Fine and Learner license suspension

Ldileme on 28/04/2014 - 17:24

hey guys,

I am from Brazil and I've been living in Australia since September last year as a Permanent Resident. I have been driving since then with my driver license from Brazil, which I have for over 14 years now.

At the beginning of April I made the DKT test and booked my driving test to 30th of April, due to lack of schedule.

Last Friday I was driving my son to the hospital (he is diabetic) because he was not feeling very well, and I got pulled over on my way to the hospital by the police. The officer asked my license and I gave him my Brazilian License Driver and asked me to do the breath test. After that he asked me if I was a Permanent Resident and I said yes. Then he asked me when my visa had been granted. I told him my visa has been granted May last year, but I was in Australia for 6 months. He told me I was not allowed to drive with my driver license from Brazil anymore, so I gave him my Learner Driver License, because as my wife's been living here for less than 3 months I though she could be my "supervisor".

After that the officer took my Learner license, suspended it and gave me a fine of AU$776. I tried to explain him that I got a wrong information in RMS and that I was in an emergency with my son, but he did not want to listen to me.

I know I can try to Review this fine, but am I be able to Review the suspension he gave me?

Also, my Driving test was booked for this Wednesday, do you know if I will be able to do the test or will I need to re-schedule it?

I am kind of lost with this situation and I do not know what to do.

Thank you very much!

Diego

Automotive

Comments

  • pyramid on 28/04/2014 - 17:51
    +32

    I have sympathy with your son but not with you.

    You were granted PR visa in last May and you allowed to get Vic license in first 6 months of your PR but you are driving illegally since last 4-5 months. You broke the law and you fined. Sorry for harsh words but its truth.

    • BobD on 29/04/2014 - 08:04
      +6

      According to his profile Diego lives in Sydney. Your incorrect comment about his location has affected many other comments also from people who did not read his profile. Anyone like to adjust their comments?

      • bobz79 on 29/04/2014 - 10:08
        +14

        6 months is for VIC, in NSW you can drive only for '3 months' with a foreign license. So within three months you should get an NSW license

        "You are allowed to drive or ride in NSW on a current overseas licence for up to three months, once you have taken up residency in NSW.

        After three months, you MUST obtain a NSW licence to continue driving or riding"

        http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/licensing/newtonsw/international_d…

  • PissLUR on 28/04/2014 - 17:54
    +5

    I dont think its a valid reason to be illegally driving on the road.

    There are other options.
    1. your wife could drive.
    2. call a cab
    3. call an ambulance.

    Thanks the police for keeping the road to be a safer place.

    There is no way that you can get this fine reversed. You are 100% at fault!
    Even if you have a supervisor in the car, did you use the L plates?

    • plmko on 28/04/2014 - 18:02
      +49

      I don't know how fining a man under technicalities is supposed make the road a safer place.

      Sure I guess this will add to the statistics of police work so they can gloat about the work they've been doing and then get bigger budgets.

      • zeomega on 29/04/2014 - 11:19
        +2

        Rules will be rules. They are set in place to ensure the safety of the people.

        There are reasons why not all countries can convert their licence over to aussie without a retest, its to allow them to acclimatize/learn local driving conditions/rules.

        Imagine a person, let's call him X, has been driving for the last 20 years, never been in an accident,never been caught for speeding, EXTREMELY safe driver etc. X migrates to Australia, but does that make him a safe driver here?

        Different countries have different rules. Just for the sake of argument, in country where X is from, U-turns are allowed anywhere with a green arrow. He comes over, chucks a U-turn and crashes into another car due to the differences in green arrows as in aussie filter lane traffic lights can go green as well.

        Sure he may have been driving here for ages using an international lisc etc, but at the end of the day, it's really meant for safety. The only way is for laws to be set in place and rules to be followed.

        There is a reason why places like Japan, Singapore,etc are the way they are. Cause people respect the rules and laws. Can you imagine the haphazardness if no one did?

        • kwaker on 30/04/2014 - 10:58
          +11

          Then why are they allow him to drive for several months prior?your logic is flawed

        • EnALup on 30/04/2014 - 11:26
          +3

          Govt. cannot track each individual. When people get PR, they are given a welcome kit having the details on living in Australia and details on getting registered to centrelink, medicare and driving licence.

          Each skilled migrant comes after clearing IELTS with high bands at least if not his/her spouse.

          You can drive a car without driving licence through out your life if you are not caught sooner or later. That does not mean police allow that.

