Prices for Brand New Midsize SUVs

Bmann999 on 03/06/2015 - 15:43

I am helping a family member shop for a new midsize SUV and we have been looking at different brands. Automatic is a must, but no other features are essential. They are after a midsize SUV for the size/height, and don't need any real sporty features such as 4x4 because they only drive on city streets. They are not interested at all in smaller cars such as Subaru XV or Honda HRV.

We currently are considering 7 brands and I have created a rough price guide for what each SUV starts for base model automatic.

Korean:
Hyundai ix35 $28K
Kia Sportage $29K

Japanese
Toyota Rav4 $33K
Honda CRV $33K
Nissan X-trail/Qashqai $33K
Mazda CX-5 $33K (6.4L/100km is great!)
Subaru Forester $37K

We are not considering American or European cars do to quality concerns and maintenance costs respectively.

My questions for Ozbargain:
1) Are Hyundai/Kia's so much cheaper because they are lower quality, or is it just that they don't have the same brand prestige as Japanese cars.

2) Are any of these companies going to discount more heavily than others? I would love if anyone could post a recent price they actually paid for one of these. I am hoping there will be extra promotions for EOFY and we are prepared to go last weekend of the month.

3) Would you recommend a car broker service or is it better to negotiate straight with a dealership?

Automotive

Comments

  • p1 ama on 03/06/2015 - 15:55
    -4

    We are not considering American or European cars do to quality concerns and maintenance costs respectively.

    And considers Hyundai and Kia…?

    1) Are Hyundai/Kia's so much cheaper because they are lower quality, or is it just that they don't have the same brand prestige as Japanese cars.

    No, they're actually worse cars with worse after-sales support, less reliability records, usually cheaper made…etc. You might not realise this now, but when your Toyota or Mazda breaks down in 10 years time, basically any mechanic will be able to fix it or you'd be able to do it yourself with parts readily available. Good luck doing that with some obscure car like a Kia.

    2) Are any of these companies going to discount more heavily than others? I would love if anyone could post a recent price they actually paid for one of these. I am hoping there will be extra promotions for EOFY and we are prepared to go last weekend of the month.

    If you intend to keep the car for a long time, wait till the plate clearance and grab a 2015 model for cheap when they're transitioning over to a 2016 model. Other good offers can be found on demonstrators, display models…etc.

    3) Would you recommend a car broker service or is it better to negotiate straight with a dealership?

    Negotiate straight with a dealership, know how much you're willing to pay, how much they're willing to sell for and go in with that mindset, why would you want to pay a middleman?

    • xyron on 03/06/2015 - 18:37
      +5

      Geez paulsterio, you are usually the bastion of good quality, sound purchasing advice on OzBargain but I think you've flown off the handle a bit prematurely there with your vitriolic hate for Korean cars.

      I think the OP would be just as well-off with a Korean option as they would with a Japanese option - Korean cars have improved in leaps and bounds over the years, and on the whole, the financial position of Hyundai is much better than many Japanese manufacturers. I would not be concerned about after-sales support and long-term parts availability. Who knows whether the OP's family member will still own the car in 10 years anyway? (keeping in mind for the Korean cars, it will only be 3 years out of warranty by that point!)

      • raymond y on 03/06/2015 - 20:20

        Korean cars have improved in leaps and bounds over the years, and on the whole

        Remember just because something has improved leaps and bounds over the last number of years doesn't make it ahead of it's competition. There will always be a distinction in reliability and quality workmanship. There can be things that are difficult to put a dollar value on such as safety. Just do your research and find something that you're happy with.

        Most car purchases are not entirely rational. Many medium SUVs have very similar internal space to their equivalent small car counterparts eg Honda CRV and Honda Civiv or Mazda CX5 and Mazda 3.

      • p1 ama on 04/06/2015 - 23:48

        I think perhaps my comments were a little misinterpreted, so I'm sorry, but let me rephrase things in (hopefully) a more diplomatic way.

        I found it surprising that OP said he's not considering American or European cars due to quality concerns and maintenance costs. Well, two things struck me about this.

