Flooring gone wrong - can they do this?

Hi folks,

Got a bit of a sticky situation, hoping someone can provide some advice.

We arranged at the end of last year/early this year to get all the carpet in our house removed, replaced by laminate floorboards - this consists of 4 bedrooms, a lounge, dining and games room. We scheduled it in for February and divided it over three weeks, as we had a lot of stuff that needed moving from one room to another - I'm working full time and my wife was 4 months pregnant at the time. We paid the deposit a month prior to the installation, and it came to roughly 30% of the total cost.

On the third (and final) week of the installation we queried with the installers (who are subcontracted from a different company) when our final payment was due, and they were surprised we hadn't heard from the company as they said it's usually due prior to the final installation. He said they would be in contact shortly. Later in the day, he got a call and then came and spoke to us. He asked us if we liked the flooring, to which we replied "yes", then he said that was good, as they had installed the wrong flooring.

We were a bit in shock, as you can imagine - this conversation took place when the majority of the flooring was laid, and they were doing the fiddly beading bits at the end of it (which take as much time as pulling up the carpets and putting the floorboards in place).

We hadn't been contacted by the company until this week, they called my wife at home on Wednesday, telling her that immediate payment was due, when my wife queried about the fact that incorrect flooring was laid, they got very defensive saying that was their mistake and eventually offering a $200 discount. My wife asked
for a 10% discount.

Just to point out, the flooring laid was a more expensive product, however we didn't choose this one for non-financial reasons. I'm a guitarist and my son is an aspiring drummer, so our final decision was based on the acoustic properties.

So my wife asked me to call, and I spoke to the General Manager, who suggested he was not going to offer anything beyond the $200 discount, or he would send around the installers and rip up all the floor and re-lay it. With my wife being (now 5 months) pregnant, this was not a practical solution to us.

Things quickly made it to a heated conversation, and I said I would call the Department of Consumer Affairs to see what my rights are, and he said he would be calling a debt collector to recover his funds. Note that this is the day after we were requested final payment.

I called the DCA who put me through to the Building Commission, who said I need to lodge a notice of complaint, which I've downloaded and filled out.

We didn't receive any terms and conditions of sale when we first made the deposit, so we are at a loss as to whether they can actually call a debt collector on us, with one phone call after the fact, and no other contact during the installation from the time we went to the shop and paid the deposit.

Anyone?

Thanks

Richard


Update 11th March

Hi everyone, thank you for your feedback, both positive, negative or indifferent. I'm happy to say the company came back with an offer between the initial $200 and the 10%, which we have accepted and will move on.

For those of you who thought this was 'BS' and 'just another whinge' I apologize, but in a situation where we don't know if we are in the right (or if we're asking an ridiculous amount) it is good to get the moral judgement of a cross section of the community.

And thanks to OzBargain for providing this facility, as I wouldn't know who else to ask (without asking a friend, who would have a bias opinion).

Cheers

Richard

Comments

  • +1

    If I understand correctly, the final 1/3 hasn't been done and payment in full is expected. Pay them for the first 2/3 as per the contracted rate. They have absolutely no right no demand full payment before a contracted job is complete. If they do not want to complete the job, get someone else to do the final bit.

    It should not inconvenience you that the contractor has made an error, be it in your favour or otherwise. Record every conversation you have with your contractor from here on out. Blatant lies be it verbal or written works well in your advantage should this go to small claims court.

    • No, the contractors discovered the error on the final installation, the job has been completed, but they waited for a week and a half to contact us after that to request payment.

      It should not inconvenience you that the contractor has made an error, be it in your favour or otherwise. Record every conversation you have with your contractor from here on out. Blatant lies be it verbal or written works well in your advantage should this go to small claims court.

      Thanks for that.

      Richard

  • Just to point out, the flooring laid was a more expensive product, however we didn't choose this one for non-financial reasons. I'm a guitarist and my son is an aspiring drummer, so our final decision was based on the acoustic properties.

    Just one question, what is the difference between the acoustic properties of the two laminate products?

    • Just one question, what is the difference between the acoustic properties of the two laminate products?

      To be honest, we looked at the flooring late last year, the product we chose has a deeper, more resonant sound, which was backed by the salesman. My wife and I decided the acoustic qualities of the product was better than the more expensive one.

      Cheers

      Richard

  • +7

    if it is a better quality floor then i suggest you stick with that. the resale value of your house will be better. plus you got $200 off.

    • Cheers for that …

  • Don't think they are obliged to give you the 10% discount however I don't think you're obliged to pay as the product is not what you have purchased therefore debt collector won't be able to do anything until the issue has been fully resolved. Your choice would be either to accept the replacement, get a full refund (rip out the entire thing) or accept the $200 discount.

