Need major dental work, what country should I go to?

[Deactivated] on 18/02/2015 - 16:16
Last edited 18/02/2015 - 16:45

I had an accident almost 2 years ago where I lost my three front (top) teeth. Currently I have a temporary denture, but only now received the payout from insurance, which was $18,000.
I've learnt that I can save a HEAP of money if I get it done in South-east asia, as it will cost me a massive amount if I were to get it done here. I was told that the damage around my gums is that bad, I would need skin grafts to hold the implants in place, and that the grafts could be taken at the same time my wisdom teeth are removed, as I will apparently have issues with them later. Then I'd need the actual implants done themselves. Altogether this is at least 2 surgeries, which will leave me in a ballpark of around $30,000 if done in Australia.

If I want the best care overseas, where should I head? I don't want to take risks, and I've heard that some of the dentists are even better overseas, but I also hear to be careful. Should I be looking at Thailand, Vietnam, Singapore or something else?

EDIT: Reading a bit more, it seems like Thailand is everyone's go-to. Does anyone have any recommendations on dentists?

Health & Beauty

Comments

  • Davros on 19/02/2015 - 14:48

    I have had great treatment in Vietnam on several occasions
    Nothing major, just clean drill and fill but that cost less than $5 aud to have done each time.

    Ask around on some expat forums for recomendations

  • syousef on 19/02/2015 - 15:12
    +7

    What a sad sad day when Australians have to go to "poorer" country to get medical treatment due to cost here :( :(

    • leiiv on 19/02/2015 - 16:51
      +3

      Not all Australians, just the poorer ones. And at the same time rich people from the "poorer" countries go to Australia to get medical treatment.

      • syousef on 20/02/2015 - 06:44
        +5

        My point is that we should be funding this for any Australian, rich or poor. Basic health care at least, not necessarily cosmetics.

      • Davros on 21/02/2015 - 17:31
        +2

        I am wealthy enough to pay for it here but you would have to be pretty stupid to do so when I can have it done OS and essentially get a free holiday with the savings.

  • peteru on 19/02/2015 - 15:40

    I've had excellent results in Prague in the Czech republic for a very reasonable price. What costs around $600 here in Australia, ended up costing $140 there and was done with much better equipment and technology. The work I had done was as a result of a less than perfect job done here in Australia, which disintegrated on the first day of my holiday - about 2 hours after getting off the plane! I ended up having emergency work done at a cosmetic dental clinic that apparently rates quite highly with the local actors and celebrities. It was so cheap I didn't even bother claiming it on travel insurance.

  • Talonparty on 19/02/2015 - 15:42
    +10

    My wife is from Hong Kong. She had a tooth removed by a local dentist while she was here because it had cracked. Cost us over $400. When we asked about an implant or some other fix we were told it would be something on the order of $7000-8000.

    She waited until she visited HK because it would only be around $3000 and she could get it done there while she was on holiday. In the initial stages the dentist had to take an x-ray of her jaw. He found an entire root of the tooth just left in there. The dentist genuinely asked her if the person who performed the extraction was a qualified dentist. He was shocked that someone could miss such a large piece.

    So because of that she had to get the root removed and wait for it to heal before she could get the implant, which meant she couldn't get it during her holiday. And she had to spend about another $400 for a surgeon to go digging about in her mouth.

    Anyway, the point of the story is that just because a dentist is Australian it doesn't automatically mean that they are good or even competent apparently. And just because a dentist is Thai doesn't mean that they won't be good.

  • battler on 19/02/2015 - 15:58

    quite a bit of discussion previously, and some recommended repairers:

    https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/156648

  • QuickToThePointless on 19/02/2015 - 16:30

    Make sure you do your homework and double check so you go to the right sort of surgeon in asia. Would be bad if you went in for dental work and came out needing a bra!

  • Perthian on 19/02/2015 - 16:36
    +12

    There will be good and bad practitioners all over the globe, no matter which country you go to. Of course there is strict regulation of such professions in some countries like here in Australia while others may have doctors and dentists who would not be penalized as heavily if they were to put their commercial interests before the health and well being of the patients.

    Dental work (especially the kind you need) is not a one-off procedure like getting a tattoo or new haircut. It needs ongoing care, regular checkup and immediate attention when something goes wrong. Most of the time you will not be able to notice any problem in the early stages of breakdown, but only have pain and symptoms when things are beyond simple repair. Often, only the treating dentist will be able to detect if things have started to fail.

    So you better be prepared to have regular visits to the same dentist who did the work, as other dentists will simply put their hands up and will not be willing to take up any repair of work they did not do. They run a huge risk of patients saying "I did not have a problem when my Thai dentist treated me. I came to you for a simple repair and now YOU have broken my implant/bridge. I will go to the ADA/ACCC/Bikies if you don't replace all the $30000 treatment". It's just not worth their time.

