I am 40year old with family, I lost recently all my savings in stock market. Not sure what to do ..I do not have any money in my bank account and have borrowed against my house as well.. I was in very well position just few months back when I was not doing stock. Feeling lonely and depressed … My family still supporting me but its getting very difficult for me to live normally….It will take another 7-8 year more for me come back into same position where I was few months back..
Just thought of sharing my story to get some relief…
Lost My All My Savings/Money in StockMarket. and CFDs
db318 on 21/01/2015 - 16:40
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I should have done that in place of investing money in Stock..
Cypher67, I don't see how that comment was appropriate given the situation that the OP was in.
Gloating is just not on at a time like this. Perhaps you don't know but losses such as this is quite common (or at least more common than you think) among new investors and the last thing they need to hear is hind-sight rubbish from human beings like you
@Geethanks:
Mate, if you cant afford to lose it, you shouldn't gamble it on the stock market. I feel for the bloke and what he would be going through, but you play with the bull there is a chance you get the horns. Each to their own, get off your high horse, this is ozbargain not a group therapy session.@cypher67: Even though I agree with your sentiments on what is essentially gambling (at least in my eyes), I do agree that discussions like this do deserve some tact. It's quite serious when someone literally loses everything they have, and worse when they have family to support.
People commit suicide over stuff like this. Feeling isolated and depressed, with no way of reaching out for help or simply 'venting' is also a damn good way of ending up in negative coping patterns like drinking etc. Not always, of course, but the risks of poor mental health consequences would still be high.
Sometimes it's hard to feel compassion if you do believe the person is to blame for their situation. But you gotta remember that nobody is perfect, judging stuff in hindsight isn't going to help the present situation. We're all inclined to do things we regret, and we all deserve some help and support in those instances.
And yeah, this is just the internet etc, but these days isn't that one of the easiest places for most of us to turn to when we actually need some unofficial group therapy? Or just general community support / advice?
"cypher67 22 hours 31 min ago new
This is why I spend all my money on bargains and never invest. Yeah I rent, but I have all the toys I want and I am happy."Lets see how happy you are with a kickarse collection of outdated ipads at 65 yoa and renting
I really feel for OP as CFD trading is very stressful situation.
capitalism
So is gambling, however if you have any idea of the game and some advanced knowledge of mathematics, you can turn probability in your favour and mitigate the risks when you make a bet.
Gambling is higher risk but quicker returns, investment is almost always the opposite. I feel if you have not studied what you're doing, you shouldn't do it ( unless of course you play cash poker, feel free to come increase my bankroll =D )
How much if you dont mind me asking?
Ive been trying out the stock market game via an android app using fun money, everything is red!Do you mind saying which app your using? I've been looking for something like this for a while now
Im using Stock Trainer and TradeHero . TradeHero seems a little easier to buy diff country stocks, whereas on my phone it only loads the ASX in Stock Trainer.
Thanks for that, I downloaded Stock Trainer and am taking a look :)
Thanks for reminding me, almost forgot about it.
Thank you! To the next round of paper trades!
red is the new black!
CFD is very dangerous, people please if you must borrow try margin lending not cfd
i do not have much knowledge regarding the stock market. Can you please tell me what CFD means. Thanks.
Contract For Difference. It is a synthetic future that allows you to bet on the movement of a security.
So you can bet oil or BHP will go down or up.
You can leverage the bet, so that if BHP goes down $1, you get paid $1000 (for example). The problem is that if BHP goes up $1 you lose $1000.
Normally, if you buy shares, all you can do is lose the money you invested. With leveraged investments you can lose many times your investment.sounds risky.
I can't believe something like this even exists. Thats crazy… I can understand if you have some savings to play with… but being allowed to use debt - thats crazy!
wait but how much of your own money are you putting in at the start to make the 1:1000 bet?
better not confuse people with term of bet. cfd is NOT gambling. it is very similar as margin lending but with bigger leverage. and usually involve market maker.
but basically you borrow 90% and provide 10% only. this 90% can be higher. thats it.@erwinsie: Unless a CFD is entered into as a business transaction, the ATO ruling (at http://law.ato.gov.au/atolaw/view.htm?docid=TXR/TR200515/NAT…), is that a CFD IS gambling: "15. A gain or loss from a financial contract for differences entered into for the purpose of recreation by gambling will not be assessable income under section 6-5 or section 15-15 of the ITAA 1997 or deductible under section 8-1 or section 25-40 of the ITAA 1997. A capital gain or capital loss from a financial contract for differences entered into for the purpose of recreation by gambling will be disregarded under paragraph 118-37(1)(c) of the ITAA 1997."