        • jacklynhydejr on 30/04/2014 - 21:28
          +6

          Where's this 'welcome kit' you speak of? I'm gonna demand my $3500 fee back as I never got one. If only there was a coupon code for that whopper!

        • zeomega on 01/05/2014 - 22:57
          +1

          Can you imagine what will happen to the tourism economy if you do not allow people from overseas to drive here? They are largely covered by the rental company's insurance.

          I know it is a loophole, but that is prolly one of the reasons for allowing people from overseas to drive locally.

        • EnALup on 02/05/2014 - 09:52

          Its been long mate, but it used to say 'Living in Australia' in an email or print. You can get that when you register in Centrelink as well.

      • JepunK on 01/05/2014 - 10:13

        hahaha yes i think he's a bit delirious….

      • wolffram on 03/05/2014 - 19:56

        Now there's an intelligent contribution to the conversation….

    • itajac on 28/04/2014 - 18:51

      Not to excuse him but he does have previous experience driving 14 yrs on the road and surely more than 2 yrs here in Australia ( on his temporary visa), it is just a technicality. Never fear the roads are safe again,lol :P

      • lplau on 29/04/2014 - 08:38
        +7

        Not always the case, how do you differentiate true 14yrs to fake 14yrs.
        He could have bought the licence in Brazil for all we know without going through any of the tests.
        Different road rules, different driving conditions etc.

        Its not just a technicality, its where should we draw the line of let him go or fine him, if we let 1 of them go, do we let them all go? May as well abolish the need to have a licence if we do that.

        I've seen some pretty amateur drivers on the road, I know of some pretty amateur drivers on the road, and they say they have had their licence for 10yrs. LOL!

        There is no excuse for driving without a valid licence. Its like saying "Oh I will drive with a expired licence but I have had my licence for 15yrs before it got expired, that means I have enough experience to drive!"

        There is PLENTY of alternatives to driving, you can call an ambulance if its an emergency, take a taxi or public transport.

        • kwaker on 29/04/2014 - 10:23
          +4

          Regardless he was legal for 2 months of driving already and now he is not suddenly worse than he was then so its just a technicality its got nothing to do with his driving skills

        • itajac on 29/04/2014 - 18:27
          +5

          Just saying,cause my husband went through a similar issue when he arrived in Australia from South America and he is an excellent driver, better than myself and a lot of people I know that live here and have had their license issued in Vic.It can be confusing as to the laws that apply for overseas issued licenses,if you truly want to standardize the system to make it safer, than don't allow people who have overseas licenses to drive in Australia at all ,unless they have had some sort of testing prior or allow them to have a drivers test even with a temporary visa. My sister in law is here from overseas and can drive using her overseas license because she is not a resident she doesn't need any testing.Can't get tested because she is not a PR.Fines will be issued but let's get to the core of the problem and fix it.

        • youknow on 02/05/2014 - 10:50
          +2

          Even if you were an Australian citizen, and had your licence for 20 years. If it expired (and you didn't bother renewing), and you were caught driving, then you would get a fine. You would deserve that fine, and it's not just a technicality. Rules are rules. It doesn't matter how good a driver you are, or where you are from, if you don't obey the rules, then you pay the price.

        • itajac on 02/05/2014 - 11:55

          I concur on him deserving to get a fine but a suspension is very harsh, especially because it is so important to have a current license here in Australia as the public transport system could be better.Having a sick child with diabetes, is no picnic unless you can transport them to the doctors or ED. BTW my husband never had a fine or did the wrong thing whilst driving on his overseas license, even without knowing the road rules and I wasn't much help as I didn't drive myself back then. Just think a little empathy could have helped the current situation, no one is perfect we all make mistakes and have lapses of judgement at times.

        • one man clan on 02/05/2014 - 11:56
          +1

          Unless (as analogous to this case) the RMS told you that you didn't need to renew your licence after it had expired because you'd been driving for over 20 years.

  • SavatteDodo on 28/04/2014 - 17:56
    +5

    You should have gone for the test before the first 6 months.

    "because as my wife's been living here for less than 3 months I though she could be my "supervisor"

    International License holders cannot act as "supervisor".

    • polkadots610 on 28/04/2014 - 22:36
      +5

      VicRoad's website states:
      The supervising driver must be an experienced driver who holds:
      - a current Victorian full (not probationary) driver licence which authorises the person to drive that motor vehicle, or
      - a current interstate or overseas (not probationary or provisional) driver licence in English (or with an English Translation or International Driving Permit) for the category of motor vehicle being driven by the learner driver.

      So international license holders can act as a supervising driver?

