Seller admits non-genuine battery, still wants me to pay postage to send back

phamid on 22/08/2014 - 14:03

Hi All,

I seem to be in a bad streak when it comes to eBay, but I purchased this battery (http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/221482539508?ssPageName=STRK:MEWN…) which was claimed to be genuine.

Purchased it and turns out it's not. Already threw out the satchel it came in and not the box ready to replace my client's battery when upon inspection, didn't look right.

Contacted the seller seeking an explanation and a refund, have been offered a refund, but still need to pay to send it back.

Sending it interstate would cost me more, but for a counterfeit item, seems bitter-tasting to pay for the return of an item that has been misrepresented to me.

What should I do to prevent myself from paying any extra?

General Discussion

Comments

  • goatus on 22/08/2014 - 14:19
    +11

    paypal dispute - get your refund, tell him if he organises a courier he can pick it up.

  • MadMaxBargainRoad on 22/08/2014 - 14:23
    +9

    You DO NOT have to pay anything:

    1.Send an official message to the seller demanding for full refund.
    2.If they ask you to post it back, tell them to send in a prepaid envelop.
    3.If they make up any excuse and refuse, simply contact eBay/Paypal

    There will be no ground for them to say no.

    I have bought a pair of s4i headphones from an US online shop. It turned out that they were counterfeit. I got my full refund back no question asked.

  • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2014 - 14:26
    -2

    which was claimed to be genuine.

    It's all in the wording: "genuine battery" for Apple Macbook, not "Genuine Apple battery".
    As long as it is actually a battery, then it's a "genuine battery".

    Unless the packaging and battery have Apple trademarks on it, it isn't counterfeit.

    • noyesmaybeok on 22/08/2014 - 14:44
      +11

      Ridiculous, they include the Apple battery model number "Genuine Battery A1382", with the word "Original" written on it, and also say "New Apple Battery". They're clearly aiming to deceive potential customers, it's not a case of the customer making incorrect assumptions.

      They're also in Australia so report them to Fair Trading.

      • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2014 - 15:36
        -5

        That doesn't make the battery counterfeit.

        The ad doesn't actually claim the battery is a genuine Apple battery, but you can argue that the ad is misleading.

        • ChickenTalon on 22/08/2014 - 15:48
          +12

          err.

          "Genuine Battery A1382"
          "New Apple Battery"
          "Part Number A1382"

          That's pretty clear they're making the claim that the battery is a genuine A1382. A reasonable person would assume that the battery is produced by Apple. How you could interpret that any other way is beyond me.

          Says "new apple battery". not "new apple compatable battery"

        • noyesmaybeok on 22/08/2014 - 16:03
          +11

          What next, a hotel with a Queen size bed that you arrive to find is 1.6m x 50cm? After all, it's "queen sized" and that's how big she is!

        • noyesmaybeok on 22/08/2014 - 16:16
          +6

          Thank god some people have common sense, can only imagine living in "thrift world" when it's fine to misrepresent everything and it's all good. I mean hey, the airline said "Sydney to Perth" - where did they mention you were ever going to be dropped off at an airport? You're getting kicked out at 30,000 feet.

          If a travel agent said they'd buy the ticket you wanted, where did they say they'd give it to you? They're only BUYING the ticket you want, not giving it to you. You just assumed that.

          Come on mate!

        • ChickenTalon on 22/08/2014 - 16:28
          +2

          @Thrift: Thrift, sorry mate I think you're on another planet or just trolling.

          "Battery" is how you would describe an after market battery. "genuine battery" is meaningless, and they've used that in conjuntion with the apple name and part number, so just about anyone reading it would assume that it's a genuine apple battery.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2014 - 16:41
          +2

          @rochow: You should take a holiday and experience "thrift world", otherwise known as "commonsense world".

          When buying something on eBay that has a high chance of being a knock-off, you carefully check the ad and confirm with the seller if need be.

          When Apple sell the replacement battery for $249 and a non-authorised eBay seller has it for $87, surely you have to think, "could this be a non-genuine Apple battery?"

          OK, let's check the feedback. Hmmm, 3 neutral and 1 negative. I wonder what they say?