How so? If the house price goes down tomorrow, I don't incur a loss until I sell it. I'd say investing in a house is more like ordinary stock with some margin lending. The only difference is that there's no call on the margin, until you sell it (so rather than having a margin call, you can't dispose of the house until you pay the difference as bank won't release title)
@erwinsie: I think betting is a fair term. Even without that ATO ruling below, it's pretty much gambling and with money you don't have in a synthetic market.
@konazz: I think you should check with your bank on that. I'm pretty sure that if the value of your house falls below the value of your loan then your bank will be knocking on your door demanding cash. Just like a margin call.
@iseenya: That is incorrect and applies only if it was entered into specifically for the purpose of recreation by gambling.
These parts cover non-business transactions for the purpose of making a profit:
A gain from a financial contract for differences will be assessable income under section 15-15 of the ITAA 1997 where a taxpayer enters into a financial contract for differences in carrying on or carrying out a profit-making undertaking or scheme, and the gain from it is not assessable under section 6-5 of the ITAA 1997.A loss from a financial contract for differences where the gain would have been assessable under section 15-15 of the ITAA 1997 is an allowable deduction pursuant to section 25-40 of the ITAA 1997.
Do not margin lend. Get a personal loan. That way you are not dragged down when the shares go down. The shares might drop but you only have to keep making repayments - not margin calls. Over time your shares might regain their value.
A bit like the OP, I lost it all in the GFC and it was the margin lending that smashed me. I had the debt paid off in under 5 years. Lifes goes on….
Not sure how the interest on a personal loan can be tax deductible which is one of the main advantages to margin lending.
If the purpose of the loan is investment, then the interest payments are tax deductable.
@RustyStainless: exactly. people dont realise that negative gearing applies to shares just as much as houses
I had a margin call during the GFC too. The most likely time you'll get a margin call is when the stock market is at the bottom, when your debts are the same but the value of the stock is a lot less. So you're forced to sell at the worse possible price.
Bad luck dude
I'm sorry to hear you lost your money.
You are lucky that you can restore your position with a few years of hard work. There are older people in the same boat who don't have the option to get it back.
Reading your post it sounds like you are having very grave feelings about this, but please remember it is just money. You were trying to do your best, but it didn't pan out. It is very positive your family is supportive, perhaps dwell on how much joy a walk in the park with your loved ones brings - joy that costs nothing.
You have done well to pay off a house by the time you were 40, remember that same work ethic will help you succeed in the future.brilliantly said keggs.
(+ just wasn't enough)
Well said. + also wasn't enough. You still have you family and time to regain your position. Hard to hear right now I bet, but this is good news. But op, I feel for you. Also, never play with stocks again.
I thought with shares they are "paper losses" until you sell.
If you buy shares, this is true.
With CFDs, however, the broker makes a margin call if you are losing.
So if you bet $1 to win $1000 if BHP goes up $1, but it then falls, the broker will send you a bill for $1000 immediately. (well, it isn't quite instant, but they will debit your brokerage account swiftly, typically at the end of the day). So you can be ruined by the market moving against you, even if it later returns to positive, if you ran out of money to cover the losses.very insightful for the unweary newbies.
Could it possible be cheat? I am very sceptical about things like these where a company or large player(s) who shift these into what may look favourable only to 'scam' the money.
Except when the company goes bust and dissappears off the sharemarket.. Happened to me, lying kents did a capital raising first claiming everything was dandy, took in more of everyones money and then folded. None left after liquidating debtors for the shareholders, bet management took off with a nice cut though.
