Very Unhappy Experience With a NAB Staff. Banks to Destroy Our Items, Legal?

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National Australia Bank Group (NAB)

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        Maxxjet on 16/02/2015 - 13:18

        +4

        don't make a judgement then when you don't have the experience, like many point out above, each bank has its own policy and when it comes to consumer protection/consumer rights, you are going to beg not to be a customer of any mainland Chinese banks.

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        walvisch on 19/02/2015 - 11:28

        Davros , but do have you have an account with a regional chinese bank and your card taken by an atm whilst overseas? If not, why do you feel your experience is relevant to op's situation and qualifies you to dismiss his experience?

        I have had my overseas atm card returned to me, by bank staff after verification. My wife has lost hers because the bank couldn't get involved as the atm was managed by a security company.

        PS. UnionPay (if that is op's card company involved) sucks when it comes to service and usability in many countries.

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      geoffellis on 18/02/2015 - 01:59

      -1

      However it was inserted into NAB's property… and it potentially caused damage to the machine or inconvenience to other customers.

      Would this conversation still be taking place if it was a library card that was jammed in? a business card? I remember one time a business card stuck to the back of my debit card, and i didnt notice. until the ATM screen shot up with error and refused to give me my card back. now the bank manager in my case did just walk over, enter the room with a key, and came out about 2 minutes later and told me the cause, and handed back my card(s)… didnt even verify my ID.

      but suppose that paper got jammed in something… or the card was split and no longer usable. the card might have been the cause… in which case the whole thing is a moot point. doesnt matter if the card is 'destroyed' if the card is already damaged enough to have gotten stuck in the machine…

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  ralpheroo72 on 16/02/2015 - 13:43

  Contact your bank, they in turn will ask nab to audit the atm, when there is a surplus located, you ought to get your cash back.

  On a side note, a lot of banks have restrictions on the cards they issue, so that it reduces the possibility of un-authorised usage. Like when you go overseas to some countries, and try and use the atm, the request will be declined. Its only after you tell your bank you are travelling, that your card ought to work as normal. In some high risk areas, if you try and use the atm, the card issuer will instruct the atm to retain the card.

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  jinroh on 16/02/2015 - 18:03

  +12

  My 2 cents:

  For me, this kind of discussion can be very useful for anyone, especially reading comments like the first reply from Greenpossum above, who seem to be more knowledgeable in this topic than most ppl. The information from this thread serves me some new knowledge to:

  • Be prepared of this kind of situation when using different bank's ATM. Bank will destroy unreturned ATM cards. So for those overseas card which card replacement is hard to get, don't risk it. (I have an Indonesian ATM debit card, NOT credit card, and for any card replacement, I need to PERSONALLY collect it from the bank branch that I opened the account from. I can't even do it from any other branch).

  • Be ready for this kind of situation when travelling abroad. Always have a backup card / other means of carrying money.

  • Use eftpos at coles/woolies to withdraw cash to avoid this potential problem (another great tip).

  What I think I can do without, is to sieve through those quick judgements replies above, questioning on how the OP's behaviour could justify the treatment he received from the bank, which add nothing useful to anyone. No one was there to witness first hand, was it the OP or the bank lady who started first being rude.

  Someone above pointed out that Ozbargain forum is no place for this kind of 'whinging' post, but I disagree. Sometimes there's unknown caveat applies to us being bargain hunters, that we may be subject to receive second class citizen treatment. So at least by those who are bothered reading these kind of threads, we can know what to expect when bargain hunting. I know, cause it happened to me before and I shared the story here, not to ask for ass-licking sympathy from anyone, but to warn others who bother to read it, that it might also happen to them and also find more information and better understanding of what happened, what can be done, and what to do next time to avoid the same problem occurring in the future. The same reason, from what I can see and believe, that the OP is looking for here.

  The trend that I can notice however is that many ppl here in Ozb is very, very quick, showing zero compassion and tolerance, to judge stranger on the internet posting their story on a public forum. Some are so quick and itchy to judge others that it is obvious from reading the reply, they can't / don't have time to comprehend the original post properly.

  TL;DR Rather than pointlessly judging a stranger on the internet, why can't we all try to read the post properly and only share useful information from each other? :-)

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    Charybdia on 16/02/2015 - 18:31

    Because that promotes people making new accounts so they can whinge.

    The reason why OP and others with similar posts are being judged is because they are coming to a public forum and asking that we advise and judge their situation and then they post a whinging/belligerent response when they don't get the advice or vindication they wanted to hear.

    You are ASKING to be judged if you respond in such fashion.

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      jinroh on 17/02/2015 - 01:10

      +6

      And by keep responding to them were meant to stop the whingers from posting? How? If they are whingers and attention seekers, they are surely getting all the attention, albeit negative, and wouldn't that urge them to post more to defend themselves and whinge more?

