Bond payment for apartment share used for cleaning apartment

Ltradiesunited on 16/07/2015 - 03:36
Last edited 20/07/2015 - 16:05

Hi all,

Just need some community ozbargain advice.

I have rented a share room at an apartment for 9 months and have paid a bond of $500.

When I left the apartment I moved out everything and cleaned my room carefully. I asked my landlord to pay me my bond money back however he said that the room was still unclean and demanded to use the $500 to clean the 'whole' apartment and not just my room. I have not damaged anything in the room and I have cleaned everything. I also have maintained the kitchen and bathroom clean while I was sharing the place.

The issue is that is the landlord allowed to take $500 to clean the 'whole' apartment or only my room. Even though my room is clean. Should I even be paying anything?

Updated information:
I'm renting a room in the apartment. The landlord also lives in the apartment in one room and rents out the other room to another boarder. So there are three rooms in total. We all share the kitchen and bathroom. Do need to pay for the whole apartment or just my room?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

Updated information 20/07/2015
The landlord decided to pay me back after I didn't put up any argument and walked away. However, I did mention to him that I would take the situation to fairtrading. He ended up texting me a few minutes later after leaving the place and saying "It's ok, don't go to fair trading, I will pay you the full $500 bond back". I have decided to give him $100 just in good faith.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 07:02
    +8

    The landlord/agent can't use your bond without your permission even when you are at fault. They need to clearly list the cleaning/repair with the costs and have your approval to use your bond. They could take it to the Tribunal to recover the cleaning/repair costs if you refuse and prove that you are liable.

    I moved out of a 2 bedroom apartment 2 months ago and we were only charged $250 in total. That was for the carpet steam clean(2 rooms and a lounge), cleaning for the window sills/oven/toilet and a coat of paint on a wall which the kids scribbled on.

    Get your landlord to provide you the list of cleaning/repair and only agree to pay the one that your contract states you are responsible to.

    • tradiesunited on 16/07/2015 - 09:50

      The landlord did not provide a list. He just stated that he wanted to use the bond to clean the whole apartment which has three rooms and I live in one room.

      • cim85 on 16/07/2015 - 09:54
        +4

        My bet: no cleaning will occur if you forfeit the bond…..he/she is trying it on!

      • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 09:57

        As other posters mentioned, did you get a receipt for the $500 bond from the landlord? If not this will not be in your favour.

        If you have a receipt just never agree to him to use your bond in any way and give him notice to have your bond returned. Email notice or written notice not verbal. If he is being fair to you he should give you a list of things and their cost. You can use that as evidence. Right now he is just bluffing you.

        • tradiesunited on 16/07/2015 - 10:56

          Yes, I have a receipt for the bond and a contract for sub-leasing a room in the apartment.

        • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 11:12

          @tradiesunited:

          This is how I look at it.

          You are responsible to half of the clean up of the room you shared with someone. That someone would pay the other half when they move out.

          If you are also responsible to the shared areas like the lounge/kitchen/toilet you should just divide the cost by the total number of tenants in the apartment.

          This landlord probably tries this on every tenant for some easy money. Just get him to give you the list and cost and you decide what's acceptable.

          Is the apartment overcrowded? That is 2 people in a room not counting babies/toddlers. If the apartment is 2 bedroom it can only occupy 4 people. 3 bedroom for 6 people. If the apartment is overcrowded you can simply tell the landlord to refund or else you are going to dob him in.

        • tradiesunited on 16/07/2015 - 11:54

          @DarkOz:

          Well I have the one room to myself. Another couple has the the other room and the landlord has one room. So there is no overcrowding.

          Yeah, that is a good idea. I will tell him to divide the cost for the shared areas and pay whole for the room I rented.

          Hopefully he agrees

        • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 13:55

          @tradiesunited:

          In your opening post you said you rented a share room at an apartment. It should have been you rented a room in a 3 room apartment. That's why some other posters thought that you are sub-leasing.