A story all too common.
is this NXS by any chance? Well they are not the only one, but from recent memory, this is one of the latest scandal
Hi, very sorry to hear that. Very often, when people start 'investing' in the stock market, they have not developed the proper risk management skills. I have learnt that the stock market isn't about making money but rather, it is primarily about risk management. Most people do not learn risk management strategies until they have experienced the market first hand, investing their own real money (rather than playing the stock market games). That is, risk management skills do not eventuate until they have invested real money and hence those who say that they have 'made' money on the stock market games will usually fail at making money in the markets. This is why most people (80-90%) will lose on the stock market and hence you are definitely not alone and I have heard stories similar to yours many times.
For example, if you follow hot copper or any other stock market forums (and I bet that you do), many people are blindly attracted to the potential profits of stocks that are ramped on these forums, thinking that the posters are kind/knowledgable investors that are giving away quality tips regarding the companies that they hold. Most are merely ramps regarding non-revenue generating speculative 'dogs' as they call it
What you need to take away is the lessons which you have learnt from this experience
A quote from a famous investor george soros: "Once we realize that imperfect understanding is the human condition there is no shame in being wrong, only in failing to correct our mistakes."
Although you might not want to re-enter the markets, I do hope you learn from this experience whether it is a lesson that family is far more important than money in life and to manage risk whenever you are playing the financial markets.
Finally, I have lost count of how many people have lost money in the hundreds of thousands of dollars or even one million dollar + on the stock market. Even worse, some has had their marriages and relationships destroyed. OP, you are very strong in sharing your experience and seeking help. GL in the future
Many of the rampers on Hot Copper are actually trying to sell their stock to the newbs. Many of the other rampers are just deluded.
The main thing with risk management is to sell as soon as your stock starts to fall. You can buy back when it's lower, or you can buy another stock that's going well. There's always better stocks and better timing.
The main mistake is to buy high and sell low. You should be buying low and selling high. But, of course, the stock has to be a good one.
Thanks everyone for your supporting comments!
All the best for the future, and hopefully you can make it back up.
All the best to you, don't do anything rash mate. Think of the love ly family and friends that you have around you. They need you as much as you need them.
db, you say you are feeling lonely and depressed.
Completely understand that you feel this way after something like this.If it gets worse/acute or lasts more than a couple of weeks.. by all means see your GP.
You live in (still, just) a great country where you can get free assistance with this.
There are coping strategies that will put you back on the right path.I have a family member who lost 4mil+ and who just scraped shy of bankruptcy.
He's worked hard, gotten himself back to generally good health, and now is loving life even more.. with a new view on life. It's hard to see that now, but the path is there.Bummer, at times like this best to focus on what you got. A loving family for one, and that's something money can't buy.
I think you need to take something away from this situation and make sure it never happens again. Seems like you were taking on a lot of risk which may be something to look into. The share market is very risky since it's not predictable and essentially gambling unless you have some insider information.
I hope you learn from your mistakes and return to being a profitable investor soon :)
Sorry to hear OP, Hope you bounce back quickly.
Long term share equity investment is very much different from CFD type which actually is a kind of gambling. People do CFD investment is because either of greediness or ignorance.Most of Australisn supernauation fund invest their funds in share equity.My advice is while it is unwise to put your hard -earned savings into CFD there are definitely advantages for you to invest on share equity.
Exactly. People should be very cautious with CFDs and penny stocks, but you're unlikely to lose significant amounts with blue chips or index funds over the long term.
Oh dear, this is horrible. I feel sorry for you. This reminds me of one of my uncles. After his first big loss, he didnt stop but went on to borrow from family and friends and loan sharks….. Needless to say he went bankrupt. I hope you would never ever reach that stage and if you do, your loving family will stop you. Look at everyone who supports you here. Cut your losses and move on, dont look back.
one advise, dont use/borrow from credit cards and fall into another trouble - their interest is shocking.
wow… capslock, know nothing about cfd, no compassion, over confident… see how many - you get.
not really cfd is not gambling its just one of the way to trade shares. the dangerous one for sure
they invested in CFDs fool. You can lose a lot, it nothing about owning shares.
Thats terrible. the most important thing is to try to stay positive . We all have done silly things or not even silly just things that we thought we understood and then found out the hard way. The important thing is to learn from your experience. DO NOT jump back in and try to get some money back. If you respond that way then you have to admit to yourself that you have a gambling tendancy.
