Neighbour Wants to Move Fence

maximum on 09/10/2014 - 18:08

I am living in a home about a year old which we are currently selling. The boundary fence was erected by our old neighbour about 6 months ago. He had it put in his land so he could build up his side and make the backyard level. We had no say in this he just put up the fence and gave us the bill to pay half (which we did).

He sold the home and our new neighbour has just come to see me about the fence as he cannot open the electricity box. They want to have the fence moved and us to pay half. I don't mind it being moved - it's their land - but definitely don't want to pay half - I have already paid for the fence and I have landscaped all down the side.

I have googled but can't seem to find a solution. I am in nsw.
Thanks in advance for any advice.

TLDR: new neighbour wants to move 6 month old fence and wants me to pay half.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • Davros on 09/10/2014 - 18:10
    +11

    So dont pay - you were never under any obligation to do so before and you are not now, at least in QLD

    • cowiie on 11/10/2014 - 07:34
      +1

      So we don't need to share the costs of a boundary fence in QLD?

  • Davros on 09/10/2014 - 18:12

    "I have googled but can't seem to find a solution."

    So you found nothing in this?
    Really?
    https://www.google.com.au/#q=paying+for+fence+nsw

    • maximum on 09/10/2014 - 18:24

      Unfortunately these cover new fences or existing fences that need repair not as new fences that are to be moved 10 cm.

      I honestly cannot find my situation or similar in these resources.

      Just thought someone may have come up against this before. Obviously it is cheaper to have fence moved than get involved in a legal dispute - plus the new neighbours are nice -so far.

      • Settero on 09/10/2014 - 19:38
        +15

        you do not have to pay half.

        if the current fence is up to standard, you have no responsibility to pay for it, if your old fence was up to standard you should not have paid for half of the new one, if your new fence is not to standard you should not have payed for it.

        • dw121212 on 09/10/2014 - 22:29

          Yep

        • matt_will_fix_it on 11/10/2014 - 12:46
          +3

          Yep I agree - you should never have paid half for the fence 6 months ago either.

  • Ughhh on 09/10/2014 - 18:27
    +1

    Just because they give you a bill doesnt mean you have to pay… shouldn't have paid the first time imo
    You should give them a bill for your consultation time

  • Baysew on 09/10/2014 - 18:43
    +3

    I wouldn't want to pay twice.

    Try this link. NSW Law Assist

    The example given is an existing fence, where the neighbour wants to replace it with a colorbond one.
    It is the neighbour who has to bear the cost if the current fence doesn't need replacing.

  • mskeggs on 09/10/2014 - 18:51
    +8

    Suggest you will agree to pay half when it needs replacing, and get the next fence in the right spot.
    If the neighbour wants it sooner, they are welcome to pay for the move.
    Remember, if they had a half decent conveyancer they would have been aware of the fenceline issue when they bought the house.
    If the meter box is really the only issue, changing the way it opens should solve that.
    Being asked to pay half to resolve the issue that is no benefit to you is a bit rich.

    It may be that they are just trying to avoid a future dispute by sorting it out now, and will be happy with your assurances to fix it when the time comes (but if I was your neighbour I'd ask to get it in writing).

    • shaybisc on 09/10/2014 - 19:58

      "Remember, if they had a half decent conveyancer they would have been aware of the fenceline issue when they bought the house."

      How would the conveyancer know, unless the owner got planning approval from council? Many fences don't need planning approval.

      • backpaqer on 10/10/2014 - 08:21
        +2

        Title re-establishment survey.
        I would only ever get a fence moved if a proper survey has been done. And definitely would not move a fence that doesn't need repairing. I've got a reasonably new fence on my property and it is 15cm out of line impacting my build. I'm pretty sure the neighbour would not be paying for me to move the fence…I'm pretty sure I'd have to cough up…but I'm only getting that bit of the fence moved so they can brick up the garage wall - the builder is going to remove the fence and then put it back in the correct place. My cost.

        • shaybisc on 11/10/2014 - 12:29

          Hmm- interesting. Since you can get your conveyancing done for under $1000 and these re-establishment surveys cost about $1000 I am guessing that they are not standard practice. Unless it is a standard disbursement and so not in the fixed price conveyancing prices I just looked up.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2014 - 18:21

        When we purchased our house (NSW) the fences were surveyed as standard practice. We received a nice little report showing exactly where the fences were and where they were supposed to be.

