is. You really do need legal aid, and if you want any chance of not being excluded, you should start expressing as much remorse as possible. Demonstrate to them you know it was serious. Start some kind of drugs counselling as well as psychological counselling to demonstrate you have the coping skills not to do it again.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 19/08/2015 - 01:53

        "So many people seem to expect that money + showing up > degree > job."

        You are absolutely correct. The tragedy is that it's becoming true to an extent, at least re the degree. It won't be long now until most Australian uni degrees are considered comparable to sommat you can acquire over the internet, as quick as the postal service can deliver it to you.

  • BuyoTheCat on 17/08/2015 - 20:29
    +3

    You need proper legal aid buddy. If you feel student advocacy is not giving you adequate help, try community legal aid.

    I wish you good luck.

    • twocsies on 18/08/2015 - 01:26

      I agree. Decide on your goals and get a lawyer to demonstrate that you are serious. From what I can understand, your goal is to erase the bad placement and have the chance to do a new placement elsewhere to complete the degree. Not sure whether that must occur at the current educational provider or with a different one, but a lawyer should be able to help you transfer the completed studies to somewhere better, where they make you feel like they respect you.

      • herbertg21 on 18/08/2015 - 22:27
        -1

        Say he drove under the influence and killed a family member would you still say lawyer up, its the units fault they didnt respect you?

  • DealzEddy123 on 17/08/2015 - 20:30

    umm what was your "role" during practical placement?
    isn't the whole point of practical placement to experience work like a real "worker"?

    I don't agree with the overtime since you were unpaid though. But I doubt the tasks they had you do were seriously unreasonable. Maybe a bit lame and non-educational… but that's part of "real work".

    • grasstown on 17/08/2015 - 20:57

      Is it unpaid? That would suck

      • DealzEddy123 on 17/08/2015 - 21:01

        haha dunno i just assumed. If it was paid, then it helps his case even less

      • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2015 - 22:56

        Many clinical placements through uni are unpaid. Example: radiographers at Sydney Uni have to undertake several 6 weeks long placements throughout their degree. Unpaid. It's tough but they're invaluable learning experiences.

        • grasstown on 17/08/2015 - 23:03

          That's unfortunate. I'm sure you learn a lot, but it's true exploitation. dime a dozen

        • airzone on 19/08/2015 - 09:44
          +3

          @grasstown: Yes and no. Having both experienced and managed people doing "uni work experience", it's a valuable chance to learn the practical stuff you don't learn at uni. But to manage these people is a drain on your resources, and 99% of the time aren't worth paying for.. None the less, I still do it.. I see it as an investment in the younger generation because how can they be expected to learn if nobody gives them the chance?

  • KnifeEnthusiastBoi on 17/08/2015 - 20:35

    I am preparing to do placements in an industry where possibilities for this thing can often happen. However one thing that i am supposed to have when i am doing my placement/just before i start, is professional indemnity insurance.

    I am not exactly sure what industry you are in, but if you are in the allied health industry, mental health industry, or medicine, or any sort of profession where legal repercussions can be severe and costly, you should get professional indemnity insurance.

    However from what limited information you have provided, you have said you attended placement under the influence of illicit substance - this is clearly illegal and breaches the code of conduct (not even considering the driving aspect). I am a psych student and our universities are VERY adamant when it comes to us reading and understanding the code of conduct. If you are in the allied health industry then by being under the influence of illicit substance you are putting the lives of others at risk in a high risk environment. Professional indemnity insurance will not cover you for malpractice of that resort. Sounds like you really do need legal advice, and you should probably ask them what you can do to take responsibility in a way that will not give you a criminal record or affect your future job prospects.

    • caramellokoala on 17/08/2015 - 21:05
      +30

      Ok so you're blaming the university and your placement for you taking this illicit substance? Can you explain how they physically forced you to take it? Also, how exactly does taking an illicit drug relate to you not receiving support on your prac? You seem to be drawing a very long bow to correlate anything here..

    • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 22:23
      +7

      Your role in placement is to learn- not to have work palmed to you like a worker and throwing you in the deep end when you get little instruction or opportunity to debrief on the work

      That's how many placements are, especially if you're in your third year or over; it's supposed to ease you into full-time work in that field, with instruction on the side. What you're describing is neither uncommon nor unexpected. Even if you were at a really crappy practice and even if you didn't get any support from the faculty, how does that equate to you winding up in the hospital or resorting to drugs? After all, I'm sure the practice has actual employees who are there for months and years, not just weeks as you probably were. If you couldn't handle that, you would have failed that placement anyway… and if you admitted that you showed up and drove while high, you just nailed your own coffin.

  • djmatt24 on 17/08/2015 - 21:35
    +19

    I sympathise with your situation as when I was at uni doing teaching I was put under a huge level of stress by one of my placements, resulting in many sleepless nights and a battering of my mental wellbeing. It was really tough.

    HOWEVER

    The drug taking seals the deal. You didn't have to take it, there were still avenues available to you. If you were in a high-stress situation and you turned to drugs, then you need to reconsider any future high-stress career you are studying for. If it was teaching or anything in a hospital, walk away now.
    From the Uni's POV, you were representing them and caused a pretty serious incident. They will want to run far away from you, and they'd be right to do so.

    Take a step back. I don't think the Uni will support you at all now. The BEST outcome may be that you ask to leave quietly, and apply for credits for your completed units at a different uni down the track.

    • SydStrand on 17/08/2015 - 22:28
      +1

      It doesn't help my case that I verbally abused my supervisor and the manager in the termination meeting after taking some anxiety meds and drinking that morning and they had to get me carted off to hospital.

      You really could have mentioned this earlier.

      And the fact I was working with vulnerable people

      That too.

      You really have nothing to lose, so appeal all you want. If you feel your case is just, then by all means, get legal aid. IMO, I think you'll be wasting money on a lost cause. If you can, follow the above advice: avoid an exclusion, scrape together your credits, gather your thoughts and transfer to somewhere else down the line (though the inevitable suspension will probably hurt you in applying for any competitive degree).

    • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2015 - 23:09
      +39

      Plus, there seems to be little understanding of mental health issues here- the point was I was not thinking rationally.

      Firstly, that won't fly in a court of law, so that's one thing to ponder. Fact is you put vulnerable people at risk by you showing up to the placement under the influence of drugs and alcohol, regardless of what circumstances may have led you to take such things. How exactly would that go in the real world? You'd be fired if you were an employee. What if something happened to the people in your care at the time? No excuse or explanation of yours will exonerate you from serious punishment there.

      You really do need to stop trying to give yourself justification for what you did. I myself have done clinical placements throughout my uni degree.. 6 week long blocks at that, unpaid, in busy hospitals and clinics, often working in incredibly stressful situations. We weren't always babied and supervised as per the rules. We were often made to work harder than the actual employees, doing tasks beyond our initial capabilities and beyond the criteria set by uni for each placement. But you deal with it - remind yourself how much you're learning.. real life experience which you won't learn at uni. You get on with it. I'm fairly certain that anyone who has undertaken placements via their uni degrees can say exactly the same about their experiences.

      Re: mental health - if you lack the tools to cope in the field, or to cope in difficult situations in life in general, to the point where you resort to unhelpful/harmful things like substance abuse - you need to address that. Even if this was a one off and you've never taken illicit substances before, or turned to anti anxiety meds and alcohol when stressed. Fact is you did it once, while working in the field you are meant to have a career in after your uni studies. How will you cope then? Perhaps this degree isn't for you? Perhaps you should seek outside help for your 'mental health issues' too, if you're seriously prone to thinking completely irrationally (btw, no judgement here re: mental health issues.. I've battled my fair share of serious illnesses, so I get it, I really do, but it's never an excuse for your behaviours. They're an explanation of your behaviours if anything… the next step you need to take it so to work on the causes. Get some psych help. You'll be better off for it in so many ways).