        Firstly, I'm assuming that by American, OP means Ford and Holden. From what I know, Ford and Holden both have excellent reliability, great availability of parts and any mechanic or service centre will be happy working on a Ford or Holden. So it seems strange that OP would say that about American/Australian cars and in the same breath consider Hyundai and Kia. I'm not sure what information would show that Hyundai and Kia would be more reliable than an average Ford or Holden. Now I wish I had data on this (I have an Econometrics/Statistics degree, so it hurts me to not have data), but just general consensus seems to think that Ford and Holden are much more reputable and reliable than Hyundai and Kia, especially Kia, a pretty untested brand.

        Secondly, what's wrong with the quality of European cars? It just seems odd to criticise European cars for quality when many European manufacturers are the flag-bearers of quality. I don't particularly like any of the German manufacturers, I believe they're overpriced and that luxury cars are silly (personal view), but I don't question their reliability and quality. So it just seems a little strange to me.

        I think you've flown off the handle a bit prematurely there with your vitriolic hate for Korean cars.

        Not really vitriolic hate, more genuine concerns about the future.

        • Euphemistic on 06/06/2015 - 11:11

          I don't him anyone thinks of ford and Holden as American. American brands would be those like Chrysler, dodge, Jeep that are coming toAus. Ford and Holden are well known as having a good dealer network and backup and are probably considered Aussie, despite having their roots in the US. The other three don't have the same level of backup.

          For my mind, Hyundai are on equal pegging with ford and Holden locally, Toyota and Mazda have a reputation as being a cut above for reliability while the euros referred to as being less worthy of throwing dollars at are fiat, skoda and vw. Merc and BMW are in the premium bracket and you pay extra just for having a flash badge.

        • p1 ama on 07/06/2015 - 10:41

          @Euphemistic: Something I really don't get is why we continue to view Holden and Ford as Australian brands whilst Toyota as a Japanese brand. If we ignore the fact that no cars are going to be manufactured in Australia anymore and go back a few years, the only main Holden car manufactured in Australia is the Commodore (and related cars) and the only Fords are the Falcon and Territory, Toyota manufactures their Camry and Aurion in Australia.

          So technically Holden and Ford are just as American as Toyota is Japanese.

          Or, Toyota is just as Australian as Holden and Ford.

          I know what you mean, that's not the way most people view it, but it's a very strange truth.

  • spackbace on 03/06/2015 - 16:12

    2) Are any of these companies going to discount more heavily than others? I would love if anyone could post a recent price they actually paid for one of these. I am hoping there will be extra promotions for EOFY and we are prepared to go last weekend of the month.

    Not as good as you might think. In order to get the best deal, you need to pick up the new car by the end of the month for it to count. If you cant pick it up till July, your bargaining power has gone out the door.

    3) Would you recommend a car broker service or is it better to negotiate straight with a dealership?

    Many brokers have a $500-$900 'finders fee' put to the dealership, so it wont be the best possible deal that you could get if you walked in the door. They also wont inform you of different models, or demo models etc.

    Now go look at the 7 but don't test drive yet… narrow it down to 3… then test drive those 3… all in 1 day preferably

  • shadowarrior on 03/06/2015 - 17:08

    Looked at Mitsubishi Challenger?

  • Lichen6420 on 03/06/2015 - 18:00
    +1

    Challenger is too big to be a mid size IMO…

    Mitsubishi Outlander yes… fits in the price bracket too.

    • Noblejoker on 04/06/2015 - 11:54

      Outlander definitely should be on the list IMO

  • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 18:18

    I think you are making a big mistake by ruling out American and European cars, on reliability and cost grounds, when you are considering other cars with inherently unreliable CVT gearboxes.

    The technology on most of the cars you are considering is outdated and generally the cars you have selected are a generation behind the market leaders. I wouldn't consider an SUV with anything other than a standard torque converter auto with at least 7 or 8 speeds.

    • Bmann999 on 03/06/2015 - 19:07

      What would you recommend? I like European cars, but I have heard so many horror stories about maintenance costs for VW's that I am very hesitant about them.

      • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 19:39
        -1

        If you are worried about service costs, I would suggest you get a capped price service plan, which VW offer. You are going to get a much more technologically up to date car in your price bracket, if you choose a European or American car. At least a generation ahead. Basically, the way car design cycles work, is that engines aside, major components like gearboxes, safety systems, variants of traction control, come out in the European cars first, then filter to the Americans, then Japanese and finally Koreans. So while the latest Korean cars are using 6 speed gearboxes based off 15 year old philosophies and designs, the Europeans have already had a generation of 7, then 8 (the magical ZF), and now 9 speed gearboxes. (Just as an example).

        Having owned multiple VWs and never having had any reliability issues, I would recommend them, but that said, a decent SUV is out of your price range from VW. I would maybe suggest slipping into a demo BMW X1, which feature the 8speed ZF, latest traction and safety programs (again, despite branding, these are usually off the shelf ECU components from companies like Bosch), 5 star crash ratings, and usually (as is the case with most Europeans) vastly better real world fuel efficiency.

        If It was my personal preference, I would increase your budget a little and push hard to bargain for a Jeep Grand Cherokee Laredo, which in petrol 4*4 can be had for the low $40k's with bargaining. Despite the extremely vocal 'I hate Jeep' brigade, if you talk to most owners, they love their Jeeps, which prove to be great cars (In response to this, the anti Jeep brigade will now neg the hell out of me, then a really smart guy will post the infamous Moose test video, where the previous generation Grand Cherokee flipped over). What you will get is a practical, capable, comfortable, well appointed, powerful, fun, and technologically up to date 4wd, which given its size has good fuel economy to boot. You will get a ZF 8 speed, a 210kw engine, 8 inch touch screen, full electrics, LCD dashboard, actual off road capability, a RWD bias for predictable handling (it is a boat, it is no X5 around the corners), auto everything, and a smile on your face. Don't listen to the neigh sayers, just go and test drive one, and you will see the massive difference between it and the cars you have suggested. In other markets, it costs over double the cars you have suggested, which is telling.

        • spackbace on 03/06/2015 - 19:52

          And no room for the driver's left foot…

        • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 19:56

          @Spackbace: True that, a bloody stupid fault, not putting a foot rest in. I must say Im not a fan of foot brakes, but it doesn't detract from the car.

        • spackbace on 03/06/2015 - 19:58

          @thorton82:

          To me it does tbh. I'm 6'3, lanky legs. If a car (lets say every Jeep I've sat in the driver's seat) doesn't have room for my left foot, I cant drive comfortably. I'm not just talking no foot rest, I mean absolutely no space at all, because the wall actually comes right over, so your foot ends up awkwardly under the brake pedal.

        • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 20:02

          @Spackbace: Yeah, its a fault, they should just use an electric brake or conventional hand brake. That being said, its not like your foot is under the actual brake, just under the park brake pedal. But I agree, if the car has one downfall, it is that.

        • spackbace on 03/06/2015 - 20:03

          @thorton82:

          I appreciate the honesty :)

        • Euphemistic on 06/06/2015 - 11:18

          Why on earth would anyone looking at a mid sized city SUV look at a huge, thirsty off road 4x4 like a grand Cherokee?

        • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2015 - 17:46

          @Euphemistic: Because it is a much better car for the money than the other ones? Also, Im averaging 10.3L/100km in mixed driving in the 2000km In the one I've been lent for the last few weeks.

        • Euphemistic on 08/06/2015 - 07:27

          @thorton82:

          It might be a good car, but it's not a city car, nor a mid size like the OP wants.

        • [Deactivated] on 08/06/2015 - 12:07

          @Euphemistic: I think it would be considered a mid sized SUV, its certainly not a large SUV, it only has 5 seats for a start. It may be at the larger end of midsize, but its there.

  • chumlee on 03/06/2015 - 18:28

    Kia give a 7 year warranty. BMW gives 3 year warranty. Which manufacturer has more faith in the quality of their vehicles?

    • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 18:59
      +1

      If you think a Kia is a better built car than a BMW, I suggest you go to a wrecking yard and have a look at accident damaged models.

      End of the day, A BMW will last for a lot longer than 7 years, as will a KIA. The difference is that BMW doesn't need to extend ridiculously long warranties to sell their products, but Kia does.