    Go to at least a couple of specialists to listen to what they say. Especially listen to possible complications and any estimate on how long the treatments can last and what backup plan they have if things don't go according to plan. Then go overseas for a short holiday to do the same with a few overseas dentists. Regroup, and analyze how you felt about each dentist and the information they gave you. Dr.Google is not always correct and neither is Dr.Ozbargain. People go through tough 7years of advanced education to become doctors and dentists.

    Good luck. And hope you don't end up in a situation where you may have to spend an additional $30 to fix a $5 haircut ; )

    And if you have received any useful help through this thread, you can always return the favor by keeping this thread updated with your result. That's how these threads will be useful for anyone else in future.

    • mskeggs on 19/02/2015 - 18:45
      +7

      I reckon this is one of the best responses here.

    • Davros on 19/02/2015 - 23:57

      "And hope you don't end up in a situation where you may have to spend an additional $30 to fix a $5 haircut"
      Come on, we are in Australia
      It'd take $100 to fix and even then it probably wouldnt be done right.

  • drprox on 19/02/2015 - 16:38
    +1

    Malaysia.

  • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2015 - 17:15
    +1

    Just go to a dental college in Australia, prices are dirt cheap because you're getting worked on by students.

  • HenryGalilei on 19/02/2015 - 17:30
    +2

    I spent $10 for removing 2 teeth in Vung Tau-Vietnam. Got everything done in 1 day.

  • walvisch on 19/02/2015 - 17:35
    +2

    My wife had a dental emergency in Beijing, due to a serious misdiagnosis of her Australian dentist. Had to have one of her front teeth removed and ended up with a bridge of four at the front. Impressed with the work and price I ended up getting all my teeth fixed with the same dentist is Beijing, who is Vietnamese but American trained (I'd be wary of eastern european trained dentists). Had 3 root canals redone and stabilised these molars, 13 crowns and two veneers and all white fillings replaced and 2 course professional whitenings for less than 16k Including all x-rays and enough anaesthetic to knock out a small village. My local dentist admitted that in OZ it would cost more then 40k to do all the work done. This was in 2009 and my teeth and crowns are still in very good condition, although I'm going back in may to get a check up and my teeth whitened. Private healthcare in Beijing is far superior to Australian care. PS. If you want details let me know

  • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2015 - 17:39
    +6

    Not sure if someone mentioned this already:

    • Get the surgical work done here - anything involving long recovery time, anesthesia, etc. Medicare/Private Health Insurance might even cover some of the surgical stuff. The minimum standard for surgical procedures in Australia is likely to be better here.
    • Get the cosmetic work done overseas - stuff not covered by insurance. Places in India and Thailand have a HUGE industry in cosmetic dentistry.
    • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2015 - 22:26

      That was what I was thinking, honestly.

    • hayne on 20/02/2015 - 11:40

      probably the most sensible response I've read

  • thatonethere on 19/02/2015 - 18:53
    +1

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2015-02-19/wa-coroner-refers-dent…

    I think you take your chances everywhere

    • hayne on 20/02/2015 - 11:44
      +1

      Yes, and you run the risk of getting murdered in Australia, as you do in South Africa. It just happens that one place has a higher per capita murder rate than the other.

      Calling out individual instances of poor treatment doesn't add a huge amount of insight to whether it's a better idea to have it here vs. overseas.

  • iamthatguy on 19/02/2015 - 19:01

    Ok I am just going to hand in my 2cents as I just came back two days ago from India and got few fillings done, a root canal and a crown on top of it. Costed me around $100 AUD and around 3 visits to the dentist two were consecutive days and the third one was after 10 days because you need to wait for sometime before you get a crown on a tooth with root canal. Anyways moving on, let me guarantee you this….there are some highly educated and experienced doctors in India not because my mum is one but because I have been to doctors and dentists here in Aus as well as in India(not saying the doctors here are not good or anything) and i can just tell from experience.
    Also India is huge… i cannot say about any other states but i know Chandigarh in Punjab has some good doctors. Google PGIMER you will get a feel (that's where my mum works btw).
    The dentist i got the work done from was a family friend and is quite famous for his work. People talk about all sorts of things that hygiene is bad etc etc but trust me I wouldn't have got anything done if it wasn't safe. My mum is getting four tooth implants as well and its costing her around $2000 AUD, but it is taking her some time the reason being they put in screws and all sort of stuff in order for the implants to sit on them.

    • ncmx5 on 19/02/2015 - 20:32

      And there's adequate healing for a root canal after the first 2 visits?

      • iamthatguy on 20/02/2015 - 09:33

        Root canal was done in the first two visits and after that i had to wait for 10 days for the crown. I am not a dentist but maybe you are….so tell us how long should we wait for the crown after the rootcanal?

        • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2015 - 18:24
          +1

          6 months. That's the typical time required for post operative complications to manifest. 3 months is a fairly acceptable minimum, even then, that's playing it risky.

          Takes a full 5 days for the calcium hydroxide to work between your root canal treatments. That's probably the minimum, but I doubt they even used the medicament, but lets assume they did.

