Police told me they were allowed to "break the rules". For Yogurberry.

Update: Hey guys, it's clear there is quite a divide in opinion on how things should have gone down. I've explained myself as best as I can and I have managed to convince some who were originally critical. I find myself having to repeat what I've already written down, so if you have genuine concern, make sure you read the entire comment thread before you have a go. I probably won't be replying anymore, it's really quite draining to have to repeat the same thing over and over!

Thanks for the support.

Also thanks Mods, for removing personal attacks.

Posted this on a forum and fb page, but thought it'd be useful here.

So… A little story from a couple of nights ago:

Was walking home one night, dark and wet, when I saw a police car indicate to turn right at a traffic light. Instead of looking ahead for oncoming traffic, he turns his head right around, as if to look at the cars that have just passed. "He must be looking to pull someone over" I thought. Instead, he pulls an illegal U-turn, no flashing lights or sirens, then parks the car a few metres up the road. Another unit turns around the corner and pulls up behind.

1 male officer from the 1st vehicle, and 1 male and 1 female officer from the 2nd get out of their cars and… head into YOGURBERRY (frozen dessert place, for those folks not into the asian dessert scene). "W T F" was my first thought.

I walk in, ask to speak to the male officer and say to him "Sir, you realise you just did an illegal U-turn at a traffic light". He gives me attitude and turns away, female officer rolls her eyes at me, and the 1st male officer then tells me "we are allowed to break the rules". I pointed out that they were not on a job and had no authority to break any laws, and they all simply said "yes, we do" and cited s305 (Australian Road Rules) as letting them "break the rules".

So I left and went back to the cars to take down the details. Male officer 1 comes out and tries to talk to me in a more receptive tone, saying "if you wanted more specific details, you could have just asked". I tell him "the only reason you're speaking to me now is because you know I'm taking your details down. You treated me with no respect and you just turned and dismissed me" blablabla.

I went home, looked up s305 (http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/…) and found that police are exempt from the road rules only if:

  • the driver is taking reasonable care, and
  • it is reasonable that the provision should not apply, and
  • if the vehicle is a motor vehicle that is moving-the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm.

I called the station manager that night and explained everything. His first reaction was a big "Oh………… This is not good"
I told him I was disappointed because I had the courtesy to let the office know he broke a law, and they all gave me attitude, tried to mislead me with a legal reference and essentially tried to bully me to go away.

The station manager called me back last night after he talked to all the officers. He said "it's not on" that they did what they did, spoke to me about how police need the public support and if they are to enforce the laws, they need to abide by them too. I left it up to him to figure out the proper disciplinary action, but I told him I wanted a personal apology from that 1st officer. Pfft, unlikely that I'll get one!

Moral of the story is: everyone is subject to the same laws, a police officer is not exempt. Don't let yourself be bullied. Know the laws and know your rights.

Hope this info proves handy for someone in the future.


Power User: Just a reminder that comments need to be civil as per the commenting guidelines

closed Comments

  • +2

    The sad case is, many people change completely and become very aggressive when driving a car. No respect for other people.

    Also, many people become obsessed with power when wearing a uniform (police, security etc).

    A normal person driving a car, 'dressed' in a police uniform, what can you expect?

    The essence of the story is - Police are employed to carry out the law, not to break it…

  • -4

    Let's hope you never have the need to call the cops and if you do the Yogurberry cops don't turn up to save you.

    • +2

      Lets hope you don't need to rely on the cops at all, we rang in for a robbery in progress a few doors down took them a couple of hours the get here. The station is about 5 minutes drive from us.

    • +3

      If that were to ever actually happen, then the scumbags that willfully neglect their duty due to personal grievances have absolutely no right being in the police force in the first place.

  • OP, you did the right thing, for sure. It is people like you make Australia a great country. Good On You!

  • -1

    Get a life people. It's not like jahja helped the homeless or saved the world. Imagine you took an extra 10 minutes for lunch, someone saw your uniform and told your boss. Snap out of it. Jesus has not landed on earth. Being Australian is taking a sickie.

    • +5

      That's right, my man. I didn't help a homeless person nor did I save a baby from a two storey fall.

      If you only do anything to gain recognition, that's up to you. But I did what I did because I was standing up for myself and other people, but I never asked for recognition. I only posted my story so that others would be informed.

      • That cops are humans too. Nice story.

    • +2

      Everyone knows that police break the rules everyday but jahja did what not many other people would have done. He told them! Well done.

