Windows Phone Users, Finally We Will Be Able to Use Android Apps

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  mskeggs on 10/08/2015 - 11:57

  Well, it worked for Blackberry! /sarcasm

  • 

    iridiumstem on 10/08/2015 - 12:03

    Definitely, instead of making Windows Phone stand out by providing better, fluent integration with the desktop OS or making a killer app for Windows Phone, by making it replacable by any old Android phone, will surely bring more people to Windows Phone. Not to mention, MS should also port those apps that makes Windows Phone different, i.e Cortana and Office related apps, to other major OS. That will certainly bring more people to Windows Phone.

    • 

      mskeggs on 10/08/2015 - 12:10

      Win phones advantages were its low overhead so it could get similar performance from a generation behind hardware, and its potential to integrate with other MS products and services. It could offer killer enterprise integration if it did some secure/innovative Outlook things, for example.
      This is a crazy move, as it will highlight the more modest hardware's limitations, plus presumably add overhead as the abstraction layer between the app and the winOS translates.
      Which dev will make native winphone apps now?

      • 

        iridiumstem on 10/08/2015 - 12:13

        Meh, I always get the feeling, whenever I see MS doing something like this, MS operates on the mindset of "I can extort more from enterprises, everything else is just my side business". I don't know, that mindset will be the downfall of MS in my opinion, if MS do not change and if, there is a big if, MS will ever fall, that is.

        Meh, I've heard someone saying, there is no point in worrying about giant cooporations and rich people, they usually have someone who they've paid to do that job.

      • 

        Snoovey on 10/08/2015 - 19:56

        Win phones advantage over Android is that it is secure. MS controls the software and updates and does not let OEMs meddle with it. Maybe 90% of Android phones are vulnerable to active exploits. They will be careful how they let Android apps behave.

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        iridiumstem on 10/08/2015 - 21:58

        @Snoovey: I think you have the story slightly backwards. The reason why an OS with direct updates from one source is better in terms of security is because the security updates can be done quicker.

        If you look at Nexus, for example, the stagefright have been patched with all the Nexuses (Nexi?). With their partners, the story becomes complicated as who supplies the updates depends on the device. It's not OEMs creating new loopholes or anything like that (in fact, some features of KNOX solution was integrated into Lollipop, I believe, for better security).

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  verio on 10/08/2015 - 12:18

  As far as I know there is a similar project for iOS app developers from Microsoft (that allows porting existing iOS app to Windows Mobile in a more straightforward way).

  Anyway, even if they somehow make iOS or Android apps work well on Windows Mobile devices (which is unlikely in my humble view), it still will be an incomplete solution. Design guidelines for iOS and Android and quite different, not to mention user experience patterns. I am pretty sure that the majority of developers are not going to redesign their existing apps for this project, otherwise they would have already developed native apps for Windows Mobile.

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  scrimshaw on 10/08/2015 - 12:21

  Usability disaster ensues. Android apps have their own distinct look and feel (Holo and Material theme) and their UI functions are also a tad different from WInMo apps.

  So now we will have apps that don't follow WinMo design guidelines, like the early days of Android where some apps had IOS views.

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  mskeggs on 10/08/2015 - 13:09

  +1

  As an analogy, you can run Windows apps on MacOS and Linux desktops - up to a point. But it is no substitute for a native Windows machine in performance and bang-for-buck. It is something you only do if you have to.

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    iridiumstem on 10/08/2015 - 13:11

    B-bu-but, what about Bootcamp? Sorry, I just wanted to troll/preemptively mention something that might get mentioned.

    • 

      mskeggs on 10/08/2015 - 13:17

      Exactly, all the convenience of rebooting to run on expensive hardware.
      My main computer is a macbook, but if I had to run a non-native app more than once in a blue moon I would go back to windows.

      • 

        iridiumstem on 10/08/2015 - 13:20

        +1

        I was editing, but meh, I will continue.

        I completely agree, hackintosh will never run as fluently as a Mac. Android will not run as fluently if you use something like DuOS or something like that etc etc. Buy something that runs apps and programs natively. I've seen people trying to port Android onto Surface Pro, it has problems because of driver issues and stuff, even though Surface Pro will be way way above the spec that most Android devices will be at. Besides, Windows Phone isn't even up to the "hardware standard (SoC and RAM)" that Android phones are on at if you look at price level. Android uses more RAM than Windows Phone, because Android allows far far more apps to run in the background than Windows Phone.