    Personally I'll be pretty pissed and rather not give him my money and tell him to give me a refund and take everything back, everything will be at his loss but my inconvenience. Just make sure they don't damage your property during the process.

  • I don't think you're obliged to pay as the product is not what you have purchased therefore debt collector won't be able to do anything until the issue has been fully resolved

    Ok, thanks for that.

    Your choice would be either to accept the replacement, get a full refund (rip out the entire thing) or accept the $200 discount.

    The replacement is not really acceptable, as we have a baby on the way, and it would mean I need to move our whole house around (again).

    Getting the whole lot ripped out means we will have no flooring, as they cut the carpet to remove it - so we will have concrete floors?

    $200 seems to be a trivial refund considering the flooring will be with us for 20 years (or so).

    Personally I'll be pretty pissed and rather not give him my money and tell him to give me a refund and take everything back, everything will be at his loss but my inconvenience. Just make sure they don't damage your property during the process.

    As above, I don't believe they can restore the carpets …

    Cheers

    Richard

    • If they replaced the flooring, they would have to move furniture and other household items at their own time and cost. You shouldn't be further hassled.

      It's their duty to give you the purchased product, in this case, it was nice of them to offer the wrong (but dearer) floorboards with a further $200 discount for your time. further 10% would be unrealistic considering their assumed margin.

      this is what i believe would be fair (my opinion only)
      but definitely get it on paper before you agree to any terms

      1. keep what you have, accept the extra $200 discount

      2. have the supplier rip up and remove floorboards including removal of household items at their own cost. If they are willing to give you a free upgrade and $200 discount, they should accept these terms.

      • further 10% would be unrealistic considering their assumed margin.

        Thanks for your feedback

  • +11

    Will a 10% discount fix your acoustic problem?

    If so, then I reckon you have solid grounds to pursue this. However, the company has already offered to replace the flooring with the correct type, so not sure if the DCA can/will do anything since they've provided a viable solution. At best I think you can try to negotiate an 'inconvenience' discount on top of the replacement, but what that value is will be highly subjective… I doubt the DCA would want to weigh in on it aside from sending both of you to mediation or something.

    On the other hand, if the 10% discount you're asking for won't fix the acoustic problem, but you're still happy to accept the higher quality flooring then it might come across like you're leveraging the mistake of a contractor to try and take financial advantage of the company.

    • On the other hand, if the 10% discount you're asking for won't fix the acoustic problem, but you're still happy to accept the higher quality flooring then it might come across like you're leveraging the mistake of a contractor to try and take financial advantage of the company.

      This

    • On the other hand, if the 10% discount you're asking for won't fix the acoustic problem, but you're still happy to accept the higher quality flooring then it might come across like you're leveraging the mistake of a contractor to try and take financial advantage of the company.

      I believe (but I may be mistaken) that the contractor picks up the flooring from the companies warehouse, then lays the flooring, so the company had made the mistake, not the contractor.

      We were hoping to avoid having the flooring ripped up (and 3 weeks of moving stuff around) due to the new baby being due soon, and us wanting to get the house in order for that - another month of moving stuff around wasn't factored in …

      • +1

        I see, then let me amend my post:

        On the other hand, if the 10% discount you're asking for won't fix the acoustic problem, but you're still happy to accept the higher quality flooring then it might come across like you're leveraging a mistake to try and take financial advantage of the company.

        It seems that the acoustic properties of the floorboards are optional if you're willing to accept a 10% discount ($800) to let it go. What is the price difference between the higher quality floorboards currently installed and the floorboards you wanted? If it comes out to $600+ then in a way, you've already got your 10% discount after factoring in the $200 already offered.

        • +1

          If it comes out to $600+ then in a way, you've already got your 10% discount after factoring in the $200 already offered.

          I see, a valid point. Our stance was that we didn't get what we ordered, but we didn't want the inconvenience of having another 3 weeks of work done to the house. The 10% discount was in lieu of getting this done - our compromise. However we have been aghast at the way the company has handled this, with the threat of bringing in the debt collector at such short notice - one day after they asked, nay demanded, the final payment. Whilst we knew we owed the money, we had not been contacted by them prior to this.

  • +3

    Call his bluff, he would not pull out that flooring and relay.He would lose a lot more than the 10 percent and will make the used tiles redundant. =)

    • Most flooring is cheap, when I did flooring. I would make double the cost of the wood and this was on cut throat pricing…

      I also know that my aussie counterparts are more likely to overcharge.

      I would personally take the offer to remedy the issue rather than take a discount in this situation. 10% discount isn't even going to help the situation as it is the wrong wood.

      neophytte, Did you get a floating system or is it glued down? If it's floating, then they can recover almost all the wood and they wouldn't be out of pocket.