          Is the room carpeted? It depends on the contract you may or may not have to pay for the dry cleaning. One of my colleague refused to pay the agent for carpet dry cleaning and he got away with it. The agent backed off from taking him to the Tribunal. Other than that window sills and walls needs to be cleaned.

          Like I said earlier, if there are 4 people living in the apartment pay for 1/4 of what it costs to clean the toilet/kitchen and lounge. Dry cleaning carpets costs the most. If you read my first reply, it only cost me $250 for steam clean of 2 rooms and lounge and the cleaning of window sills, kitchen and toilet and a coat of paint on a wall. So if it costs the same for your apartment you only need to pay say $50-$100.

          If the landlord doesn't want to compromise just strongly remind him that you don't give him permission to deduct money from your bond or else see him at the Tribunal.

        • Love a bargain on 16/07/2015 - 14:00
          +1

          @DarkOz: It's illegal (at least in NSW) to demand for carpet to be steam/dry cleaned unless there is obvious damage (e.g. pets, visible stains).

        • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 14:19

          @Love a bargain:

          Yes, but what carpet has no visible stains after 9 to 12 months? I know my agent didn't rip me off because they even told the next tenant to wait a week so they could clean the property first. That included carpet dry cleaming.

        • Love a bargain on 16/07/2015 - 14:26
          +1

          @DarkOz:

          I was talking about visible stain (e.g. spilling a glass of red wine kinda stain) rather than the carpet getting dirty from normal use (i.e. where you find the carpet under a piece of furniture is cleaner than the part that's exposed). Not every one would necessarily have stained the carpet in their house. (OK, I don't have kids - which I know are prone to spilling things.)

          I wasn't suggesting that the RE took your money but didn't have the carpet dry cleaned. What I was getting at was the fact that you should not have had to pay for it to be done unless you've damaged it beyond the normal wear and tear.

        • DarkOz on 16/07/2015 - 14:41

          @Love a bargain:
          I understand what you are saying. To be honest I didn't want to pay for the carpet dry cleaning myself but I wanted to be honest and thought that using the carpet for 12 months it deserved to be dry cleaned. I have 2 kids and their shoes are definitely not free of dirts. Also the dropped food and sauce…my contract specified that the carpet must be in an acceptible clean state. Vacuuming it just won't do it.

        • birdmaster on 17/07/2015 - 05:20

          @tradiesunited: chances are pretty slim you get much back, even you go to tribunal you have to waste at least 1 full day or if matter doesn't get settled by you two might have to waste another day, first attempt tribunal's are just waste of time they push to settle the matter in the middle via conciliator no matter what either you are guilty or not. and conciliator try to settle it by pushing you and other party to meet in the middle. I have faced this my real estate agent tried to rip me off and we both went to tribunal and conciliator can clearly see they did not do any work they just had quotes but funny thing they already rented out the property to new tanant. So what they were claiming for was never going to happen it was a bogus claim, but conciliator wanted to save his time and he asked me do you work i said yes than he said just meet him middle as you wasted one day already and if you don't settle probably you have to come back again another day for the hearing so just give him $200 to settle for the cost of your next day and save the day spend it with your family bla bla.

          But you can play this card and apply online for tribunal hearing they will send they notice to landlord by mail or if you have his email, via email. Than put this scenario to the Landlord look if we both going to tribunal we both going to waste 1 day, look at your 1 day cost and my 1 day cost we going to waste, why don't you pay my bond back and settle most likely if land lord is smart he will understand and back down and give you money.

          Note to apply in tribunal online or via in person cost you around $50 something. So always calculate the cost before taking action.

  • toniyellow on 16/07/2015 - 07:39
    +6

    Sounds dodgy. Dig up as much paperwork as you have - anything you signed, any receipt you received when you gave him your bond, any emails between the two of you, any pictures you have of the room before you rented or after you cleaned.

    Read http://www.tenants.org.au/factsheet-03-bond

    Then try http://www.tenants.org.au/need-advice

    Write a killer email with as much evidence attached as you can that you behaved within the law and get him to back down.

