I think I got Scammed! :(

Lmeezyy on 03/06/2015 - 11:57
Last edited 04/06/2015 - 16:35

Hey guys, need some advice/help.

I sold my extra 6x Chelsea FC tickets on Gumtree.

The buyer made payment to me via bank deposit.

Now apparently it seems that it was a cheque deposit which has bounced according to the bank.

All I have is a phone number, name, PO Box and email.

The buyer's phone seems switched off.

Is there any action that I can take?

Thanks for your help!

EDIT: Guys I really appreciate all your support and advise. Thank you. Bank was a dead end and not sure if I have enough to give the police any leads. I have learnt my lesson about gumtree and selling online in general. I am about to get bombard with uni exams from next week and this is just escalating my stress levels. It will also take a massive amount of time travelling to the bank the cheque was deposited to obtain a copy. Considering all I have is an email, phone number, name & Po Box and possibly the bank cheque (which will take at least 90 mins travel to obtain) do you guys reckon it is worth all the trouble and disrupting my exam studies to get my money back (a few hundred bucks)? Just after everyone's opinion. Thanks

Poll Options

  • 44
    Won't lead to anything, learn your lesson and just focus on exam prep. That money is gone for good.
  • 111
    Pursue the matter with the bank and police, it is likely something may come up.
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Comments

        • endotherm on 04/06/2015 - 14:43
          +1

          The important conditional wording here is resale at a premium, meaning selling it at an inflated price. It would seem it is permissible to sell it for face or cost value.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 10:57

        Just looked at an event:

        Original Ticket Price: $450.00
        Resale prices often exceed face value.
        Price per ticket: $702.78

        I bet Ticketmaster get a nice cut of the resale.

  • wkd on 04/06/2015 - 10:13
    +5

    sending to po box should have rang alarm bells

    • mmd on 05/06/2015 - 02:36
      +2

      Why?
      I get all my things sent to my PO box… (i have lost mail before when it was addressed to my house)

  • AlanHB on 04/06/2015 - 10:13
    +4

    It's a cheque…you should wait until it clears before approving the transaction.

  • Green Oz Led on 04/06/2015 - 10:16
    +2

    A lot of people using PO Box so its normal.
    Can bank compensate this? Did you lodge it with police?
    Thanks for sharing will be aware of this scam as well

    • sparkles on 04/06/2015 - 20:32
      +1

      Yeah, but a PO is a nice way for a scammer to be physically untraceable. That way, no bikies, which seems to be the OzBargain go-to option when scammed by a scamming scammer.

      • centrelink on 05/06/2015 - 07:33
        +1

        Not fully untracable if you are willing to stand in front of his letter box until he goes in to get the mail.

        I find that confrontation is the best way to solve this. Police are always uselss (lost my faith in the police long ago NEVER DEPEND ON THEM!).

      • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 10:30
        +1

        No it's not. You need ID to get a PO box. The police (if they cared) could obtain the owner from AusPost.

        • sparkles on 05/06/2015 - 10:34
          +3

          See, that's the problem, the police won't care, so the scammer is effectively untraceable. Less so, that a street address and unless you want to wait at the PO boxes 24/7 until they turn up to collect their next lot of scammed tickets.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 10:17
    +1

    I didn't even know that Direct Deposits can bounce or can come from Cheques to deposit into someone else's account, or am I missing something?

    • meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 10:19
      +2

      My CommBank account said Deposit/Cheque. The bank couldn't confirm which it was but assured me it would go through in 3 business days.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 11:07
        +3

        Maybe there was a miscommunication there - the bank can't guarantee the money will go through, only that you'll know the outcome after three days.

        You can pay to expedite the process, and they'll manually do the checks, but otherwise it's all batch processed, hence the delay, so the bank doesn't know until the clearing process has finished.

        • meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 11:22

          I kept asking "Are you sure it will definitely be in my account after processing?" They replied "Yes, it will be in there." I asked the same thing numerous times throughout the call and during different calls. Same question and response each time.

        • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 11:36
          +1

          @meezyy: I'm not disagreeing with what you heard. Just saying that the bank can't know until the clearing process is done - either manually or via the automated batch process which takes days.

        • DrStinge on 04/06/2015 - 13:02
          +5

          @meezyy:

          Raise the issue with your bank, if it was on a phone call then it would of been recorded - you can use this to your advantage.

        • AlanHB on 04/06/2015 - 15:19

          @DrStinge:

          This appears to be you only source of recourse. You could follow it up with the police but it is unlikely anything will occur.

          However if you successfully argued that you relied upon the bank's representations to your detriment, there could be something there.

        • DrStinge on 04/06/2015 - 15:54

          @AlanHB:

          Yes you can argue negligence on the banks behalf - would be quite easy really.

        • meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 15:54
          +1

          @AlanHB: Had a chat with the bank today. They said that on all the occasions that I called, "at that time" everything was fine and going through. But they can never be sure until the last minute if it will go through or not - which they never decided the mention in my previous calls. Don't think can get anymore help from the bank. They just went real defensive about it. =\

        • DrStinge on 04/06/2015 - 16:28
          +2

          @meezyy:

          This is a standard response - if you're 100% sure they said it would "definitely go through" ask for a recording of the logs and bring it up as a matter of fact. A little push and shove will go along way - if they don't follow through take it up with the ACCC. It might take a few months but you will get there.

        • meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 16:43

          @DrStinge: Thanks for that advise. I will be doing that.

        • AlanHB on 04/06/2015 - 17:40
          +1

          @DrStinge: Agreed - ask for the recordings of the conversation. If not available ask for the filenotes of it.

        • McFly on 04/06/2015 - 18:50
          +4

          Try www.fos.org.au/about-us/what-we-do/ first.

        • what on 04/06/2015 - 21:57
          +3

          @DrStinge:

          I think McFly has it. I believe that the Financial Ombudsman deals with complaints regarding financial institutions and this is where OP needs to go if he wants to take his complaint further.

        • DrStinge on 04/06/2015 - 21:58

          @what:

          Thanks, that's right. I was actually trying to think of this at the time but it was escaping my mind.

    • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 11:12

      You can even buy a bank cheque with a personal cheque. A scammer can exchange that bank cheque for something expensive (a lot of sellers incorrectly think a bank cheque is guaranteed), and then a few days later the seller finds out the bank cheque bounces because the cheque used to buy it bounced.

      • [Deactivated] on 04/06/2015 - 11:53

        I didn't think that Banks were that stupid. But still I don't see how that's possible, as Bank Cheques are supposed to be "from the BANK to you", not "from X to you via the bank", so with a bank cheque that is pretty much directly between you and the bank, and you're only screwed if the Bank goes Bankrupt.

        • 2shoes on 04/06/2015 - 15:53

          Buyers can stop a bank cheque, eg. claim it was lost/stolen. So watch out for that.

      • t_c on 04/06/2015 - 20:18

        That's strange, whenever I have purchased a bank cheque the bank withdrawals the money immediately from my account.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 08:30

          You've bought a bank cheque with a personal cheque and the funds were taken immediately from your account?

        • t_c on 05/06/2015 - 08:38

          @Thrift:

          No, Whenever I've purchased a bank cheque they directly draw the funds from my bank account. ie: no funds = no cheque.

          essentially its the same as going to the teller and withdrawing cash from your account, only they give you the cheque instead of the cash.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 09:36

          @t_c: OK. I'm not sure why it's strange, is all.

        • t_c on 05/06/2015 - 09:56

          @Thrift:

          It's strange that you can buy a bank cheque with a personal cheque.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 09:57

          @t_c: Perhaps not if you buy it from a different bank.

        • t_c on 05/06/2015 - 10:08

          @Thrift:

          Is that confirmed as possible?

        • lgacb08 on 07/06/2015 - 08:37

          @Thrift: have you actually done it, because I'm pretty sure the other bank just say: 'come back in 2 days, we'll give you the cheque once this clear'. It's just like trying to buy dick smith gift card during their weekly sale nowadays.

