I normally buy and sell my games second hand but my friend pointed out the other day that this is technically worse than piracy, as the publisher misses out on at least 2 sales (me, the person I sell to and so on). He's got a good point. Any thoughts?
Buying/selling 2nd hand (2+ lost sales) vs piracy (1 lost sale)
M0RGAN on 07/05/2015 - 13:49
Comments
How is it worse than piracy. What's stopping a pirated game being distributed 2/3/4 times? At least there is an initial purchase which the publisher will benefit from when buying genuine.
True, but the initial purchase has been made regardless of the second person's decision. They aren't contributing to the publisher either way, only that by buying and selling it themselves, they deny another sale (the third person would have otherwise bought it new). From a pure numbers perspective, are they actually doing more harm by doing the right thing?
Why do you think the other person would buy it new? There are plenty of things I buy 2nd hand that I would never pay new price for.
Even if they wouldn't have bought it new, the net effect of the two methods would become the same. So its 1+ lost sale vs 1 lost sale (buying and selling is equal to or worse than piracy). Plus, they would have bought it off someone else anyway.
@M0RGAN: Not really the same. Both reduces sales by 1 (the logic that 2nd hand market reduces sales by 2 is lost on me, please elaborate for me?) but 2nd hand market does make people more open to buying the game anew to begin with. As in, if I know that I can recoup some of the price of the game, I'd more open to buying the game when it gets released. Not to mention, the money that the person recoups can be used for buying other new games as well.
All these are not seen with piracy.
Though in terms of publishers' view, 2nd hand market does reduce possible customers who could've bought the game. As in, let's say that there are groups of people and they have variety of "prices" that they are willing to pay, the people who buys games 2nd hand would include those people who would've paid for the new games. That being said, this applies to piracy as well. So they try to reduce that with online multiplayer aspects, online distribution, etc etc as well.
if they want to stop people selling second hand, they must find a way to inject the game to our brain so only one person can own it.
xbox one?
i thought they changed their mind about the restriction? anyway, any company doing that will not be popular
They did, but they were trying to do that.
Ahhh, the backlash from the public, it was glorious.
@AznMitch: Sony even updated their presentation right after the Microsoft presentation, throwing up the "NO DRM!" on the projection, much to overwhelming applause.
Just another broken promise from E3 2013.
http://au.ign.com/articles/2013/08/22/microsoft-xbox-one-wil…
Piracy means $0 to the publisher.
Selling second hand means there is retaining value, enough for the publisher to charge $90 per title instead of, say, $20.So, if you said selling second hand may rise the initial purchase value for future titles, you may be correct. The only way it can be 'worse' than pirating, is that if they rise the price too much, then people will be more inclined to pirate it. However, they'll still make some money out of it, rather than 0.
Significantly drop the price of older games, enable easy distribution & DRM — that would reduce piracy and discourage 2nd hand market. Oh wait, that's what Steam has been doing.
Which is great! There is no 2nd hand market for PC games though… Unless you mean discourage people getting games on console?
dont be silly
Few points:
* If you gift the game to your friend or relative for free, then what about the publisher's money. I think once game is bought, publisher made their money.
* If you would have sold the game back to publisher then how would publisher/user deal with it. Case scenario of EBGames where they buy and sell second hand games.
Also every item has expiry/shelf life. Once game is sold publisher account for its expiry life or accidental damage. So don't worry and keep selling the second hand stuff to help you buy new one.By buying second hand you are helping keep the value of second hand games up which encourages first purchaser's to purchase the game (knowing they can sell it for a reasonable price on the second hand market). Additionally, you are doing the right thing by buying an actual copy of the game. If everyone pirated the publisher misses out on all sales.
<"By buying second hand you are helping keep the value of second hand games up… (etc.)"
This is essentially what rompa said, above, and it is the best point made on the subject I reckon. To apply a car analogy like someone else did above, people would not be willing to spend nearly as much as they are on a new car, if there was a rule that they were not allowed to on-sell it later.
Although the payment for 2/3/4 hand game transaction doesn't goes into the publisher, the second hand market creates a residual value for some 1st hand buyer, lowering their cost of ownership, and faciliate the sales in the first place.
Without the 2nd hand market, quantity sold for new release would dropped. People willing to pay $100 and not sell the game at all would still be there. But people expect to pay or can only pay $50 will have no choice but wait for the price to drop. As a result publisher will need to drop their RRP for new round release if they expect the same margin to be made.
A 2nd hand market actually helps the publisher to capitalise from the product faster.
It is just 2 cents from my ex economics study.
Damn it…I'm going to screw the system and play Far Cry 4 a second time! mwahahahaha! (oh…you've all done that already???)
Some companies, such as EB games, practically survive on pre-owned games, as they make 100% of the profit from the sale. However, that's AFTER they bought it back/had it returned.
These numbers are all made up, oh god don't quote me, but here's a fun example.
EB buys a game for the stock price of $60.
EB Puts it on the shelf and sells it for $98 (A % goes to the publisher, supplier, etc)
You buy it, but trade it in and they give you $40
EB puts it back on the shelf for "Pre-owned: $78" and they make 100% of that profit.But as even the first guy said, the devs already got their money. This is just another scheme by pirates to justify their BS. But EB and these stores are definitely making money off this.
The problem is that multiple people were playing the game and only one person had actually paid the developers. They were/are counter-acting this with single use multiplayer codes, downloadable packs/extra content, and member registrations. Customer satisfaction be damned.
Thanks for the all the explanations guys, good to know I'm still (indirectly) supporting the games industry (btw, to the person who asked why I thought it was 2 lost sales, I buy AND sell my games second hand, so that's counting me and the person I sell to…)
Once you buy it publisher has no ownership rights if you resell.. you aren't copying it (piracy), and the original rights owner has factored in their profit on the retail price on the original item. you can re-sell as many times as possible thereafter. Personally I prefer to keep my games - normally not worth the price - just hoard it and add to the collection.. Digital purchases in Australia need to be cheaper though is the other side of the second hand game sale debate. if the original rights owner does that ppl will be purchasing via that medium instead of 2nd hand games…
Your friend needs convincing this is a load of bollocks not you. So, tell your friend to walk into a 2nd hand book shop and make the same argument. Surely if the logic is sound then he should be able to destroy the store owner in an argument.
That's like saying Ford misses out on someone selling a 2nd or 3rd hand car.
They've already made their money from the initial purchase.