      • regenade on 30/04/2014 - 03:53
        -6

        Mr sick varun please answer, dont hide ! Insufficient and incorrect information , dont post if you are not sure. That VicRoads page was just 2 seconds away and you took 2 minutes to write up and post.

        • polkadots610 on 30/04/2014 - 08:29
          +1

          As stated by Baysew below, the OP is from NSW. So actually, my above quote from the VicRoads website was irrelevant to OP's case.

        • EnALup on 30/04/2014 - 12:08
          +1

          Mr. Grenade, Please don't change or troll user names unless you know them personally ;)
          I could see the name: varunsic

        • SavatteDodo on 01/05/2014 - 09:00
          +1

          Take that renegade.

          Thanks Polkadots610 and Gaggy.

          I wonder where i was hiding.

  • tonyjzx on 28/04/2014 - 17:58
    +2

    vicroads is a pain in the ass, they wont let you off

  • [Deactivated] on 28/04/2014 - 18:06
    +2

    You broke the law now you suffer the consequences. I don't really see why you posted this and how we can help you.

  • ukmark on 28/04/2014 - 18:09
    +39

    Have some sympathy guys. Unless you have been in this situation, you don't know how often they change these laws and how grey they can be.

    When I got my NSW licence, I had to do the computer test but not the driving test, due to having held a UK licence for over 10 years. Now the computer test is not required in the same situation.

    Also, the new Blood Alcohol Content (BAC) laws for P plater drivers changed just after I got my Aus licence. On my licence it listed .02 as my allowed BAC - but the P plater BAC changed to 0 soon afterwards. I contacted the RTA to see if I was subject to a 0, .02 or .05 BAC - as I was not required to display P Plates. The response I got, after waiting for 3 months and multiple requests, we don't have an answer as there is nothing in the new laws that says one way or the other!
    Now, in the same situation, the time you have held a UK licence counts the same as Aus. So my BAC would have been .05 from day 1 of obtaining the Aus licence.

    If the OP is from Brazil, English will not be his first language - and interpretation of these laws is sometimes hard for people from English speaking countries.

    My advice OP is to be nice to VicRoads and ask them if you can do your test still, and if not when you will be able to. If there is an appeals process, explain your situation and the fact you were booked in for a driving test. Make it clear that you did not mean to break the law, and you failed to check that the information given to you was correct. Above all else, be nice and do not get angry.

    Good luck.

    • Scrooge McDuck on 29/04/2014 - 10:47
      +10

      Unless you have been in this situation,

      My car was written off owing to a woman driving on a foreign license who was a permanent resident.

      Having been on the other end of this situation I'm glad the Police are taking these menaces off the roads. Allowing foreigners to drive on certain foreign licenses is a courtesy which shouldn't be abused. As we drive on the left conversely to most other countries (including Brazil) and have different rules, standards and conditions, passing Australian driving tests is necessary to drive safely in Australia.

      I'm sorry to hear about your son OP and I hope he gets well soon but please respect state and federal laws.

      • wozz on 30/04/2014 - 17:49
        +1

        Yes I agree they are menaces.
        Can pretty much guarantee anyone who writes off someone elses car obviously is driving on a foreign license.

        Australians never crash or write other peoples cars off.

        ….

        I don't disagree that he should have been taken off the road, but basing your opinion on one crash (and therefore all foreign drivers are crap?)…

        • Scrooge McDuck on 01/05/2014 - 00:24

          Your English comprehension and writing skills are appalling. Reread my post a few more times.

        • wozz on 01/05/2014 - 13:20

          Ahh yes got it my mistake. I was focusing too much on the first paragraph, but only part of it. Sorry sir, I retract my comments. Please forgive my writing via phone though

      • Amaris on 30/04/2014 - 18:31

        Did you know that drivers from most European countries and the USA do not need to pass the knowledge test or the practical test? They can get a NSW licence over the counter the day they get off the boat without a single day's driving on our roads.
        Most of them also drive on the wrong side of the road and have different standards and conditions. Do you think this is a good idea or is it OK as they are from the first world??

        • 01011010 on 01/05/2014 - 12:27

          Where abouts are you getting this information from?

        • paul11 on 03/05/2014 - 09:30
          +1

          Did you know that drivers from most European countries and the USA do not need to pass the knowledge test or the practical test?

          I can confirm this is true. I came from US in Sep, last year. Got my full license over the counter in Oct. without any tests. In December, I read the road rules book, because things are so different here. Finally bought a car in March this year.

