Refilling of gas bottles for home use - is it possible to do it yourself at petrol stations

Lysander on 04/04/2015 - 21:16
Last edited 14/04/2015 - 00:41

Hello everybody,

I was wondering if it is possible to take the gas bottle one uses for gas at home, and refill them at the petrol station selling gas (not petrol, actually gas), and then use the filled bottle at home for the gas appliances such as heaters etc. as that would be much cheaper than buying from the gas companies.
I have heard that the gas is virtually the same and is basically delivered by the same wholesale gas truck.

Would that work?

If anybody has instructions on how to do this it would be much appreciated.

Thank you. I hope you all have a great evening and a Happy Easter tomorrow.

Edit: This question is NOT about the legality of filling gas bottles but merely about whether it is actually possible to do so (as regards the connections and the gas used)

Home & Garden

Comments

  • [Deactivated] on 04/04/2015 - 22:42

    In New Zealand you can get your gas bottle refilled at virtually all servos.

    It was very uncommon to swap bottles as you'd refill and buy a new one of yours is too old.
    You couldn't do it yourself as an attendant would have to do it for you.

    Back on topic, I've seen one place here that did it but it wasn't any cheaper than swapping your bottle.

    • resubaehtgnolhcs on 04/04/2015 - 22:59

      I think OP is talking about the larger gas bottles that are used in homes to power gas appliances, as opposed to portable gas bottles for the BBQ etc. These larger gas bottles are normally refilled by gas companies who have their trucks come around to your place to refill your bottles.

      • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2015 - 00:23

        You could get them refilled but most probably wouldn't bother because of how big and heavy they are.

  • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/04/2015 - 22:48

    I'm not sure I understand the question; specifically, are you talking about the little gas bottles used for BBQs, or are you talking about the much larger gas 'tanks' that people use, for example, when they don't have 'mains' gas supplied to their house (in pipes/ from the street)? Your post is a bit ambiguous in that sense.

  • GnarlyKnuckles on 04/04/2015 - 22:54
    +1

    I have a slightly different question, related to the OP's… I get free (mains) gas on Saturdays as part of a deal I'm on… how can I bottle up large amounts of that free gas every Saturday, to use during the rest of the week?!?
    Would this be against the law, provided I got a qualified erm, 'gas dude' to set up the storage system?

    • resubaehtgnolhcs on 04/04/2015 - 23:03
      +1

      I guess that wouldn't be impossible, but would take some plumbing and valves to be able to divert the mains gas to large storage bottles and then again more plumbing and another diverter/shut off valve to feed your stored gas back to the appliances. Not sure of the legality of this ….but I like your thinking!

    • GaelicAU on 04/04/2015 - 23:41
      +3

      I'm curious to know how your gas company knows how much gas you use on a particular day?

      • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2015 - 02:27
        +2

        I may be wrong, but if there's no (overworked and underpaid) dude/dudette running around every Saturday to gauge everyone's gas usage, then the provider most likely follows a standard formula for calculating the free usage…

        For example:

        Total gas usage
        [divided by]
        number of days in billing cycle
        [multiplied by]
        number of Saturdays in billing cycle

        and this amount would be subtracted from the total as free usage.

        • GaelicAU on 05/04/2015 - 02:33
          -1

          Manual work would need the unlikely event of having someone there each Friday at 11.59pm and Sunday 12.01 am. Likelyhood = Zero.

          As for your calculation, if the user were to leech the gas at a crazy rate on Saturday, they would end up paying 6/7ths of the cost at the normal rate.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/04/2015 - 19:06

          @GaelicAU: Conversely, the gas would be 1/7 overpriced and storing gas would be pointless as they don't know which particular day you use the gas anyway

    • RockyRaccoon on 05/04/2015 - 07:29

      The only way you could store this is to buy some sort of gas compressor, so you could pump it into a LPG type bottle. It can be done, as you can buy CNG (compressed Natural Gas) for cars etc.

      However apart from the dangers of doing this at home, and whether you would even be able (permits etc) to buy this equipment, the cost of the equipment amortised would mean its no bargain.

      Checking the internet, I can find no reference to free gas on saturdays except in the UK. In the UK they have smart meters for gas.

      AGL does have free power on Saturday, but it only refers to electricity not gas. Are you sure you are getting the gas free?

    • rigby75 on 05/04/2015 - 08:00

      Free gas on Saturday is a1/7 discount on your bill normally.
      As for home refilling bottles. Yes it can be done but you need a to install a cng compressor unit to fill your bottles. The bottles are expensive and set up cost would be high.

    • bobbified on 06/04/2015 - 23:01

      sorry.. please delete - noticed someone already posted what I was writing about.