    Don't do anything by phone if possible, if he still says no you want a paper trail you can use to take this further to get your money back.

    They probably try this with every tenant as most too busy with moving to follow up.

  • tomleonhart on 16/07/2015 - 08:12
    +1

    First question, do you have any paperwork to show that the landlord has received $500 as bond ?

    Your story sounds like you're sub leasing a room.

  • cim85 on 16/07/2015 - 08:43
    +4

    I think the greedy landlord is trying to scam an extra $500 from you - that is an over the top cleaning expense presuming your room was left clean and in good order. Further to what toniyellow and tomleonhart mentioned above, did you complete a 'Condition Report', lease agreement or similar? If you apply to the Tribunal seeking bond reimbursement, these are the documents they will want to see. Some landlords 'conveniently' skip this paperwork with tenants then try this bond scam at the end of the rental period.

    When renting, ALWAYS take a heap of before and after photos; ignore what your friends think about you being pedantic, lol …..this has saved me a couple of times when the bond return is mentioned and the landlord becomes suddenly fussy about the condition of a property. I personally would never rent/lease again unless a condition report and proper lease agreement are compiled and signed. Handshake deals progress well until you try to get the bond back :(

    • tradiesunited on 16/07/2015 - 11:09
      +1

      I'm new to the tribunal thing. How would I look into apply to tribunal? and does is the process cost?

      • cim85 on 16/07/2015 - 18:29
        +1

        @tradiesunited ….. Follow this link https://www.vcat.vic.gov.au/adv/disputes/civil-disputes/appl… re Victoria and it's all there for you, application fee for Residential Tenancies List (where this dispute would be heard) $59.80.

        EDIT…..just noticed you are in NSW; try these updated links for info to assist

        NCAT (Tribunal)
        http://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/Pages/cc/Divisions/Tenancy/tenanc…

        NSW Fair Trading (try them first as they may be able to assist)
        http://www.ncat.nsw.gov.au/Pages/cc/Divisions/Tenancy/tenanc…

        Don't think it's all too hard as this is what dodgy landlords rely upon to sting you re the bond!

      • the frost on 17/07/2015 - 08:21
        +2

        I went to a tribunal in Victoria last year. My landlord was trying to make extremely spurious claims (e.g. To him, it looked like we had been throwing coins at the fridge!). At the tribunal, common sense won out, generally. We were ordered to pay about 20% of what the landlord was demanding, and the rest was returned to us. It didn't cost us anything, as the landlord made the claim.

  • mr_alligator on 16/07/2015 - 10:19
    +3

    As long as you are leaving the place in a reasonable condition, you shouldn't even have to pay for your room unless you have caused some clear damage to the property. Normal wear and tear is OK.

    Tell him you would want to take this to the tribunal and don't get bullied in to paying. Just renting a room for 9 months, I would even protest if it was $50, let alone $500.

  • firedragon on 16/07/2015 - 12:01
    +1

    Landlords and RE agents are super dodgy. Just before I moved out of a place I rented for 5 years, I did a lot of research online. Ended up asking the agent who their recommended cleaner was. Used that cleaner (charged $450 for carpet clean, and clean whole unit…rip off price but they actually did a good job and I wanted to avoid hassle). Got whole bond back, no hassle. Bond was 4 weeks rent, so I did want that back…

    I was the only tenant though, wasn't sub-letting or anything.

    • Love a bargain on 16/07/2015 - 14:01
      +2

      Unless you're renting a mansion, $450 is truly excessive.