        In short, if you are going to use an OS, buy things that runs it natively.

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  NeilBritto on 13/08/2015 - 07:07

  I'd say this is a good step. Now we will be able to use more apps.

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  scupper on 15/08/2015 - 03:44

  i think it's a great idea. Obviously, windows phone by itself wasn't enough to lure people in, so continuing that path would be suicide. The mac only got as much penetration when it became pc-compatible. Sometimes, the flexible mongrel is better than the incompatible pure bred.

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    iridiumstem on 15/08/2015 - 06:18

    The only problem that I see with that approach is, MS would need to use better hardware for (at least on Snapdragon 615 and 410 for its SoC for its mid and low range phones) and MS still needs to provide a reason for producing the apps for Windows Phone.

    I honestly think MS will do neither of them. If WP can run Android apps or iOS apps, as WP has less users (far far less users), app developers have no reasons to produce the apps for Windows Phone. If MS increases its hardware spec to be on par with Android phones, it might work. Then again Mac runs Windows natively and Macs are specced reasonably. With current hardware spec, even if Windows phone runs Android and iOS apps natively, it's just too old hardware that's too expensive. With Android producers now focusing on mid-range as well, I personally think WP has no edge over any of the Android phones range, other than possibly the low price range. Besides, the big problem is, WP doesn't have the big pull that would pull people towards using it. MS is literally giving out what seperates WP from others to the other OS (albeit limited, though in my opinion, not limited enough for people to go, I want more).

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      scupper on 15/08/2015 - 11:07

      One edge that MS has is that it will support phones longer than the 18 months that Android makers usually give to their own phones. A $500+ phone should last longer than that. The security issues coming out of the android platform is scaring me enough to consider switching too. This and longer support would make it a better phone for our less tech-savvy relatives.

      The lack of performance issue is just because they're coming out of concentrating on the low end, a strategy that didn't pan out that well for them. With Continuum, they're setting the phone up as eventually replacing the desktop, so the power will be there in time. And productivity apps and casual games don't require much performance. Android app developers should be able to reduce further impact on low end hardware by recompiling specifically for the windows platform, something MS has been wanting all along.

      MS is a master at compatibility so I have no doubt they can make this work. They'll be making another WINE, Windows is not an emulator. :)

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        iridiumstem on 15/08/2015 - 15:34

        I completely agree with the concerns with Android security. However, whether that will make WP better than all the other OS out there? That's where I feel like I should stop you. I will use a real life example, Blackberry is known for security and they would have longer support. They've introduced ability to run Android apps. Do I need to continue? Besides, most companies that produce its own OS all tend to have better security updates than Android as far as I know, what makes WP better than those companies?

        I could go into custom ROMs for Android (CM for example have patched Stagefright stuff before it became massve), but that feels slightly like cheating for me as it's not avaiable for everyone (though that's an option that most closed OS do not have).

        I do agree that Windows Phone has decent low end phones (from the fact that Windows Phone is better optimised) and I tend to consider recommending it to less tech-savvy people (i.e. my gf had one before she've moved onto Android due to crappy apps). That said, lack of apps (both in quantity and quality) sort of make it hard for me to recommend it to others. Will Android app compatiablity fix this problem?

        As I said, the problem I see with that is even if WPs are running on Android, specs on Windows Phone are below average. Budget Android phones moved onto using Snapdragon 410s, middle range phones have moved onto Snapdragon 615 or better. Many middle range phones now have 2GB RAM. Can Windows Phone with current spec be able to run Android apps without any problems? If yes, then no one will produce apps dedicated for Windows Phone. If no, then what's the difference between having Android apps and not having Android apps? Besides, wouldn't this cause people to move to Android (if what MS said about having Cortana in Android will bring people to WP)?