      Just go out shopping or down to the park whilst it is being done. Make sure they move all the furniture for you and detail that you aren't able to help with any heavy lifting.

      • What about labour costs? I suppose it depends on how busy they are, if they don't have enough work they probably won't care about sending tradies out again.

    • Cheers for that - we thought it would be a cheaper option for him; although the response doesn't indicate so …

  • +2

    ' this conversation took place when the majority of the flooring was laid, and they were doing the fiddly beading bits at the end of it (which take as much time as pulling up the carpets and putting the floorboards in place'

    I think at this point you must have given some indication as to whether you would accept the job, why was it finished if incorrect.
    If you didn't object at this point I think you should be happy with the $200.

    Sounds like a bit of posturing on both sides at this point. Try writing a letter instead, explain yourself the way you have explained to us and ask him to let both parties have a win and meet him half way between the 10% and $200.

    • -1

      I agree, how is it possible you realize its the wrong tile when most of it was already done?
      wouldn't you realize this in the first instance?

      • The two floorings look similar, if you see them side by side, you can tell the difference …

        • +1

          Same color and pattern but different thickness or material?

          Its not difficult to mix up 2 similar looking products. The layers also didn't realize until too late.

        • Yes, they look similar, however the one we ordered is a smaller width (which was how they discovered the error - they had 20 boxes left over) and a different density.

          I don't believe the layers ever knew, as they pick up from the warehouse, are told the address and lay there - it was the warehouse that picked up the mistake, with 20 boxes left over, who called the layers - this was the call I mentioned in the original post (sorry, it wasn't clear) and how they discovered the error.

    • My wife and I were sat at the table when it was announced - as the job was almost complete we were in a bit of shock (the two floorings look very similar). The 10% represents around $800, but he wouldn't budge from the $200 offer, instead offering to send the debt collectors …

      • If you didn't agree to the work than not sure how he can make you pay. There is no agreement in place for you to purchase the product provided. The debt collector should be a professional and would probably recommend the 10% discount.

        If you did agree to the work, while shocked, call it a learning experience and move on.
        Decide to be happy and enjoy your new floor, call it a bargain with the more expensive timber and maybe the acoustics are not as good but the tone is better.

        The conflict still sounds like posturing a bit of bullying, perhaps a personality clash, a debt collector would probably cost more than $800, and court costs to force you to pay would be thousands.

        Maybe you can get someone to arbitrate, suggest this to him?

        If the dude really is mean, be a little wary he knows your home. Same for ripping the floor up, if it came to that it is possible that they pull it up then don't replace.

        • There is no agreement in place for you to purchase the product provided.

          Yes.

          If you did agree to the work, while shocked, call it a learning experience and move on.

          I don't know if we did - the question was a bit pointed ("Do you like the flooring", "Yes", "We installed the wrong one"), and I'm not sure that the subcontractor has the authority to act on behalf of the main business? We were waiting for them to call, particularly after the installers comments that they should have called before or around the time of the final installation. However they didn't call for a week and a half, and were very aggressive with their tone.

          a debt collector would probably cost more than $800

          I would have thought so, I've never been threatened with this before, and felt very anxious after this conversation.

          If the dude really is mean, be a little wary he knows your home. Same for ripping the floor up, if it came to that it is possible that they pull it up then don't replace.

          Point taken.

        • +2

          Hello there, Just to give you some peace of mind, a debt collector will just send you letters and threaten court action, nothing more - don't be too worried about all that, as it sounds like you would have a very good case if it went to court anyway. They would be working on commission, and the company loses more money if they are engaged and make a collect. IMO Its just a bluff.

          The way I see it, you have 2 choices:

          1. Accept their discount offer and be done with it. (bitter pill to swallow I know)

          2. Take them to your states Civil Tribunal (Consumer Affairs) and pay a small fee to have your say in court. They will weigh up the facts and make a ruling one way or another about your situation. The company may try to settle out of court if they think you will be awarded the 10%
            Be prepared for the possibility that the judge may rule that the flooring is similar and no judgement awarded, or the possibility that they may be entitled to refund your money and remove all the flooring and that's the end of it, or you could have it ruled that they pull it all up and fit the chosen flooring as per your initial agreement, or you might get 10,20,30% awarded!

          You will be required to make it very clear exactly what outcome you are seeking by initiating this action.

          It's a shame that they wont give you the 10%. Put the pressure back on them and state clearly that you intend to take them to small claims, they may settle to avoid the hassle.

          If you are not prepared to fight for it in court, just pay up and accept it I'd say.

          Best of luck!

