Is it illegal to go to work early at an pension/retirement house?

Lmashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 07:48

Okay, I know the title sounds a bit extreme, but that is the question that bothers my parents at my parent's house.

My parents live at one of the unit house (it is a rent) where there's 8 units in total. 4 units on the ground level and 4 units upstairs.
It is a pension/retirement unit, so only the people aged 65+ can live here.
The problem is with the neighbour upstairs.
My parents have been living in this unit for around 4 months now, and since my dad has a heart condition unexpectedly, I have been living with my parents temporarily. My parents are cleaners and they have to leave house at around 7 a.m.

But for the last couple of months, a lady upstairs kept on complaining that they have to wake up early because of us.
She said she cannot sleep in the morning because of us and wants to "do something about it, if you are gonna keep making noises like this every morning".
When I talked to her, she said "this is an retirement home, most of us don't go to work in the morning your parents have to find a different place or something where it does not affect others"
She believes that the noise is coming from cooking breakfast in the morning.
However my parents are trying very careful not to make a noise in the morning.

First question: Is it illegal to cook breakfast early in the morning before going to work? (Do they really need to buy breakfast every day just to make no noise?)

Also, this was a months ago or so.
My parents had to go overseas to get medical surgery due to my dad's heart condition. (Could not have done it here because of his language barriers and he wanted to get it done overseas)
They were away for around 6 weeks, so they asked me to stay at their place and take care of the house - clean the house etc.
And so I did.
However the lady upstairs was telling me that "by law, I cannot live here. This is the place for aged 65 and over."
I have told her that my dad was sick and went overseas to get it checked up, and they are coming back in few weeks. And the fact that I'm housekeeping while they are away. However she did not believe me. She was saying "I don't want to see you here again. No body likes you living here"
I was very frustrated.

Second question: Is it illegal for me to housekeep an pension/retirement house while my parents are away?

My parents have decided to move within 4 months or so when the contract end.
Even if it turns out not illegal for the questions above, I don't want to slam it to her face and say you are wrong,
but I just want to know whether it is us that are wrong.

I would appreciate your help.
Thanks in advance.

General Discussion

Comments

  • ESEMCE on 03/03/2015 - 08:04
    +2

    Definitely not illegal, possibly (unlikely) against the terms and conditions (but you'll have to read them).

    People will always find something to complain about, especially when they're bored and lonely..
    I'm guessing there's a fiar chance of "race" being an issue too.
    Maybe you need to invite her down for breakfast? It's probably delicious smells waking her up!

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:54

      Haha yeah I guess those soups my parents make is smells too delicious for them and she just wanted to have some! :P
      Actually, I might actually ask her to come down some day haha

  • petey on 03/03/2015 - 08:33
    +2

    Not illegal, if it is in the t&c who will enforce them andddd does she have solid evidence it is your parents cooking breakfast. Some people are just bitter and jelly. Tell Old Lady Hubbard you have no idea what she's talking about and tell her your parents are retired too they just like to play dress ups at 7am, not that it is any of her business. Sounds like she's a demented old bat, best choice make more noise.

    I have a friend who lives in a Unit upstairs and the guy below would rant and rave because he would flush his toilet after hes done the business in the morning. Although noise should be kept to a minimum there is no where it stated you can't flush a toilet after business is done.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:54
      +1

      Haha yeah the thing is, there was one time when she stood in front of the our garage to make complaints to my parents. She's also telling me that every unit around my unit is affected by "your noise in the morning" and that the others aren't just telling them like she does.
      I mean who is she? Is she like a representative of the unit party?

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:55

      Hahaha wow that's one bad neighbour! Maybe the guy below is having constipation and is jealous of the guy upstairs :P
      (Sorry that was a bad joke lol)

  • Orion on 03/03/2015 - 08:34

    If its not in the rental agreement then no its not illegal.

    • ESEMCE on 03/03/2015 - 09:14
      +2

      Even if there is something specified in the rental agreement, it's not illegal.. there's no law passed by government to say what time you can wake up (yet).

      • Orion on 03/03/2015 - 11:20

        I agree but the main issue here is the time of the noise.

        • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:56

          Yeah, but I mean, how loud can it be when you are eating cereal or making a soup?
          I would understand if it is like a exquisite cuisine.. but we can't afford that lol

      • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:56

        Exactly!