          Did they have a rubber sheet around the tooth to isolate it from saliva? If they didn't the root canal is worthless for all that is mentioned.

    • SlickMick on 25/02/2015 - 00:35

      $100!!?? How much does it cost to fly to India? If you had reason to go anyway, have the crown removed, fix the problem, and new crown. Still way cheaper than here.

      Personally, I reckon root canals are a rort. Maybe my fault coz I didn't get the crown done in time, but the tooth eventually had complications and they wanted to spend even more money on it. My new solution is removal. Far cheaper, far more effective, and in my experience, it's teeth that aren't noticed that have the problem anyway.

      • ncmx5 on 16/03/2015 - 12:14

        This simplistic view can be adapted for the rest of the body - Infected toe nail, just cut off the toe, won't be noticed anyway.. there's 9 others.

  • kaz09 on 19/02/2015 - 20:19

    my aunty's dentist is in HK, she goes back every year. Not sure if helpful or not, just a suggestion

  • JonoE on 19/02/2015 - 20:21

    Niboptions offer all this both dental and surgery overseas. Give them a call all backed by nib.com.au

  • [Deactivated] on 19/02/2015 - 20:33

    Go DIY. What could go wrong?

    • mcsmark on 20/02/2015 - 10:56

      DIY is a bit too expensive in Australia, can u suggest a cheaper country to DIY ? ;)

  • ncmx5 on 19/02/2015 - 20:42
    +1

    Nothing wrong with overseas treatment, but when it does go wrong, just be careful. It's not just about the money, but more of the long term implications. i.e. catch hepatitis - how would that affect you? your wife/family? Would they want to go near you? share foods? kiss/affection? How would you feel around them if you knew that you had it (or didnt know but ultimately gave it to them)?

    If we can catch Hep A from frozen berries, just consider what you can catch if you are dealing with blood/saliva. I would trust the overseas dentists, they would be well trained. But it's the auxillary staff - nurses/assistants that they would employee for minimum wage i.e $3/hour or something. Would they routinely blood test them etc? Nurses here I think are TAFE trained and i think blood screened (Don't think you can work if you're infected). Just something to think about.

    • exp1 on 19/02/2015 - 21:50
      +1

      infection control forms a huge part of the clinical assessments for australian dental students at dental unis. but even at private clinics this procedure is not always strictly complied with. can you imagine what would happen in less regulated countries?

      • hayne on 20/02/2015 - 11:46
        +1

        As someone who has seen clinical standards across a range of dental clinics in Australia, I would agree with you 100% on all of your points

  • tenshi13 on 19/02/2015 - 20:57
    +1

    IMHO
    Singapore has quite advanced medical practices but their prices might be of equivalent to here
    Malaysia would potentially be less than half the price, but only go with the private ones and try to look them up for reviews on the internet

    Went to Malaysia for checkups and cleaning a year ago, what quite impressed with the private clinics there

  • bbourizk on 19/02/2015 - 21:18

    My mother recently came back from getting some work done in Lebanon. She usually goes back every 2-3 years. She needed implants to 3-4 front teeth. Cost her just over 5kUSD. Here it was going to be well over 20k for what she needed done.

    In her case it was easy as she was in no rush and has an apartment there she stayed at.

  • movieman on 19/02/2015 - 21:31
    +1

    Vietnam.

    Definitely Vietnam. Great price, excellent care, and your case seems straight forward.

  • exp1 on 19/02/2015 - 21:45

    Australia has the one of the best standards for dentists in the word and the dental clinics are subject to stringent health regulations, especially in regards to sterilizing equipment. Even some clinics in Australia skimp out on important processes in sterilisation - e.g not cleaning equipment between family members etc. If clinics here take shortcuts, imagine what can happen in more unregulated environments where the clinics are not obligated to follow such procedures.

    I would not take the risk if I were you. I have had some fillings done overseas in the past which subsequently required root canal treatment when it got infected. Just be extremely careful and weight up your risks/benefits before you make your decision.

  • Serapis on 19/02/2015 - 23:31
    +1

    Thailand definitely the go to place, read more on tripadvisor:

    http://www.tripadvisor.com.au/ShowTopic-g293919-i9439-k51457…

    Most would be similar treatment to what you would get here at a fraction of the cost and can speak English. Just look around for one with good rep.

  • etherealfal on 20/02/2015 - 00:00
    +4

    I'm a dentist so i'll chime in here a bit.

    I don't care where you go or who you see because AFAIK, you don't see me.

    My general advise for surgical work (yes, dentistry is surgery) is that whatever you get done overseas, try not to bring it back into the country.

    The general consensus in the dental world is that EVERYTHING fails.

    Things that don't fail too early require planning.

    Things that generally fail quicker aren't too well planned.

    If you want to get your wisdom teeth extracted, great, get that done.

    Bringing something back into the country that has an attached value of 30k equivalent AUD? Be prepared to pay that or more if it fails.