        The reason that I think Android apps wouldn't run well on current Windows Phone is this. Android go through RAM like crazy. Android apps run in background (far far more than WP apps ever do). While I do hate that kind of style, that's how it is. With 1GB RAM, will WP be able to handle it? For example, messenger apps would need to do that kind of things (I am speaking because of WeChat (which is crap on Windows Phone according to my gf) and Snapchat). Will WP be able to run those without any issues? I will give another example. From Windows Phone 8 to Windows Phone 8.1, they've allowed more updates on the live tiles (from 30 minutes to 1 minute interval). That had negative impact on battery life for me. Android apps would be worse imo.

        You've mentioned that they will improve upon the hardware, but the thing is, look at their *40 series. 640 uses Snapdragon 400, 840 is rummoured to be using Snapdragon 400. My Lumia 925 is still better than those middle range phone whereas my Galaxy S4 Active is already worse than many middle range phones from this year. MS is planning on releasing 940 and 940XL which is on its way to become outdated (i.e. Snapdragon 820 will be coming out early next year or late this year, Exynos Octa is better than Snapdragon 810, yaddi yadda). They might be able to clean up the mess that they've created, but I have my doubts (also that will likely increase the price of the phones further).

        To be honest, if Windows Phone was better than what it is now, i.e far better integration with desktop and better OS, I probably would've moved onto Windows Phone again (from 925 to 930 or wait till 940 (though Snapdragon 810 doesn't sound promising)). I had a Surface Pro and Lumia 925, they didn't work fluently. Saving files on Onedrive and opening it was like Schrodinger's cat, I couldn't be certain whether it had uploaded properly or not (I've moved onto 3rd party Dropbox app on Lumia 925). The sharing details of the WiFi setting was decent but other than that, every thing was a gimmick in my opinion. That said, I will not deny that Nokia did produce a decent hardware and Windows Phone was fast for its spec. Apps were absolutely appalling though; The fact that I could do more office related stuff on Android says it all I think. Personally speaking, I don't think Android apps will run well on hardware spec that's worse than many of 2013 Android phones (even if MS does some kind magic, it probably will be laggy imo). If MS improves its hardware spec, then I will be more than happy. If I didn't like the idea of Windows Phone and its potential, I wouldn't have look into this kind of things (and if the wasted potential didn't make me cringe, I wouldn't have written these walls of texts). I might actually consider going back to WP, if they fix their problems. That said, I have my doubts.

      • 

        scupper on 15/08/2015 - 23:25

        @AznMitch:

        Well, in terms of Blackberry not succeeding, it failed to differentiate itself from other top phones in its price range, i.e. it only brought security features outside of Android compatibility, which was only important to the enterprise, and not sexy enough for the average user. Besides, its Android ability must not have been exceptional that I can't find any Android performance reviews about it outside of opinion on this feature. I'm thinking it was too close to its deathbed for the Android features to have any impact on its lagging sales. I don't think that it could have succeeded very well either as it is only the more recent chips now that are getting powerful enough to accomodate non-native apps.

        I think Windows Phone is able to get past the performance penalty of Android compatibility by using API translation like WINE (an assumption as it's still too early to get much documentation about it), so the overhead is minimal, and since the OS isn't as heavy as the Android OS (an assumption), it should have the same, if not better performance as equivalent Android phones. Also, Android is notorious for letting apps run in the background, even those that shouldn't need to, and reducing battery life. Windows Phone is much more strict about this and actually have user settings to enable which apps you will allow to run in the background so battery life shouldn't be a big issue. I've consistently seen Windows phones reaching 2 days or more before needing a charge while Android phones won't last a day. I haven't tried the Windows 10 Mobile preview so I don't know if they have improved on the issues you have mentioned.

        Like you, I don't find the hardware specs of Windows Phones to be cutting edge enough. And when they price these phones at the same range as much more powerful Android phones, I probably won't bite. But on the low end, they do match well with most Android phones of the same price range. I am tempted by the cheap but powerful Chinese Android phones, but am a bit concerned about the security issues and possible lack of support. I think Google can only fix this if they start supporting Android the way Microsoft will be supporting Windows 10. It's just ridiculous that I can buy an Android phone with pretty current hardware but be stuck on Kit Kat and no future Lollipop upgrade in sight.

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        iridiumstem on 16/08/2015 - 16:05

        @scupper: Yeah, I think it might've been too soon to say anything about anything. I am slightly concerned that what MS is doing now might cause more people moving to Android and even less apps for WP. Then again, nothing has happened yet and who knows what's going to happen next, maybe I am too pessimistic.