        I would assume it would be normal to get that information at the time of making a purchase like this.

        I agree with mskeggs. They bought a house with a fence as it is, although I would add that I never would have paid for half of the other fence when it is was put up unless it was on the surveyed property line.

    • zeomega on 11/10/2014 - 16:36
      +1

      Suggest you will agree to pay half when it needs replacing, and get the next fence in the right spot.

      Please don't suggets that, cause the next thing you know, it may have a magical hole in the fence requiring replacement.

  • maximum on 09/10/2014 - 19:04
    +2

    I am going to suggest that they get the two panels that restrict the opening taken down from 180 high to 150 cm high . At their cost. It doesn't affect my amenities at all.

    I agree about their conveyancer - they should have picked it up and they could have got the old owner to cover it. A simple walk around the property when they bought would have shown them how tight the space was.

  • coin saver on 09/10/2014 - 19:06
    +1

    If your present fence is not on the boundary and there has never been a fence on the boundary in sa you would be up for the half cost of a new fence .(unless your land size is over half hectare) Any deal you did with the previous neighbours is irreverent.Did he declare to the new owners that the fence was not on the boundary as i believe that is a legal requirement?

    • Settero on 09/10/2014 - 19:42
      -2

      it has nothing to do with the boundary line since there is already a dividing fence present, as long as its up to code.

      • coin saver on 10/10/2014 - 14:48

        If the fence is totally on his land he owns it, he can call it a screen, he can remove it, or do as he pleases with it and still chase op for half the cost of a boundary fence.

        • Settero on 10/10/2014 - 16:54

          no he can not.
          the dividing fence does not effect where your property line starts/ends, you could own 1m of the land on the other side of the fence, you have every right to claim that land and have the fence moved 1m out , but at your own expense.

        • coin saver on 10/10/2014 - 17:07
          +1

          @Settero: By not being on the boundary the fence is not a boundary fence (or dividing fence) just a structure on the neighbours land.

        • [Deactivated] on 10/10/2014 - 18:46
          -5

          @coin saver: Thank heavens you aren't involved in law.

        • coin saver on 10/10/2014 - 18:55

          @Possumbly: That is a bit of an assumption on your part. Im not but have been involved in three boundary fence disputes in sa one very similar to this but on a larger scale that resulted in a nearly 2yr court case.

        • Settero on 10/10/2014 - 21:35

          @coin saver:

          this is wrong..

        • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2014 - 00:57
          -1

          @coin saver: Hardly an assumption, an educated guess because it's clear you don't have an inkling as to the facts regarding fences and boundaries. If surveys were done on boundary fences around this country a good number would be found to be off by more than a few cm. They are STILL shared fences and as has already been pointed out, in some states will eventually be considered the ACTUAL boundaries after x number of undisputed years. Nevertheless this "discussion" simply shows yet again why nobody should ever rely on a forum of expert amateurs for legal advice.

        • coin saver on 11/10/2014 - 20:45
          +1

          @Possumbly: I shared my shed with my neighbour it still doesn't give him title. As per Adverse Possession good luck with that http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/adverse+posses… the cost of this with appeals would bankrupt most people.

        • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2014 - 21:43
          -3

          @coin saver: thanks for sharing the fascinating info about your shed. My turn. My neighbour often parks along my nature strip, it won't ever give him title.

    • [Deactivated] on 09/10/2014 - 21:36
      -5

      Irreverent, and unholy to boot.

      Buying a property is caveat emptor irrespective of what the vendor may or may not have been required to do. Given it was the previous owner's choice to relocate the fence it's unlikely a conveyancer had any evidence at his/her disposal on which to comment.

      Someone has already given you the answer Max. Since you were not part of any agreement to shift the fence in the first place (?) then providing the fence is in fair condition any change your neighbour wants will be at his/her expense.

      • maximum on 09/10/2014 - 22:57
        +3

        Yes, we definitely didn't know how/where the fence was to be erected. We originally got quotes for it to be located just inside our boundary ,on the retaining wall ,about a year ago but the other party were not ready to move in so they didn't sign to give the go ahead.

        We didn't go ahead because they don't have to pay half if we just did it off our own bat. He then went ahead and built the fence in his land and sent us the bill which was more than our quote. We paid half of the quote we originally got - which was more than generous as he hadn't given us a notice to fence.