        • Just to give you some peace of mind, a debt collector will just send you letters and threaten court action

          If I remember correctly you were the guy who had enlisted a family friend to collect on the guy you scammed you. I'm not sure what he did for you but I know they do more than just send letters.

          They can call you multiple times a week - on your mobile, home or work and leave messages with third parties (even relatives). If you keep avoiding them they can even send a 'field agent'. It gets really annoying after a while. So I don't think its wise to just ignore this kind of threat.

          Note that it does depend on the amount of what they claim you owe, the company they hired etc.

        • Thanks for your feedback …

  • +3

    Do you have insurance? We had a similar issue - got an outdoor awning/patio cover installed, and it was supposed to be tinted glass. Got home to find it done with clear glass, which basically had a greenhouse effect and was ridiculous. It was custom made and curved in shape so was bloody expensive too.

    The company refused to change it (we didn't want a reduction, the product they put up was completely unsuitable for its purpose ie offering shade and cooling properties). Their excuse was that the tinted product we had chosen was 'discontinued' (so why they didn't use a comparable product is beyond us…)

    We made an insurance claim and basically the insurance company accepted our claim and took on the fight for us. It took about 6 months but we got the glass replaced with tinted eventually.

    Your problem is- you don't want the floor pulled up again and redone. Sorry mate but tradies reschedule/cancel all the time (causing great inconvinience) and you don't get compo for that, so I don't think you can fight if they're willing to redo it and you just don't want that.

    Surely it will cost them more to redo it though, so perhaps call their bluff and ask them to redo it - they might agree to a 10% discount then.

    Personally I would negotiate the discount and come to a compromise - more than $200 but less than 10%. The fact you're willing to settle on 10% shows that you're not too upset about the flooring that's there anyway…

    • No, we're not keen on the floor being pulled up, as it's pretty much the whole house, thus will require weeks to move rooms around again (my wife is 5 months pregnant now, and can't move anything heavy, she also finds it hard to get up and down, so most of the moving is done by me in the evenings).

      We would have thought the cost of re-doing the floor was greater, which is why we suggested the 10% refund - they will not negotiate beyond the $200 (BTW the 10% represents just over $800). Instead they offered to send the debt collectors around.

  • +3

    Considering that labour is likely 70% of the cost I doubt they would pull it up and put new stuff down.

    What a total stuff up though…. This is why I do my own work. At least I know it is done right!

    • +1

      Thanks, I normally do, but this house has some odd angles and it would have taken me longer to do it than to earn the money to do it (or so I lead myself to believe …)

  • +1

    I think your best plan of action at this point is probably to call Dept Fair Trading and find out what your rights and responsibilities are in this situation. I seriously doubt that not paying is an option - it's going to end up as a default on your credit history. HOWEVER, making payment in full will significantly diminish your bargaining power …. ask Fair Trading about this.

    BUT do you consider yourself better off for having this flooring than the one you ordered? How important to you is the acoustics? If that is negotiable based on money, then I'm guessing not THAT important. In which case, eat humble pie, take the $200 'bonus' being offered, and move on, ie have less stress. Your pregnant wife, for one, doesn't need it. You've already gotten something for nothing - ie better boards than what you've paid for, plus $200.

    On the other hand, if you had your time over, and both boards had been the same price, which would you have gone for? If you accept any sort of deal that involves keeping the current boards, are you going to regret it sound-wise in the future? If so, then no amount of money you might be able to negotiate off the cost is going to be worth it.

    lisss has mentioned insurance ….. If you were to decide that you would prefer to have this board taken up, and the one you ordered installed, they might possibly come to the party with a removalist to take up all your furniture for a few days, and accomodation for you and your family. I can't see that it would take more than a few days for the contractors to do the job if the place was empty?

    • I seriously doubt that not paying is an option

      We never said we wouldn't pay; we were not contacted for the final payment until the week and a half after

      HOWEVER, making payment in full will significantly diminish your bargaining power …. ask Fair Trading about this.

      Point taken

      I can't see that it would take more than a few days for the contractors to do the job if the place was empty?

      The job took three days, maybe two and a half - the three weeks was time for us to do packing and remove the stuff from the rooms, etc.

    • +2

      Also consider that your claim that you believe the other one has better acoustics is just based on what you thought looking at it, and not very scientific. For all you know you may find that it's better for some other property of the material.

      I wonder what all the other benefits of having the more expensive flooring is? You should list them also.

      • Presumably the acoustic properties of the cheaper stuff are only required in one or two rooms.. So can you lay rugs(?) in those rooms?

        • Thanks for the feedback.

          I acknowledge this was a decision made on the salespersons call, and that it's not very scientific.

