Paypal - Dispute After Friends & Family Payment

Sold a Magic shave to a guy in WA : https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/160254

posted the item and even provided photograph of the package which included my name and address and mobile number too. I rang Aus post to make sure I was doing everything correctly was told that I just had to have $7.20 worth of stamps and that I could send the item myself. Sent away and thinking was all done, then 1 week later I get a SMS saying he never got the item. I explained that if that was the case it was AUS post issue and not me.

Today I was looking through my email and noticed I had a dispute against me saying I never sent the item. I was a little confused as I received the funds through '' friends & family'' and was previously told by PayPal rep there would be no fees but also no protection either. I submitted the photo to PayPal online and also put in a phone call explaining my circumstances that I have CP and was unable to go to post office however I had $7.20 worth of stamps and I called my local post office and was told it wouldn't be an issue. I also explained that I had text and Instant messages that the buyer was aware of absolutely everything.

So I get through to PayPal on the phone and explain the whole situation and I get told that the photograph isn't good enough and that even though the money was sent through ''friends & family'' that I admitted I did not know the buyer so he was entitled to make a claim and that I would need to provide a tracking number( which obviously I did not have). I went on to explain that the buyer was aware of everything and that I had texts and IM to prove all this and also mentioned that he had the same photo.

I was put on hold for a while and then the same person tells me that nothing could be done and that I would have to provide a tracking number even though the buyer sent through the payment FF and I had proof that he agreed and was aware of everything.

  1. Buyer was aware of everything- never asked for tracking made aware of how I was going to send, didn't complain or say anything.
  2. He chose friends and family ( willingly no gun to his head) that should be end of it
  3. I was told me friends & family no buyer protection, I also made the buyer aware of this
  4. I sent the item and have no control of what AUS post does with it, photo, texts and IM to prove everything

Soon after the phone call ended I receive an email from PayPal stating that a tracking number or a receipt from AUS POST was necessary otherwise it would be ruled in the buyers favor. I put in a second phone call offering to send all texts and IM proving that the buyer new what he was doing and agreed to proceed. As you can imagine I was angry that someone could get away with something like this, the rep then puts me on hold then tells me due to '' unique circumstances'' PayPal would would cover both myself and the buyer'' It wasn't a lot of money not worth chasing up or time on the phone or posting this for that matter.

Still am very angry I don't care about the money I did everything the way I said I would I also made it clear that postage issues are not my problem & he did choose FF. I openly admitted I did not really know him who cares he chose to send the money through and if he wanted registered post ask for it!. PayPal were very dismissive of texts and IM said was my responsibility to provide tracking doesn't matter what buyer agrees to and that even though he sent money through FF I admitted I didn't know him so he could make a claim.

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Comments

  • +3

    Paypal does have some seller protection but you really need to use postage with tracking to benefit.
    Live and learn

    • -3

      shouldn't matter he chose FF end of story I didn't want to put through as sale I would have pass on PP fees which are a joke and two to avoid situation like this.

  • +2

    tracking number ? signature on delivery ? aus post is YOUR agent that you are using to deliver the item, its not the buyers responsibility to make sure it gets delivered but yours.

    • -3

      I know but FF option was used & everything buyer agreed and was aware of everything

      • +1

        look at this from paypals point of view, the person can just reverse the charges and then paypal either eats it or recovers the money from you who admits they made a SALE dishonestly under friends and family.

        kinda a no brainer… no protection, for you perhaps. that person has lots of protection.

        • -3

          I wasn't dishonest about anything to anyone I was completely the opposite to both the buyer and PP

      • +2

        Doesn't matter

  • Be glad it wasn't a laptop.
    Paypal is stacked against the seller, but you need to remember it allows sales to be made that otherwise would never have happened.
    I will trust a low feedback seller on ebay if they accept paypal that I never would with bank transfer.
    As a seller, you need to accept there is an occasional auspost loss, and an occasional dishonest customer.
    Paypal does give you tools that can avoid some of that risk, but in this case you were unable to use them.

    • -1

      even if PP didn't choose to fix me up it would have only been a $19 loss to me I don't care about $19 but like you say I have sent much more expensive items through FF thinking that if anything went wrong in post or the buyer was dishonest which I am 99% certain this is what has happened here it wouldn't be an issue.

      • I think you are assuming the receiver is dishonest. I posted a mobile phone back for repair and it was never received. I had tracking on it and they admitted it was lost in the post. Their "TRACKING" says they received it and that's all. They cant say where it was lost. Great Tracking!!

        Anything sent by AP needs to be insured. Tracking does NOT give you ANY insurance. Guess what, all they will refund is the postage cost if it gets lost!!

        The buyer like many others just wanted a cheap item, so they economised on shipping. They could be just like you thinking you ripped them off because they never received it.

        Look at their history, have they been complaining about other sellers? Its only a $19 item.

