Dishonest dentists

[Deactivated] on 30/03/2014 - 23:19

I've changed dentists three times now due to obviously dishonest conducts. It must be my unfortunate luck that my previous dentists detected more cavities than I actually have. E.g. suggesting me to fill up 10 cavities which in fact there was only 3 which needed filling.

The reason I'm confident that they are quoting more than the 3 that need filling is that I have a couple dentist friends who are interstate and I've sought their advice. All my dentist friends have had a look at the "cavities" and said I was tricked to fill up holes that never even existed.

Another dishonest practice is taking needless X-rays to check for supposed "side cavities" and "inflammation".

Are we actually paying more than what is necessary at the dentists?

General Discussion

Comments

  • rambao9 on 30/03/2014 - 23:28
    +3

    Yes, I think the dentists scam people so much everyday, it just becomes part of their "normal" practice. My last 2 visits, I go about once every half a year, the guy charges for First Molar Removal Visit every single time, same dentist. He recommends I have my wisdom teeth removed and wants me to take some sort of X-Ray at the scanning places.

    Just going to get teeth washed and bill is always around $400. Charges for an X-Ray, that they should still have from last few visits, First Visit Molar removal, repairing cavities etc etc.

    But most people don't care because its covered.

    • scrimshaw on 30/03/2014 - 23:34
      +3

      The dentists charge like a bull because they know most people have dental cover.

      It's best to get a second opinion before you get any major work done. For e.g I was diagnosed with an underbite, the dentist insisted that I undergo maxillofacial to correct it but when I asked other dentists they said most people have an underbite that doesn't need to be corrected if it causes no issues.

  • altomic on 30/03/2014 - 23:35
    +2

    It's because they don't have fillings. (feelings)

  • The tiger on 31/03/2014 - 08:03

    Yes it is too… expensive to see a dentist here in Melbourne especially if they know you have insurance cover. I went for one tooth extracted . Result went twice , and the charges was more than $1,000.00 paid by my ins. and myself paid $300.00 . I never want to visit him again and I dropped my extra ins. cover. Nowadays I take the opportunities whenever I visit Malaysia, I see the dentists there and have my and my wife's teeth checked and done- fairly fairly cheap. Once I had 4 cavities refilled cost me RM 400.00 ( A$135.00) only.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/03/2014 - 15:22

      Wow, I've seen three replies now that people have actually went overseas to get their teeth done. Opens up a whole new discussion of dental tourism to have same service but much cheaper price. Just curious, did you purposely go to Malaysia to get your teeth fixed (like a weekend trip)? Or were you there for holiday?

      • Banana on 01/04/2014 - 10:09

        I had two of my wisdom teeth taken out in Malaysia as well, cost me RM 100 ( 33 AUD), flight was AUD700. I purposely flew to Malaysia to have my teeth taken out.

  • voiletmay on 31/03/2014 - 09:05

    Oh yes, this is our story too.

    Local shopping centre dentist wanted to charge my husband about $12,000 for various root canals and things. Teenage daughter went too and he wanted to charge her $6,000 for holes she didn't even have yet (just shadows in the xray).

    I asked around, and a friend of mine recommended a dentist who was very honest.

    Hubby only needs about $800 worth done - no root canals at all - an extraction, quite a few fillings and a clean.

    Daughter needed $129 worth only (just a cap replaced on her front tooth that broke when she was little and on crutches).

    Not sure I'm allowed to post who the honest dentist is. But if anyone wants to know an honest/cheap dentist in the Redlands (Brisbane) just message me.

    We were seriously looking at going overseas, but it was just a matter of asking around and finding an honest/cheap dentist.

    • Trance N Dance on 01/04/2014 - 18:19

      You are very much welcome to share who the cheap dentist is, hell that dentist would probably LOVE you as most business is drummed up by word of mouth like this.

      • voiletmay on 04/04/2014 - 09:10

        Thanks, the honest dentist was:

        http://www.wynyardstreetdental.com.au/ - it's in Cleveland, QLD - we saw the man (Des), but my friend sees the woman.

        Oh.. my friend was telling me about another cheap dentist. No idea of details, but he was around Annerley (I think) and he was an ex-navy dentist that they heard about once. Her husband was up for $1000's for a dental issue and they went to this guy and he fixed the problem for $80.

    • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2014 - 21:58

      Shadows seen on xrays are diagnostic of caries. I'm not commenting on any other part of your experience but I just wanted to point out that shadows = holes. The size of the shadow makes a difference but in general shadow = hole.

  • bodacious on 31/03/2014 - 11:36

    I'm a convert to overseas dentists.

    So far about 7 fillings, a wisdom removed and root canal therapy.