          I'm not aware of the benefits of the more expensive flooring is, I seem to recall (remember we looked at this 4 months ago) that there was a better surface on the more expensive one, for example, less scratch-able. I am not an expert in flooring …

  • If you like the look the more expensive flooring (despite the inferior accoustics) enough to live with it then I'll suggest you settle on getting the most compensation you can from the company. The amount is not going to change the accoustics but it's more a matter of principle and compensating you for their mistake. Believe me, you and your wife do not need the stress of heated arguments and living with either no flooring and going thru ripping up the flooring and getting them redone while she is due soon. You're not going to get much sleep and will be stressed enough once the bub comes without this issue going to it! You have to imagine the inconvenience and be wary how urgent they will be in rescheduling your work. Good luck with resolving this matter.

    • Good luck with resolving this matter.

      Thank you.

  • +5

    Did your original choice of boards state a listed specification from the manufacturer that they actually contained 'acoustically beneficial properties' as an actual fact? Or was that just your personal best guess when you jumped about on it? Because even if your preferred boards DO offer dramatically better sound deadening, how much better really? 10%? Further, dead floorboards are just one piece of the puzzle to contain your noise.. Are you deadening your walls & windows too? My wife & I have been pro guitarist & drummer for 30 years - live acoustic drums and an amped gt are gonna be heard everywhere regardless of whether you have a 10% better floor. Mate - take the floor and move on with your soon-to-be burgeoning family.

    • Mate - take the floor and move on with your soon-to-be burgeoning family.

      Thanks for these words.

  • They laid the wrong product… their fault. They should finish the job with that product and cop the loss or rip it all up and lay what you ordered.
    That is the only options they have.

    • +2

      Isn't that what the company has offered? Either:

      a) Stick with the wrongly installed (but higher cost) product with a $200 discount on top; or
      b) Replace all flooring with the correct product.

      neophytte wants a third option:

      c) 10% or $800 discount.

      • BuuBox is correct; we were considering option (b), however this would be an inconvenience for us, and (we would have thought) an expensive option for the company which is why we came up with option (c).

        The quick negative reaction from the General Manager of the company and the intimidating threats of calling the Debt collector have made this situation most distasteful.

        Just to point out as well, the initial offer for the $200 discount came from the Office Manager, not the General Manager who would move no further from that point.

        • Did the threat of calling debt collectors come before or after your threat of calling Consumer Affairs?

        • Did the threat of calling debt collectors come before or after your threat of calling Consumer Affairs?

          Directly after I said I would call consumer affairs to find out what my rights are.

  • +7

    No offense OP, but this is a typical "complaining" OzBargain post.

    They've offered you one of two options.

    1) Take their BETTER product for cheaper than what you were initially paying ($200).
    2) Have them rip it up and install what you initially ordered.

    What more do you want? Them to magically wave a wand and for your flooring to appear? People make mistakes, when that happens they either compensate you (i.e. option 1) or they fix their mistake for you (option 2).

    Why are you even contacting the building commission? They're not going to force the company to give you the 10% discount you want. The company have already offered to redo your flooring as you want.

    There is actually absolutely no issue here at all.

    • +1

      No offense OP, but this is a typical "complaining" OzBargain post.

      None taken, and thanks for your feedback

  • +3

    This post is BS. People make mistakes (even you couldn't tell it was the wrong flooring). It happens in life.

    They have offered to replace it with the correct floor.

    Take them up on the offer, or move on with your life.

    • +1

      This post is BS. People make mistakes (even you couldn't tell it was the wrong flooring). It happens in life.

      Thanks for your feedback.

  • +1

    Look on ABC iView and search for a show called " The Checkout".

    Episode 3 of this year will answer your question.

    This show is very good and a must to watch for consumers.

    • Thanks for that - I wasn't sure which bit answered my question, but did enjoy the segment on expensive headphones (as it's a pet hate of mine).

  • +2

    How much do you still owe?

    This sounds like your playing a game called I've got you now you sob - (see works of Dr Eric Berne) and also a game of: why don't you? …. yes but….

    Debt collector can't do anything except ask/harass you to pay. They made a mistake so this is now a disagreement which if either of you wants further action the tribunal is the place to go. You have to pay what your not disputing. Eg if you owe 2k your disputing 800 (10%) then pay 1200.

    You are probably going to seem unreasonable to not let them fix it. I understand time wasted but tribunal usually doesn't care. I do think 10% is fair but the tribunal might not.

    its not worth fighting financially - which leads me to assume he is blowing hot air, trying to intimidate you but if he is business smart He would realize its not worth it and will probably not do anything other than empty threats.

    • +1

      How much do you still owe?