        The neighbours friend, who was trying to negotiate on his behalf, said maybe they will see what council says. Thank goodness our council is hopelessly bureaucratic and, in my experience, love passing the buck. As the fence is approximately on the boundary, is brand new and fully retained and landscaped - exactly as it was when they bought - I think council won't want to get involved.

      • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2014 - 11:50
        -2

        Let's hope the wet behind the ears neggers don't get stung in the future by some quaint notion that a vendor will always do the right thing and make full disclosure regarding undocumented changes to properties or doesn't point out existing and potential defects. It can be a scary world when your naivety and ignorance leads to significant economic loss.

        • coin saver on 11/10/2014 - 21:03
          +1

          The vendor has nothing to declare other than the fact that the boundary is not fenced, as to the disclosure failing to do so will/can result in compensation claims and/or cancellation of contract.Regarding your comment "Thank heavens you aren't involved in law"i have told you that i am not but you have failed to declare your legal qualifications.After reading some of your comments on this site i can only assume that you are a baiter and will leave this post hoping "your naivety and ignorance (doesn't)leads to significant economic loss'(for anybody yourself included )
          conceding that you are the master baiter.

      • pmupsinep on 11/10/2014 - 22:26
        +2

        Wow you're just a neg magnet.

  • shaybisc on 09/10/2014 - 19:29
    +3

    How did the original owner and the meter reader open the electricity box?

    • maximum on 09/10/2014 - 20:44
      +2

      I have no idea - they lived there for 6 months so it was probably bought to their attention but he knew he was selling so it wouldn't have bothered him.
      Their backyard does look much better flat than how it will be if the fence is moved. I guess the old owner knew that people would be sucked in by a flat back yard. Hopefully I get people who buy my house as quick as them.

  • Herbsman on 10/10/2014 - 07:29
    +2

    An obstruction to their meter box within their boundary has nothing to do with you. Maybe suggest they might have an issue with emergency services and the power company who would probably have some legal right to access this. I wouldn't pay but be neighbourly and allow them access to your side if they need it in the reconstruction. Also be aware that you have landscaped your side which now sounds like it is their land you have been using (trespassing etc etc)

  • WT on 10/10/2014 - 09:41
    +2

    When they bought the house they should have had the land survey done and would have known the fence was incorrect then
    a) Know that they have to pay themselves to fix
    B) not buy the property because of this.

    I would explain to them that you have just paid for half the fence, and to try and see it from your point of view.

    This could get messy.

    If its only a simple matter of opening the fuse box and they are not so worried about the loss of land, see if the fence can be cut at an angle to allow it to open, then recap the top (assuming its colour bond and at the end of the fence)

    Last resort. If you plan to stay, maybe a $100 gesture of goodwill will suffice (get a receipt). But something like this you should have paid more attention when it was erected in the first place.

  • GaryQ on 10/10/2014 - 10:25
    -1

    Be nice to your neighbours
    String them along for another 14.5 years
    Profit!

    Adverse possession occurs when another person’s land is intentionally used and all other parties are excluded from its use for more than 15 years.

    Section 8 of the Limitation of Actions Act 1958 (the Act) provides that no action shall be brought by any person to recover land after the expiration of 15 years from the date on which the right of action accrued. Section 18 of the Act provides that at the end of that period, the person’s title to the land shall be extinguished.

    • rewstar on 11/10/2014 - 19:02

      This is wrong, if you have told the other party (preferably in a written letter and a identification survey sketch) about the encroachment, that person cannot claim adverse possession on the land.

      It is also very hard to prove that you have been using someone's land continuously for 15 years.

      You are unlikely to be able to claim adverse possession on a slightly wrong positioned fence.

      If it was out by half a metre or more and you actually used the area daily ie parked your car there or used it as a driveway or paw to get into your backyard you would have a slightly higher chance of claiming adverse possession.

  • maximum on 10/10/2014 - 12:56
    +3

    I am hoping to be out of here in 8 weeks - if we sell - but I have arranged for my husband to see them on Monday to discuss. I think reducing the height of the fence is the best option as their yard is fully landscaped as well.
    My landscaping consists of painting the retaining wall the neighbour constructed and some plants from cuttings. It looks nice and took some time but it is no big deal if it has to go.
    Thanks for everyone's help I write back on Tuesday with the next step.