    • McFly on 04/06/2015 - 14:15

      You can make a deposit using any accepted method into anyones account.

  • whodidthat on 04/06/2015 - 12:39

    If it does turn out to be fraudulent, report it to the police.
    Get a copy of the cheque and take it with you along with all the information you have about the buyer.
    If you have any e-mails direct from their e-mail account, print out with the full header information - it may show the IP address it was sent from.

    You can also sue the person in small claims court.

  • Lancerx on 04/06/2015 - 13:08
    +3

    that explain..you're a chelsea fan..flame away..

  • sulmar on 04/06/2015 - 14:52

    I don't understand why you couldn't just wait until they money actually arrived in your account and then proceed further? You were the seller, no rush?

    Should've made it clear that you would only post them once money arrived in your account.

    Anyways, always feel bad when hear stories about people getting scammed on Gumtree. Not really an ideal platform for a newbie tbh.

    • DrStinge on 04/06/2015 - 16:29

      From the sounds of it (the game was last night) he cashed the cheque and had to transfer the tickets in time.

    • meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 16:41

      The game was coming up soon. The buyer had said he made a deposit into my account. In my statement it said "Deposit/Cheque". I called the bank to double check it was coming through, they reassured me that it was.It wouldn't of cleared in time and the bank said everything was fine, so I sent the tickets. They told me that money couldn't be taken out of my account once a deposit was made unless they escalate the matter and make it into a dispute.

      • bluedufflecoat on 05/06/2015 - 08:31

        Next time, ask them to pay via PayPal, gifted. No fees, and because it's gifted, they can't turn around and day, you didn't meet your end of the deal…

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 09:39

          But if they are a scammer they can do a chargeback with their bank and PayPal will try to take the gifted money back.

      • BartholemewH on 06/06/2015 - 00:02

        This is an outright lie regarding the money only coming out if the matter is escalated. As you found out unfortunately.

  • minniethemoocher on 04/06/2015 - 17:46
    +3

    I would definitely pursue it, even if I had to wait til my exams finished.

  • martian_rob on 04/06/2015 - 18:04
    -6

    Love it. A ticket Scalper getting ripped off instead of the public.

    • jackary on 04/06/2015 - 18:30

      I voted give up. Not necessarily because I don't think you have avenues worth pursuing, but if you're stressing etc, in the big scheme of things you've learnt an important lesson, and it seems you've come to terms with the fact that it's a loss anyway.

      Edit: sorry commenter above, not sure why it's shown up as a reply.

    • McFly on 04/06/2015 - 18:55
      +1

      If you are going to make accusations, try reading the whole thread first.

  • Ughhh on 04/06/2015 - 18:57

    I guess the lesson learnt is

    1. Gumtree is for cash on pick up only
    2. If cash on pick up is not possible, keep in mind how long a bank deposit clearance takes
    3. Never send item until payment is cleared.
    4. Don't leave it to the last minute, sell it before the item expires, while keeping in mind the bank clearance time.
      eg. Ticket for concert is on Friday, you should email the etickets on Thursday night latest, give 3 days for bank clearance, so Monday is the last day to safely get rid of it (unless cash on pick up).

    You're probably better off discounting the items and get some guaranteed money rather than leaving it to the last minute, risk being scammed or dealing with the uncertainty whether you will get paid or not after sending the item.

  • tassietigermaniac on 04/06/2015 - 20:41

    I believe that as long as you have proof of purchase and the ticket numbers you can cancel them with the ticket provider. That way they will have gained nothing. You may even be able to get a slight refund depending on conditions of purchase

    • McFly on 04/06/2015 - 20:54
      +1

      Yeah, just cancel the tickets OP - problem solved!
      (But the ride in my car will cost you!)

    • 2pro4sho on 04/06/2015 - 20:56
      +1

      Game has been and gone.

      • tassietigermaniac on 05/06/2015 - 20:46

        My bad, I normally follow the Liverpool games (don't you dare mention Stoke!!!)

  • djhaydon on 04/06/2015 - 21:06
    +3

    Have the bank sent you the cheque back?