  • KaTst3R on 16/07/2015 - 14:05

    $500? Sounds like the cleaning fee also includes cleaning the swimming pool…

    Im being sarcastic… i.e. landlord is taking too much…

  • gimli on 16/07/2015 - 22:26

    Dodgy land lord don't pay a cent

  • iridiumstem on 16/07/2015 - 22:31
    -1

    I've been there with a dodgy landlord trying to scam… What you could do is, inform your landlord that you are seeking legal advises. Go see a free legal advisor. What he/she will tell you would be what your rights are and what you should do. You take that to the landlord and give him/her a timeframe to fix what he/she's doing. If he/she refuses to acknowlogy/amend what they are doing, you go onto the next step. I think for ACT, it was getting a legal settlement via ACT Civil and Administrative Tribunal. After that, if the landlord doesn't follow that, you can take him to the court.

    Mine backed down after I've told him that I am taking him to the court.

    • congo on 17/07/2015 - 21:57
      -1

      It's a lot of work and headache.
      If you are working full time, it isn't worth taking time off to go to court etc…

      From my experiences, agents in Canberra are the most dodgiest. They know that they will get away with it as we are too busy or live interstate etc.

      • iridiumstem on 17/07/2015 - 22:02

        My landlord said not having a properly working heating system in Canberran winter was fine and I was just wussing out.

        I had the rights, they were denying me of a service that I've paid for (heating) and no heating in Canberran winter is something that they have to fix (as it gets below 0 in Winter in Canberra). Those scumbags made the contract verbal (it wasn't on me, if you think I was the idiot, my hands were tied back then with me being in Korea, my brother signed the contract) to have it their way. That said, as the both parties acknowledged each other as a tenant and a landlord, my rights were protected by the law.

        • congo on 18/07/2015 - 07:50

          I agree with you.
          I think that if we all claimed our rights and takes these matters to courts, then these kinds of scams done by landlord and agents will occur less.

  • Randxyz123 on 17/07/2015 - 01:38
    +1

    Sounds like bull crap asking for the entire $500.

    Can you pay for a professional to clean the apartment as a compromise?

    Have a look at https://www.tuv.org.au/advice/getting-your-bond-back/

  • SnakeCasablanca on 17/07/2015 - 09:16

    Agree with everyone else. Sounds like he is just hoping that you just accept it and go away. Just let him know that you will take things further and let him know the tribunal you can go to in your state. Chances are that will at least get him to negotiate how much he wants to rort off you. If he doesnt respond I would begin proceedings. I know people above have said that it will take time out of your life but I would feel it is worth it to show this guy that he can't treat people this way.

    I used to sublet rooms in a tenancy and whenever people left I would get them to clean their room and I would take $50 out of their bond for the full house clean that would eventually be required.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2015 - 09:29

    scumbag landlord.
    Don't pay a cent.
    Get a quote for a full apartment clean from the cleaners and then split it between the 3 tenants. One third is your share.

    So if the bill is $300 then you pay $100.
    $500 for the whole apartment is illegal and he's basically ripping you off and hoping you'll cop it.
    Discuss it with him and then if he still won't budge, tell him you'll have to go to the tribunal because you have no other option. Tell him the Tribunal review is $60 so he knows you're serious because a lot of scammers like this will think you're bluffing (they think that a lawyer/courts would be a minimum of $500 so why would the poor tenant/uni student bother instead of just copping it).

  • Love a bargain on 17/07/2015 - 10:02

    I understand the logic behind the suggestions that the OP might offer to pay 1/3 of the cost to clean the full apartment. However, it's not like all three of them are moving out at the same time and sharing the end of lease cleaning costs (which I think is fair).

    There is nothing to suggest the person who occupy the other room is moving out and the landlord certainly isn't. So naturally, the landlord won't be having the whole apartment cleaned and he'd just rent the now vacant room out to someone else, which means he just pockets the 1/3. Since the landlord actually owns the apartment, he might never have to have the whole apartment cleaned.

    • DarkOz on 17/07/2015 - 10:46

      If the landlord never moves out, as he owns the property, he never have to pay his share for using the common areas just as much as a tenant. The landlord will simply pocket the money and not use it at all as the common areas are being maintained by existing tenants already.

      • Love a bargain on 17/07/2015 - 12:01
        +1

        Well, my point is that the landlord, under this logic, could get 1/3 of the cost of clearning the whole apartment everytime someone moves out but might never spend a cent on actually getting a cleaner in.