          • "Received Genuine NEW not Genuine Apple Product" 30-May-14 13:21
          • "Battery had different serial # printed vs system reported. Not NEW nor Genuine" 01-Jul-14 02:55

          You still want to risk buying it? Go right ahead.

          Also, a counterfeit Apple battery would have Apple trademarks (Apple logo, "Designed by Apple in California", etc) on it and the packaging. From the image in the eBay ad, this looks to be a generic replacement battery.

        • [Deactivated] on 22/08/2014 - 16:50
          -1

          @rochow: Where do I say it's fine to misrepresent anything?

          I said it's not counterfeit if the battery or packaging did not have Apple trademarks on them. And then I said the ad can be argued as being misleading.

        • noyesmaybeok on 22/08/2014 - 17:15
          +2

          @Thrift:

          Dude… If you go to an Indian Restaurant and order Butter Chicken, to be presented with nothing other than a piece of chicken and a scoop of butter, that's somehow fine? And your fault for not Trip Advisor'ing first? "You should have known you were going to get ripped off", like that somehow makes it fine for the restaurant to do. The seller is misrepresenting the product, and the fact they've got to great lengths to try and be technical only makes it worse, they're knowingly aiming to trick people, it's not a genuine mistake that one of their product lines happens to not be what the seller expected to receive from their supplier.

          The fact he didn't research enough doesn't make it acceptable.

          I don't see where I mentioned it was or wasn't a counterfeit. The buyer said it was genuine. It is not genuine. Case closed.

        • ChickenTalon on 23/08/2014 - 11:03

          @rochow: wow. So many negs for this comment. I just don't understand why people are so happily to defend this ad. It's so clear that the ad is misleading.

          Perhaps the confusion is around thrift's use of the word counterfeit. Battery wouldn't be counterfeit. That is a different issue.

          But it certainly has not been described correctly. The ad has been written to intentionally mislead buyers into thinking that the battery is a genuine apple battery. law is very clear in this regard.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2014 - 12:10

          @ChickenTalon:
          No-one is defending this ad.

          Read the OP:

          Sending it interstate would cost me more, but for a counterfeit item, seems bitter-tasting…

          OP should not base his complaint on the item being counterfeit.
          OP should base his complaint on the ad being misleading.

          ACCC's page on Online auctions:

          Consumer rights for online auctions
          You can make a complaint and ask for a refund under the Australian Consumer Law if an Australian business selling through online auction, sold you a product that:

          • misled you about features of the product or hid costs or other details from you

          If you want to take down dodgy sellers, report the seller to Fair Trading, and actually follow it through.

          If you just want a genuine Apple battery for your client and not waste your time, be diligent when buying and pay particular attention to auction photos and the eBay seller's feedback.

          That same ACCC page on Online auctions:

          Using online auction sites
          …
          2. Check out the reputation of the site and the seller by reading feedback provided on the site and on other online forums.
          4. Shop around before buying to make sure you’re getting a good deal. Find out everything about the item–ask questions and ask for extra pictures and descriptions.

        • woz on 23/08/2014 - 13:41

          VERY interesting thread here. I've been very careful to give all posters the benefit of the doubt, and read ALL the posts, before commenting.

          Thrift's logic is absolutely correct and quite clever. However, it's also absolutely clear that as ChickenTalon has claimed, Thrift is trolling.

          Makes me wonder if we shouldn't all get a life rather than get caught in a troll thread.

          And to whoever negged rochow's comments - grow up. Trolling CAN be clever sometimes, but negging reasonable posts is just kindergarten-level trolling used by amateurs.

        • [Deactivated] on 23/08/2014 - 13:59
          -1

          @woz:
          And where exactly is the trolling?

          OP claimed the battery was counterfeit. OP is asking how to avoid having to pay return postage.

          If OP makes a PayPal claim saying the battery is counterfeit, therefore he can't post it back, the seller should have no trouble winning that dispute.

          If OP makes a PayPal Significantly Not As Described claim, PayPal, as per the PayPal User Agreement, will likely ask him to post it back before refunding, especially as the seller has already offered that.

          OP's remaining options are to go to Fair Trading regarding the misleading ad, or threaten to do so in the hopes the seller will give the refund without requiring the battery return.