    I understand there are shit dentists in AU and there are shit dentists in SEA. There are good ones in both regions.

    The argument for Australian trained or internationally trained dentists in SEA being a reason they are good is a flawed reasoning.

    Do you know about their health regulations? What's going on behind the scenes? You see the glamour, asian countries are KNOWN for their glamour.

    I digress. I don't know where you are going and I hope you all the best. My world of advise is, don't go and get it done and bring back into a country something you can't judge yourself. Most people can't judge their dental work at all.

    I'm going to finish with an anecdote. Worst form of evidence, I know.

    I saw a lady once, mid 50s. She had all her teeth replaced in Thailand (because friends had good reports) with fake teeth supported on several implants in the top and bottom jaw. 3 years on, she came in with throat swelling and facial swelling. She went into surgery that afternoon to have it ALL removed (no teeth). She now requires 60k AUD to fix that work up.

    Best of luck.

    • iridiumstem on 20/02/2015 - 01:07
      +1

      As much as I dislike Australian medical system, I think you have a point. No offence to the doctors, btw, I think it's purely because there are not enough doctors and population/population density is too small to support any large hosipitals, which makes the system really inefficient and inaccessible. There are some doctors who are rubbish, i.e. my girlfriend's GP who ignored signs of infection even though she pointed it out and she had to go to emergency room at 9PM, but most doctors I've seen were at least nice and seem to know what they were talking about.

      I've heard from people that implants are actually not built to last more than 10 years, I think. It might be wrong, I am just talking from my memories of documentaries and talks I had with my relative who's a dentist. So if you have to get it changed and have to constantly check, I think it might be better to count that in, in the calculations.

      I am slightly digressing but I've seen enough cases with orthodontic treatment where the kid who's studying in Australia have to go back to Korea because the braces broke and the material that we use are different what Australia uses. Also, I've seen a case with my subordinate in my air base where he couldn't get the dentist at the air base to treat him on the basis that the treatment he got from outside the military might get ruined if other dentists try to do something else. So I assume that similar case with implants might happen.

      Though that being said, if the OP knows that he might have to go back and forth, given that the dentist that he visits is a reliable one, I don't think it's a bad idea to consider them as an option.

      • dsafew on 20/02/2015 - 12:34

        The very first dental implant placed in the world was by Professor Brenemark in Sweden. It lasted 47 years, as long as the life of the patient. This is before any technology "improvements" and medical advances in the last 20+ years in implantaology.

        • iridiumstem on 20/02/2015 - 18:33

          I blame my fuzzy memory, though, this means I've learnt something today. :D

        • etherealfal on 20/02/2015 - 18:49

          Even now, literature in dentistry is a difficult one to understand.

          Consider the idea of binary results; successful and unsuccessful.

          This is what a patient considers successful: doesn't hurt, looks good, still in there

          This is what a PARTICULAR dentist considers successful: no bleeding when touching the gums, not mobile, isn't symptomatic, no pus

          You can see, our definitions don't even match up.

          Throw into the mix the idea that each literature paper can have a different MEASURE of success between dentists, it makes the literature very difficult to sieve through.

          My point is, yes it may have been there 47 years. Was it successful according to modern day standards?

          I would be hesitant to ever say an implant would last a life time. If it did and it were true, would it not make sense to just do an implant every time you had a hole?

          AznMitch isn't too far off. Implants have a general life span of 10-15 years.

    • jzx100 on 20/02/2015 - 11:36

      You're all sales reps!

      I remember going to a dentist 5 years ago, he said my teeth were great but could do with some 'cleaning / whitening' for $120. I refused and that figure kept going down $100, $95 and so on if I did it then and there. Lost all respect.

      • etherealfal on 20/02/2015 - 18:50

        You are a patient, you sound like you are assuming something, therefore all patients are presumptuous!

        See what I did there?

        • jzx100 on 21/02/2015 - 11:29

          Yeah, trying to protect your income stream!

    • frostman on 23/02/2015 - 10:58
      -1

      I'm a dentist so i'll chime in here a bit.

      WTF is a dentist doing on OzBargain? Don't you guys earn like 180K+?

      • etherealfal on 24/02/2015 - 08:53

        Most wealthy people aren't wealthy because they live lavishly. A saving is a saving and a dollar is a dollar. There's nothing relative about the absolutes.

        • frostman on 24/02/2015 - 09:22
          -1

          Your comment made no sense.

          This is similar to what i read: Don't speak of that which is unspoken for the unspoken is not reserved to that which you don't speak

        • etherealfal on 24/02/2015 - 11:03

          @frostman: I'll put it simply. A saving is a saving doesn't matter how much you earn. If you don't try and save, you'll find that you actually don't have that much money.

        • frostman on 24/02/2015 - 11:56
          -2

          @etherealfal: That's a general rule, which is true.