  • ravenit on 10/10/2014 - 22:14
    +2

    Yes keep us all in the loop.
    One of my neighbors put up a fence on a property I owned in QLD and sent me the bill.
    I just sent him a registered letter saying I had not been consulted with the new fence size color type etc and not paying and that was that. Free fence woot
    The fact that its on his land is so strange who does that????

    • StewBalls on 11/10/2014 - 10:29
      +1

      I had not been consulted with the new fence size color type etc and not paying…

      ^This.

      No consultation, no quotes…no money! ;)

  • Kempe on 10/10/2014 - 23:14
    +3

    The fence is on the neighbours property therefor it is not a boundary fence.
    There is no fence on the boundary

    • badg3rz on 11/10/2014 - 09:59

      But the op already paid for half of it.

      If its not his fence, send bill for half of fence that was already built not on his land and put towards new fence?

      • Kempe on 11/10/2014 - 13:09
        +1

        The OP was stupid to pay half for a fence that they had no say on and wasnt even on the boundary, that is the big mistake here.
        As I see it he has to just forget that stupid error and pay for half a new fence to be erected on the boundary after getting a survey done to determine the real position.
        There is no being a good neighbour in these things just do it by the book, it is simpler in the long run

  • masadav on 11/10/2014 - 11:54
    +1

    My parents had an issue with a boundary fence and the next door neighbor. It was an old paling fence that had seen too many years and repairs. My parents were happy to pay for the replacement of the entire fence with colorbond, but the neighbor would not let us.

    After contacting council, they informed us that we could replace the entire fence (at our own cost), and replace it with whatever is the norm for the area (colorbond).

    All 3 surrounding blocks promptly pulled their fences down and this neighbor ended up with 3 different coloured colorbond fences (easily avoided if they had been willing to talk about it).

    This might vary from council to council, but on this basis I would assume that if they want to replace or move the fence, it would be at their own cost and that you would have no obligation to contribute.

    • WT on 13/10/2014 - 10:23

      I will keep this in mind, make the neighbours pay for the new fence, then paint my side- WIN!

  • Wallyt99 on 11/10/2014 - 13:46

    This one would be decided by vcat in victoria - as it is not a common problem. I think to some extent how far the fence is onto the other parties boundary will dictate the result - i.e is it 10cm… Or 1m?

    In the former - it's likely a valid fence - in the latter - maybe not. At a guess:

    Valid fence: Their cost AND makegood on any landscaping disturbed on your actual land.

    Invalid fence: Split cost but you may have a course of action against old owner - doubt the action would carry over with the title.

    The tribunal would clarify all this.

  • m2000 on 11/10/2014 - 16:04

    No real answers. But some good legal informations
    http://www.legalanswers.sl.nsw.gov.au/guides/neighbours/fenc…

    1. best to come to an agreement between both parties
    2. neighbour can issue a notice of fencing…then if not resolve within 1 month between yourselves, they can have a court order to erect….and court/tribunal to decide based on each case (ie whether to erect, cost,…)
  • [Deactivated] on 11/10/2014 - 16:54

    I'd suggest getting a sliding door for the electricity box.

    • leeroys_dad on 12/10/2014 - 19:02

      best suggestion yet. or somehow make a mini gate from the existing fence to allow elec box door to open

  • whooah1979 on 12/10/2014 - 19:17

    Get proper legal advice from a solicitor.

  • maximum on 23/10/2014 - 04:57

    Sorry for the late reply - we had really bad storms for a couple of nights that put off the meeting. I went to council on the Monday - just to find out where to go next - and they said the neighbour had just been in too. They told him as the fence was only 20 cm or less off the boundary and in perfect condition it would likely be all his costs to move but he could negotiate with us. He decided just to recess his meter box.

    Good fences make good neighbours.

  • oxmo on 30/10/2014 - 19:49

    "Good fences make good neighbours." +1

  • smpantsonfire on 30/10/2014 - 20:02

    Just holy moly, by the people saying if the fence isn't on the boundary it's not a boundary fence, you are all retarded.

    Do you honestly expect a fencer to have a surveyor out every time he builds a fence to make sure it's on a boundary? Yeah right. Keep dreaming. They will put up a fence where the old on is, and chances are its not on the boundary within 20cms the whole way along.

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