Accused of Illegal Dumping on Nature Strip

Lkamten on 10/07/2015 - 12:27

Hi All,

I recently moved out from a apartment, after moving all my stuff using a truck, some one has dumped on the nature strip on the same night.. Next day morning, when I returned for end of lease cleaning, I found the dumping (1 mattress, 1 couch and few other stuff) .

When I returned the keys to my realestate agent, he started accusing me about dumping on nature strip and he is not willing to accept to see any photos or any other proofs claiming that these stuffs are not mine. He want me to pay $250 off the bond to clear the nature strip. I refused to pay the money as dumped stuff is not mine nor dumped by me, so he said this has to be cleared in the Tribunal (VCAT).

Meanwhile, I reported to the Monash Council about the illegal dumping with all details provided and explained the situation. They said they will get back to me. I informed my agent on the complaint I made in the council, he mentioned that I am getting myself into more trouble. It is a coincidence or planned by neighbours to dump during the night of my move.

I have proofs like my couch during the move in the apartment and the same couch being used in the same house, and the receipts of mattress which was bought by me and still being in use. I am not sure if these will be considered.. I don't want to peanlised for something which I am not done.

This is happening for me for first time, any suggestion on how to move forward will be very helpful. Thanks for your time in advance.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • nocure on 10/07/2015 - 12:30
    +2

    Yep planned by neighbours,don't be surprised if you have plants missing too.(from experience)

    Solution: Grab a trailer from bunnings and remove it…it's not worth the hassle.

    • Davo1111 on 10/07/2015 - 15:19
      +15

      I agree about picking your battles, but sometimes you've gotta set a precedent that these tactics buy the REA are not acceptable.

      • gimli on 11/07/2015 - 22:44
        +3

        Hiring a trailer and moving a matress, couch etc is not necessarily easy.

        Just appeal and let it go to VCAT.

  • Davo1111 on 10/07/2015 - 12:31
    +13

    start the VCAT process.

  • spackbace on 10/07/2015 - 12:36
    +2

    Provided it hasn't been raining, take photos and put up on Gumtree/Facebook Buy & Sell and offer them free. Might not need to worry about them!

    • Ughhh on 10/07/2015 - 12:46
      +15

      They might disappear quicker if you put a sign saying $100 on each item instead of free.

    • c64 on 10/07/2015 - 14:36
      +10

      nah, advertising or putting 'free' signs on the dumped material could be construed as ownership. if it is not yours then just leave it alone.

      • gimli on 11/07/2015 - 22:44

        well said

  • rompastompa on 10/07/2015 - 12:38
    +1

    I don't get the dumping of waste. Don't you have a local tip/dump? If you're going to the effort of moving couches, why not chuck it on a trailer and dispose of it?

    In my area in WA, we have 4 tip vouchers and two green waste skips bins per year.

    The other option, is put an advert in gumtree for "free mattress/couch. Great for bonfires - 5th November is coming."

    Edit: Ha! Great minds hey, Spackbace?

    • Davo1111 on 10/07/2015 - 12:42
      +1

      I think it differs by council. For example my council does roadside pickup a few times a year for free. However they don't pickup certain items, mattresses, whitegoods and building materials are the main exclusions afaik. Going to the TIP costs minimum $60 entry fee

    • YTW on 12/07/2015 - 09:07

      Our local council give SFA for free. They charge $20 per mattress to dump it. You get no dump vouchers. They got rid of kerbside pick up. Now they are wondering why we have such a huge problem with illegal dumping locally.

  • Axelstrife on 10/07/2015 - 12:39
    +3

    whatever you do don't let them take 250 out of your bond. take care of it yourself if you cant get out of it.

    for me in Sydney (not the same circumstance) i payed $75 to the council for them to come pick up the same items when i moved out. idk if your council offers the same thing in Melbourne.