          If the ad is so obviously misleading that it is against the law, then OP should be encouraged to take it to Fair Trading to stop the seller continuing to advertise like that.

        • woz on 23/08/2014 - 15:38
          +1

          @Thrift:

          Where's the trolling? To expend THAT many words highlighting the difference between counterfeit and non-genuine is trolling in the opinion of MORE than one poster in this thread.

          I wouldn't be the least surprised if you're the kind of poster that would get out a 16-thousand colour chart, and correctly point out that something isn't black, it's actually very extremely extraordinarily dark grey, particularly if viewed under certain lighting conditions.

          Being correct doesn't automatically mean you're also being helpful.

        • MrGareth on 23/08/2014 - 18:07

          @woz:

          I don't think Thrift's trolling, and I think he's right. Though the page is definitely misleading, when I read through the advert it's pretty obvious (to me at least) that's it's a non-genuine knock-off battery, trying to make it look like the real thing to the casual observer. That is a big no-no, but it's very very very common on Ebay.

          Lift Thrift said, it deliberately uses words like "genuine battery" meaning that yes, it's a battery. They do it on purpose and yes it's misleading.

          Basically, when it comes to batteries on ebay, it's always - you get what you pay for.

          That said, is the knock-off battery THAT bad, for the price?

        • cheng2008 on 23/08/2014 - 21:36

          @woz: Unfortunately it's required when the seller is intentionally being misleading and by your example, constantly hinting that he's selling something that's black when it's almost-black and without actually saying outright that it's black. If Thrift is pointing out that the seller was misleading but not outright lying, then like it or not you cannot ding the seller for lying, only for being misleading.

        • SirFlibbled on 24/08/2014 - 10:47

          @cheng2008:
          Which is sufficient under the ACL. The ACL if is for false OR misleading statements.

        • cheng2008 on 24/08/2014 - 19:17

          @SirFlibbled: Yup. I guess Thrift is just trying to make a distinction which doesn't really matter.

      • Helmuth on 22/08/2014 - 17:39
        +7

        An eBay seller got me once. "Genuine" was the brand name of the battery they sent me. Gotta be careful with that term.

  • ChickenTalon on 22/08/2014 - 15:55

    Paypal dispute 1st. Then if you have no luck and you've paid via CC do a chargeback. Unlikely paypal will help the seller fight this. Add is clearly missleading.

    • lakers1222 on 23/08/2014 - 16:59
      -7

      Doo youu evenn Englishh ?

  • OldBugger on 22/08/2014 - 17:56
    +2

    Had a slightly similar issue. Seller sold me a new phone. Turned out used.

    Seller claimed that he was sick and that I may have got a "wrong package". He agreed with refund and requested it sent back. I requested that a refund be made first and would like postage costs included to send it back, which is against (or was against) eBay guidelines at the time, so I knew I was pushing it. I stated that if no response was made in 1 day it would be escalated to PayPal. He didn't reply so I opened a PayPal case that worked away in the background so a third party to keep track of discussions.

    Then I wrote this:

    In regards to your comment on feedback, although unfortunate to have to return the item at our cost, the mistake is believed to be an honest one by your store and no negative feedback will be required. However, as advised, this will only be confirmed once a refund is given (and not before).

    His response:

    hI,
    I CONCUR , ABSOLUTELY NO PROBLEM , I AM ALSO HAPPY TO REFUND YOUR RETURN POSTAGE COSTS IN RETURN FOR POSITIVE FEEDBACK , AS WE HAVE DONE THE WRONG THING AND I REALLY FEEL BAD ABOUT THIS AND I DO NOT WANT YOU TO BE OUT OF POCKET , AND WE BOTH HAVE BEEN VERY FAIR AND ACTED IN A MATURE AND PROFESSIONAL MANNER IN TERMS OF RESOLVING THE MATTER, DON'T YOU AGREE

    Well, I got my refund and the postage costs refunded. The key I think is to keep it professional, friendly but assertive. I've kept to this strategy many times for problematic purchases and never had a bad outcome. Now where's some wood…

    • woz on 23/08/2014 - 13:46
      +2

      Great post. This definitely goes into my memory bank of how to cleverly use the system to NO-ONE's disadvantage. Pity eBay's guidelines aren't written with this type of resolution in mind.