  • airzone on 04/04/2015 - 23:23
    +1

    Is it even the same type of gas? i.e. natural gas vs propane

    • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2015 - 09:38

      You can use either one, when you buy gas appliances they come with two jet sizes (one for natural and one for propane). You obviously just install whichever one suits.

      • airzone on 05/04/2015 - 20:47

        I was wondering why there were extra jets that came with my stove lol…

  • Davo1111 on 05/04/2015 - 00:12

    why dont you talk to the servo owner?

  • Lysander on 05/04/2015 - 02:08

    I am talking about the big bottles, not the BBQ ones.

    I would talk to the servo owner but so far I have never seen him there, just some underpaid students, backpackers etc. working away.

    It would be great if it could be done as it will work out much cheaper. I think the gas is the same or very similar and can be burned by the appliances without problem, in my case, just the hot water heater.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2015 - 02:31
      +4

      "It would be great if it could be done as it will work out much cheaper."

      I reckon there might be restrictions on who's allowed to transport those big gas bottles around. I mean, what if you've got 3 full ones in the boot and some turkey rear-ends you? I'd imagine they're pretty tightly regulated.

      But Lys, understand this: this is not legal advice!!

      ;P

      • [Deactivated] on 05/04/2015 - 09:41
        +3

        250+L for LPG you need a placard and a dangerous goods license, as well as all the bells and whistles that go with that.

        • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2015 - 12:05
          +1

          Yeah I thought so… even decades ago when I used to drive a fork-lift, we had to secure the big ones into place with special belt-type apparatuses etc., when loading them onto palettes/into trucks etc.; and that was before all these types of regulations really took off. I bet there's a heap more regs now.

    • lead_org on 06/04/2015 - 21:48
      +1

      The large bottles can only filled by the LPG gas supply companies with the right refill truck (most of them are exchanged on home site). Petrol stations are not certified to refill these large gas bottles.

      Also, there are very strict laws regarding how you connect your gas appliances to the gas supply.

      • GnarlyKnuckles on 07/04/2015 - 02:22
        +1

        "Also, there are very strict laws regarding how you connect your…"

        Be careful here lead_org. The OP 'Lysander' has posted a question here that would seem to be an obvious attempt to solicit opinions/advice on the legalities of filling gas tanks oneself at servos' etc.

        Yet, simultaneously in other threads, the OP is warning/scaring anyone offering any advice on this website that could be loosely construed as 'legal advice', that they are thereafter vulnerable to facing the full-force of the law (i.e. they could be legitimately prosecuted for providing unqualified legal advice).

        So this begs the question Lys… did you pose this question here on OzB on the 'unstated understanding' that only those with law qualifications and knowledge/expertise in the area would respond to it? Or were you actually trying to trick poor peeps without any legal qualifications into giving you advice pertaining to the legalities of your question?

        Because as at least one of us knows, that would constitute entrapment…

        • lead_org on 11/04/2015 - 01:07
          +1

          yes i saw the thread about the Facebook thing.

  • Cluster on 05/04/2015 - 02:51
    +1

    So, what you want to do is refill your gas bottle from the LPG pump instead of paying the premium price for bottled gas? It's unlikely any service station will let you do this because afaik only approved and standards compliant LPG converted cars can be connected. Where I live few service stations even have the ability to refill your own 9kg LPG bottle. It's simply not worth tying up one employee to fill a gas bottle when a company can deliver them all in bulk once a day.

  • garage sale on 05/04/2015 - 05:10
    +2

    they won't let you fill your own bottles anymore. With inexperienced people getting freezer burn from the gas, and incorrect bleeding to ensure bottle is full, but not overfilled, the practice was stopped many years ago. Also you can overfill (past the tube inside the bottle) and without expansion space they can leak on hot days ….. hence either filled by operator or swap and go who fill by weight. The swap n go web site has info on how to fill bottles and safety for operators. Some people decant from 9 kg $22 fill into small bottles because small bottles seem bad value compared to 9 kg e.g.1kg $12, 2kg $16, 4 kg $18. The costs for small bottles involve operators and the cost is in labour not the gas. the only places I know that still fill empty bottles for you BCF and some Rays outdoor stores, most othe places just do swap n go now. Due to popularity of small bottles at these places for people doing camping e.g 1 kg and 2 kg bottles.

  • garage sale on 05/04/2015 - 05:21

    oh and gas types, in swap n go is mainly propane, natural gas is mainly methane and the car gas lpg can be mainly propane or a mixture of propane and butane ( up to 40% butane).