      I can't say for other threads which I haven't read, but with this one, by my comprehension on the original post & first few replies, the OP sounds quite reasonable to me. He was using an overseas atm card, so he could be someone who is new to the country, and may not speak English as first language. Imagine yourself in a foreign country, speaking different language that you might not know too well, let alone the local banks' policy regarding swallowed atm card, and then this happens and plus you later see that your account has also been deducted incorrectly.

      He was quite content upon reading a valid & knowledgeable answers provided here, which he didn't seem to get or hear from the NAB, hence his post in here. But scroll down only by few more comments and you can see:

      • Some people conveniently assume he must be a little brat who is very hard to deal with, just by the fact that he was asked to leave the bank.

      • Someone speculates that he must have asked the bank manager the same question at least ten times.

      • Someone asks that he must have got his card eaten by atm machine a lot in the past, just because he knew that in other country the bank can return the card by providing a valid ID.

      and the irrelevant judgments & replies goes on and on… with few good and relevant information in between. Now I know whose posts I would rather not see in here.

      again, my 2c.

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  [Deactivated] on 17/02/2015 - 00:27

  +6

  Hi mate I have read most of the comments.
  As far as the situation itself goes, card belongs to your bank, your bank has a agreement with all the other banks as part of the ATM networks on how everything related to how cards from other banks are handled and that includes events like ATM malfunction or incorrect amount of cash dispensed or not at all).

  Basically if this happens the bank has no lee-way on this, they MUST destroy the card pet the agreement with other banks, even if it's their fault.

  For their own customers (or by special inter bank agreement), some banks allow their CIT Guards to hand the card into the branch during the ATMs next opening for collection by the customer, but this is only offered as extra customer service in case that is more convenient for them.

  It is the issuing bank's responsibility to reissue the card and reimburse the missing cash, basically they are responsible to you for whatever happened at another banks ATM and they should be your only contact. It is their responsibility to chase up the other bank to fix the fault and audit the cash.

  Any bank worth anything would send a new card express anywhere in the world and reimburse the cash as soon as it's been audited. I have never heard of a bank actually requiring a customer to come back to their country to get a new card.

  Have you actually contacted your bank or are you assuming they are useless? Replacing lost ATM cards overseas should be an everyday standard procedure, as well as arranging ATM audits with another bank

  You should also have travel insurance you can turn to, they usually pay an allowance for lost documents.

  Also don't rule out that your bank made a mistake by sending the command to retain the card an their system debuted you anyway, rather than a NAB malfunction.

  As far as your treatment from NAB branch staff, we can only speculate because we only have your side of the story. Maybe the manager had assumed that her staff member adequately explained it to you but because of the fact you asked for a manager she thought you were being confrontational by not accepting their answer. Couple that with someone I presume is Chinese (or another culture) she might not have misinterpreted your non confrontational body language and tone of language as being confrontational and felt uncomfortable with you being there.

  Not saying that would be right, everyone deserves to be at least heard out by a manager and get a satisfactory response as long as they are respectful, just putting it out there of what could have happened

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    caitsith01 on 17/02/2015 - 11:37

    "Basically if this happens the bank has no lee-way on this, they MUST destroy the card pet the agreement with other banks, even if it's their fault."

    This is just not right. Read the comments in this thread. Many people, including me, have had the experience of getting a card back from a bank branch after it is eaten by an ATM.

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      [Deactivated] on 18/02/2015 - 00:58

      +3

      Yes I have too, but this is usually because it's within the same bank where they are not bound by all of the policies of the network.

      Eg: Westpac-issued card into Westpac ATM to Westpac Branch is definitely okay

      Eg: GE Money-issued card into Westpac ATM to Westpac Branch MAYBE okay if GE Money and Westpac have an agreement to do so (guessing this is possible as GE Money already have a special agreement with Westpac for fee-free ATM withdrawals)

      Eg: Some obscure bank in China they hardly have any dealing with so they have no direct agreement with and only accept their card because they are both on the MasterCard (or Cirrus, JCB, Visa or whatever) network then NO.

      Network rules then take precedence where there is no other policy because they are not versed in the other banks specific policies and would rather play it safe then to give another banks card to someone else (even with ID) and risk liability if they didn't do something right because of a procedure they didn't know about.

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    TtiGeR on 18/02/2015 - 17:47

    +1

    "Have you actually contacted your bank or are you assuming they are useless? Replacing lost ATM cards overseas should be an everyday standard procedure, as well as arranging ATM audits with another bank"

    Unfortunately, not the case for bank cards issued by most Chinese banks.