  • Scorpiogirl on 10/07/2015 - 12:48
    +21

    It is probably a tactic by a shonky real estate agent to get money out of you. If you say you did nothing wrong then do not pay anything. Let them go to Vcat etc. Doubt they would bother. You could also donate the stuff to a local charity store if it is half decent. Some will come pick it up. Just don't hand any money over or you admit guilt. When you move you don't want to look back, so do whatever helps you to get on with your life i guess.

  • p1 ama on 10/07/2015 - 13:13
    +2

    This is my two cents.

    I would not pay the $250. Whether I would go to VCAT or not, however, depends on how strongly I feel about the principle of the matter. I'm a pretty pragmatic person, I don't really care about the principle of the matter and usually, I prefer to get things sorted and done even if it means sometimes things are a bit unfair. That's just life and I accept that.

    Personally, I'd just get a trailer from Bunnings (they're free if you buy something large), just load it up and take it to the local tip. Seriously, it's free, it takes you less than an hour. You'll waste more time going to VCAT, filling out documentation and jacking around with them.

    • swiggity swag on 10/07/2015 - 14:47
      +18

      The trailer might be free, but dumping it isn't.

    • lolmao on 11/07/2015 - 23:02
      +9

      buying something large is not free

  • bonz on 10/07/2015 - 13:30
    +3

    I think Scorpiogirl is on the money there with regards to the real estate agent, please let us know their name, perhaps someone here may have had a similar run in with them, they may have pulled the same stunt to numerous other renters, i think they got scared when you informed them of the complaint to the council. Did you let the council know which agent made the threat/demand to you?

  • KaTst3R on 10/07/2015 - 14:00
    +9

    DNA test will clear your name…

  • DJR9000 on 10/07/2015 - 14:09
    +4

    Just ignore the agent's bluff and go to vcat, honestly some people are in the wrong job (sounds like petty tyrant syndrome).

    Could always go in the dead of night and move it across the road ;)

  • Randxyz123 on 10/07/2015 - 14:24

    Does the council offer a free hard waste collection service? Most do… You just need to ring up and book. They'll get rid of it.

    Otherwise as others have said chuck the stuff on gumtree…

  • godofpizza on 10/07/2015 - 14:39
    +1

    I had the same situation happen to me. Neighbours had cut tree branches left on our nature strip and some other assorted crap. There was no way I was going to use my free (biannual hard waste collection) to clear this junk. I called up the local council and explained the illegal dumping and it was cleared within a week.

    You should try and get back to the council and help if they haven't got back to you. if not the bunning option is a good idea. I would wear gloves and protective gear if you plan to move it yourself. who know what human/rat waste could be in the rubbish, you could get very sick from handling it.

  • Sterio on 10/07/2015 - 14:43
    +16

    What right has the agent to withhold your bond for items that are left on the nature strip whether they are yours or not. Tell him to sod off.

    • RandomNinja on 10/07/2015 - 18:13
      +3

      +1

      Would have thought illegal dumping issues should be between the council and the accused dumper

  • jason101 on 10/07/2015 - 16:05
    +6

    If you are not guilty of anything, you have nothing to worry about. In respect of the agent keeping the bond, as best I am aware bonds are held in trust (not by the agent), unless the owner of the unit can demonstrate they incurred a cost (or loss) they cannot keep the bond. Therefore if the council takes the junk at no cost to anyone (apart from rate payers - and not the agent on behalf of the owner) there is no claim to be made anyway.

    If I were you I would sign a stat dec and have it witnessed by a JP stating clearly that it is not your rubbish therefore you want your bond back.

    The agent would have to be a complete idiot to even get the case to a tribunal while in possession of a stat dec by you stating it isn't your rubbish. It possibly wouldn't hurt to take photos of your couch etc and annex them to your explanatory letter hence further demonstrating (at least to a reasonable person) your are still in possession of the same furniture.

    • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2015 - 11:35
      +1

      If you are not guilty of anything, you have nothing to worry about.

      Tell that to the people you see coming out of 25 years jail when they've just been cleared of the crime.