    Everything was better, friendly service, easy to make booking, a fraction of the cost (way less than half), savings payed for holiday!!

    Friend just had 4 cr*wns done in Bangkok recons they were only $400 each!

    • [Deactivated] on 31/03/2014 - 15:23

      Which country did you get the fillings done? How much savings did you get (after calculating in the air ticket prices)?

  • rmamila on 31/03/2014 - 12:43

    I have a private cover but every time I go to a Dentist for annual checkup with my family they scare me and I end up spending a lot. 3 years back I went to a place which had a promotion who said it's gap free tooth cleaning with health insurances. Then I went with my wife and little one. They scared me on some cavities and I just asked for a quote. I didn't do anything on the day. I never managed to find those cavities with successive appointments with other dentists in last 3 years. However my wife went into a different room when I was in the other room and she has agreed to go ahead with what ever they suggested. She came out with few X-Rays and couple of fillings which cost us $700+ out of pocket. I never went for the gap free annual checkup and cleanup in that place again. Actually we now wait for our trip overseas (home) every other year and do all the checkups and filling there. Don't bother using the insurance in here, even though I have one.

    There was another incident again 3 years back and just couple of months after I went to above mentioned place. I had a pain in one of my teeth and went to a different place this time. The lady dentist said I have an infection and need a root canal filling. However she said she will give me some anti biotic for the infection first and asked me to come back in couple of weeks. However she started doing some work on my teeth while inspecting the issue. She spent about 5 minutes and I felt that she quickly did a cleanup. I thought I was bit confused as I didn't went for cleanup or didn't ask for it anyway. Then came out to pay the bill with insurance. Then the lady at the counter said that she cannot charge for the cleanup as the insurance card keeps rejecting the claim. Then I said I did a cleanup in less than 2 months back so there won't be any money left to claim for that again. She asked me to pay the total bill out of pocket and claim from insurance later if possible. I refused it as I didn't want to do a clean up anyway and if I wanted one, I need a proper cleanup not just a quick 5 minutes job.

    I came home without paying. They rand me couple of times later as well. But I was firm on my decision not to pay. Then they might have written it off form their books as bad debt or something.

    With less than half of the money I have to pay as out of pocket after paying part from insurance, I can get a better job done from my home country and fix everything. That's what we do now.

    • [Deactivated] on 31/03/2014 - 15:24

      How much was e.g. filling a cavity in your home country?

      • rmamila on 31/03/2014 - 17:25

        Totally free in Government hospitals and no need to wait for days in the queue but it can be few hours wait in the hospital. Worst case it go to 3-4 hours sitting on the bench.
        Good private hospitals are around $35-50 for a filling. If it's a root canal it can be over $100. You can do it below 200 with a crown for sure.

  • The tiger on 01/04/2014 - 09:44

    Hi, OZbargainer 2014, just to answer your query, we take the opportunity to have holidays in Malaysia and then without fail to visit the dentists there. Cheaper way. AirAsia uses to offer cheap fares. All in holidays plus dental charges work out cheaper, and those dental staff are extremely friendly, not threatening and unnecessary jobs . Why not !

    • rmamila on 01/04/2014 - 17:04

      wonder if AirAsia would starts "Dental Holiday Speacial fares" very soon :D

  • Trance N Dance on 01/04/2014 - 18:23

    These dentists sicken me, and give dentists a bad name. I'm ashamed that these people are out there and practicing… and it's only going to get worse as competition goes up.

    For those considering overseas dental treatment, be very cautious of who you go to. Do your homework. There is nothing bad about going overseas for some major dental work if you've done your homework and found a reputable dentist. I've seen some pretty damn shoddy cases where people have gone to Indonesia, Malaysia, Vietnam, etc to have dental work done.

    And remember that if dental treatment is the only purpose for you going, sometimes after adding up accommodation and flights it'll end up cheaper doing it in Australia, especially if you have private health insurance.

  • [Deactivated] on 01/04/2014 - 22:30
    +1

    I just want to put out some general information so people have some idea of what is going on when you read stories like this about 10 fillings quoted by one dentist versus 2 at another.

    On a general checkup dentists can only see the visible surfaces of the teeth (obviously) and not in between the teeth which is why they will commonly recommended getting xrays to check these areas. There is a difference between the large 'full mouth' xrays (panoramic) and small xrays that are done at the dental clinic. Panoramic xrays give a good overall picture of the jaws and the relation of the teeth to nerves and other anatomical structures but do not give the detail required to find 'holes' between teeth - for those you need the small xrays taken at the dental clinic.