  • endotherm on 05/04/2015 - 08:02
    +1

    Some years ago I converted my BBQ from bottled gas to household natural gas (the BBQ lives next to the gas hot water heater, so all the pipes were handy and exposed). I was able to buy a kit from Barbeques Galore which had all the hoses and bayonette fittings etc. The most important thing was to change the jets in the burners, they need to be a different size when using different gas than what the unit was originally built for. I can't remember if it was bigger or smaller, but they stressed that it was dangerous to use the wrong jets with the wrong gas. I believe the gasses burn differently and produces different energy for the same volume. You would need to re-jet all your home appliances, I'm not sure what would be involved with that, and if it is even worth it.

  • Mad Max on 05/04/2015 - 09:13

    Assuming that you can manage to fill your BBQ bottle at the LPG bowser, the gas would be a mix of butane and propane and sometimes other junk stuff it is in the mixture.
    The gas they put in gas bottles is propane. Is propane cleaner?
    I would be worried the auto LPG mixture could contain harmful stuff no good for the food on the BBQ.
    Does anybody know?

  • backpaqer on 05/04/2015 - 09:34

    Just built a new house with no gas connection. Saves the gas connection fee which was usually double the gas I would use.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 05/04/2015 - 12:11

      But now you have to have big gas bottles onsite right? Or have electric hot water which is expensive, and an electric oven/stove, which is crap to cook on (hence the insightful phrase "now we're cookin' with gas!"). I guess having those bottles on-site is no problem, provided you have the space, and your joint never goes up in flames.

  • t_c on 05/04/2015 - 12:33

    I wonder if its possible to buy a old car that runs on gas, plumbing in a t-piece a valve then a gas fitting. probably illegal though, so don't do this.

  • Bonsaichop on 05/04/2015 - 12:58

    Gas bottles need to be certified to be safe to store gas. This is why the bottle swapping system is common. If you bottle has not been pressure tested and certified they cannot fill it for you.

    Admittedly the last time I did this was many years ago, but I had to go to a local BOC to get my large LPG bottles tested before they would fill them, they also warned me that if they didn't pass that I could not get them back as it would present a safety hazzard and would be destroyed.

    With regards to storing natural gas, from what I understand you would not be able to store enough to make it practical. Natural gas is provided as gas, whereas LPG is 'Liquid Petroleum Gas", much like the butane liquid gas in your lighter, under the pressures it is stored under it can be stored as a liquid and contain more. The gas pressure that comes from the gas line supplied to your house does not reach anywhere near the pressure that would be suitable to contain enough. Think of it like trying to store usable amounts of gas by blowing up balloons (very dramatised to make my point). It's not worth the hassle.

  • joannatan on 06/04/2015 - 20:12

    why would you risk your life to save some money ?

  • cashless on 06/04/2015 - 22:20

    I think OP is talking about filling 45kg (large) bottles of gas at a servo that fills BBQ bottles (either 8.5 or 9kg). I don't think there's any suggestion of filling with autogas, correct?
    In which case, the 45kg & 9kg gas bottles both contain the same blend of butane & propane gas. So in chemical terms, they are equivalent.

    However, there are 2 issues
    1) I think the prices for 45kg gas (delivered) is approx 5x the price of a 9kg bottle refill at the servo. So no saving to be had
    2) I can't see any servo I know allowing you to fill a 45kg bottle. It'd be a big problem I think.

  • Onysius on 06/04/2015 - 22:48

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think the "big" gas tanks/bottles are LNG (same as connected) not LPG (BBQ) - meaning the regulators on the appliances are different.
    I know that when I got my BBQ connected to my home gas line, I had to get a new regulator for it, be cause it was a different type of gas, different pressures .. blah blah woof woof.
    The plumber who connected it all up, told me that if I hadn't changed the regulator, it would have turned the BBQ into a bomb.

  • Lysander on 06/04/2015 - 23:42

    I also think it is LNG as I think I have read a while ago of people who refilled their 45kg gas bottles at servos. I just cannot find any info if that is true, still possible, and instructions on how to do it.
    In any case, thank you to all of you who replied to my query. All the information is much appreciated.

    • GnarlyKnuckles on 07/04/2015 - 00:15

      "I think I have read a while ago of people who refilled their 45kg gas bottles at servos."

      I suspect that's absolute crap.

  • gasman2016 on 05/02/2016 - 16:43

    If you use bottles gas at home (45kg) how do you know when you're running low? And how do you get a refill? Do you have to call up the supplier to fill up/swap? If it's a swap do they compensate you for any gas still in the tank? e.g. if you've got 10% left in the tank do you get 10% off the new tank?

    Sorry for all the questions, new to this gas business!

    Thanks

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