          But for the <5% considered very high earners (+180K) like Dentists, Drs, etc their saving is such that considering between 2 cars or 2 houses, etc with significant savings/differences, not going through ozbargain looking for when Tuna is $1, etc

        • etherealfal on 25/02/2015 - 20:00

          @frostman: I must be really attracted to replying to trolls. Ozbargain often has great deals. Cheap SD cards (for the mercedes). Cheap games (so I can abuse the i7). Awesome CC card award points (so I can fly first class next time).

          Kappa.

    • frostman on 23/02/2015 - 10:59

      ?

  • dji1111111 on 20/02/2015 - 00:05
    +1

    Go to South Korea. They have a very good healthcare system.
    Doesn't overcharge crazy amount like Australian dentists.
    Make sure you know which ones are recommended. That helps.

    • iridiumstem on 20/02/2015 - 00:52
      +1

      I'd say you need to be careful in Korea in terms of implants. It has became some sort of fad, where it's profitable enough for doctors to specialise for implants. The problem is, I think there are doctors who overcharges by heaps and use low quality implants. What I suggest is, do your research beforehand. Though that being said, I think there are a lot of medical tourist centers getting built in Korea, so they might be something to look at.

      That being said, I love Korean medical system. I had to get my tooth checked up and had to get my skin condition checked. Took me 1 hr 30 mins to get x-rayed, scaling and root planing, get a dermatologist to give me some prescription for my skin condition and get the prescription pills and ointment for 1 months. It costed me 25 bucks total.

  • StonedWizard on 20/02/2015 - 01:08
    +1

    OP do you have privet health insurance ?
    Could get a discount going to a preferred Dentist.

    My uni head of Plastic surgery has a practise on campus (available to anyone) I save $600 by going to a plastic surgeon on my Uni campus over going to his fancy practise in the CBD, he's also one of the top surgeons in NSW. So perhaps see if theres a dentist that teach at any uni's near you.

    Personally i'd spend the extra 12k whilst its not a small amount at least if you run any risks you're covered for on going checkups and complications (if they arise).

  • melindaireneholmes on 20/02/2015 - 02:44

    I got my dental work done in sea smile in Phuket Thailand. I am very happy with it and have had blood tests since where I have been screened for infectious diseases -nothing. The prices where about a third of oz prices-2013. I took my own panadol/nurofen and antibiotics.

  • dial999 on 20/02/2015 - 09:46
    +1

    Due to health problems, I have had a huge amount of dental work done over the years, all in Australia. Yes, implants are very expensive and no, I strongly suggest you do NOT go overseas. Many fail after time, therefore people will comment that they are terrific…until. Platinum should be used, and that is expensive the world over, so you will get stainless steel instead for the cheap ones. They do insert this into your bone, and I had to wait months for it to knit, so it is not a procedure to undertake lightly.

    I would suggest that if you are able to, that you continue with your denture. Is it one of the newer types, like valplast? I love mine, absolutely love it. Well done, they are terrific. At a later date you might reconsider implants, once the verdict on overseas implants is out.

  • jzx100 on 20/02/2015 - 11:27
    +2

    England! Apparently no one uses dentists there so there no waiting time lol

    • zappa on 25/02/2015 - 19:25

      simpsons flashback - the big book of english smiles :)

  • altomic on 20/02/2015 - 11:59

    I had a heap of dental work done in Japan.
    Mrs Altomic had some minor cosmetic surgery (large scar cleanup) done in South Korea.

    Both were great.

  • edgar28 on 20/02/2015 - 12:18

    Singapore cheaper than Japan, more than Thailand

    Japan > Singapore > Thailand

    Malaysia cheaper than Singapore (only good if you know someone good then it's on par with singapore, else i would think similar to Thailand)

    • Serapis on 21/02/2015 - 14:53

      Got dental work done in Hong Kong when I was there, they did excellent work.

      Tickets getting there are pricey tho, would get dental work done there again, but not travel there specifically for dental work

  • sharpaust on 20/02/2015 - 13:16

    Korea is not bad try there

  • styrenic on 20/02/2015 - 14:38

    Choice has an article about this,

    http://www.choice.com.au/reviews-and-tests/food-and-health/g…

  • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2015 - 15:33
    +1

    2 years ago we were on holidays with extended family in Thailand. My sister in law broke her tooth, went to local dentist. I went with her. Surgery looked modern outside, we registered and sat and waited. To the horror of my life, through glass window I saw the dentist took out a tooth on patient next door , didn't change his gloves, just washed the blood out under the tap, then moved to next patient.Then I walked to the toilet next to their cleaning room. They were boiling the instruments in a pot on a stove. No steriliser.We just walked out.

  • samdong on 20/02/2015 - 15:44

    India..

    I born and brought up there so I know how good the good doctors and dentists are there..

    last year I done four implants which cost me 25000INR(500 A$) per implant and 5000INR (100$) per cap + laser teeth whitening + OPG xray I Paid total 150000 INR (3000 AUD).

    As a rule of thumb dental treatment can be 5 times cheaper in india.

    I have a family there so my flight , time off etc. is justifiable.