  • +1

    Also, in some traffic intersections it is legal to do a U-turn because it is safe. In some intersections it is illegal to do a U-turn because it is dangerous. Wish you had a dash cam….

    • The law is pretty black and white. It is illegal to do a u-turn at a traffic light, unless there is a sign that explicitly states a u-turn is allowed.

      But yep, I get what you're trying to say.

      • I take it that you have never broken the road rules.

        • Harryzee, I struggle to find the connection between your argument and me never breaking a law. Care to explain?

        • -7

          @JahjaMan: you should turn yourself in if you break the law. You seem to be a good Samaritan and a super hero.

        • +4

          Again, as I've explained so many times - I wasn't looking for the officer to be booked or anything similar.

          Actually, I've explained it enough times, I don't feel I need to rephrase it for your benefit.

    • 40 Making a U-turn at an intersection with traffic lights

      A driver must not make a U-turn at an intersection with traffic lights unless there is a U-turn permitted sign at the intersection.

  • -4

    You should all join the cops. You seem to be experts in law and road rules. I really need to leave the forums. Back to the bargains. Adios

    • +3

      Just because an individual is simply a member of the public and not a police officer, does not mean he/she should not be aware of the laws that govern him/her.
      It seems to me you are fine with remaining ignorant of the law and simply accept what is told of you.

  • -3

    """I walk in, ask to speak to the male officer and say to him""""

    Who did u ask?

    What if the scenario was this.

    Cop receives a call, Robbery in progress at Yoghurtberry, Hostage situation, Police then proceed with caution, and pull into youghurtHQ, they have just about got everything under control, and in comes Citizen Kane, "Can I speak to the male officer"

    Let me guess OP, before proceeding you checked that there wasn't a robbery in progress.

    • +2

      They were already filling up their cups…

      Yes. I checked :)

    • +2

      damn some people are incredible, fine ill come down to your level…

      what if there was 3 babys and a unicorn that the cop ran over and killed while doing the illegal u turn?

  • +2

    "Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if" "the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm." This last condition "does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable not to display the light or sound the alarm" - the next sentence.

    He's pulling over for a quick snack between calls. You said nothing about him interrupting traffic, so to me it sounds reasonable to leave the lights off.

    If his day was anything like the guys I talk to, he was four hours in and had already dealt with several woman/child beating wastes of life. He wanted a quick break to come back to reality before the next call. You killed his moment by calling him out. Worst still, even after looking it up and quoting it, you ignore the sentence proving you wrong and complain to everyone.

    Finally, the guy's a cop. It's not his job to know the law backwards. That’s for lawyers, magistrates and judges.

    You told it to the man. You're a legend mate.

    • So you are saying that it is reasonable, in the circumstances that he wants to park his police vehicle right outside Yogurberry, that he does not display the light or siren? Good luck trying to argue that.

      And (1)(b) is a sub-rule. It is a continuation of (1)(a) (as can be denoted by the "and" between (1)(a) and (1)(b)) and therefore conditions under (1)(a) must also be satisfied. That is, (1)(a)(ii) stating it was reasonable that the provision should not apply, will not satisfied.

      Proving me wrong, sorry mate, not at all.

      • +4

        (1)(a)(i) It was a safe turn

        (1)(a)(ii) He's an on duty police officer between calls (probably already received a call, but needs a quick break)

        (1)(b) Voided by (2) as it was not an emergency, nor was it dangerous

        YES THERE IS A (2)

        http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/nsw/consol_reg/rr2008104/…

        If you're going to post a link to prove your point, you should actually read it.


        You can makes everyone's life worse because you think you are right

        or

        You can try to make a bloke doing a rubbish job's day a little better

        • -1

          You're pretty much saying:

          It was reasonable for a provision of the Road Rules Act NOT to apply because the officer wanted to park RIGHT in front of Yogurberry, in his full police uniform and in his police vehicle, without regard for the low visibility, low light, wet road conditions and the 3 lane wide road with which he had just crossed, in a pedestrian heavy area, right next to a pub, and at the same intersection so many other cars dangerously conduct the same manoeuvre on a daily basis

          ?

        • Did you even read (2)?

          Does not mention anything about it not applying because it wasn't an emergency or wasn't dangerous.

          Only says it does not apply if it is reasonable not to display the light or sound.

          (2) Subrule (1) (b) does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable:
          (a) not to display the light or sound the alarm

          Ergo, my bolded statement about reasonability applies.