There is a way out- you have identified it- work hard and in a few years you will be part of the way back. You will so much better and stronger after you recover.I would just like to thank the poster for sharing his story. Having lost half of my savings from my first job, I have an idea of how this feels. The stocks I bought were Murchison Metals and Metal Storm, unfortunately I did not diversify or hold more secure companies. Hopefully, putting this out there can serve as a warning for others.
DO INVEST in:
Bonds, ETFs, Index Funds, Blue Chips, Managed funds with your own money. Increase super contribution.
Hold > 10 years.DO NOT speculate in:
CFDs, options, puts, calls, futures, warrants, binaries, derivatives, forex, small caps
Unless you know what you are doing.
Unless you know what you are doing.
Meaning that you:
- Are significantly more sophisticated than the vast majority in the market, and/or
- Posses relevant insider information, and/or
- Have a reliable source of live information which puts you at a time advantage to the vast majority in the market and can action trades within this window of effectiveness.
If you know all that, would you still be considered speculating?
Agree though.
And have the tools ie software used by professional traders
Add can beat institutional traders to your list. What a dedicated team can achieve beats an individual with a computer.
i dont know that i would be advising everyday investors to put their money in government bonds, and i think that investing in corporate bonds or unsecured notes is probably a bit beyond the ken of the average punter.
eTBs & eTIBs should be easily bought on ASX
http://australiangovernmentbonds.gov.au/etbs/list-of-etbs/
http://australiangovernmentbonds.gov.au/etibs/list-of-etibs/Or a bond ETF, ie SPDR S&P Aus Bond ETF 1 yer return @ 10.52%
http://www.spdrs.com.au/etf/fund/fund_detail_BOND.htmlIronically, bonds as an asset class were doing pretty well last year
http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/caution-rules-as-bond…
http://www.smh.com.au/business/markets/bonds-continue-to-shi…So, I guess diversification is key.
Also check out LICs like Soul Patts which I believe has been around more than 100 years..
Investments are long term :)
Think about people who are living in poor countries, who are barely living off food, let alone living a luxurious life such as ours. I've witness this just a week ago, having visited a 3rd world country.
Like others have said, having a family that loves you (clearly they do since they are still supportive) is worth more than any amount of money.
@sulmar: regarding, "Think about people who are living in poor countries, who are barely living off food"
Your intentions are great, and that's a very normal response.
However, comparing oneself with the perceived amount of pain others are in, I don't feel is that helpful.It's almost akin to saying he is incorrect in feeling depressed after suffering such a tragic event, because he's still better off than some people.
Empathy is about listening, and understanding another's pain.. not trying to play it down or fob it off.
As I said though, I think your intentions were good, and indeed I was tempted to write something similar at first. It's a normal 'sympathy type' trap to fall into.
Apparently if you can afford to eat 3 protein meals a week you are in the wealthiest top 15% of the worlds population. I could eat protein for every meal so does that mean I'm like in the top 10-5%?
Yes
I LUV being rich.
I eat protein (WPC / WPI drink mostly) approx 3 times a DAY… costs me under $1 a pop. Assuming $3 x 365 = $1,095… so 85% of the world's pop can't fork out an extra 1.1k for protein a year?
I do think availability had something to do with this however, went to HK a year ago, barely anyone eats protein… all sources of food were mostly carbs. Got to the point of desperation where i was going to maccas 3 times a day for their grilled chicken… Told them all i wanted was the chicken fillets and no bun or mayo but they wouldn't let me. Felt so bad having to chuck out 6 buns a day (for a week, then found a bodybuilding shop where i bought ON wpi at an extortionate price.)
firstworldproblems
Average wage in Indonesia, a country of 250 million people, is about $2k.
That's the average, not the median or the minimum. The average.
And they will generally be supporting family, both old and young. The pension/super/insurance/health system isn't great so if you can't work your family has to support you.
Protein powder costs the same there as it does here.
So yeah, putting the majority of your pay toward protein powder is probably not on the cards for a lot of people.