      I really believe that they were in the wrong just as much as I was.

      Life isn't always fair. Crap like that will happen again in your life, where your needs aren't being met. Again, though, if there's an issue with you lacking coping skills to get you through those situations.. you need to get some help with that.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2015 - 22:33
    +10

    Regardless of the outcome from uni, this placement indicates this is clearly not the line of work for you. If you can't handle a little intern work without resorting to drugs, then you are in the wrong business.

    • dgu123 on 17/08/2015 - 22:48
      -7

      This wasn't just a little intern work sitting at a desk all day doing admin. This is one of the most difficult fields you can work in. You try it, and well see how your mental health holds up. If you love hearing about trauma all day with no one to debrief to, then this is right up your alley.

      • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2015 - 22:57
        +36

        If you're not up to working in the field.. perhaps you shouldn't be in it.

        • GaryQ on 18/08/2015 - 12:36
          +7

          To be fair, I've heard that Drug and Alcohol Counselors can hook you up with the best gear

      • [Deactivated] on 17/08/2015 - 23:06
        +4

        So its not up your alley, if you can't handle work experience, you can't handle the job which will be invariably harder. Use this as a learning experience and move on. This is what work experience is for, to show you the realities of a job. Maybe you can use some of your credits towards another degree.

      • SydStrand on 18/08/2015 - 00:32

        What exactly was this placement? Because I've done 6 week blocks of rural practice, some which involved 6 day full-time work weeks and being available for 7PM-7AM shifts. It's not easy and because shit rolls downhill, many of us worked even harder than paid employees. No, it's not easy. However, it's something you had to know was in the cards. If you couldn't cope with it on prac and had to use drugs, you need to re-consider if it's something you can do as a career.

      • Pinchie on 19/08/2015 - 10:46
        +2

        They didn't say you are any less for it not being suitable work for you. I provide IT support in the disability sector, particularly disability accommodation, and I can tell you for a rolled-gold fact that I could not do the carers/support workers' job. It would break me. It would break a large number of people. It broke you too.

        Waterlogged turnip also didn't say that they COULD do it, so there's no need to come back with the "Yeah well let's see how you do" retort. It doesn't wash. They simply pointed out the overarching fact you've managed to blind yourself to - it clearly wasn't for you in the first place. If anything, you should be thanking them for being restrained enough to not point out that you made it worse by your own hand, without any provocation. I will happily point that out to you. You screwed yourself.

        There's nothing wrong in admitting the job was too much - high-needs support and high stress go hand-in-hand. There is EVERYTHING wrong in going there impaired by substances and subsequently failing to provide due and proper support, resulting in you requiring support yourself. It's astounding how petulant you must be to sit there and point fingers at the university and work placement providers.

  • Findo on 18/08/2015 - 00:49

    Better lawyer up. Most student unions have free lawyers.

    • djones145 on 18/08/2015 - 10:03
      +2

      Yep, get off ozbargain and get professional help, ur in a terrible situation!

  • [Deactivated] on 18/08/2015 - 08:57
    +4

    When people get overwhelmed with stress they can do sh..y things. Maybe you hurt yourself, hurt someone else, or try and find some way to retreat from the stress. The university was as fault for not providing you enough support. But they're not responsible for the thing you did to try and de stress.
    My advice would be sit back, don't let your emotions lead you down a self destructive path. Apologise for what you did then take a break. It may not seem like it now, but if you take the nothing to lose approach, you may actually be making your future self's life significantly harder. Maybe you can't finish your studies the easy you planned, but there will be something else. I hope things go well for you

  • Chik5555 on 18/08/2015 - 09:06
    +1

    Your best bet in my view and experience is to take responsibility for your actions and convince them you won't do it again. I haven't read all the comments etc but it seems that you're saying you did do what was alleged and they know it. Admit you did something really unprofessional and unsafe. Tell them how much you regret it and have learned in hindsight. Tell them what you would do differently next time, and mean it.

    See a doctor/psychologist/counsellor etc so, if it is the case, they can provide a statement about your health and that you are seeking rehabilitation etc.