        • @JahjaMan:

          Safe/unsafe:

          Mate, you seem upfront and honest. If you believed the cop's U-turn was unsafe you would have said it at the start. Remember, cop's do advanced driving, traffic and road accident response courses. And you've said other people do U-turns here in heavier traffic, in more discrete cars, without causing accidents.

          Subrule (2):

          Quoted from my first post -

          "Rules does not apply to the driver of a police vehicle if" "the vehicle is displaying a blue or red flashing light or sounding an alarm." This last condition "does not apply to the driver if, in the circumstances, it is reasonable not to display the light or sound the alarm" - subrule (2), the exception, is bolded.

          As to all the reasonable’s:

          The guy is an on-duty police officer between calls grabbing a snack. People need to eat. He can't put a cooler in his cruiser. And us tax payers are paying him to protect us, not to waste time driving around the block looking for a parking space.

          Provisions applying:

          In one case provision (1)(b) applies. In another case provision (2). If you’re not driving a police vehicle, none of these provisions apply
          It's pretty simple logic. You said you understand this law so I have no idea why you bolded a whole paragraph in anger.

  • +2

    I bet they used their Discount Suits to get free Yogurberry too.

  • +1

    lol interesting timing of this article being published online…

    http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-08-22/dozens-of-nsw-police-s…

    lol

    • Mr Shoebridge asked Mr Scipione: "When only a handful, 21 per cent, of the PCA offences were low-range PCA; the great majority, 79 per cent, were mid or high-range PCA. You gave that answer seeking to mislead and minimise the extent of the criminal convictions, did you not?"

      Mr Scipione replied: "Absolutely not. I refute that. It is rude to suggest I would do that to minimise or hide because that is not the way I operate."

      so why did you lie about it if it wasnt to minimise and mislead? and this is the f***ing police commissioner…… lying sack of ****

      when the corruption, lies and misleading goes all the way to the top of the chain like this how is it ever going to get any better in this country? and they expect the general public to do as they say not as they do?

  • +1

    I'm pretty sure that if they weren't cops, OP would've been beaten up like a sand bag! Then more beating for demanding an apology.

  • -6

    I don't care if this post gets negged 10000 times like everyone else's.

    OP, get a life. The police have an extremely tough job and don't need people like you making their lives more difficult.

    Who cares if they perform illegal upturns, slightly speed etc. They take advanced driving courses and deal with enough crap during their 12h shift.

    I DOUBT you would have gone up and given ANYONE else crap and confronted them because they would have punched you in the face.

    • +1

      Who cares if they perform illegal upturns, slightly speed etc. They take advanced driving courses

      i have not only done advanced driving courses but i also have a string of awards for my driving, state championships and the like. i can outdrive probably every cop on the force, does this mean i can simply ignore any road rule i like because my driving is also at a higher level than pretty much everyone else?

      as soon as you apply your mindless justifications into the real world they fall completely flat as baseless and stupid. you just can not justify pigs being "above the law" because they simply are not. they are meantto be there to uphold the law not make it and break it as they personally see fit…

      • +1

        you sound like you have done time Fangio.

  • +2

    In America, you probably would have been arrested!

    • +3

      Arrested? Don't you mean had a full clip unloaded into your face?

      • +1

        Or perhaps getting yelled at while being forced to the ground for no reason then being cuffed!

  • -2

    Hope the OP felt proud after his little power trip.
    Seriously, got better things to do with my time. Police have a tough enough job as it is.

  • +3

    Congratulations. Your now a target ;)

  • +2

    I told my little kids this story last night, put them straight to sleep
    A great fairy tale.

  • I sure hope that this thread is not a microcosm of society.

  • +7

    The last time I tried to reason with a young officer politely, he threaten me with a fist and verbally ask if I wanted a one to one fight, while his partner who's sitting beside him, looked away and pretend he's alone. I am sure he knows trouble is brewing. Unfortunately I am thin and mickey looking so I can only suck it up. If I had a dashcam that recorded what he did with his car he would have some explaining to do to keep his job. Needless to say, I have dashcam in all my cars now.

  • -7

    My question to all you anonymous internet heroes and tough guys is this. You all bag police but I don't see any one criticising paramedics and fire fighters who do exactly the same thing every single day. Why are they any different to police?