  • donga100 on 03/03/2015 - 10:39
    +6

    Since when do old people complain about waking up early? My grandfather would get up at 3:30am every day and listen to the wireless while waiting for the newspaper to be delivered around 4:30-5:00am.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:56

      That's so true! I remember my grandparents woke up at 4 am every day and I've always wondered how they do it!
      Maybe the lady upstairs is very young in their minds :P

  • NancyCat on 03/03/2015 - 11:31
    +1

    The issue has nothing to do with your parents working or not. What if your parents were making breakfast, then go for a morning walk in the park? The sound level would be the same, but is that illegal as well?

    No rental agreement would tell you when you can or cannot cook, or leave the house at certain time. Don't worry about that neighbour, he/she will always find something to complain about… toilet flushing sound, the bright light coming through under the front door, walking in the apartment…

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:57

      Yeah.. and I don't think it wouldn't be that loud as well! I mean unless there are secret amplifiers between my ceiling and their floors…?
      I would understand better if my parents were upstairs and she was downstairs.. but how are they hearing it?

  • anna10 on 03/03/2015 - 11:58

    Maybe you could lend the upstairs lady a (extra) carpet in her b/r to deaden noise. Some older people do have trouble sleeping and wake up really early, or are awake for hours during the night and only fall back asleep in the morning. The main problem is the cheap construction of the units.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:57

      I see! That's a good idea. I think so too, might have been better if the building had better construction materials..
      The way I look at it though, I think the lady upstairs just doesn't like my parents :(

  • sfk10 on 03/03/2015 - 12:00

    I live in a old Unit. Similar built 10 Units( 5 up and 5 down). I live upstairs and i get complaints time to time its cause of the concrete slab that connects my floor and and their roof is pretty thin. I don't hear much noise coming from my current downstairs neighbor. Its only when you get families who talk loud and it just echos through their house.

    There's no law about when u can or cant cook that i know of. But Just have some consideration. as its pretty noisy when people use Chopping cleavers.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:57

      EXACTLY!!
      I really don't understand how the person upstairs can hear it!!
      The only reason that they can hear it at the moment is because of the cheap construction or she has very sensitive ears that I'm envious about.
      I wish I could hear that well in the lecture.

  • jason101 on 03/03/2015 - 13:33
    +8

    I work in senior management for a Retirement Village Operator, I would suggest you ignore all of the advice above and seek advice from the operator of the Village (in the first instance the Village committee chair or the Village Manager if these individuals exist within your group). There is separate legislation governing retirement villages in all states and I do not believe the advice you have received in many of the above posts is accurate.

    • jason101 on 03/03/2015 - 15:26
      +7

      Thanks down voters, I forgot many of you may have 20+ years experience in the retirement housing sector and are possibly the GM's of other retirement village operations…. oh wait that's me….good luck sjg.

      • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:58
        +1

        Well you have up vote now :)
        Don't be too harsh on the OzBargainers, even if they are wrong, thanks to them I don't feel left out anymore.
        The reason for posting is
        - to see what people think of this situation and
        - what is right and wrong
        OzBargainers helped with the first part and you helped me with the second part :)

    • RockyRaccoon on 03/03/2015 - 15:35
      +1

      Unfortunately The OP has asked two separate questions and then links them to the same neighbour, the answers above you address the first question more than the second.

      Many forget that retirement villages can set their own requirements, and often age limits on who resides there are some of those. Also who can visit and for how long.

      It's a pity some have given a negative vote to your post, which is factual and good advice.

      If they disagree just make a post. Negative voting your advice, just hides it, and the OP needs to consider ALL advice to make an informed judgement on what they should do.

      e.g one Act (SA) says

      Retirement villages are regulated by the Retirement Villages Act 1987 (amended in 2006). The Act defines a ‘retirement village scheme’ as one that is established (predominantly), for ‘retired persons’ and ‘retired persons and their spouses’. A ‘retired person’ is defined as being aged over 55 years and no longer in full time employment.

      So if the parents are working full time then this could mean they aren't entitled to be there. Again checking with the management is a good idea.

      The cooking of food early is the trigger for the other residents complaint. But the complaint is they are not allowed there if they are working full time.

      • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:58

        I see! Thank you again for your informative advice!
        The question that arises from my mind however is that, wouldn't the management consider those before they accept my parents as tenants?
        Because they have given all the job details when they were applying for the tenancy,
        would it be because they have accidentally missed it when my parents are not entitled to be here?