    Ask for another interview given you left the first one. Be sincere and if given another opportunity to respond take it rather than walking out even if you feel patronised.

    Hope this helps.

      • Chik5555 on 18/08/2015 - 14:08

        Definitely put that stuff on the table for sure too. I just mean you have to own responsibility for what you did if you want the best chance of a favourable outcome.

      • Pinchie on 19/08/2015 - 10:52
        +8

        they were also at fault, as was as the placement

        Don't forget to blame the drug dealer. They should never have sold you a drug that you asked and paid for if it could put poor, dear, sweet, innocent you in such a delicate situation when you're supposed to be taking care of other people. That's totally unprofessional of them, and is a clear violation of their duty of care.

        I would take your dealer into the disciplinary hearing to support your claims of it being everyone's fault when it's solely yours.

  • bargaintypeperson123 on 18/08/2015 - 10:59
    +2

    Everyone falls some time. It's not the fall that matters. It's how you get back up that you will be judged on. You need to lift yourself up, not try and drag them into the mud with you.

    In all honesty it sounds like you seriously (profanity) up and are looking for someone to blame for your actions. Are you sure you're ready to be an adult yet?

  • Davo1111 on 18/08/2015 - 12:25
    +5

    The incident relates to me attending placement under the influence of an illicit substance after not having slept the night prior. I had a few assigned tasks that day- including driving.

    Jesus christ.

  • SlickMick on 18/08/2015 - 12:37
    +1

    I feel for you in that you've made a huge blunder that is probably going to affect the rest of your life.
    I just hope that you can learn a lesson from this. It might change your life for the better rather than the worse.

  • phoenixx on 18/08/2015 - 12:41
    +2

    You had an accident whilst on drugs at a university placement? From the way you are wording things it's seems you are blaming you placement company for you decision to come in high.

    • dgu123 on 19/08/2015 - 10:20
      -1

      There was no accident or incident.

  • globalgirl on 18/08/2015 - 12:54
    +26

    At the risk of sounding like a cranky old woman, you are really one of "those" kids giving your generation a bad name. You effed up. In a major way. The lack of support from the uni. The lack of support from the placement…in no way, ever ever ever ever, makes them at fault for you taking drugs and driving while under the influence, putting vulnerable people in a potentially dangerous situation.

    Suck it up. Admit you were wrong. That no-one else is "equally to blame". The sector obviously isn't for you. Cut your losses. Grovel as much as you can to get those credits transfered elsewhere. And thank god that you don't have criminal charges pending (because, quite frankly, that's exactly what you deserve in this case).

    Harsh, Maybe. But stop being such a baby and grow up!!

    • kima on 18/08/2015 - 15:17
      -8

      actually it does. OH&S makes employers responsible. Employees are entitled to stress leave when employers cause harm to employees in this manner.

      Your attitude is a major reason why people end up in situations like this in the first place.

      • Gareth on 18/08/2015 - 16:25
        +5

        Oh, come on.

        Yes, OP should have been able to access some sort of leave. Perhaps the 'employer' (whomever in this circumstance you might apply that to) could or should have provided some assistance (assuming they knew everything, which considering the cagey way the description of this incident has been posted here is hard to be confident of).

        HOWEVER, Each of us has personal responsibility for our actions. OP stuffed up big time, and is now reaping the consequences. This is a time of taking responsibility, and trying to mitigate this and turn it into a beginning for a new direction.

        Kima, you consistently have been attacking anyone above who isn't nannying OP…. do you know them?

        • sobes on 18/08/2015 - 19:44
          +2

          I agree with your opinion, but trying to claim that the only reason kima is disagreeing is because she knows the OP is just weak. Leave an argument to the facts, don't introduce nonsense.

        • kima on 18/08/2015 - 21:06
          -3

          @sobes: yes that is weak, its good to have your own opinion but obviously Gareth can't handle when people don't accept his version of things and have a different opinion so that must mean people are conspiring against him.