  • Pumpkin_rrr on 03/06/2015 - 19:16

    How about Mitsubitshi ASX?

  • PVA on 03/06/2015 - 19:26

    X-trail/Qashqai are two different sized vehicles.
    Qashqai (used to be the old Dualis, based on Tiida/Pulsar size) and starts at $28.5k, and meant to have something like 2wd suv of the year award, according to billboards around town.
    xtrail is bigger and little more 4wdrivy style (even though the base models are 2wd).

    American, like the new Jeep Cherokee, read up on lots of problems with the 9 speed gearbox. and service parts not cheap going by my sister and her Jeep.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/06/2015 - 21:35

    Ok released today, should be here inside 6 months:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9OqB65LEOwc

    /close thread

  • tomleonhart on 03/06/2015 - 22:00

    Answer to your question 1:

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZDBjoKvzG_o

  • affable on 04/06/2015 - 08:04

    Depending on your usage, consider an Outlander PHEV Aspire which I bet is not on your radar as they RRP at $58k. Currently you can get about $15k+ off RRP due to lower fuel prices and a new model coming out next year.
    In our situation we were replacing a Honda CRV @ 10L/100km. We are achiving 75%+ EV only driving so it will save us about $11k every 100,000km in reduced fuel costs (we charge the car @9c/kWh off peak rates and get about 47km EV range, ie about $1.80/100km EV driving). The fuel savings brings the $43k purchase price down to about $33k, which is very good for a top of the range car. Leather, Adaptive cruise control, collision avoidance, cabin pre-heat/cool etc. Unless you've driven one, seriously you don't know what you're missing. The combination of ACC and electric drive/regen braking makes for unbelievable long-trip driving, especially through the single lane roadworks.

    • Bmann999 on 04/06/2015 - 08:58

      Damn… $15K discount is more than I ever would have expected. I initially dismissed the PHEV because around $58K the economics don't make sense.

      Did you have to haggle much?
      Do you need to do anything fancy at home to set up the charging, or can you just plug it into the wall?

      • affable on 04/06/2015 - 10:50
        +2

        If you look on Carsales there is one listed brand new for $44680 before haggle. Yes, I had to haggle quite a bit for the last few $k (I am an Ozbargainer after all) and talked to 4 dealerships over about 6 weeks to squeeze the best deal. I ended up with a brand new PHEV Aspire including $1500 in accessories (Towbar and roofbars) for $43k drive away. You can pay <$40k for one that has done <15K km if you don't mind the colour.

        I charge in the garage from an existing powerpoint (ie NO electrician needed to install anything). The charge lead supplied with the vehicle comes with a 15A plug however it draws <10A (they just don't want you plugging it into a powerboard etc). There is a Jaycar 15A-10A RCD breaker you can buy, however for the PHEV I just use my own pin converter. The car has its own Wifi network so from a smartphone app it allows you to check on the charge, schedule it for off peak times only etc (This setting can be location specific so it will still charge when out & about). Very smart car. Mitsubishi offer an free overnight test drive from a few dealerships (eg Ryde NSW) which is well worth it if you want to experience the future. They don't even pressure you afterwards, however beware the car sells itself if it fits your usage. I didn't end up buying from the dealership I used for the test drive, however I gave them first right of offer, it was just that another dealership beat them.

  • Euphemistic on 04/06/2015 - 10:28

    You've ruled out the Subaru XV and included the Mazda CX-5. As far as I'm aware these two vehicle are pretty much in the same category. The XV is an Impreza on roids and the CX5 is a Mazda 3 on roids. So either the CX5 is too small for you or the XV is big enough. The Honda HRV is a smaller car though.

    • Bmann999 on 04/06/2015 - 11:58

      The car is for someone in his 60's and has trouble getting down into most cars. The XV is pretty big, but the seats are low like a sedan. He sat in it and said no straight away. From seeing CX-5's driving around, the appear to be pretty tall even if they are not super big.

      • spackbace on 04/06/2015 - 12:04

        Does he need the size of some of the cars on the shortlist?