        • Franconian on 03/05/2014 - 15:44
          +1

          I am originally from Germany and did not have to do any tests in order to get an Aussie licence.
          In Germany we have to attend compulsory theory classes and drive with an official driving school teacher compulsory practical lessons. My partner is just going through the Australian licence procedure and in my opinion it's a joke.

          Any European licence also permits you to drive in the UK without any further tests to drive on the wrong side of the road.
          Definitely no big deal.

    • zeomega on 29/04/2014 - 17:52
      +3

      If the OP is from Brazil, English will not be his first language - and interpretation of these laws is sometimes hard for people from English speaking countries.

      His command of english seams good enough to be able to comprehend the rules. Heck if he had to pass his IELTS, i don't see how he can't understand the rules.

  • tonyjzx on 28/04/2014 - 18:31
    +5

    ignorance of the law isnt a defence

    that's their attitude

    • johnno07 on 28/04/2014 - 21:53
      +4

      And it should be yours too.

    • lplau on 29/04/2014 - 08:41

      I stabbed somebody however I didn't know the knife was sharp, therefore I should be let off.

      • ProjectZero on 29/04/2014 - 09:26
        +4

        lol that's ignorance… not ignorance of the law

        • lplau on 29/04/2014 - 09:46

          I didn't know you cannot kill somebody.

        • elf888 on 29/04/2014 - 11:53
          +2

          LOL. Everybody need to complete a law degree then!

  • Almost Banned on 28/04/2014 - 19:13
    +3

    While I am not very sympathetic there is a potential defence of necessity available to you for this incident - but you would need to establish the necessary elements. So if you were genuinely in an emergency situation and HAD to rush your child to the hospital, you might have something. Here's a good discussion of it http://www.austlii.edu.au/au/cases/sa/SASC/2007/411.html
    If you want to fight it - see a lawyer.

  • dileme on 28/04/2014 - 19:17
    +5

    hey guys,

    Thank you for your help. I did not mean to break any law!

    I really thought my wife could act as a supervisor, I just got a wrong information!

    Besides that I was taking my son to the hospital! The only reason I didn't make the driving test is because there was no schedule for the whole month.

    Diego

    • lolmao on 29/04/2014 - 17:55
      +1

      Did you have L plates displayed?
      No schedule for the month is no excuse.. Should have taken the test at least 3 months ago.

  • slow on 28/04/2014 - 20:35
    +2

    When I immigrated to AU (Melbourne) with an international drivers license I was able to do the learners and full test on the same day and drive immediately without L or P plates - is that no longer the case??

    • SavatteDodo on 28/04/2014 - 20:54
      +3

      Still the same. You just need to book'em.

  • jzdhgkd on 28/04/2014 - 21:39
    +5

    Ouch that's pretty harsh considering you had your son with you!

    Consider contacting Vic legal aid's free services:

    https://www.legalaid.vic.gov.au/get-legal-services-and-advic…

    If you feel your English may not be up to scratch to discuss legal issues, this is what they recommend:

    "If your language is not listed here [Portugese], phone the Translating and Interpreting Service on 131 450 and ask to be put through to Victoria Legal Aid’s Legal Help on 1300 792 387."

    • johnno07 on 28/04/2014 - 21:58
      +3

      Court proceedings are going to be a massive waste of time. It doesn't seem that the son was ill enough to justify the breaking of the law, based on the OPs own words. Even though their son is diabetic, "not feeling very well", is never going to justify driving illegally. The main point is the OPs unfortunate ignorance of the law (yes, they may have been given the wrong info - but it's still their fault in the eyes of the law), and there is a snowball's chance in hell of getting the fine/suspension wiped based on that fact.

    • one man clan on 29/04/2014 - 12:05
      -1

      Despite what the poster below says, obtaining legal advice and taking court proceedings is absolutely not a waste of time.

      This is the best piece of advice in the thread - challenge the fine and suspension.

      • johnno07 on 29/04/2014 - 19:05
        -6

        Are you joking? I can't tell. Challenging it is going to take a huge amount of time and effort and there is maybe a 0.1% chance of success. That 0.1% accounts for the possibility of landing a magistrate of foreign birth who also happens to have a diebetic child. Not going to happen. This is a clear cut case of being ignorant of the law.

        • kwaker on 30/04/2014 - 11:09
          -2

          I would like to know where you get your figures? Sounds like scaremongering

          I have assisted 3 cases all won.

          Its laziness like yours that let's corrupt cops win and get worse

        • one man clan on 30/04/2014 - 11:45
          +2

          This.