  • danb on 10/07/2015 - 17:46
    +7

    What does it have anything to do with the real estate? They wouldnt be moving anything that was dumped or doing anything about it

    Also i would be asking them for proof that it was you, without proof then they have no reason to keep your bond.

  • DarkOz on 10/07/2015 - 20:14
    +2

    I don't quite get it. The dumping on the nature strip has got nothing to do with any individual real estate agent anyway. It's the building management/BCS that clears it privately or through the council(in NSW anyway). The real estate agent can only bill you for the repair work to the apartment that you have leased.

    You could take this matter to the real estate agent's manager or even the branch manager. He is just being a silly stubborn pig. That's all.

    If they still want to take you to the tribunal you have nothing to worry about. They need to prove that you dumped the stuff. You don't have to prove that you didn't dump them.

  • dasher86 on 10/07/2015 - 23:57
    +4

    I read this as taking s dump on the nature strip…

    • nocure on 11/07/2015 - 00:00
      +3

      That would be easier to clean up.

      • allegiance86 on 12/07/2015 - 15:29

        I guess that's what the DNA comment was about further up haha

  • Brendoo on 11/07/2015 - 11:29
    +1

    Sounds to me like the guy is trying to scam you and the $250 would go into his pocket. Dont pay it. You did nothing wrong. He is most likely calling your bluff. You cannot be penalised for something you didn't do and no one has proof of.

    I wouldnt be surprised if this shonky person does this regularly to supplement his income illegally. No offence, but I see that English isnt your first language and you have an Indian name. Sometimes some dodgy characters try to prey on people who weren't born here and scare them out of money. Stand up to this person. This is Australia and if you did nothing wrong then a tribunal will not penalise you. Odds on this guy is bluffing and would not take it further.

  • meumax on 11/07/2015 - 15:46
    +4

    I would take it to VCAT.

    My reasoning is that the agent will have to charge the owner for appearing at VCAT and preparing the case against you. My property manager charges $55 for appearances at NCAT (The NSW equivalent) plus their time to prepare paperwork for the case against the tenant. As a land lord, because of the costs I wouldn't be going to NCAT unless the amount I was owed by the tenant was a lot and I had rock solid evidence against them to guarantee winning the case.

    In this instance, they have no evidence so the owner would not spend the money for such a potentially small gain ($250 minus agent charges) and risk losing the case.

  • Rocket on 11/07/2015 - 18:12
    +10

    Sitting here with a couple of agents who said your agent has no right and no proof it is yours. Go to VCAT and tell them it's not yours and you will be fine. Good luck.

  • dtbnguyen on 11/07/2015 - 19:54
    +3
    • call someone or put a sign on it (charity, Gumtree, pawn brokers, metal scrappers, etc…). Say it's for free and that they should just come and pick it up and someone will eventually take it. Timeline is the only issue with this
    • deal with it yourself (take to tip or else if you know someone who has access to industrial waste facilities dump it there. If you can't do that chop it up and then mix it in with standard waste, burn it, use chemicals on it, etc… Note that there may be reppurcussions (warning, fine, etc… Some of these almost certainly are in contravention of local council bylaws) if you are caught doing this though as it's hard waste and treatment of it is different from standard waste)
    • ignore them in the hope that they will ignore the issue. Be aware that there may be other problems down the line (debt collector, interest, etc…) if you take this and aren't reading the situation correctly
    • tell them/force them to take it to VCAT. Be prepared though if you want to take this option with receipts and written proof, etc…
      Stat dec of removalists/yourself/others stating that it is not your property, receipt of your actual goods, pictures of your actual goods (lots of people take pictures of their goods for insurance purposes now) would be useful. DNA tests have been mentioned but possibly tongue in cheek, etc… Cost of tests actually make this option unrealistic. Plus, there are a whole bunch of other problems associated with contamination of evidence, etc…

    • defend, counter, and force them back. Lay out all the evidence against them and make it near impossible for a third party to believe that you are in the wrong. Say that they should they continue along these lines that they are committing certain wrongful acts and you will act based on them and use it this as evidence at VCAT
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackmail
      https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Extortion