  • mooney on 23/08/2014 - 00:08
    +3

    Having read the eBay advert it blows my mind that anyone would defend the eBay listing, it's not cleverly skirting the law. It's blatantly trying to present itself as a genuine apple product.

    A quick trip to ACCC website makes things abundantly clear:

    "It makes no difference whether the business intended to mislead you or not. If the overall impression left by a business’s advertisement, promotion, quotation, statement or other representation creates a misleading impression in your mind—such as to the price, value or the quality of any goods and services—then the behaviour is likely to breach the law."

    http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/misleading-claims-advertisi…

    • ChickenTalon on 23/08/2014 - 10:55
      +1

      Exactly

      Having the same model number. Using the words genuine battery in the listing are all designed to mislead and are illegal. It's very black and white. It's sad how many people just accept this.

      Even "battery for Apple" is misleading if the seller isn't clear that the battery is not made by Apple.

  • Boshait on 23/08/2014 - 09:58
    +2

    Not counterfeit, just misdescribed. It does call it a "New Apple battery" in the description. I reported it as a countefeit to eBay.

  • rambao9 on 23/08/2014 - 14:45

    If you raise a Paypal dispute claiming an item is 'counterfeit' they will need a documentation from an 'expert in the field' or from the manufacturer itself to prove that it is counterfeit.

    Nothing else matters to them, it doesn't even matter if the seller also admitted that they are selling counterfeit items (personal experience).

    Good luck!

    • ChickenTalon on 23/08/2014 - 19:48
      +1

      I had the same problem with a set of counterfeit DVDs. A $100 box set which was a great reproduction. But the DVDs arrived with different regions on them and wouldn't play properly.

      PayPal was an ass to deal with and they tried to make me post them back at my cost. Fast forward a bit of back and forth, wanted me to verify the fake with all of these:

      • expert in the field
      • lawyer
      • priest

      I used the magic words "charge back". Refund was processed the next day.

      I'd log the dispute as item not described.

  • eneloop on 23/08/2014 - 20:38

    Tell him he's dreaming

  • Randxyz123 on 23/08/2014 - 22:10

    Keep in mind that the 2011 MacBook Batteries weren't user replaceable so getting a "genuine" Apple branded battery is very hard.

    However the ad words are confusing. I'd ask him to send a prepaid envelope to you and you can ship it back to him that way.

    Make sure you send it registered and with tracking!!

  • mrdevil on 23/08/2014 - 22:50

    Counterfeit? Probably not - unless the actual item has trademarks etc on it.
    Misleading listing? Abso-bloody-lutely!!

    Normally a listing will have words like OEM or compatible when its a generic battery (and I've purchased many of generics for various laptops over the years) … this listing has:

    • "Original" and "Genuine" in the listing picture
    • "Genuine Battery A1382 for APPLE MacBook" in the listing title and description
    • 'FCC' and 'CE' compliance logos in the listing picture … something generic / cheapo Chinese batteries sometimes have printed on them, but I doubt they've actually been tested against
    • "New Apple battery" in the description section
  • centrelink on 24/08/2014 - 10:56

    Put the item back in its original packaging.
    Write RTS on the front and post it.

    It will go back to sender without paying anything..

  • SaberX on 24/08/2014 - 22:16

    Just sent one back as well from:

    http://batteryexpert.com.au/genuine-battery-for-samsung-gt-i…

    The paper looked less genuine and i had my original test. after a week of charges it became obvious. I just opened a paypal dispute straight away, freezes his money. From there bargaining tool.
    I even asked if it was genuine before i bought it , and in the end i insisted on him paying postage. gave me $1.50 postage lol, after which paypal deducte dlike -$0.34 cents, and left iwth $1.16. In end it came down to trust as he sent me back the full refund and i decided to just mail it for $0.70 - yes i know not legally proper to send lithiums via normal post but heck, i wasn't paying $7 for freight rate.

    End of story is put that paypal dispute in straight away and then you've got alot more leverage.

    Regardless my faith in buying any new batteries is shattered - just don't know what's genuine these days and im sure a heck of the % of them are fake china…

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