          Community legal centres handle loads of these types of cases weekly. I've watched it happen.

        • johnno07 on 30/04/2014 - 15:54

          0.1% is obviously an exaggeration. What I'm clearly saying is there is a VERY SMALL CHANCE of success. I'm not talking about laziness - I'm talking about minimising unnecessary stresses in your life.

          Also - lol - corrupt cops? There is no police corruption here, only ignorance on the behalf of the OP. That's it. If there was some evidence of police corruption I would personally fight it tooth and nail on principle - even if I had next to no chance of winning. I would not, on the other hand, fight it tooth and nail if I knew I was in the wrong, and the only one to blame.

        • youknow on 02/05/2014 - 11:06
          +1

          kwaker, Corrupt cops? Really? So the cop was corrupt in this case? The OP was in the wrong, not the cop.

        • kwaker on 02/05/2014 - 12:11

          Corrupt cops? Really?

          I don't see an actual question there, only question marks. Are you asking if cops can be corrupt?

          So the cop was corrupt in this case?

          Is this supposed to be a statement from you? If so then I don't see why you would think that. I certainly said nothing in relation to the ops case.

          The OP was in the wrong, not the cop

          Yes I agree.

          Since onemanclan is experienced I would listen to him before accepting the made up statistics of johnno

        • johnno07 on 04/05/2014 - 14:26

          I don't see an actual question there, only question marks.

          I'm not sure why you are being critical of youknow's grammar, when your original post has shocking grammar - but we knew what you were talking about and went with it.

          I certainly said nothing in relation to the ops case.

          What is the point of mentioning it if it wasn't in relation to the OP's case then? Just for a bit of useless waffle? To improve the position of your so-called argument?

          made up statistics of johnno

          The made up statistics you're referring to were a form of exaggeration. They were obviously not meant to be taken seriously, but rather as an example of how unlikely an outcome was. Though, as we've seen from your subsequent post, you're all about the straw man argument.

    • jzdhgkd on 29/04/2014 - 12:27

      For some reason I thought you were from Victoria!

      Hopefully you hadn't called that number yet. If you decide to call up, the NSW number is 1300 888 529.

      Good luck!

    • pegasusx on 29/04/2014 - 15:07
      +4

      Diego dont go down the legal path. Your situation really sux but i've been down the review/legal aid/appeal road and its not worth it. Forget about the $7xx or so dollars and the suspended license.
      I went through 8 months of being dragged to the local court twice, then at the same time had to file another case at the Regional court to overturn the local court result. Kinda crazy as all in all it wasted about 3 weeks of my life.

  • jason101 on 28/04/2014 - 22:28
    +5

    I have sympathy for you but I think this is a lesson we'll learnt. I get cranky when I receive fines too but at the end of the day, the police are just doing their jobs to keep our roads as safe as possible under the accepted laws of the country.

    The officer was probably annoyed you handed over a foreign license while in possession of a local permit of which the terms where not being observed.

    Hate to make your bad day worse but you probably should advise your insurance company of this issue as you may have voided some conditions of disclosure relating to having a license terminated or suspended.

    • Mumbles on 29/04/2014 - 03:06
      +3

      I agree with you and also feel bad for the OP.

      Unfortunately a judge will think along the same lines. That the driver knew their situation (holder of a learners license), consciously risked his license and did not show the learners license when pulled over by the police or display L plates as mandated in the learner drivers handbook.

      The law is definitely not on the side of the OP. Don't worry, the suspension period would probably be only a few months and time passes very quickly. It's a good thing the wife can drive.

      • lplau on 29/04/2014 - 08:48
        +4

        The OP basically pushed himself into a grave, when he showed the Overseas Licence first.

        It gives the impression that the OP KNEW he was driving illegally on the L Plate Licence since he didn't give it first and gives the impression that he was hiding the fact that he is a L Plater.

        After being asked a few questions, then he cracks and pulls out the L Plate Licence.
        How do you think this looks when you are the officer?

  • Cheeper on 28/04/2014 - 23:25
    +2

    I was once a resident of another country for a few years and one of the first things I did was to get licensed to drive in that country even though I could have driven on my Australian license for 6 months.
    I could see no reason to delay doing it.
    Sadly and at much expense, I think you have discovered one of the reasons that you should not have delayed it?

  • mousie on 29/04/2014 - 00:23
    +2

    Do you know how many people with international licenses don't pay fines or continue driving whilst prohibited? If your in a support capacity you should be responsible and get your license. Would you have gotten your license had you not be fined?