    If u need contact detail of dentist pm me…I will forward it to u.

    Good Luck

  • p1 ama on 20/02/2015 - 16:37
    +2

    A little bit late to the party here, but I think what a lot of people have alluded to relate more to the quality of the dentists in Australia vs. in other countries. There's no doubt that medical professionals in Australia are great - they're very well trained, we have very stringent laws about the qualifications required and the level of training required to practice. I believe that in many SE countries, medical professionals are also very well trained, but whether the regulation and standards of practice are up to scratch - I'm not sure.

    However, you have to remember that somewhere something has got to give in all of this. When you can save $12,000 in costs, that $12,000 has to come from somewhere. Fair enough, the operating costs are probably much cheaper overseas, but whether the materials and products used are the level of care you get are equal to what you can find here in Australia, I'm not sure. That's something to keep in mind as well, especially if you're getting implants and dentures.

    On top of all that, as with any medical procedure, there is a real risk of things going wrong. When things are right, there's no problem, but when things go wrong, are you able to fly back out to wherever you got the procedure done? Will you be given any form of compensation if you need to have further work done in the future…etc.? All of those are questions you will need to ask yourself and are real issues which are faced by the so-called "medical tourism" industry.

  • [Deactivated] on 20/02/2015 - 18:15

    I have had major dental work done in au as well as eastern europe and western europe.

    Long story short: for me it is the DENTIST doing the work rather than the fancy newest equipment they work with, or the actual building ther are housed in.

    I go to a local Croatian dentist (btw I am not croatian) who works with the same 20-yr old equipment since I have known him. I have some very invasive surgical work done and never, I repeat NEVER, had even an inkling of an infection or conplication. He is not cheap, but not over the top.

    In eastern europe (incl Poland mentioned above), I found the older dentists trained under the previous communist governments were much more expert at what they do.

    So I can give the following advice: CHECK OUT REVIEWS/OPINIONS ABOUT THE ACTUAL DENTIST RATHER THAN THE CLINIC / CITY / COUNTRY.

    Just my 2c worth.

  • congo on 20/02/2015 - 20:18

    I had a similar problem losing a front tooth and a back tooth.
    I saw a specialist who charged $180 per visit. The payment plan was $6.5K per tooth.
    I consider going to Thailand, but ended up going to a general dentist in Oz because
    - He charged $4K per tooth
    - I can claim $1K back per year
    - I did the job over 2 years getting $2K back
    - no travel and accommodation costs.

  • Sammy901 on 20/02/2015 - 20:18
    +4

    As a dentist who does a fair bit of implant work I would recommend getting a second opinion on cost. 30k seems a little excessive for 3 teeth. The only procedure I could foresee costing anywhere near that much would involve a bone graft from an extra oral site. If that is what has been planned for your case then the entire process can take upto one year in total and requires multiple appointments spread out. The logistics would be difficult if your having it done outside of the country.

    In regards to the apparently 'good' work that most people claim to get from SE Asia and India, based on what I have seen over the past 10 years, about 70-80% is of an unacceptable standard. This compares to local work which is probably in the 20-30% range. Most non dentists wouldn't be able to judge good vs bad work and often you won't pick up issues unless xrays are taken.

    I think your 18k should cover what you need to get done locally.

    • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2015 - 18:55
      +1

      Can you explain the cost in Australia? Is it just market rates, or are there real costs involved? I noticed the local dentist in Malvern drives a brand new Range Rover Vogue, seemed like he must have performed a lot of dental implants. Even the local plastic surgeon couldn't spring for the Vogue.

      • p1 ama on 22/02/2015 - 19:05

        Can you explain the cost in Australia? Is it just market rates, or are there real costs involved?

        Everything is market rates, as with any unregulated goods.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2015 - 19:36
          +1

          What I mean by this is; are the dentists dictating their own $900k salary or does a $20k implant involve $15k worth of porcelan teeth?

        • p1 ama on 22/02/2015 - 20:13

          @thorton82: Cost of materials is irrelevant to price, which is always set by supply and demand. If the equilibrium price is less than the cost, then that good will simply not be offered anymore because you can't make profit from it.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/02/2015 - 21:09

          @paulsterio: Yeah, thanks for the lesson in the complex theory of supply and demand.

        • p1 ama on 23/02/2015 - 09:41

          @thorton82: In case you couldn't read between the lines, both contribute - dentists don't offer them at lower prices because of a combination of cost of materials and because people are willing to pay that price.

        • iridiumstem on 23/02/2015 - 10:14

          When economists talk about market equilibrium, they refer to perfect competition market, which dentistry do not fall onto. In this case, I think we are referring to cartel-like (not a cartel per se, but the price doesn't go down on the basis of expectations that others will not reduce the price below certain point) oligopoly (I think this part is arguable depending on what level you look it from, but I will let it fly since it doesn't change the conclusion much.). The producers of the service controls the price, the price is set at a rate at the dentists have chosen. The problem with this market is that producers of the service gets the surplus and the consumer is left with less product at higher price (Compared to perfect competition).