        Thanks for the advice!

        • RockyRaccoon on 04/03/2015 - 06:31

          What you say makes sense. And also the tenant above does have all your parents details like how many days they work (part time vs full time.

          Its all very simple as sjg2002 says

          Speak to management. Also they can speak to the other tenant and put them straight if your parents comply with the rules.

          Likewise if they know you are there only while your parents are away, they understand the situation whereas if the other tenant "reports" you then you are on the defensive if there are any issues. Eg you maybe allowed to stay their for 2 weeks max. But management may have right under circumstances to allow you to stay longer.

          That's their job to help resolve issues.

          Good luck

        • RockyRaccoon on 04/03/2015 - 08:51

          @RockyRaccoon: Edit

          I meant to say as Jason101 says

          Its all very simple as sjg2002 says

      • tonka on 06/03/2015 - 17:25

        In some states there is the right to reasonable use of the home. I think it likely that a tribunal would find housesitting reasonable.

        I think as renters the first consideration would be the rental agreement as the landlord can have more rights in this regard than the Strata.

        For example, a strata cannot limit the amount of people living somewhere if it is reasonable where a landlord can under the rental agreement (QLD). QLD has overturned the ban of dogs in retirement villages before as unreasonable.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:57

      Oh I see! Thank you for your professional advice.
      I would look through the legislation and have a look!
      If what my parents are doing is wrong, I am happy to accept them.
      I just want to know whether we are wrong or not.

  • RandomNinja on 03/03/2015 - 13:51
    +1

    http://www.ocn.org.au/book/export/html/1200

    This might be useful reading, section 3.1 in particular and the interpretation of nuisance:
    'The legal definition of ‘nuisance’ is very different from the everyday meaning. For a noise to be construed as a nuisance’ it needs to be:
    frequent or persistent
    something a reasonable person with no particular sensitivity would be affected by.
    out of context or unanticipated (e.g. neighbours walking past your front door talking loudly may not count – even though it may be loud and intrusive)
    documented with substantial evidence of some sort'

    I feel that making breakfast at whatever time you choose is not out of context or unanticipated.

    • mashedpotato on 03/03/2015 - 22:58

      Wow that is a great website!
      Thank you for the info!

  • Euphemistic on 04/03/2015 - 08:23
    -1

    If your parents are going to move out soon they should consider ramping up the noise towards moving day. The lady complaining is probably just annoyed she can't sleep in like she used to due to the whole old-people-get-up-early-thing. Then again, she might rise early and be watching Kochie from 6am which is enough to drive anyone to bitterness.

    My mother in law is in a village, some of the stupid rules they have put in place seem to be derived from bored and bitter people. On the whole though, the community in there is very positive.

    • RockyRaccoon on 04/03/2015 - 08:47
      +1

      they should consider ramping up the noise towards moving day

      isn't that just perpetuating the "bitter people" game?

      Doing that isn't going to change them one iota

  • backpaqer on 04/03/2015 - 09:12

    Tell them to turn their hearing-aids down!!!
    I lived next door to an 80+yo (semi-detached with a party wall shared with her house) and my study was next to her bedroom and I loved to play Battlefield/COD etc with the sound up loud. I asked her if all the noise was possibly coming through and annoying her and she said she couldn't hear a thing. But when she died and her son moved in with his "new" wife…I realised exactly how thin those walls were! :O (and she was a screamer!)

    The strange things about oldies complaining about getting enough sleep is that they generally don't sleep that much. And they like to complain…more just to have some dialogue going on…so go and knock on next door at 7am and invite them over for some soup.

  • woz on 05/03/2015 - 09:41

    Your parents are 65+ and you're going to lectures. Doing the math…

    That's either stretching the elastic to its limits (40+ pregnancy and/or very mature aged student), or there's an interesting story (adoption, etc) in there somewhere. Or my math is a lot worse than I thought. ;-)

  • [Deactivated] on 05/03/2015 - 11:37

    This brings a question to mind. A house of 10 people. Person A complains that Person B makes too much noise.

    Should the response be, "A should move out if the noise is intolerable" or "B should move out because they are making too much noise" ?

    Would the number of housemates agreeing with either A or B make a difference? (Assuming there are).

    How would one go about to determine if the "noise" is unreasonable or not?

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