    I was under the impression that if it bounces the account holder is charged a fee each time it fails!

    I would try and present it as many times as I can. Also, perhaps your OzBargain friends can start sending random stuff to his PO Box …

    Call me vindictive . . (good luck with your exams!)

  • cheesecactus on 04/06/2015 - 21:36

    Ah, its unfortunate, but in a couple months you wont care anymore.

    Focus on your exams, if you mess up there you'll remember it for a while :)

  • strangeloops66 on 04/06/2015 - 21:50
    +1

    I think I got Scammed! :(

    FIXED: I got scammed.

  • jazzcomp on 04/06/2015 - 22:11

    This is the reason why people prefer bank cheque or online bank transfer instead of personal cheque. The funds are guaranteed from a bank cheque.

    • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 08:28
      +1

      Bank cheques aren't guaranteed, they are no safer than personal cheques - both need the same amount of time to clear before you've actually got the funds.

      • 9674784 on 05/06/2015 - 11:22
        -1

        Bank cheques ARE. To get one, you withdraw the money out of your account then and there to actually get the cheque.

        It is personal cheques that are not.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 11:31
          -1

          If you're selling something, someone giving you a bank cheque is no safer than them giving you a personal cheque. In both cases you've been given a bit of paper that could be worthless.
          Bank cheques and personal cheques require the same amount of time to clear, and until that time you do not have any guarantee that you'll get the funds.

          If a bank cheque was good as cash, or guaranteed payment, your bank would credit your account immediately rather than go through the 3-or-so day cheque clearing process.

        • 9674784 on 06/06/2015 - 11:02

          @Thrift:

          If you deposit the bank cheque to the same bank it was drawn on, it is instant. And even of not, it WILL clear, it is withdrawn funds and takes A LOT of effort to cancel or recall one once deposited.

          Unless you've worked in banks half your life don't be a dick and down vote something you know nothing about.

        • Ducky555 on 06/06/2015 - 18:11

          You realise the difference in bank cheques is that the money has already been withdrawn out of a customer's account into a central account ready to be sent by the bank, right?

          Also, cheque takes time to clear is because they need to be manually banked into an account by someone in the bank rather than an EFT.

          There's a reason why bank cheques costs money to be drawn.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2015 - 20:46

          @Phreakuency: So despite the fact the banks themselves say bank cheques aren't guaranteed, they're not as good as cash, you need to wait for them to clear which can take 3 days; despite news stories explaining people have actually lost expensive cars, bobcats, forklifts, truck engines because they didn't wait for a bank cheque to clear, news stories that report hundreds and thousands of blank bank cheques get stolen and then used to purchase things; despite ALL that, you still want to tell people bank cheques are totally safe before they clear?

          That would be irresponsible advice from someone who had worked in a bank, and just terrible advice in general.

          It's really quite simple: if a stranger gives you a bit of paper in exchange for something valuable, you can't trust it until the bank has cleared it.

          Oh, I didn't downvote you, I hadn't even thought of it until you mentioned it.

  • brick007123 on 04/06/2015 - 22:12

    OP, you should focus on your study right now, repeat a course in uni is costly and time consuming. All the best for your upcoming exams!

  • dbun1 on 05/06/2015 - 07:54

    Probably echoing what's been said above, but Gumtree is COD only. Hand over the goods and get cold hard cash in your hand.

  • 01011010 on 05/06/2015 - 10:16

    did you realise the cheque bounced before or after the game? If it was before, then why didn't you go to the seats at punch the guy in the head (or at least question him).

    if it was after the game, then you should have known that the cheque would clear after the game and not send (i understand you took the banks word on it) - but that's the lesson to learn - until you can withdraw the cash from your account, it means nothing.

  • MrMaxwell on 05/06/2015 - 12:59
    +1

    This is why many deposits or payments are requested via BANK Cheque only - the money has to be physically given to the bank before the BANK cheque is issued. A normal cheque is just a piece of paper until 3 days later when it has been cleared. What a big loophole this is!