    • free first 30 minutes if you want legal advice
      http://www.liv.asn.au/referral

    • don't think this is within their remit but legal aide if you are a low income earner
      https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/get-legal-services-and-advic…
      https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/get-legal-services-and-advic…
      https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/find-legal-answers/building-…

    Your choice what you want to do… If it looks like a shakedown though, it probably is…

  • [Deactivated] on 11/07/2015 - 22:48
    +5

    keep us updated please

  • Cave Fire on 11/07/2015 - 23:51
    +8

    I wouldn't touch the stuff personally. Someone could see it and report you. Even if you did remove the items, you are still going to need the agent's signature to get your bond back. I think you need to get written evidence of your situation. Email the agent or better his supervisor, if he's from a property management company. Say that:

    1. You are writing to request the full return of your bond.
    2. You are not responsible for the illegal dumping and have reported it. Do a stat dec if possible.
    3. The agent has no legal standing to deduct $250 (If the dumped items are on council land and this is not covered in your agreement).
    4. That you are going to lodge a VCAT dispute, if the bond form is not signed by a certain deadline.

    You may want to double check if the nature strip is definitely not a part of the apartment complex. If he doesn't budge after this, lodge the VCAT yourself. It will take some time but it's the right thing to do.

    • andyken on 12/07/2015 - 12:20
      +2

      +1 above

  • QuickToThePointless on 12/07/2015 - 14:50
    +1

    Hire a ute. Pick up the stuff. Get the money. Dump it at real estate agents office. You win!

  • immortalbjr on 12/07/2015 - 15:04
    +1

    Its not to to you to prove your innocent, its up to them to prove your guilty.

    Dont waste your time or energy on it if it wasn't you, unless they have actual proof you did it no "court"/ruling system can rule in their favor. The agent or whoever will tell you any shit they like however as before, if they dont have proof, then tell them you need your bond back.

  • kamten on 12/07/2015 - 17:25
    +1

    Thanks for such a detailed reply.. guys.. Sure will keep you posted.

    As per the last reply from the Agent, he has lodged the tribunal application and should reach me by Monday by post. He has also given option to settle by accepting to deduct $250 from bond.

    So counting on the tribunal paperwork to reach by post.. Meanwhile I am planning to get a Stat Dec. ready.

  • kamten on 12/07/2015 - 17:44
    +2

    I did bit of research in Consumer.vic.gov.au,
    as per this website : http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing-and-accommodation/ren…

    "As a landlord/agent or owner, you can try to recover the bond at the end of a tenancy if:

    -the tenant has left and owes rent (rent in arrears)
    -the tenant or resident or their visitors have damaged the property
    -there are cleaning or repair expenses that exceed normal ‘wear and tear’
    -the tenant or resident has abandoned the premises
    -the tenant or resident has left you to pay bills they should have paid
    -items that were part of the tenancy agreement are missing. "

    In my case,
    - I didnt dump anything within the apartment, as well as around apartment and the nature strip
    - Nature strip belong to council, for which I have made a complaint with council who inturn council is investigating the dumped nature strip and pasted "Illegal dumping investigation" stickers over them.
    - Agent accuses me on dumping it as it was done on they day of my move, apart from which he does not have any proof that these furniture are anyway related to me (as they are not mine at all).
    - As per the consumer.vic.gov.au, Agent is not suppose to withhold for this reason.
    - Now that I have lodged a complaint with council with my details recorded, they can penalise me if they find anything against me.

    I feel the Agent cannot withhold $250 from Bond and move this as case to Tribunal.

    On the otherhand, am wondering how can he make a case at Tribunal.