    There is currently no absolute guidelines about when to fill a hole/shadow seen on an xray. The depth of the shadow (whether it involves just the outer enamel, or enamel and dentine, or further) increase the likelihood that the shadow is actually a 'hole'. This is also influenced by whether a person lives in an area of fluoridated water, their diet/sugar habits, etc (i.e. a smaller shadow is more likely a hole in a patient who lives in a non-fluoridated area). An easy way to think of this is to imagine that a healthy tooth is completely solid. When you see a shadow that involves only the outer enamel then the area can be imagined as being porous and no longer solid. However as it still maintains it overall shape, minerals can be deposited in these porous holes and the tooth 'healed'. But as the shadows get deeper its more and more likely that there is actually a break down of the solid tooth and it will continue to get larger without a filling.

    Because there is no absolute guideline (and because there are a few other factors to consider) you will have dentists who have different 'thresholds' for when to do a filling as opposed to a 'wait and see' approach with xrays at yearly, 2 yearly, etc. intervals to see if the shadow is actually getting larger. Some dentists have lower thresholds because its their clinical judgement that it will continue to get worse if you leave it alone. It could be because they are from an age/from an area which wasn't fluoridated and so they've clinically seen that things can get really bad quickly. Or they have judged because of poor history of dental visits, high sugar diets, etc. that it is better off being a little more aggressive than let you leave the office with the chance of everything going to shits because the next time you visit the dentist might not be for years.

    Its unfortunate to see that some patients value cheap work, or avoid doing necessary work as the qualities of a 'good dentist' versus someone who actually tells you what you need despite the expenses. As things go wrong inevitably as time goes by, these patients are more likely to not blame the cheaper dentist despite the overall cost being greater when everything is summed up 10 years down the track. Work that should have been done the first time around and may have been cheaper that way.

    As for overseas treatment - I'm sure there have been some good experiences but with many things in healthcare it takes years before problems arise. The unfortunate part is that these treatments done overseas are often very 'end of the line' treatment options meaning that when they do fail it is very difficult to recover from. For example - dentists here may recommended root canal for a tooth that isn't the best candidate in the hopes of extending its life for as long as possible so that when it eventually does need to be replaced by an implant the patient is a few years older and the implant has fewer years of 'work' to do. Often these overseas dentists will recommended implant treatment for much younger patients - lets say a 30 year old - if the average lifespan is around 80 then that implant has 50 years to work(!!) and it will not last that long regardless of how 'good' you think these dentists are. The unfortunate part is implants are what i would call 'end of the line' treatment and replacing an implant is not an easy task - it involves a lot of grafting because you've lost all the healthy jaw bone that is required to place a new implant (and may be impossible to do so).

    Its easy to see dental treatment is a 'one-time' expense - crown was $XX, root canal $XX - but you should consider it as a whole of how much service and qualify of life (and in fact overall cost it actually is). Good dental work done in australia where you have the legal right to ask for adequate work and lasts you 5 times as long is better than poor work that is 1/4th the price. It seems very attractive to have a crown placed in Thailand for $400 as opposed to $1500 here - but if that crown needs to be replaced 5 times compared to one done properly the first time around - it isn't any cheaper at all.

  • astek on 01/04/2014 - 22:56

    Thought I will add my 2 cents - I was asking a friend (more like an acquaintance) if they can point me in the right direction and recommend me a dentist for some crowns as I was going to Thailand anyway. Turns out their relatives do the reverse, she makes her mother's dental appointments with her local dentist ahead of time for when they come here to visit Australia to see family. I was only going to stay for a week in Bangkok, after working out the time I would wasted at the dentist there and potentially ruining my holiday, and after what she said, I ended up seeing my regular dentist instead.

    Saw a news article about something like this fairly recently - just found it to share - http://www.abc.net.au/news/2014-02-06/an-aust-medical-touris…

    Seems like it isn't just for dentists, same for doctors / operations, Australians going to Asia, Asians coming to Australia - big winners are the Airlines!

  • The tiger on 01/04/2014 - 23:52

    Hi, Puppett, you write as if one gets a dentist here for whatever treatment, the dental work done here is much better than those of overseas as can be seen by the more expensive cost. You infer that it is 100% alright for the expensive and horrified dental charges to us here because here we provide you a much better and more skillful job than those of overseas. Do not think what you wrote is correct. Do not forget a lot of overseas dentists are overseas trained such as from Melbourne, and Sydney. I myself got a crown done in Victoria , that crown alone cost me $800.00 plus thousands of dollars of other related services charged to my ins. The root went bust just under 2 years, but the crown ( the man-made tooth) was still sound . Don't you think the dentist did a sloppy job as she should be aware the inner part of the spoit tooth would not last that long and why asked me to buy a $800.00 artificial tooth.Or at least she should be able to advise me for that.In another occasion, one dentist said my tooth needed root canalling . It was done accordingly and was heavily charged to my ins. plus some $300 out of my pocket . The next day I felt a horrified pain with that same tooth. Saw the same dentist again, and was told nothing could be done. Took it out, again he charged my ins. a substantial sum plus some $100.00 out of my pocket. Thereafter no return for me to that dentist at the regional location of East Melbourne. You see just the extration of one tooth cost me $400.00 apart fron the colonssial sums paid by ins.co.You seem wrote on the side of local dentists here. I am wondering whether you work in dental field.