    Some of you say that all police are corrupt or 99% corrupt. Where is you evidence to back up your allegations? Why haven't you reported the corruption to your State's anti corruption agencies? You're all high and mighty hiding behind a keyboard but you don't do anything about the alleged corruption. All our emergency workers and ADF personnel should be given 100% support for the work they do. Unlike all of you spineless individuals who only have to worry about a paper cut or a cold latte cannot even imagine what our police, firefighters, paramedics and soldiers have to deal with every single day.

    Again I say that next time you find yourselves in trouble or need police assistance in a REAL emergency, don't call them. Ring a criminal.

    Mod: Removed Personal Attack

    • +8

      I'd hate to live in a society where you would write the rules. Without people like the OP the Police would be able to get away with anything. Giving 100% support to a specific group of people does not mean we shouldn't question them when they do something wrong.

    • +2

      i have never seen a paramedic or fire fighter do an illegal action, when there is an emergency call they can break the law, but i have never seen one do so when there was no emergency, not saying it doesn't happen but i have never seen it but i have seen the police break the law hundreds of times. They don't compare
      No one deserves 100% support, if there are bad police in the force, those doing wrong, do not deserve support
      I find you rude for calling him a knob, the police work because of our money we pay in tax, we have the right to question anything they do. We do live in a free country, don't we

  • +5

    Not much to add that hasn't been said but I just wanted to tell you well done.

  • +1

    Pfft. First world problem.

  • Will a moderator please end this complete and total waste of time topic? Thanks.

    • +4

      why? caus the majority disagree with you and your poorly thought out points? and people find it easy to disprove you?

      • Because you're all precious and can't find anything better to do with your time except attack a group of people of the most trivial and insignificant thing as a U-Turn and being spoken to rudely.

        GE T O V E R I T!!!!!!!!!!

        • Let's try and stay on-topic and refrain from personally attacking each other.

        • +4

          Many people here are passionate about voicing their opinions (rightfully so), and as a result, there have been several valuable points raised by both sides.

          I don't consider that a waste of time. Quite the contrary.

        • @neil:

          Well close this down. It's a waste of space.

        • +2

          @001525:

          The irony is almost palpable.

      • +1

        My poorly thought out points?

        A person starts a topic about nothing and all of a sudden every fool comes out of the woodwork for another cop bashing.

        Who bloody cares about the U-Turn or the yoghurt. Don't stick your nose in where it doesn't belong and you won't get offended. Simple for some but not for most it seems.

        If he was upset about being spoken to rudely then he shouldn't have meddled in something that was no business of his whatsoever.

        How would you feel if you're having dinner and some peanut interrupts you and alleges you did an illegal U-Turn to get to the restaurant.

        Seriously, if people get upset about something as insignificant as a U-Turn then you have very sad and pathetic lives.

        Cheerio.

        • -3

          for another cop bashing.

          at least for once its not the filth doing the bashing… then again no one here is in handcuffs so i guess they wouldnt have the balls would they

          Who bloody cares about the U-Turn or the yoghurt.

          going by this thread, a majority care about pigs tho break the same laws which there only job is simply to uphold. cops broke the law, just the same as any one else would if they did the same thing there the only real difference is that pigs should know better and be held to a higher level as a "professional" than your average punter

          How would you feel if you're having dinner and some peanut interrupts you and alleges informs you did an illegal U-Turn to get to the restaurant.

          i dont make illegal u turns but you can be sure that the nearest peanut in blue would be happy to fine me and possibly take my licence away for exactly the same thing.

          again, your wrong on every level

        • +1

          LOL. This is like a Seinfeld episode. A story about nothing.

        • @nosdan:
          Are you a crim?. Do they have internet in jail? You keep referring to them as pigs. The lack of respect is why the world is in the mess it's in.

        • -3

          LOL. This is like a Seinfeld episode. A story about nothing.

          obviously only talking about your own posts huh. all you have said is nothing worthwhile… its why you have got so many negs on all of your comments

          Are you a crim?. Do they have internet in jail?

          sorry wouldnt have a clue, but why the need to take it to a personal level? butthurt over no one liking your stupid comments above? or are you also one of the corrupt pigs as well?

          You keep referring to them as pigs.

          actually i have often used "filth" as well in this thread, but thanks for caring enough to notice :)

          The lack of respect is why the world is in the mess it's in.

          you mean the pigs lack of respect for the laws they are ment to be upholding? and the "do as i say not as i do" mentality of both pigs and politicians alike? yea that is a big part of the problem i must agree

        • +4

          @nosdan:

          My uncle was what you refer to as a "pig". He died chasing a man who had committed an armed robbery where a gun was placed against the forehead of the shop owner who collapsed and died as a result of a heart attack from the trauma.