      We paid the (roughly) 30% deposit prior to the installation. We were not asked prior to Wednesday last week for the balance

      You are probably going to seem unreasonable to not let them fix it. I understand time wasted but tribunal usually doesn't care. I do think 10% is fair but the tribunal might not.

      Thanks for this feedback

      which leads me to assume he is blowing hot air, trying to intimidate you but if he is business smart He would realize its not worth it and will probably not do anything other than empty threats.

      Ok, thanks.

      • We were not asked prior to Wednesday last week for the balance

        Just to clarify this point; we did not withhold the money, we were not asked for payment …

  • +2

    As others have mentioned… Call their bluff. Labour costs will be much higher than the product, as someone earlier stated. I would tell them to do re-do it all. He will most likely cut his losses and leave it in. It is a risk but a calculated one at that which could leave you quite well off. Decisions to be made, really you are left with weighing up the pro's and con's at this point after some good advice from fellow ozbargainers. Good luck to you and I am very interested to know how this situation is rectified.

    • Good luck to you and I am very interested to know how this situation is rectified.

      Thanks.

  • +1

    Inform the company that you will be hiring a removalist for each stage to move the furniture. And that this will be at his cost. And get them to replace it with what you ordered.

    • +1

      And that this will be at his cost.

      I highly doubt we would get the money back from this, nor would they agree to pay the removalists. Whilst I haven't asked them this, it is just a gut feel.

  • +1

    Just curious, you are after a 10% discount. Is this so you can go and buy some rugs or something to give you the acoustics you are after or is it just to punish the company for making a mistake?

    I guess I'm trying to understand if you are happy to live with what they put down, even though it is not what you ordered, and they are better quality, either in appearance or durability (assumption based on them being more expensive)and you have managed to get at least a $200 discount on the original cost and they have offered alternatives which seem reasonable why are you insisting on a 10% discount?

    • -1

      Is this so you can go and buy some rugs or something

      Yes.

      why are you insisting on a 10% discount?

      Does this figure seem unreasonable?

  • +3

    Take the $200 discount and be happy, you are getting a better product.

    My experience as a PM in construction leads me to believe that acoustic properties of similarly sized laminate flooring would be marginal at best and can easily be proven by the contractor as more of the deadening is done by the underlay.

    Unless of course you are specifically talking about reverb which again will be marginal on a LAMINATE flooring product.

    You've got a superior product, and over the run of an entire house would have put the contractor considerably out of pocket already. He has offered you two options to resolve the issue both of which are fair.

    I'd be taking the $200 discount and moving on but that's me.

    Seems like a lot of the people here are the type to say tradesman are crooks so take them to the cleaners, but are merely perpetuating the problem.

    • I'd be taking the $200 discount and moving on but that's me.

      Thanks for your feedback

      Seems like a lot of the people here are the type to say tradesman are crooks so take them to the cleaners, but are merely perpetuating the problem.

      We have actually had a lot of good tradesmen though; like all areas you get some good and some bad …

  • 1) If you don't want any inconvenience, take the $200 and have the matter settled. OR

    2) Since that it is their mistake - you can always negotiate for a discount if you don't feel comfortable with the offered $200. In this case, they have the option to a) offer more reasonable discount to satisfy the customer or b) rip all laid floor boards and they lose the whole lot of floor boards and as well as the labour cost, that's huge.

    3) Sales person (of the timber floor) may give you some wrong information. In fact, the most important part regarding acoustic is the underlay, not the laminate floor board. I was working in the industry. Laminate floor boards are made by compact the materials as high density as the factory can to provide durability and anti- scratching etc. features. High compressed products are NOT good for acoustic. So underlay is the key.

    4) From my experience from my previous job as the manager of timber flooring business, the company won't really like to rip what is already done off as they will make a big lost. The floor board has been used, cut and, and un-boxed, they won't be able to sell them like normal, or totally not usable. So let them know you are kindly want to solve the problem, not to make the case worst.

    The decision is yours :)

    All the best!
    Andrew

    • Thanks for your feedback; we were trying to follow point (2), but the General Manager didn't want to do (a) and offered (b).

      • Then that means 1) The General Manager may not care about the lost or 2) He is trying to be more aggressive and hope you will accept the $200.

        Just don't do anything for a couple days to allow everyone to cool down. And remember that it will cost the flooring company to send a debt collector too, it might be 25% to 50% of the collected money. So they won't take such action till reaching some other points of negotiations (unless the GM is very angry and just aim to make you in trouble).

        But, honestly, since your wife is 5 months pregnant and you have a full time job, does it worth to take the hassle for a small amount of money is the question you have to consider. Given that you are actually happy with the laid laminate floor. And please do remember, most of the jobs are covered by years of warranty, just in case there's some issue in the future, you will still need to contact the company to fix. Maintaining a good relationship is an important thing to take into account too.