        If that smaller SUV size suits, have a look at the Holden Trax as well

      • Euphemistic on 04/06/2015 - 12:48

        That wasn't mentioned in your first post, but point taken. Why do they want the size? Carting people or stuff? Or just for the height?

        Looks like time to go for a test drive or three.

        • Bmann999 on 04/06/2015 - 14:23

          He's mainly after the height but he does often drive with 4 or 5 adults in the car. He's also pretty handy and likes the space for Bunnings runs.

          I know that in terms of size we just need to go and test drive. Was more interested in doing some homework in terms of price on OzBargain.

  • mookieconster on 04/06/2015 - 21:30

    I have a CX-5 Maxx Sport 2012, brought brand new.

    While I don't have any major complains and I do like the car, I don't get anywhere near the touted 6.4L/100km mileage. It's ~9.5L/100km for me, but then again I drive to work after dropping my kids in two different schools and along 60km/h roads. I'm not the most light-footed driver around as well.

    About negotiating, recently bumped into this thread on Reddit which offers a few pieces of good advice IMO: http://www.reddit.com/r/Frugal/comments/2l63gy/how_to_negoti…

    Good luck!

    • tonyjzx on 05/06/2015 - 01:13

      derp

      you do know 6.4 litres is the hwy miles

      9.5 is absolutely fine for urban stop start us

      i mean its sheer common sense… a 1.5 ton SUV with a conventional enigne will not get 6.4 in city esp. dropping kids off in traffic

      for my liking, the two koreans are too old for the money and small

      pass on that, i do think their next gen will be good, i'm not a brand biggot against koreans

      toyota is behind the times in tech and design and embarrassing on a new model

      dualis is too small and whats the point with the xtrail a little bit more

      subaru i'm not certain off but i dont like that brand

      so its a shootout btw. the Xtrail CRV and CX5

      I personally like the CX5 but only the 2.5 petrol and it seemed too small inside for what you get. Also Mazda are overpriced.

      Honda CRV I dont mind, a tad boring and we've had two already. I also hate its looks.

      The Xtrail is what we chose, I think $33k for the 7 seat. Nice enough. There are some design faults being a cheap SUV but nothing I can hold against it. I find the ride kind of not so great but typical of 1.5 ton jacked up trucks.

      Put it like this, out of 2 x CRVs and 2 x Xtrails we have experienced no warranty faults in a combined 12 yrs ownership. That is amazing IMO but anecdotal.

      the 2.5 is pretty decent in the Xtrail but not that economical, I beleive it is NOT DI, the CX5 is. But Mazda want something like $5k more for a CX5 2.5 model… I also think the Xtrail looks pretty high end for the price, it is Lexus like.

      • affable on 07/06/2015 - 08:02

        I'm not sure I'd consider 4 vehicles in 12yrs would show up many faults unless you had 2 SUV at a time? We had a 2006 CRV and had quite a few issues over 8 years of ownership. Fortunately we had bought the car when it was 1 yr old and the initial purchaser had paid for a Honda extended warranty which ended up saving us about $3-4k in warranty repairs (maybe the statutory warranty would have sufficed?). The main issues were passenger side rear brake locking, engine sensors malfunctioning and diff fluid which must be replaced much more frequently than service book advises, otherwise "windup" occurs. On the plus side, the CRV was great on tyres, and coming from a Forester which eats front tyres we really appreciated the difference.

        • tonyjzx on 08/06/2015 - 16:33

          i did say it was anecdotal evidence so take it at that

          be that as it may, we have 2 x CRVs back to back, meaning 6 yrs of ownership without a single fault

          granted they werent taken on anything rougher than loose gravel but has nothing mechanical or electrical or any weird service costs

          same as the xtrails which were owned in overlapping periods

  • smoothymcmellow on 10/06/2015 - 10:36

    I know you ruled out European cars but this has just been released and kinda suprised at price/features/review

    http://www.caradvice.com.au/344511/2015-skoda-octavia-scout-…

    Worth a look with ~1% finance offered too

  • Brucet on 10/06/2015 - 17:43

    I recommend you buy RAV4 because its more reliable and good quality
    also they made in Japan.I drive 3rd RAV4 now.2013 model

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