    • gevidian on 29/04/2014 - 06:18
      +2

      There was a report indicating that about 30% (exaggeration?) of Australian are driving while not licensed (either no license or suspended license). Many times you see news stories of drivers being caught "drunk" with a BAC multiple times over the lgal limit and having a previously suspended licencse. They get away with minimal fines. The roads (and country) will only become safer when there is a willingness in scoiety to accept sentencing that is more harsh and deterrent.

  • Geewhizz on 29/04/2014 - 07:08
    +2

    VicRoad's website states:
    The supervising driver must be an experienced driver who holds:….
    - a current …. overseas ….. driver licence in English (or with an English Translation

    Man, that's rough. If OP's wife had had an english translation of her license on her OP would have been perfectly fine.

  • EnALup on 29/04/2014 - 08:32
    +1

    Sorry to hear that OP. But many of Permanent Immigrant friends have the same attitude of using the overseas licences for months or years knowing they can use if for 6 months only after their initial entry. They have been driving cars in their countries, but might not know all the rules and could be dangerous.
    I don't think English is a problem as you have explained it clear in here and you could have got all the information from the RTA. You stay in April is seventh month.

    When you enter Australia as a PR, you are given 6 months to make arrangements to get a licence. You don't have to start the process after 6 months.

    Considering your son is diabetic, you should have thought of the emergency conditions and planned earlier.

    You could have got the full licence after clearing the driving test.

    For now, try writing to RTA explaining your condition.

    • EnALup on 29/04/2014 - 11:31
      +1

      Few members are saying it is 3 months and not 6 months like it used to be few years back.

  • Baysew on 29/04/2014 - 09:34
    +2

    Op hasn't been given an answer to these questions:

    I know I can try to Review this fine, but am I be able to Review the suspension he gave me?

    Also, my Driving test was booked for this Wednesday, do you know if I will be able to do the test or will I need to re-schedule it?

    The OP is in NSW, so any Victorian answers and references to Vic Roads will only muddy the waters.

    Can the suspension be reviewed ? I don't think it can unless taken to court (would say its automatic) but that is just my opinion.

    As for the driving test, as there is no valid Learners Drivers Licence the OP is NOT ALLOWED TO DRIVE ON THE ROADS.
    So no , you can't do test on Wednesday.

    Can someone expand further ?

    • EnALup on 29/04/2014 - 11:32

      True, he cannot as his licence is suspended. But he needs to notify RTA and take their suggestion.

  • JediJan on 29/04/2014 - 09:51
    +1

    The Police Officer was just doing his job and to do otherwise would have placed him in error. The rules are there for everyone to adhere to. I don't believe that anyone would have given you incorrect information, just that you did not understand your situation. If you had arranged an International Driving Licence (as your wife did) this could have been averted, giving you ample time to book your licence testing in the interim 6 months. You will have to cancel your licence testing for Wednesday, but at short notice I do not think you would qualify for a refund there; ring them immediately. I don't think you could have any luck with an appeal. Check online RTA internet sites for details on procedures; they are very informative. Book your testing to begin on the first possible day after your suspension is the only thing I believe you can do now. I am afraid the rule of "ignorance of the Law is no excuse" would apply in your circumstances; it wouldn't hurt to ask them but no point in pleading because it is your error really.

  • paul_5666 on 29/04/2014 - 10:02

    I'm confused. Was your wife with you? Other posters have said that she can be your supervisor so I fail to see how you broke the law? Maybe a fine for no plates at most.

    • JediJan on 29/04/2014 - 10:12
      +1

      I believe the writer does not have a valid learner drivers licence (which would be required plus wearing of L plates) and, forgive me if I am wrong here please, a holder of an International Driver Licence cannot act as supervisor for a Learner Plate driver.

      Personally I don't think they should issue International Drivers Licences unless the drivers pass a written test, which should, more or less, indicate they know the road rules in the particular state/s they are in.

    • dileme on 29/04/2014 - 10:38

      hi Paul,

      Yes, my wife was with me. The issue is that I am considered a Learner because I passed the DKT test and I needed a supervisor with a full Australian License with me.

      In my mind I though someone with a valid driver license could be my supervisor, as my wife has been in Australia for less then 3 months her international license is still valid. It was a misunderstanding by me.

      I didn't make the tests before because I didn't have a car, I just bought one. It is pretty sad because my drive test was booked for tomorrow……but anyway, I think there is nothing I can do now…

      • EnALup on 29/04/2014 - 11:36
        -3

        Learning of your own is dangerous. You need to take driving classes from professional and use their car for the test as well if you did not buy your own car in first three months.