    I have seen retailers call up a service similar to a credit card authorisation and get a cheque clearance number to approve the transaction - why don't banks do this?

    • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 13:38

      A normal cheque is just a piece of paper until 3 days later when it has been cleared. What a big loophole this is!

      A bank cheque is just a piece of paper until 3 days later when it has been cleared.

      • ensanguined on 05/06/2015 - 14:58

        What?

      • MrMaxwell on 05/06/2015 - 15:13

        Huh? Bank Cheques are cleared instantly.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 15:55

          Australian Bankers Association: Cheque Clearance - three business days:

          WHAT ABOUT BANK CHEQUES AND CLEARANCE?
          Bank cheques, drawn by a bank on itself, are a widely accepted means of safe payment and a safe alternative to carrying large amounts of cash. Bank cheques can be purchased for a fee. A bank cheque has to be cleared like any other cheque and can be dishonoured if it was stolen, lost destroyed, signature was forged; the cheque was fraudulently and materially altered and for other reasons that would affect its validity.

          Commbank Support Community:

          A Bank Cheque will take the same period of time (3 business days). As with a normal cheque, you can request for the processing time to be reduced by placing a Special Answer on the cheque or requesting the manager release the cheque (this is up to the manager's discretion and not guaranteed).

          even when it's a Commonwealth bank cheque being deposited into a Commonwealth bank account:

          "When the named person (who happens to have a Commbank account) banks the cheque into their Commbank account are the funds available immediately. If not, why not?"
          The funds follow the same processing procedure as a normal cheques, which means it will generally clear within 3 business days. If the depositor requests for a Special Clearance, the cheque may be cleared faster.

          Westpac Facebook:

          bank cheques go through a checking process to ensure the cheque hasn't been cancelled or stopped so it is not an instant thing unfortunately. Just for future reference if you want you can request a 'special answer' on a cheque which can speed up the process by a day or two.

        • [Deactivated] on 05/06/2015 - 16:35

          "Do bank cheques clear instantly or same amount of time as personal cheques? Do I have to wait for it to clear, or is it guaranteed?"

          https://twitter.com/NAB/status/606704680245161985

          @NAB 4:10 PM - 5 Jun 2015
          a bank cheque can still take up to 3 business days to clear - it would be best to wait as it can be cancelled ^TC

          https://twitter.com/Westpac/status/606707992541691905

          @Westpac 4:23 PM - 5 Jun 2015
          Hi there, bank cheques also takes 3 business days to clear. Regs, ~Jay

          https://twitter.com/ANZ_AU/status/606713425213931520

          @ ANZ_AU 4:45 PM - 5 Jun 2015
          Bank cheques can still take 3-5 business days to clear. ^NP

          https://twitter.com/CommBank/status/606714275512655872

          @CommBank 4:48 PM - 5 Jun 2015
          bank cheques at times may still take up to 3 business days to be cleared. Thanks

          Bank cheques are a fine way to pay and be paid. Being paid by bank cheque or personal cheque, you don't have any money until it clears in three days. If you're worried about someone paying you with a dud personal cheque, you should be just as worried about being paid with a dud bank cheque.

        • 9674784 on 06/06/2015 - 11:18

          @Thrift:

          No such thing as a dud bank cheque unless it's cancelled.

          If OP makes a bit of effort he can track down and sort this out.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/06/2015 - 21:03

          @Phreakuency: No such thing as a dud bank cheque? I'm sure these sellers disagree:

          Jan 2013:

          It will be alleged Chicken swiped 800 bank cheques from the Commonwealth Bank of Australia while they were in transit at Brisbane on December 23, 2009.

          Police alleged he used the stolen bank cheques to buy two truck engines and an engine cylinder head from All Diesels on the Gold Coast between May and June, 2010 as well as two truck engines and some parts from GDR Truck Spares on June 9, 2010.

          It is also alleged Chicken used the stolen bank cheques to purchase two forklifts in September, 2010 and a bulldozer at Tiaro in April, 2011.

          OCT 2010

          THE Commonwealth Bank has warned businesses they need to take precautions clearing bank cheques after several Brisbane businesses were dudded by conmen passing off stolen, forged cheques.