        Windows 10 Mobile was alright. I haven't used it for a long time and there has been fair bit of updates on it since last time I've touched it, so I cannot really say anything much on WP10 other than my first impressions on it. There were some UI changes I liked (the notification bar now has expand option for example) and some UI changes that I didn't like (live tile was missing, then again alpha/beta stage). It was going through the battery faster than 8.1 did, but then again, I haven't done any extensive tests to test that. Overall it was alright for me, final product probably would be a step forward from WP 8.1 at least from what I've seen.

        That said, I haven't played with Windows 10 Mobile for long. The Android phone I own simply does more than what my Windows Phone can do (other than the camera). That said, I'd like to see more improvements on the whole OS, I personally think MS can pull it off with the potential they have with them having control over most of the PC market.

        I'd probably change my current Android phone when it breaks down. I have a replacement battery for it, so probably no sooner than next year. I hope Windows 10 Mobile becomes an attractive option (competition makes everyone better off imo). Heck, I am even considering BlackBerry Venice.

      • 

        scupper on 17/08/2015 - 00:27

        @AznMitch: Having less developers making Windows mobile versions is a risk, but that risk is already mitigated by the Android compatibility so how much of a risk is it really? They're also working on making web-based apps indistinguishable from native apps. Essentially, how it was coded is irrelevant. The point of the OS is to make apps run. This may become a workhorse mongrel as much as Windows for the PC is. It may not look as consistent, but if it gets the job done… I have a spare Lumia 630 lying around but waiting for the final version before trying it out.

        I do find the tile interface a bit pukey though. Maybe too much clashing neon colours.

        The Blackberry Venice looks interesting if you need the BB services. Have they moved away from QNX and going full Android?

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        iridiumstem on 17/08/2015 - 12:52

        @scupper: Venice's going to be on Android,. Samsung and RIM seems to have a partnership of sort, looking at how they are planning to use hardwares from Samsung (i.e. curved display). QWERTY keyboard on a phone is a dying breed, I personally think it has a small but loyal market though (judging from how people who I've met stayed on BB solely for them). I personally want to try it out, or I might go Note 5 with the keyboard attachment (which seems interesting, since it's not using bluetooth like I've expected).

        Anyways, the problem I see with having Android compatiability with no app developers is basically 1. I personally believe it will never run as fluent as native (though this is just my current assumption) 2. MS will lose control over the apps. UIs on the apps will be inconsistent throughout, the regulations on apps will be purely dependent on Google, any possible bugs or anything like that associated from running an app on a Windows Phone (even if you assmue that WP will run Android apps fluently, you cannot assume that the apps will be without bugs) will likely to be addressed by the app developers with low priority. All because the apps will be designed with Android phones in mind.

        That said, I personally think only time will tell. I have a pessimistic view on what's going to happen. Based on the fact that MS haven't shown any moves to improve its mid range and low range (I personally see the current spec inadequate as well), how I personally believe MS would not be able to make it run fluently, how Android app developers wouldn't care about any bugs associated with WP (and how MS will have to fix everything which would be borderline impossible with sheer number of apps) and more importantly, how apps designed for Windows Phone will diminish overall because there is no reason to pay to develop when MS allows using apk files. I will be more than happy to be proven wrong.

        I think you and I have a very different view on how everything's going to turn out. I respect that, this conversation is rather interesting but I don't think I will see this move positively and I think both of us are repeating our words now (well, at least I think I am). I am pessimistic, doesn't mean that I will not deny that WP has potentials and doesn't mean that I will not move back to Windows Phone if it actually becomes better.

        I frankly want to see a move that integrates the Phone and the OS more. I personally want to see what Mac is doing with iOS or what Samsung has done with Sidesync app and program for Windows and Mac. Being able to send out SMS and pick up calls on via laptop, being able to move files from internal storage to PC wirelessly, being able to share mouse and keyboard between PC and phone, that kind of stuff. I personally see that to be what MS should be aiming for with their 3 screens 1 device concept. It's weird how I can do all that on an Android phone but not on Windows Phone, Windows Phone can do much better than Android on this, but yet they don't do anything.