          In this market, cost will be a factor, but there's nothing to regulate the prices going down to cost-price because there's not enough supply (remember, producers determine what price goes with how much they produce). Also collusion of firms (in this case, it's from expectations of others not reducing their price) will ensure higher prices for all.

          So in this case, staying at market equilibrium in this market will cause people to receive less products at higher price, which can be alright in certain cases, but since it's a necessity, government should intervene and subdise. (Though this is a normative conclusion, therefore whether this is the case depends on what school you follow. I personally believe that extreme neoclassicist approach wouldn't work on the basis of high deterrents to entrance and with all the regulations in place.)

        • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2015 - 18:03

          I'll be happy to explain the cost of an implant

          Firstly, it's not a one man operation; it takes three people to operate the surgery, albeit only one has to be the clinician.
          - The little titanium "screw" costs ~1k in Australia. The cheaper ones would be at least ~$400.
          - The cost study models which are invaluable in planning. Raw materials alone would cost about $30, but there is actually a fair amount of machinery that goes into making those models.
          - Sterilization. It is not cheap to say the least. In Australia, you have to run a spore test annually, and a D&B daily. And you have to track serial numbers for implants
          - Custom made precision guides. I believe about 50% of surgeons use them.
          - Scrubbing up, draping and gowning. Takes about a full 15 minutes to do.
          - the drapes and gowns are usually disposable and cost upwards of $80 per use.
          - Analysis of models, CBCT scans, and liasing with the prosthodontist who does the crown.
          - professional indemnity
          - about half a dozen appointments including reviews
          - takes 3 people about 3 hours after you take into account set up, clean up, records, etc.
          - the thready thingy that you thing is fairly irrelevant in terms of cost. Well, it is 10 bucks a pop. That's probably the cheapest part.
          - training of the dentist doing the implants, give or take 7 years since high school MINIMUM.
          - i can keep going but I think there is a word limit

          Not saying healthcare professionals are not highly paid. I think people need to re-examine just how much they think they are making.

        • iridiumstem on 23/02/2015 - 19:59

          @tshow: I will elaborate on what I was saying.

          First of all, monopoly and oligopoly are simply a type of market that exists because of barriers to entrance (i.e. qualification), economies of scale and availability of resources. So it doesn't have negative connotations to it in academical sense, it's just different type of market that exists because of the nature of the goods and services.

          When we talk about cost of services in Economics, we concern everything you've said. Economics terms sometimes sound just straight forward that people assume things. Cost in this sense includes everything including, opportunity cost (forgone best options), skills and investments involved, etc etc. We just put monetary values to everything because we are bastards it's the easiest way to compare things.

        • Sammy901 on 23/02/2015 - 21:36

          @thorton82:

          Generally 20k worth of implant treatment has about 3-7k worth of material cost depending on what system you use.

          Employee dentists in our practice take home between 150k-750k before tax so I'm not surprised some drive expensive cars.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2015 - 22:16

          @Sammy901: $13k seems like an awful lot to cover expenses for the dentist. The profit margin must be enormous.

          $750k for a dentist is crazy money, and goes to show just why implants are so extortionate. That is more than a lot specialist doctors make, and those guys are saving people's lives, not fixing their teeth. (No offence). I would have thought that $250k would be a more reasonable high end wage for a dentist, and maybe $400k for an orthodontist. Im guessing if dentists were more reasonable with their wage demands, implants might be a whole lot cheaper. I doubt there is anywhere else in the world where dentists could bring in $750k a year.

        • Sammy901 on 23/02/2015 - 23:48

          @thorton82: Implants are one of the more profitable procedures, generally the profit isn't as high for most other work.

          However, when you place 20k worth of work in a patients mouth you basically have to own that work for the next 20 years. When patients spend that sort of money they usually unrealistically expect it to last forever regardless of any other factors. Implants are expensive because a lot can go wrong and when it does the decent thing to do is to fix it for free which often needs more time, effort and materials than the original procedure.

          Regarding pay, most dentists in the private sector don't make more than 200-300k a year so you have to be doing a lot of crown/bridge/implants/root canal to hit over half a mil.

          Orthodontists often make 1mil+ if they are busy

          To put things into perspective Medical surgeons can make upto 2-3mil if they are in the right specially and are busy.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/02/2015 - 23:55

          @Sammy901:

          Yeah, only top orthopaedic surgeons make that kind of coin, and they work 60 hours a week. Other specialists; plastic surgeons, gynos, gastros, dermos, ENT, don't make anything like that kind of money, and they are amongst the highest paid in the world. It does make you think that with the extremely high pricing of dental procedures here, and the massively inflated wages of dentists, maybe people in the field are asking too much.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 08:35

          @thorton82: Where are you getting your information on average earnings? Sounds like you're just coming up with ridiculous numbers in your head.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 08:46

          @tshow: work in the field.