    I just booked flights to China to renew my Visa card (plus visiting friend but renewing the card was one of the key reasons). The card is expiring in 2 months. They can't send a new card to anywhere (including China). I have to physically visit the original issuing branch to get my card (with my Photo ID + my withdrawal pin). It's pretty annoying that I have to do that once every 3 years. Fortunately, the card works in China (for online shipping) even if it's expired because it uses China Union Pay (instead of Visa) in China. The expired card just doesn't work outside of China due to Visa rules.

    (PS. I did ask what if someone is in hospital so unable to attend the bank in person. The bank said in such case the person should wait until he/she is capable of visiting the branch. I also asked if they would accept Power of Attorney which they refused. They said the only exception is a court order. Some people might have noticed Bank of China branches in Sydney and Melbourne. Interestingly, they don't provide standard service to customers with bank accounts/cards opened by Bank of China branches in China. They can only make money transfers.)

    I also once disputed a transaction with the bank. They refused to investigate but asked me to prove that I did not make the transaction. How can anyone prove they did not do something?! It took me 4 months of arguments to get about $5 back. Not worth the time but for the principle.

    So the lessons were learned. While I will keep the card, I shall probably only use it on Chinese websites. Given the complexity of replacing a Chinese bank card in Australia, I wouldn't take the risk.

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      [Deactivated] on 19/02/2015 - 15:01

      Wow that's ridiculous, on that basis I would not consider a Chinese ATM card from that bank a valid method to access money internationally except in an emergency situation. Surely there are other options that Chinese people can do like transferring funds onto a prepaid Visa or MasterCard or opening an account at another bank overseas if they qualify or another Chinese bank that isn't so useless. I can't say that I'm familiar with the Chinese Market but surely there are some go-to options like we have Citibank Plus and to a lesser extent now 28 Degrees

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  jinroh on 17/02/2015 - 01:04

  edit: reply to post above

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  FirstWizard on 17/02/2015 - 05:17

  +2

  I've had error messages instead of cash in two different occasions at NAB ATMS. both times the balance was reduced but the money was returned after about 5 working days.

  But once time I wanted to withdraw $1000 for something very important and after not getting cash I didn't have access to that $1000 for a week. Which made me finally give up on NAB and go with a different bank.

  Well you can also tell how that the their ATMS are quite crappy just by looking at them, not to mention the time lag between responses.

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    Baysew on 18/02/2015 - 16:28

    +2

    Well you can also tell how that the their ATMS are quite crappy just by looking at them

    NAB ATM

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  Hiroko on 17/02/2015 - 07:48

  +3

  today's lesson
  do not stick your objects in foreign holes
  before analysing the consequences

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  pitufon on 17/02/2015 - 09:16

  +2

  This is why I left the NAB. Terrible customer service.

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    hashtagbargain on 19/02/2015 - 09:40

    and where did you go to?

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    lplau on 19/02/2015 - 15:39

    Lol don't think there is a bank in Australia which actually has good customer service.
    Would be surprised to know which one you went to, and then there will be thousands of customers saying that one is also terrible service. haha

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      pitufon on 25/02/2015 - 10:58

      To be honest every time I go overseas and come back I am reminded of how much our customer service has dropped. Starting right from the second I get off the plane and have to face customs.

      I am now with the ANZ. They are not great, but they are much better than NAB (in my experience)

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  dbadcock on 17/02/2015 - 14:49

  +1

  Probably already been mentioned, but most banks will Re-Issue a new card free of charge. Not sure about overseas banks.

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    AMLagonda on 18/02/2015 - 16:12

    +1

    Did you read the post, its a China bank account. OP lost the card and the money.

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      lplau on 19/02/2015 - 15:40

      He didn't lose the money, losing implies he will never get it back. He just got his money temporarily borrowed by the ATM. LOL!

      As for the card, sadly he has lost that and will need to get a new one.

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        AMLagonda on 22/02/2015 - 18:35

        -1

        You sir better read the thread again lol he has to (I think) go into the Bank to get the money back, in China.

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        lplau on 23/02/2015 - 10:40

        @AMLagonda: I believe he has to go back to China to get a new card.
        However with ATM not dispensing the money, that is dealt with domestically by the ATM/Branch at fault.

        I've had the same issue happen to me with an ATM not spitting out money, you basically go into the branch or call up the ATM's bank and tell them which ATM and they will launch an investigation, which at the end of it they will give you back the money. It does take around 2-3 weeks for them to finish the process though, as they outsource all of this to a "money" company, which is why it takes so long.

        They will just reverse the transaction, which would also reverse the fees if any (Australian banks have this mechanism, not sure about Chinese Banks if they do this).

        Yea its annoying, but the OP should have calculated the risk before using an ATM or any machine built by man. If he wanted 100% to get his money, he should have gone into a branch instead. lol.

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