        AP is a government bureaucracy, they dont care and they are NOT reliable Hell they charge $1.50 per $100 of your item's value (or part thereof) for a one off delivery. Take a car you pay $1000 for a $30000 car for a year's insurance, a 3 day delivery time for a $30000 item insured, would be $450 and that's for AP doing their job!!!

        It's the pits but I think you are blaming the wrong people

        • -2

          he agreed to friends & family so all you just mentioned irrelevant shouldn't have been able to reverse anything not put through as a sale.

        • -1

          Tracking does NOT give you ANY insurance

          Not entirely true:
          In some cases, where Extra Cover is not purchased, compensation up to a maximum of $50 and a refund of postage may be payable, or we may elect to repair or replace the item up to $50 value, at our absolute discretion.
          http://auspost.com.au/parcels-mail/compensation.html

          All said, Auspost does tremendously well in my experience. Very few lost articles and pretty timely delivery.

        • @mskeggs:

          Tracking gives you no insurance, tracking WITH signature on receipt does. But that costs more….

          So in someways we may be both correct.

          From Auspost in response to my claim…

          Full text (Note this article has an article number - the "tracking number)

          We have monitored the scans for article number XXXXXXX and regrettably, there is no record of this article arriving through the Delivery Centre responsible for deliveries to the address listed. Assuming all details on the article were correct, the item would have been delivered as addressed. Any items that have been returned to sender but no return address is listed are forwarded to our Returned Mail Redistribution Centre. Although your address details are listed on the parcel, I have checked this facility and unfortunately we have been unsuccessful in locating this item. Unfortunately, due to the limitations of the service use, we are unable to investigate this matter further.

          As the service used is a non signature service there is no compensation payable in the event of a lost parcel. Please be aware, that on occasion and for a variety of reasons, some parcels can be delayed or be lost within our network. For this reason, Australia Post would recommend using the signature service and adding extra cover when sending items to ensure the security of a signature on delivery and extra cover will ensure the item is covered should it actually go missing in the mail stream.

          Whilst I understand it is of no consolation for the missing parcel, as a gesture of goodwill, we would like to refund the postage fee. A money order has been ordered and will be issued within the next 3-5 business days.

    • i rather have buyer pay with bank transfer than paypal

      at least with bank transfer they can't reverse it!

      • i rather have buyer pay with bank transfer than paypal

        I'm sure all sellers would, which is why buyers like to use paypal.

  • In Australia (for Paypal requirements) you need proof of posting.

    This does not (despite what Paypal told you) have to be a tracking number.

    You need a piece of paper, dated then stamped by Australia Post.
    On that piece of paper you also need the receivers name and address.

    What I do is a cut & paste of that information (& if mentioned - the item details) onto the paper.

    • -6

      It was FF payment which he agreed too and I can prove this FF has no protection and no fees end of story

  • +10

    If you are going to keep being closed minded and saying 'end of story', and not accept other people's opinion, what is the point of writing your story here? It is clear you are not willing to accept other people's thoughts and think that you are right and 'end of story'.

    I'm pretty sure that Paypal gets hundreds of these disputes coming up on their system everyday and must have some sort of a cut and clear system that they can enforce, to reach a verdict faster than sifting through every permutation of sob stories that will get posted there.

    My experiences regarding people who puts disputes against me were for not arriving, missing cable, paying $4 more for postage, not giving an item that wasn't even listed in the auction, and so on. I have never lost a single case because most of the time, if you send in your tracking number as proof, they will decide in your favour. Paypal cannot prove whether there was a missing item in the package (in my case, I am pretty damn sure I put in the cable and the buyer wanted a partial refund of $90 for a DVI cable that was 'supposedly' missing…yeh if that's not called scamming…).

    Most of the time, they will not put any weight on supposed texts or emails because that is just 'he said, she said'.

    • -2

      I would agree with you except it was friends & family not put through as a sale I was told clearly some time ago ( I wish I made a note of the call) that FF payments don't have any cover.

  • So are you sure it was a FF payment?

    You're the seller, you need to make sure he gets the item, end of story. Get a tracking number next time.

    • -3

      yes I am 100% certain and he knew this as well I can prove this

      • yes I am 100% certain

        I was sort of making a joke since you mentioned it so many times.

        I can prove this

        You would probably win court. Even if he was ok with FF payment, you shouldn't have done it.

        • -2

          why not I was not making any money I did everything at my cost and he knew that

  • +1

    you tried to be dishonest (claiming the buyer to be a friend/family when they obviously were not) and it backfired on you, live with it.

    i think the fact that every comment you have made has been negged into oblivion says more than simple words ever could.

    • -2

      I don't think I was being dishonest at all I wasn't making any money I gave to him at my cost, the funny thing is he 1st asked for my bank account details which I now wish,I am the one who mentioned the FF option and he agreed that was fine only reason I did it was so I could post out to him more quickly. I spend alot of time on the internet I have online contacts and we send stuff to each other regularly I have done this in the past accepted money through FF and sent goods at cost to the other person, I have no control over aus post he didn't ask for registered post and this is the 1st time I have had a complaint saying '' never got it''

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