        Cheers,
        A.

        • Thanks for your feedback; I wasn't aware of how much a debt collection costs.

          does it worth to take the hassle for a small amount of money is the question you have to consider

          We didn't believe our request was unreasonable at the time we made it

          most of the jobs are covered by years of warranty, just in case there's some issue in the future, you will still need to contact the company to fix

          Point taken.

  • "We didn't receive any terms and conditions of sale when we first made the deposit"

    Did you receive an invoice at all? Does it have model numbers of the flooring on it, cost, installaton cost, dates etc itemized?

    Does the invoice state anything about acoustic properties or requests?

    Are you certain the invoice has no terms concerning deposit and payments, installation dates or timeframes?

    • Did you receive an invoice at all?

      Yes

      Does it have model numbers of the flooring on it, cost, installaton cost, dates etc itemized?

      Yes, it has the make and type of flooring, details costs and shows the dates for what areas to be installed.

      Does the invoice state anything about acoustic properties or requests?

      No

      Are you certain the invoice has no terms concerning deposit and payments, installation dates or timeframes?

      The installation dates are on there (as we broke it into 3 parts), but nothing regarding deposits, payments or timeframes for those …

  • +2

    The company made a mistake. It happens in any profession. Inconvinense rarely gets compensated. Just like when you miss a connecting flight because your departing flight was delayed or canceled and you had the most important financial dealing. No matter what the company is going to take a loss so kindly consider that. My advise ..take the 200 or something in between, Maybe ask them to help you move things due to the new inconvenience caused. However i would say 10% is a reasonable ask.

    • Thanks for your feedback

  • So what is the price difference between the cheaper flooring and the more expensive option?

    • I'm not sure; the difference was about $15 per sq/m and about 97sq/m (from the quote), so possibly $1500? As I mentioned previously, the final decision was not based on price, so beyond the initial quote, we didn't look too much further into it.

  • +15

    Your wife is pregnant. She doesn't need this stress, it isn't good for the baby or your wife. I ended up on bed rest in hospital due to stress during my first pregnancy.

    Take the $200 and the superior flooring.

    Yes the guy was being a toss about it, but probably just because you got a more expensive product and still were wanting a big discount. In his eyes that would be unreasonable. The whole acoustic thing would just be an excuse in his mind.

    Don't let your desire to 'win' against him negatively affect you and your family's life. There are far more important things than $600 and being right.

    • Thanks for your feedback

    • +3

      Best advice.

  • +4

    +1 to YTW.

    You wanted $800, they offered $200. The difference is $600. For $600, you are willing to subject you and your family one or more of these things :

    1. Them threatening you with debt collectors. Whether they are successful or not doesn't really matter. You will lose time and energy especially if you haven't dealt with them before. You will lose more if for some reasons they are successful.

    if the company decides to replace the flooring then :

    1. You will have to spend 3 weeks moving the whole house again. You will have to do this yourself. Think about how much time you need to spend moving those furniture. If you decide to hire removalists, money will be coming out of your pocket.

    2. Stress on your wife's part due to pregnancy.

    3. You possibly taking days off work to move the furniture ( loss on income ).

    4. Living for a few weeks without proper flooring. What if they reschedule? more down time for you.

    5. The company might not be helpful in the future when it comes to warranty claims

    To me, point 1 and 2 will probably worth more than $600 already, so I'll take the $200 and move on.

    Cheers

    • Thanks for your feedback

  • If you are in NSW, my understanding from a conversation with Consumer Affairs within the last 12 months is, that you can claim replacement of the item, out of pocket costs (eg a mover to shift the furniture again) and damages for inconvenience. Suggest you contact Consumer Affairs again and get details from them on your situation. I suspect the company is not entitled to final payment given the work was incorrectly completed. He probably got annoyed on the phone because they had made a mistake and he realised he may have to bear the costs of ripping the floor off as it wasn't your fault. It is stand over tactics to expect you to pay the amount he specified when you have a floor you don't want. That said you should record all conversations, put your position in writing and be very careful and specific about what you are saying and asking for from the company. It would, for example, be reasonable to ask that the floor be replaced to what you ordered (the company won't want that, its too costly for them). Again I strongly advise that you call consumer affairs and lodge a complaint in writing with them ASAP and enquire about your rights again given your specific circumstances. I wish you well.

    • Thank you for your feedback and well wishes.

  • So after carefully choosing the floorboards based on their acoustic properties, you did not notice them being wrong? For 3 weeks, you never noticed that?

    They offered 200$ you wanted 800, ask for 450 and be done with it. From what I see you are also sticking hard on the 800$ too.