  • pyro love bird on 02/04/2014 - 02:33

    I've had a few bad run ins with dentists too, had one argue with me and tell me that I needed to take out an "adult" tooth immediately because it was rotting, ended up costing my parents a fortune, and it turned out that I was right, it was just a baby tooth, and when he took it out, it was fine! Had a second dentist tell me that I had to get a heap of fillings, (almost 10!) he did a few, and I went to go see another dentist about it and he said that the one I was going to was notorious for drilling "extra" holes to fill up…

    So it's kind of scary that we go to these specialists because we need their advice/help, and we have no idea if they're telling us the truth or lying to us and taking our money. I think that a lot of people fall victim to the exact same thing that you've experienced, same thing goes for GPs, they prescribe the wrong medication/unnecessarily dish out forms to go to specilists, x-rays, heart monitor, blood tests (mind you the blood tests don't cost me anything, but still).

    What is this world coming to? Money/success > the bettering of humanity and honesty?

  • The tiger on 02/04/2014 - 07:53

    Hi. Plovebird, in my experience I think most GPs are still acceptable . In conclusion those dentists are the worst. However once I was recommended by my priest to a fellow church member who was a dentist in Glen Waverley. He saw me first time but he wavied off the consultancy fees. He tried to do the root cannelling for me but soon determined that the tooth was beyond repair, he took it out on my agreement. He merely charged me $90.00 for the job done and I was not on ins. cover then. Unfortunately now he has left to other place or might be retired.In Victoria at the eastern region I really can't find a fees-friendly dentist ( someone suggested Monesh Health Clinic as the fees are very low. The problem is one has to wait for a long time. How could one bears if the tooth begins its bite, and often we can not sleep due to the throbbing pain. I hope here in this forum some good fellows can suggest good and reasonable dentists for the benefit of us. Thanks.

    • pyro love bird on 02/04/2014 - 20:26

      Hi damamaria 1943, I was thinking that GPs were pretty safe too, but my family GP passed away and I had to go looking for a new one. I had no idea that he was prescribing me useless medication and the wrong things until I ended up in hospital with pneumonia and they asked me if I was given anything, I showed it to them and they were shocked. I went back and told the doc (thinking it was just a mistake, we're all human) but ended up back in hospital a few months later… Been to a few others who'd send me all over the place to see specialists when I didn't need to as well. It sounds like you had a trustworthy dentist, its a shame to hear that he's left the practice though. I'm in Perth and I'm currently going to a dentist who's a recent graduate, so far no problems, but only time will tell.

      I hope you find a dentist soon, sounds like a painful situation!

  • 2ndeffort on 04/04/2014 - 10:02
    +2

    I'm no dentist but this whole medical cost issue is something I've struggled with for years. Under a free market medical system, medical folks are free to compete for their services. I guess competition is meant to keep them in check, ie if they are too expensive we will all migrate across to a cheaper alternative. If we were all informed buyers and knew how to make informed comparisons this would be a fair system. Unfortunately we are not informed buyers, well most of us arent. I've never been to dental school and when I sit in the chair I am almost at the total mercy of my dentist. If he says i need a crown…..a crown it is. If I go to the mechanic and he says i need a new radiator for the car, I can shop around, maybe even install it myself to save some $$, maybe plug the hole with something, or maybe buy a new car. Not going to happen at the dentist/doctor.

    The number of Dentists/Doctors driving around in Porsches and Maseratis and living in Bayside mansions leads me to believe that sometimes they are making healthy margins from the work they do. Many/most of us have no idea about whether we are getting the best deal or not. Do we really need those fillings? Could they just fill a cavity instead of a root canal/crown? WHo knows? And if they do need to do this, is the guy I am visiting charging me overs or is he a good deal? Is the guy in Malaysia doing a shoddy job? Who knows? I cant make the comparison because I don't have the expertise to make an informed decision. As a result I am sure I end up paying massive overs for the 'trusted family health professional' and the various medical bodies like it just that way! I am sure they laugh about it at the ski lodge over a nice red!!

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