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        scupper on 17/08/2015 - 13:14

        @AznMitch: No worries. Great discussing this with you. I think MS is upping the competition a bit so no doubt Google and Apple will respond in kind. MS could still end up being in 3rd place. I'm not trying to convince you to go Windows, I myself am on Android and may remain there while it has the app advantage.

      • 

        iridiumstem on 17/08/2015 - 13:16

        @scupper: I liked my old Lumia 925, I hope MS gives the OS the umph it needs. Competition in smartphone OS market will definitely bring more fun to follow at least.

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  illumination on 16/08/2015 - 15:24

  Interesting topic but holy crap the comments on this page are tldr!

  • 

    iridiumstem on 16/08/2015 - 15:43

    Heh sorry :P I got excited too much.

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  iridiumstem on 25/08/2015 - 15:23

  I've finally got my phone back and have installed several Android apps on my Windows Phone.
  I have to admit, they run better than I've expected, but I'd rather grab an Android Phone because they were so laggy and unresponsive.
  To test this, I am trying to time how long it takes for the app to open and how long it takes me to log on (but it was fairly random ranging from seconds to minutes, so I am rebooting my phone for a better test environment).

  Anyways, my attitude towards the Windows Phone opening up for APK is very negative. Also, all the Android device I've used are at least 2013 flagship level (Well technically Lumia 925 was from a flagship from that time). So I thought my recollection of experience might be biased and not be telling you guys the full picture.

  So here is the AnTuTu score of Lumia 925 from running the AnTuTu benchmark: http://imgur.com/9EEDIab

  I think the score was approximiately on par with Nexus 4 which was from 2012, though don't quote me on that.

  Here is an AnTuTu score of a phone from a similar time period, Galaxy S4 Active: http://imgur.com/NyNk1W4
  ^I should add that my phone was cool from being near the Window for 30ish minutes (I've left it there and had a nap).

  Since Lumia 925 has better SoC than most of the current gen Lumia (up to 830?), I think they will run worse than mine.

  EDIT:

  I've tried to load WeChat, sign up from there, but it froze up and wouldn't let me go anywhere from the first screen.
  Took 8~10 seconds to load the front screen. If I go to home screen and try to reopen the tab, it crashed.

  Snapchat was better, took around 6 seconds to boot the app up, going back to home screen didn't automatically crashed it. Unfortunately though, it requires Google Service.

  AnTuTu Benchmark runs fine, loads up in 6 seconds period. I could see some lags in responses from it (like there is a visible lag between your touch input and movement). One interesting thing from AnTuTu that I've noticed was that the Android version that it believes the phone is on was KitKat 4.4.4.

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    scupper on 25/08/2015 - 22:40

    My chances of running Android apps on my 630 looks pretty bad then. I've seen some good performance using a 930 on youtube, but they were running simpler apps. Some Xiaomi phones are able to be loaded with the preview so hopefully a powerful, high quality and cheap Windows phone won't be too long coming.

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      iridiumstem on 26/08/2015 - 01:32

      I think the big issue I had with it was, there was so much lags and stutter. I could see my finger moving before the screen starts to move. It felt like there was a delay between input and the response, ranging from milli to few seconds.

      So my conclusion from it is, I think most of the current gen Windows Phone (Snapdragon 400, Snapdragon S4 Plus) wouldn't be good in terms of running the Android app. That said, the benchmark was at least on par with Android phones with similar spec, so maybe there is a hope. Though I am not sure how much of that translated to User Experience (i.e. does it actually run like Nexus 4 and other similarly specced Android Phone? I don't know, I've never used Galaxy S2 nor Nexus 4). It's likely that anything with better hardware would be better at running the apps, judging from the fact that it came with similar benchmark scores as the similarly specced Android phone.

      That said, I'd rather grab an Android phone for the apps, since you can grab something with better hardware spec on Android with same amount of cash. I grabbed an Australian stock LG G2 for less than $300 AUD, similarly specced Lumia 930 costs $500. I am being slightly unfair by choosing a relatively cheap phone, something like Galaxy S4 LTE i9506 would be at $400 mark. That said, Android phones are likely to run better because of ART.

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  scupper on 03/09/2015 - 04:22

  http://androidonwm.com/
  Has computability status on Android apps.