          You don't have to agree with me. I will not be jumping on the bandwagon just because you can't handle any opposition

        • Gump on 19/08/2015 - 00:34
          +1

          +1 for personal responsibility for our actions!

  • theguyrules on 18/08/2015 - 13:23
    +7

    I've been in a similar situation. The place I did my uni work placement was awful, I fell behind in my work massively and was working completely alone. I ended up depressed and very uncertain if I wanted to work in my field that I had been studying for 4 years. But, through talking to friends and family I realized that uni isn't the be all and end all, and that I didn't have to graduate straight away. I decided to 'quit' uni for the semester, take some time off for mental health, and pick it up again next semester. So whilst I understand where you have been, it was your decision to handle it how you did, and you will have to deal with the consequences. But I wish you luck man. Don't let one bad work experience ruin it for you.

  • DiscoJango on 18/08/2015 - 13:35
    +4

    im a bit concerned how your actually going to do when you get a real full time job that has real stress and real O.T. will you spend every week in hospital due to "stress"?

    i think you need to get yourself properly medically checked out

  • SnakeCasablanca on 18/08/2015 - 14:00
    +31

    "Hi all, I've found myself in quite a tricky situation."

    Oh do go on… We all find ourselves in tricky situations from time to time. Usually we can overcome them.

    "The incident relates to me attending placement under the influence of an illicit substance after not having slept the night prior. I had a few assigned tasks that day- including driving."

    "And the fact I was working with vulnerable people."

    Oh… Just a misdemeanor / potential felony? I apologise, this is nothing like I or most other people deal with on a day to day basis.

    "They are happy to take my money without even giving me what I pay them for."

    "had I received the support and supervision that is outlined as a part of the subject and what I payed for."

    Im gonna take a giant leap and assume that your family background involves a lot of people paying to make their problems go away… Perhaps a wealthy one?

    "Your role in placement is to learn- not to have work palmed to you like a worker and throwing you in the deep end when you get little instruction or opportunity to debrief on the work- and this was a particularly difficult area to work."

    Hahaha… "Like a worker"… How dare they assume on a placement that you are "like a worker". You are obviously far too superior to be a worker. You have a uni degree and come from a wealthy family. Dont they know that? Although the workers could argue that you're ability to deal with stress without taking drugs and having tantrums and your inability to take accountability for anything in your life probably drags you down.

    "Not just that- the faculty lady accused me of calling the uni abusively a few times, stating they had my number recorded- when this did not occur"

    I guess its just your word against theirs in this situation… Oh wait a minute…

    "It doesn't help my case that I verbally abused my supervisor and the manager in the termination meeting after taking some anxiety meds and drinking that morning and they had to get me carted off to hospital."

    Nope sounds like something you would do.

    " I will have to suck up to them when they know very well they were also at fault, as was as the placement"

    "I was not thinking rationally when it occured"

    "This wasn't just a little intern work sitting at a desk all day doing admin. This is one of the most difficult fields you can work in."

    It seems to me that your response in regards to being called out on the crime you committed is the following:

    Step 1: Get angry.
    Step 2: Rationalise your actions because it was really hard.
    Step 3: Rationalise that everyone else is to partly to blame for your actions.
    Step 4: Complain that you couldn't pay your way out of this situation.

    The steps you should have taken were:

    Step 1: Accept full responsibility.
    Step 2: Apologise and express remorse humbly and often.
    Step 3: Ask what the best case scenario and beg them to help you.

    Until you learn to take responsibility for your actions I dont think you will have a good outcome to this situation or any other that you face in the future.

    • geoffs87 on 18/08/2015 - 14:29

      Was thinking the same thing. Unfortunately in the real world we all face these things - and it is placements such as these that helps universities and employers determine how a potential employee would react/operate in such situations.

      Sure, you weren't being paid cash - you were being paid with experience. In many circles/careers that is worth more to many people.

      I am sorry to hear these things happened to you, but your first couple of years after graduation can often seem like what you described above. If you can't handle it during a placement, you probably won't be able to handle it in the workplace. Take this as a lesson, and further more - my suggestion lawyer up, this could get ugly for you… not the uni.