      • lolmao on 29/04/2014 - 19:37

        If you are on learners license and driving with your wide/supervisor you should use your L Plates then you might get away with it

      • Azn310 on 30/04/2014 - 09:14

        I'm sorry to hear OP.. But no L plate, no argument really.. Please coordinate with the suspension, if you continue driving, you will get caught again. Police here knows who drive the car, thats why they pull you over, its no coincidence.

      • paul_5666 on 30/04/2014 - 09:49
        +1

        What state are you in? A quick google search says that your wife can be your supervisor if you're in Victoria. if you're in NSW unfortunately she needs to have an Australian licence to supervise you and in which case you need to pay the fine.

      • JediJan on 02/05/2014 - 01:14

        I would be a bit reluctant to use my own vehicle for the driving test, even though as far as I am aware, it is fully roadworthy. It would be a real setback if the testing officer found some minor fault with your car and cancelled the test on the spot, causing you to rebook, My son is also on a learners permit driving my vehicle (for his required 120 hours in Victoria) but he will be finishing up his final hours and going for his licence test in a driving school car.

        On some of our quiet local drives I am amazed by the fact that we come across others having driving practice and not displaying the L plates. I assume they don't possess learner driver licences. What that is about leaves more to wonder why; it is quite obvious that some really have no driving experience let alne knowledge of the road rules.

  • johnnywarren on 29/04/2014 - 10:15
    -7

    You should've lied and said you only came here 2 months ago.

    There is no way for any State Policeman to check by the side of the road, as Immigration is a Federal Government department and they don't instantly matching records.

    He'd have to arrest you and get Police Records involved.

    Too much trouble!

    • lplau on 29/04/2014 - 10:18
      +3

      Yup, and they take down all the details, then submit it later to get it all checked out.
      Then fine you 2x over for lying and possibly taking you to court.

      He can also check your name and see if you have a domestic licence, then still fine you, and fine you double for giving false information.

      Do you REALLY want to risk it? lol.

    • modsec802 on 29/04/2014 - 14:29
      +1

      That's a load of BS johnny, they can check

    • PissLUR on 29/04/2014 - 14:44
      -3

      Its a good idea actually.

      If the police insists, OP should have just showed his temporary residence visa ( or bridging visa if the temporary visa has already expired ) on his phone.

      The police cannot verify this easily.

      • modsec802 on 29/04/2014 - 14:45
        +2

        I used to work at Immigration. There's a 24x7 hotline they can call to verify anything.

      • modsec802 on 29/04/2014 - 14:45

        What do you think they do to cabbies to see if they have work rights?

  • SavatteDodo on 29/04/2014 - 10:27
    +7

    In this case

    www.bettercallsaul.com/

  • srhardy on 29/04/2014 - 10:27

    dileme - Im sorry to read about your troubles, try the link previously provided and see what they can do to help and they also should be able to tell you about the driving test you've booked….

    The fine is harsh, but with everyone trying to get away with everything it needs to be big enough to make you take more care next time, so you obey the rules.

    If you had been in an accident instead, the fine would have been a lot more and it would have been a nightmare legally to untangle… Just saying

    The LAW has hardship and emergency provisions, if you goto court try to see if the judge will listen unless paying the fine is easier and cheaper

  • braussie on 29/04/2014 - 11:01
    +1

    In NSW as a permanent resident you are allowed to drive on a current overseas license for up to 3 months only.

    As a migrant myself, I know how busy you probably were during your initial 3 months, life goes on and important events can easily escapes someones memory. Having said that, you should have better prioritised your obligations with RTA/RMS.

    I understand you could have made a "genuine mistake" of showing ignorance of the law. This however will draw no sympathy for someone judging your case.

    Interestingly, you decided to naively get your L license. After passing the DTK, in your case, requesting a L license was optional and you should not have done so. This was a terrible mistake, because you obviously shown to have no knowledge of the consequences. To my knowledge, you are only required to obtain a L license once you fail the DTK:

    "If you fail the driving test, your visiting driving privileges will be withdrawn. To continue to drive in NSW, you must obtain a learner licence before attempting another driving test."
    http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/licensing/newtonsw/international_d…

    When I did my DTK (back in 2005) getting a L license was optional and I did drive on my overseas license up until the on-road test, in which I did withing the 3 months period.