        • iridiumstem on 24/02/2015 - 11:50

          @Sammy901: To you and possibly to other dentists/orthodontists who might be looking at this post, I have a question.

          How much would teeth straightening cost given that you use clear braces, consultations and check up every 6 weeks including changing the wire, the silicon band things, scaling etc and finishes within 1 year time period? Also given that the required straightening is a simple one as well. The patient doesn't have any problems other than some of the roots being slightly shorter than average person and the patient doesn't need any of the teeth pulled out for this procedure.

          I am just curious. I am about 99.99% certain that I didn't get screwed over, but I want to check again.

          If it is hard to give precise answers, would it be less than $10,000 or would it go way over $10,000?

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 12:52

          @thorton82:
          Well, I think whichever place you're working has clearly expensive employees. Does not represent the national average at all, nowhere close.

          My sources are human resources within the ADA, RACDS, and AMA.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 12:54

          @AznMitch:
          If your description is correct, sounds like a $5-7k job. It is unlikely to be a 1 year banding. Most banding go for 24 months because it doesn't matter if it is a large degree of movement or a small one, to get the teeth to even start moving takes a whole lot of time.

          Trying to rush the job will cause the tooth to kill/damage itself.

        • iridiumstem on 24/02/2015 - 12:58

          @tshow: :P So I didn't get screwed over. Also, my case was fairly simple one where all they needed to fix was 3~4 teeth which was slightly misaligned . Also, I sorta recall that it was longer than one year, it lasted me almost entire conscription so it might've been 18 month ish, not sure. Though, I am almost certain that they wouldn't have done anything crazy, since my uncle was their partner.

          I am just glad to know that I didn't get screwed over. In fact, I think I got a decent deal.
          Thank you for the reply btw. :)

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 13:57

          @tshow: I'm sorry, I think you have me confused with someone else, I haven't mentioned any figures

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 14:53

          @thorton82:
          You drew an estimate salary of specialist in relation to orthopedic surgeons. I can tell you that your statement that orthopedic surgeons earn more than plastics and dermos isn't accurate. Unless you are talking about individual cases.

        • [Deactivated] on 24/02/2015 - 18:01

          @tshow: I am talking private practice, as the Dentist above is. Sammy901 was accurate in his earning estimates for Ortho surgeons, and I can guarantee you that short of Dermo's and Plastic Surgeons who due exclusively cosmetic work, you aren't going to find many on anywhere near that kind of money.

  • milobob on 20/02/2015 - 22:03
    +3

    Good luck if you go overseas! Have a few friends who have had "great work with great results" but only to have major problems a few years down the track (and had costed them more in the end to be fixed)! Good luck trying to chase up that overseas dentist to explain the problems/fix them.

  • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2015 - 00:37
    +2

    i'll get negged but idc…

    What the dentists and friends of dentists posting here dont tell you is:

    THERE IS ABSOLUTELY NO REQUIREMENT OF WARRANTY ON WORK DONE IN AUS, sure you can find the dentist that did the work, but in most cases he/she will NOT fix it for free. You will have to pay her/him or someone else to fix it.

    Sure sounds like a flaw in consumer law which applies to a $20 toaster but not to $10,000 worth of dental work!

    • ncmx5 on 21/02/2015 - 01:23

      A products i.e. toaster is designed for a specific purpose. Heating bread to make toast. Its only limited to what it can do. Same with a TV, a Car or any object.

      A mouth - there are plethora of things that can happen - all subjective to the individual. - Biting, eating, chewing, speaking are the primary forms - then there is parafunction - clenching, grinding which stresses the teeth or implants etc. Then there's the individual's oral hygiene - do they brush 2x a day, floss, mouthrinse, everyday? Do they visit the dentist 2x a year for a check up and clean? What foods do they eat? Lollies? nuts? These can be things that break your OWN teeth, let alone a man made material.

      You can't compare a toaster to dental work. Simple minded thinking.

      • [Deactivated] on 21/02/2015 - 01:29
        +1

        Thanks for completing my comment for me. I was going to list those things as some EXCUSES I have heard dentists say when trying to dodge responsibility for poor workmanship. Honestly, thank you :-)

        • rowenaduncan on 21/02/2015 - 11:45
          +1

          I had a painful front tooth. Indicated to the dentist which one hurt. Was told nothing was wrong with it, and fixed the one next to it instead. Next day, more pain, another visit, same tooth indicated, Xrays taken. Told still nothing wrong with that tooth. Fixed something else again. After a long weekend in enough pain that I considered pulling the tooth out myself in the garage, I went back again Monday morning. Because I was still determined it was that tooth, he drilled into it. Turns out it must have been cracked. It was bad enough that it was infected. Was told it should have showed up on the xrays but it didn't. Worst thing. Massive amounts of unnecessary pain for 5 days. No apology. No refund for the work I didn't require. I was unemployed at the time and had to borrow at high interest to pay. Not happy Jan! So don't tell me all dentists are fair.

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