  • misterpotatomato on 17/07/2015 - 21:47
    +1

    Oh wow, keen to know the outcome of this.

    Popcorn! Get your popcorn! Low in salt and butter (Not because of health, but cost).

  • congo on 17/07/2015 - 21:52
    -2

    I rented a 1 bedroom apartment in Canberra some time ago, when I moved out, I spent weeks cleaning and even hired a cleaner to make sure.
    But the agent still took almost $500 out of my bond to pay for the 'cleaning'. He never provided a receipt too.

    I wasn't too impressed, but I don't think you can do much…I think it is better to just fall behind on your last payment, and let the agent use the bond to cover the overdue rent.

    • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2015 - 22:06

      You got owned. See below.

      • congo on 18/07/2015 - 07:52

        I know…I was young back then.

  • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2015 - 22:06
    +2

    A few things you need to understand:

    1 - If you paid a Bond of $500 the landlord should have given you a receipt. If the receipt says the word "Bond" on it - the "Bond" should have been sent in to the Rental Bond Board of your state. This means that any further correspondence should have been done through the Rental Bond Board of your state. Even if the landlord has put the words "Lodger" or "Boarder" in your agreement - the word "Bond" still means it should have gone through the RBB of your state.

    2 - If you shared the whole apartment with multiple people - you are responsible only for your share. 4 people will divide common areas into 4 and your room will be entirely your responsibility. If there are bathrooms or kitchens that are only being used by you - you will be responsible for the entire section. To give you an example: 5 people in a house with 2 bathrooms will mean that you are responsible for:

    Your room
    1/5 of common areas
    (If bathroom is an en suite in your room then you are also responsible for 1 bathroom otherwise if you share a bathroom with X number of people 1/x of that bathroom)

    This means that either you clean your sections accordingly OR negotiate to have the whole place cleaned with proportions for only your responsible sections and in doing so make sure you request the original receipt from the cleaning company. Be careful with this as there are landlords out there that know people who own cleaning companies and they can negotiate a whole bunch of sneaky receipts - ask for quotes and don't agree to anything until you have provided counter quotes yourself.

    The landlord cannot force you to pay for any cleaning that you are willing to yourself clean in proportion to your responsible sections of the house.

    3 - If number 1 above proves to be true and the word "Bond" was used and the landlord did NOT send details through to the Rental Bond Board the landlord is in breach of the Tenancy Act. You are supposed to receive a deposit receipt from the Dept of Fair Trading that details of payment have been lodged after the landlord sends the forms off. If you did not get this from the landlord they are subject to a $2200 fine.

    If something like this ever went to court - you wouldn't even have to argue your case because the landlord is in breach by default for not following the correct procedures.

    4 - IMPORTANT - IF THE WORD "BOND" WAS NOT USED - YOU ARE A LODGER OR BOARDER and the landlord does not have to go through the above process - however number 2 still applies in this case and the landlord cannot use your "security deposit" unless you have left the place in an unreasonably different state to when you first moved in.

    The best thing to do in this case is take pictures next time you move into a new place and document the original state not just as evidence but as an index for when you have to do your final cleaning.

  • cowiie on 18/07/2015 - 07:17

    I would call the tenancy authority in your state (i.e. RTA in qld) and explain them the situation. They will then give you advice on what you can do. Have all your paperwork ready in the case that you need to refer back to it.

  • meumax on 18/07/2015 - 07:59
    +1

    In NSW if tenant and land lord don't agree on how to release the bond, either party can lodge a unilateral claim to get the bond back from fair trading. The other party will be given notice that a claim had been made and given some time to either start the NCAT process or take no action and the bond is released to the applicant.

    Thing is it costs about $30 to lodge an appeal at NCAT but it costs nothing to make the application for release of bond. So the trick is to always claim first. Then the ball is in the other parties court. They either pay to appeal to NCAT or they do nothing and you get your money.

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