    Please someone correct me if I'm wrong but if the OP did not opt to have his L license issued, while still driving illegally, the fine would be "cheaper" and his license would not be suspended. According to: http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/downloads/demerits-gene…
    OTHER STATE OR TERRITORY LICENCE
    Sec 53 (1)(a) Unlicensed driver/rider (1st offence within last 5 years) 7 $506

    Your were probably booked under:
    "Driving unaccompanied by a supervising driver whilst the holder of a learner licence"
    http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/usingroads/penalties/licence_suspe…

    HTH

    • EnALup on 29/04/2014 - 11:30

      I hope you meant DKT (Driver knowledge test) and not DTK. You will need to pass the DKT test for getting the L Licence. There are two options after that.
      1. If your existing full driving licence is from a country where Australia validates and is older than 3 years, you will be given a full licence.
      2. If you need validation or that country name is not in RTA's list, you will be required to pass the driving test before getting the full licence.

      Most of the migrants find it difficult to pass the driving test and that is the reason based on previous migrant's or student's experiences they keep driving on the old licence.
      International students have the liberty to drive using the licence from their country during their stay and it is exploited by many migrants on full scale as well. Getting one or two driving classes and they are on road doing learning while driving. Very Dangerous !!.

      Even without a car, you can take driving classes from schools and get your driving licence.

      I think, there were two mistakes OP did.
      1. After passing the DKT test, OP had to drive using the 'L' plates all the time and he could have asked RTA if his wife can supervise him( though she cannot). He was not using the 'L' Plates.
      2. His wife cannot supervise him so he was driving without a supervisor.

      He should have allowed his wife to drive the car knowing he is just a Learner driver in Australia.

  • MATTDAMON on 29/04/2014 - 16:07
    +2

    The problem is that because your unlicensed means you dont have insurance (since most companies will not pay out if the driver is unlicensed) so if you had an accident then you and the other party would of been up to it deep.

    There are other options if your son was sick, an ambulance, a cab etc. Also not knowing the law is also such a poor excuse, nothing was stopping you ringing and asking back when you got your PR, or using the internet to look it up.

  • Hadoop on 29/04/2014 - 16:33

    Sinto muito meu velho!

    • PVA on 03/05/2014 - 18:08

      sorry my old?

  • bryanstrider on 29/04/2014 - 22:55
    +1

    Hi, OP. Here how and why you should FIGHT the FINE.

    http://nesaraaustralia.com/2012/09/22/how-and-why-you-should…

    All credits go to the journalist. I am merely sourcing this article.

  • [Deactivated] on 29/04/2014 - 23:12

    My suggestion to to speak to a lawyer.

    A fine and loss of license of that size (and the added cost of taxi without a license) it might be worth fighting to at least argue for a lighter punishment (using a competent lawyer). It seems that you may have been doing the wrong thing for a long time and admitting to that will only reinforce the punishment but if you stick to the trip that the Police officer caught you on it may potentially argue that it was necessary if it was a life threatening situation - http://www.judcom.nsw.gov.au/publications/benchbks/criminal/…

    I am not a lawyer and this is not legal advice.

  • coolsteps on 30/04/2014 - 01:24

    the policeman was doing his job and you broke the law by driving unlicensed thus your were in fact uninsured. why did you show your Os license first? you should have said you have been here under 3 months thus no way they can prove it unless you had showed them your passport. you told the truth and showed your learners permit and that was your downfall. so many loop holes in the system and ways around doing the practical driving tests here etc. fyi ie its possible to transfer your license to a treaty country ie portugal then to an aust one without having to do a driving test i think. did you tell the officer it was a medical emergency? he probably would have escorted you to hospital with sirens blazing and let you off using his own discretion. you are best calling to postpone your driving test as the examiner will most likely check if your learners is valid or not before the test or after to issue you your license thus you may lose your booking fee. you can always ask for a medical cert from your doctor and then attach it as supporting evidence and write in a appeal letter asking to have the fine waived. just say its your first fine and you are new here and never intended to break any laws. you never know your luck, bom sorte.

    • lplau on 30/04/2014 - 09:07

      Depends how urgent the son needed medical assistance. If it was "oh he was having pain, but wasn't dying pain" then they prob won't let you off it.

      It all depends on the urgency, for example there was a case awhile back in regards to a guy which was speeding over 150km/h to bring his wife to a hospital due to baby birth, and they said if he didn't do that, either the wife would have died or the baby would have. After he got that verified then they gave him his licence back.

      Don't lie to the police, as said above, there is a direct hotline to Immigration which can be used by the police, if he calls up, then you are screwed and need to pay double….

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