    • Cave Fire on 12/07/2015 - 18:50
      +1

      If the lessor and tenant disagree on the bond, either party can apply for VCAT to sort out the bond. I've read something on the Tenancy Union Victoria website that says the notice may actually be sent to your old rental address if there is no forwarding address. If the agent is being dodgy, he might have the notice sent to your old address. Rather than waiting for a notice, apply for your own VCAT hearing, just so you know that it's done. There is no cost to you and I think it's just a form that you fill out. If a hearing is already created, they now have your details to inform you when your hearing is. Or you can even ring them to find out if you have a hearing already.

      There's also an estate agent's resolution service: 1300 737 030 or you can complain to the agent's parent company if he has one. I think he has broken the law, so it depends how far you want to take this.

    • dtbnguyen on 13/07/2015 - 00:32
      +1

      I think the following is the relevant piece of law in question here.

      http://www.consumer.vic.gov.au/housing-and-accommodation/ren…

      The thing is, is they seem to be intermingling/interpreting separate pieces of law for their own ends… Like I said up to you how you want to approach this. You should have a solid case if this ever requires a third party to intervene.

      Would be curious whether this is mostly to do with an individual at the company or else the company itself? Do a quick online search (a private eye will cost several hundred to several thousand dollars if you want a background check. Not worth it in this case probably unless you have a prior relationship and can get it done free/cheap)? Nudge, nudge, wink, wink (helpful if there is a history of unlawful/unethical similar behaviour if it ever heads to VCAT).

  • gekiyasu on 12/07/2015 - 18:17
    +1

    Dont do anything regarding the dumped stuff. Its not yours and not your problem.
    Start the VCAT process to get your money back.

  • [Deactivated] on 12/07/2015 - 21:01
    +2

    This isn't your problem to address as it isn't your junk, so if I was in your shoes I wouldn't be removing the garbage nor accepting any part of the bond being taken. The exact situation happened when my wife moved out of her flat (back a long time ago when we were just dating). When she went to have her bond returned, the agent starting complaining about furniture we had 'dumped' but we stood our ground and told the agent that it wasn't our property. Nothing became of it, and all bond was returned.

    If this agent has been in the business for any reasonable length of time, there's no way this is the first time they've encountered this situation. Sadly, Aus is full of a-holes who play this trick. Just remember that real estate agents often only differ to burger flippers by qualification of a 5-day REIV course they attended to become a qualified agent - They're probably one of the least threatening characters you could be fighting with. They sure as hell aren't lawyers, or any type of person who has any form of recognised experience in matters of common law. In fact, the bond money isn't even held or accessible by then for reasons such as this!

  • [Deactivated] on 17/07/2015 - 02:29

    Let us know what happened in the tribunal

  • kamten on 31/07/2015 - 13:37
    +6

    I have lodged the tribunal with all the paperwork done and Mail sent to the Estate Agent. As this is Bond only claim, there is no fees involved in VCAT lodgement.
    thats it for now.. Will update you guys later.

  • kamten on 20/08/2015 - 14:18
    +12

    Hello All,

    The hearing happened today and the agent didn't turn up. Tribunal member assessed all my proofs and issued order to get full refund of bond from RTBA.

    Thank you all for the support..

    • rompastompa on 20/08/2015 - 14:41
      +1

      Congrats! Glad you didn't give in to their bullying/money making schemes!

    • [Deactivated] on 20/08/2015 - 23:10
      +1

      Thanks a lot for the update and congrats

  • DarkOz on 21/08/2015 - 07:10
    +2

    Great result but it's a pity you had to go through this.

    You should should consider lodging a complaint against that agent. It was most unprofessional and unethical.

    • kamten on 24/08/2015 - 11:51
      +2

      @DarkOz I am planning to on that.. If he is not planning to turn up at hearing why not ask me to withdraw the VCAT application. Saves time and Saves my Annual leave. Just pushing people to take extra step to get full money back.

      • DarkOz on 25/08/2015 - 06:51

        Great mate. Just get back to update us on it if you have the time. I rarely make a complaint in real life but this so called agent is a piece of garbage and he should be treated accordingly!

  • [Deactivated] on 03/09/2015 - 18:40

    If it's worth anything, I BELIEVE IN YOU OP, good luck!

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