  • infinite on 18/08/2015 - 14:42
    +6

    OP turned up to a work experience placement under the influence of drugs. There was never going to be any other result other than instant dismissal and some form of punishment (if not exclusions/suspension) from your Uni / College / TAFE.

    OP turned up to work as a risk and danger (from a safety, legal and insurance perspective) to himself and the work colleagues. He also opened up possible legal action between the work place provider and the Uni/College/TAFE too, if anything he did there while under the influence caused damage to the property, people, customers or good will of the company.

    If OP walks away from this still able to attend his place of education, or at least even with his course credits recognised - he should consider himself extraordinarily lucky. OP should probably seek a bit of mental health counseling too, because you'd have to be seriously detached from reality to be in here crying and trying to shift the blame of anything even related to what happened here on to anyone other than himself.

  • ahly92 on 18/08/2015 - 14:53
    +2

    To be blunt. Uve fd up ur life if u continue with that mentality. It seems ur in medicine which is a highly competitive field. where job placement is very hard to get.

    If u had owned up apologised, shown that it was a one off, provided assurance then they would have prob forgaive u BUT ur temperament just prooves ur not acknowledging the 'blessing' u were in. Medicine is very high demand course and for u to throw all uve done to get where u were is just crazy

    I can only see u go downhill from now and if u do Get kicked out (highly lickly given ur stubbornness) I just feel ull go down hill even further from depression and regret

  • lost69 on 18/08/2015 - 14:58
    -1

    So you got high and turned up. So? Look at all the SJWs jumping up and down.

    Jobs come and go. Move on. Its not like you planned to blow the dump up and post it on Liveleak. WOWOOWOW illicit substance!!!!

    Its unaustralian to be constantly sober.

    Lights a fat blunt

  • kima on 18/08/2015 - 15:04
    +8

    This is the wrong place to be discussing issues of mental health. There are people on here who don't get it. They haven't experienced it so they just trivialize mental illness.

    Ozbargain is generally not a particularly friendly environment, only a few members are actually nice so you would be better off in a more supportive environment, try one of the facebook support groups or a counsellor.

    • dgu123 on 18/08/2015 - 19:56
      -5

      Tell me bout it. Talk about a tough crowd.

    • holisticboy on 18/08/2015 - 20:14
      +8

      The mental health issue is not what he is in trouble for. The illegal drugs, while operating vehicles is not only illegal, but also very dangerous

      • kima on 18/08/2015 - 21:34
        +2

        I get that and I am not saying some course of action shouldn't be taken especially one that prevents him from trouble like this, discipline is a different kettle of fish and I wouldn't want to go into that. but what I am saying is you cant expect an irrational person to act rational. they should not have put someone in a position to do whatever it was he has done when he was having a breakdown - he reached out and was ignored! that is not acceptable! they should've acted. doesn't give him a pass to do whatever he wants but you can't expect an irrational person to do rational things. he has stated very clearly he had a breakdown he ended up in hospital over it. a lot of the attacking comments on here want to completely disregard this or trivialize it. You think the courts don't consider mental illness when making judgements?

  • sal78 on 18/08/2015 - 15:57
    -2

    i feel for you. If you had already vouced your concerns before you effed up then they r also partially at fault. This whole situation is not good for your health. Maybe take some time out and see a specialist.

  • centrelink on 18/08/2015 - 16:01
    -7

    Just sue them. You probably get more money back in return.. worttthh it.

  • R3XNebular on 18/08/2015 - 18:06
    +8

    Illicit substance… curious what did you take since you were drug driving which is a serious offence. I am pretty sure if you ended up killing someone on the road you'd still be blaming others instead of accepting responsibility.

  • Lysander on 18/08/2015 - 18:29
    +1

    See if you are eligible for Legal Aid.
    A lawyer is the best solution here.
    Also, please ensure that you document everything, including and especially the mental health and hospital issues.

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