          Starline Forklifts Pty Ltd, a family business in Coopers Plains in Brisbane's south, lost $28,600 when it accepted one of the CBA cheques for the purchase of two forklifts.

          A CBA spokesman would not disclose how many of the bank cheques – drawn on the CBA's operations centre in Melbourne – were in circulation or how they were stolen.

          He said the CBA's bank cheques should be treated the same as personal cheques.
          …
          "While we sympathise with your loss, I wish to advise that there is no basis on which the bank is liable for this forged instrument," he said.

  • Jayzz55 on 05/06/2015 - 15:55
    +2

    I was in a similar case like yours in the past. and I suggested you to pursue this matter to the Bank and police after your exams.
    You'll be surprised that you're not the only victims, and collectively if enough people report it, the scammer will get caught by the police.
    This happened to my case, and there are people who were scammed by the same person (based on the pattern of name, mobile, email, etc ) actually built a forum and tracked where this scammer was based on the victim's report. Finally the scammer did get caught after a long 9 months chase. so Yeah, I would recommend pursuing this, and your report will help similar people out there too :)

  • henreyes on 05/06/2015 - 18:09
    -8

    2 scum supporters doing a transaction with one another.

    What other outcome would you have expected?

    • meantolive on 06/06/2015 - 01:09
      +3

      Please read OP's comments on this thread before jumping into conclusions :)

    • jackary on 06/06/2015 - 11:02

      A useful contribution would be a good start

    • meantolive on 06/06/2015 - 21:38

      This is what the OP posted. Sorry, I don't know how to quote.

      meezyy on 04/06/2015 - 10:17

      "If some people are able to get better seats than the ones they have they might go for them like I did. Especially if it might be your only chance to see your favourite team. Didn't even try to rip off anyone, just covering my ticket costs + fees. Maybe everything isn't what it sounds like?"

  • Lucky13 on 06/06/2015 - 11:50

    I think maybe next time when selling online just make sure to either get your money by cash at the time, if bank transfer make sure you get and withdraw the money before you send/give goods, or use Paypal where you have seller/buyer protection etc. Id consider your money gone personally and if you think pursuing it further is going to impact on you studying for your exams Id just concentrate on whats important which is your exams and your future. Good luck with everything though :)

  • sal78 on 06/06/2015 - 17:51

    call police. it's fraud and they can get info from the cheque. bank chqs dont bounce.

    • Bargainaholic on 06/06/2015 - 19:16

      The personal cheque could have been written from a stolen cheque book

  • T1OOO on 06/06/2015 - 19:57
    -1

    I feel bad about this BUT OP. Can u pls tell us how u ended up needing to sell 6 tickets so close to the date. Were u trying to make some money scalping and got burnt. 2 wrongs don't make a right of course.

    • McFly on 07/06/2015 - 01:35

      I feel bad about…

      …not reading the whole thread (or at least the OP's posts?)

  • kme3193 on 07/06/2015 - 10:12
    +2

    Had this exact scenario happen to me with Westpac - I phoned them and explained I was a bit dubious about the buyer and was put on hold while they checked with the branch and told me it was fine and that the bank manager had personally taken the deposit. Mailed the tickets and wham - a day later funds gone as it was a bounced cheque.

    I got onto Westpac as it was upon their advice that I mailed them and was (after some stuffing around) awarded an ex gratis payment for the lost amount.

    I was also able to screw the scammer as I called Ticketek and had the tickets cancelled - reported them lost or stolen. The only drawback was they do not re-issue the tickets until an hour before the event at the venue which prevents re-selling. I did prevent the scammer getting in however and gave the tickets to friends - fortunately I was already going so was no drama to pick them up at the venue.

    Not sure what date your tickets are for but if its still future call and cancel them!

  • cantstanzya on 07/06/2015 - 21:57

    Sell the debt to a debt collector

  • Brucet on 13/06/2015 - 17:11

    I got Scammed from ebay last month.
    Paid for it and never receive it.

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