    • Thanks for your feedback, please remember that the instruments are packed away whilst we move the whole house around, so there was not a way to test this; the boards look very similar to an untrained eye …

  • Wouldn't the acoustics be an issue regardless of what wood on the floor?
    You would need a rug or wall panels either way.

    Wooden floors are not good for sound regardless.

    • +1

      Thanks for your feedback; actually wooden floors are great to get a 'live' feel, as they generate reverb and feel more natural - if you want to deaden sound (like in a radio station announcers room), then you put carpets and uneven surfaces so the sound waves bounce in differing direction, thus dampening the reverberation …

      • Why would you want reverb for loud drums though? The guitar I get

        • The drums are electric; the volume can be adjusted …

        • Ah electric kit I see

  • +1

    I'd get them to rip it up and lay the correct product that you chose. If you really wanted that in the first place then you will be forever kicking yourself as to why you accepted the wrong product.

    If you had a discussion with the salesperson about acoustic properties and he said that the first one would be better for this purpose then you have a not fit for purpose argument and under consumer law you win that straight away.

    Regardless of the ins and outs if it was me personally I would get what I originally wanted, unless there was a massive difference in the value of the products and I was way ahead with the incorrect one.

    • +1

      The acoustic properties of the two laminate flooring products would have 1/10th's of F-All difference, anyone with industry knowledge would know this and would see straight through this entire argument as a greedy grab for $.

      Customer got a product that was $15 more p/m2, that's massive and they couldn't tell the difference so obviously its visually very similar as well, I would be cheering not trying to weasel more $.

      You've already admitted to the contractor and on here that you couldn't tell the difference between the 2 boards and that you were happy with them, that's already against you and unless there is significant difference in their acoustic ratings, you would not win under consumer law like asdubstep is claiming.

      Please post tech data of the two products and then we can see if you have an argument for it not being fit for purpose.

      • The acoustic properties of the two laminate flooring products would have 1/10th's of F-All difference…

        This is pretty much what I was thinking.

        Customer got a product that was $15 more p/m2, that's massive and they couldn't tell the difference so obviously its visually very similar as well, I would be cheering not trying to weasel more $.

        Again, most reasonable people would be thinking along these lines, especially given the additional offer of $200 cash back on top of the more expensive product at the cheaper price! ;)

        Please post tech data of the two products and then we can see if you have an argument for it not being fit for purpose.

        Agreed. I would like to see this data as well…

        • Please post tech data of the two products and then we can see if you have an argument for it not being fit for purpose.

          Agreed. I would like to see this data as well…

          Do you know where I might find this info? It wasn't on their website (in fact, it's little more than an online brochure) and I'm not sure where to find it … I'd also be keen to see it, as we took the salesmans comments on face value.

        • I'd have been asking the company to provide it for you, given that it was apparently their salesman making the claim to begin with…I tend to agree with h0mbre though, I wouldn't imagine anything more than negligible difference between two similar products of the same oeuvre.

          Good to hear you've resolved it though, I actually think you've done quite well out of it from a bargain perspective. ;)

        • Thanks - I don't think the fact that our final decision was made from a non-financial perspective was captured, as when I spoke to the GM and pointed out this fact he was a bit speechless; also one of the emails that came through from the staff had written that "we couldn't afford" the more expensive flooring, which isn't true.

    • Thanks for your feedback

  • +1

    Sad to hear your situation. This seems to be very common thing to happen with most of the tradie jobs. I have faced to similar situation with every other thing I did in my house. Once a Antenna company gave me a quote after getting the height of the roof and number of connection points. However after coming to do the job and even after braking the roof tile, the guy who came to fix it asked more than 50% extra saying that it's a double story roof which they knew from the beginning. There was no way for me to argue with them and I ended up paying.
    Next time it was a solar company which even came to my house for inspection and gave the quote. After paying the 25% deposit and waiting for almost 3 months for them to install it, they asked for extra $400 the day before the installation date claiming that it's a double story. When I argued that they came for inspection and they had all the details when quoted and I paid the deposit. The only option they gave me was to cancel my order and get the deposit back. They knew it was about to finish the Gov rebate and I had no time to pay another installer and wait again. After pocketing out 150% of the Gov rebates on solar this is how they play with the consumers.
    I had very similar issues with my builder as well and they are much worst. They too played a lot when my wife was pregnant and we had arranged everything to move into the new house. They even managed to get the total price of the house months before issuing the occupancy permit.

    Hope you'll be lucky enough to get this resolved.

    • Sorry to hear you have been having so many problems, and thanks for your feedback.

  • Now the floor is laid, you can test the acoustic aspects, is it acceptable?

    • Thanks for your feedback, we will be testing it

Login or Join to leave a comment