Lol I messed up, deserved the above negs for being an overall inconsiderate arse for the rest of humanity and for that i apologize…
Was gaming and got sidetracked, my original point was supposed to be that the statement - 'if you can afford to eat 3 protein meals a week you are in the wealthiest top 15% of the worlds population' - is greatly exaggerated because the % is too low…
Going back to protein, 3 meals a week consisting of protein powder only costs $156 per year, if you ate an alternative source like an egg, expenses would be a lot less than $156 (unless you live in Syria). Doesn't mean there aren't other indicators of wealth, just saying that protein meals per week is a bad example.
Sorry to hear the financial glitch you have made. To put it into perspective you should ask yourself:
- Can i still make a living to keep up with my debts?
- Do i still have money to feed the family or myself?
- Does my family or friends still support me in rebuilding my wealth?If you answered yes, then you should just take this a learning lesson for your future success that you WILL have.
Remember, Successful people learn from their mistakes - not hide in a cave from shame.
It's good to see you had ambition to invest, rather then just splurge to live for the moment. That's a good sign you have initiative.PS. Some of my regrets in hindsight: Being naive in purchasing a unit off the plan and after 10 years, lost over $100K. Only found out i purchased a hotel accommodation!!!
My financial Success: Purchasing a new place to live and made sure I wasn't a dud property like mentioned above. It more than covered my loss from the previous place in 5 years.You're lucky to have a supportive family. Stay positive. You will surely learn from this experience not just with finances but with other aspects of life. Thanks for sharing.
"This too shall pass"
Don't look back.
Forget the past.
Easy for me to say,but I have been there.
Look ahead.
Think of your loved ones.
Work hard.
Play hard.
Think smart
U said it….in a few years u will back to were u were.
Go do it champWhat Gummi said.
Luckily your family is helping out and however hard it is now, you will survive.
Just work your butt off and repay them asap.
Most importantly, dont ever get in too deep again.
Step 1 - Pay of the house again by using some hard saving method
Step 2 - Invest in memories by doing what you love doing !!
When you are 65 you will have a fully paid house and wonderful memories that's enough to continue living !!Mate, I feel for you. Something pretty similar happened to me too. I have a salary lower than the Oz average but have managed to put savings aside and make some good investments as well. Paid off my home by 38. But then I had 2 major setbacks. The biggest one was the GFC. I lost what was to me an enormous amount of money on the stockmarket. So much that it got to the point that I had to stop counting. I never used debt, margin loans, derivatives, etc, and always invested in what I thought were reasonably conservative companies. And I had sold my real estate. So there I was with what was on paper a fraction of what I used to have.
Basically what happened was that when it became too stressful I just had to distance myself emotionally from it all. I started to treat it all as just numbers. Still important numbers, but not as important as other things.
When the dust finally settled I sat down and thought about what I'd just learnt and what I was going to do about it. Since then I've changed my tactics. I almost never invest in equity any more. It just seems to be rigged against the average guy. I know there are people who make money out of it but I decided to look elsewhere. Now 6 years on things are looking better.
So I guess I'm really just here to say hang in there, things can/will change, and look at what you've learnt and what you still have. All the best to you.
Just wondering what sort of tactics you are using now? Could you give some idea :)?
yes DB i know how you feel….i have lost lots of money gambling on horses ,shares and cfd's..keep your chin up and maybe try exercise like walking to clear your mind. I am 49 renting and no money , but it doesn't matter how many times you go down as long as you keep getting back up . Colonel Sanders founded KFC when he was 68. CFD's you can either lose or make a lot of of money very quickly..very risky….shares are ok holding them long term but short term trading is no good.
Nothing is more important than the love and relationship with your family. Money is just an avenue to different walks if life. If you let it bother you then it will bother you. Just keep doing what you're doing. There is always someone to talk to should you need to!
If you lost money trading CFDs in Australia then this would be tax deductible against your income. Gains from CFDs are considered income and losses considered a deduction. This differs from shares in Australia where the gain or loss would more likely be of a capital nature, unless you were in the business of share trading.
I mention this as if you have a regular job at very least you should be able to get a tax refund for some of the losses.
CFDs are treated differently in other parts of the world. I understand that the UK treats CFDs as gambling income (which is reasonable given the very high level of risk involved) and therefore gains are not taxable and losses not deductible in the UK.
Best of luck to you but I hope some tax deduction is some concession for you.
Get your own advice of course I am not a tax agent.
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Did you get your investment property?
https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/132983