          My uncle's son later became a police officer ("pig") to follow in his dad's footsteps. He went to a domestic violence incident. The woman and child were beaten up severely. The offender stabbed my cousin in his neck and face which resulted in him losing his life. So, two more "pigs" were taken off the earth which I'm sure will put a smile on your face.

          Mod: Removed Personal Attack It's always the fault of the police that people are doing armed robberies to support a drug habit. And by the way, police don't take your licence away from you. You do that all on your own.

          Going back to the original topic of the U-Turn, I absolutely guarantee without any doubt that all you cop bashers out there would do exactly the same thing if you were in their job. HYPOCRITES!

  • +4

    Quite interesting to see how polarising this topic is.

  • OzBargain is definitely, interesting.

  • +1

    F T P.

  • +3

    Well, if we never hear from you again Jahjaman, we thank you for taking the hit from the cops.

  • +5

    You said… "it's really quite draining to have to repeat the same thing over and over!"

    JahjaMan… Your drained and this is just a comment forum… Hopefully you feel a little more compassion for the Police who have to deal everyday with real life Crime's & Druggies how draining do you think that would be.

    Next time buy them the Yogurberry and thank them for the great job they do.

  • +5

    As a police officer you will swear to uphold the law. In other words, you should do everything you can to not break the law as a police officer.

    As a private citizen, you have not sworn to uphold the law, yes, we often break the law and if a quota chasing officer sees you, you will get a fine.

  • +6

    Congrats OP, more people need to speak up like you did. I have a lot of respect for police on the whole and it therefore upsets me when I see or hear about them doing stuff like this when they should be role models. Hopefully it's the minority.

    I saw similarly disappointing behavior from police in leederville WA a few months ago, albeit not as bad. There was a man sitting in his car in a road carpark, parked but with the engine running. The car in the park in front of him drove off, and a police car pulled up behind him. The police car obviously wanted him to drive forward so they didn't have to reverse parallel park between two cars, so started honking the horn continuously. It went on for 5 mins and the car eventually moved forward, then the driver got out and angrily gestured to the mobile phone he was holding to his ear. So the police, because they were lazy, honked incessantly to intimidate him (which is not a legal use of the horn, but more importantly disappointed me because it's an abuse of power), forcing him to break the law by driving while talking on the phone. They had no shame because they did it in a busy area where lots of pedestrians and people in cafes could see and of course looked to see what the noise was about.

    The police then got out of their car and walked into the coffee shop I was in. I should have said something but I was too scared!

    If some random member of the public did what the police did, I would just shrug and think 'how rude'. The fact that they're police makes me expect better behavior which is a mark of the respect I have for their profession. People who say the OP was being petty and should be thanking them for fighting crime are missing that point.

  • +1

    Hooray for being a nanny state.

    Cops are humans too personally i think they have a hard enough time as it is. Sure its not always tough work but i'd like to know what other people here would be willing to work in the police force.

    I'm not saying its a good thing for cops to be breaking the rules, but if you are going to be sitting on your high horse i hope you are a perfect soul who has NEVER EVER broken a single rule. Why should we expect you to be any different if you are reporting people for offences and enforcing the law like they are.

    If a cop booked everyone for speeding exactly 1 kph over the limit every time, yay walking or some other minor thing (or what you consider to be minor) im sure you'd be calling them SOBs.

    • +3

      I don't think anyone here who agreed with the OP are pretending that we're all perfect. We break the law and get caught and we get called on it in the form of a fine. This particular cop got caught breaking the law and the OP had the courage to call them on it. I don't think any profession should be exempt from being called out when they break the law, especially the police who are so quick to dish out the fines if one of us did the same.

  • +2

    Once the organs were talking amongst each other. The brain says 'I'm the best. I control what you do." The heart says "No I am the best. Without me pumping, you are dead." The eyes say,"No. I'm the best. Without me, you can't see and forever in darkness." and so and so with the other organs. At last, the Ahole says," I'm the best." Everyone laugh at him and in disbelief. The Ahole was very upset. So a week goes by, the brain starts feeling sick, the heart is weakened, the eyes turn yellow…What's going on? The Ahole was so upset and keeps it closed. The toxic in the body built up and the organs start failing. Everyone said to Ahole "Please forgive us. you are the best."

    We live in a society where everyone is doing a bit. There are exceptions, numbs and bumbs…as part of life. Hope they are benign and not malignant.

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