Lost half the money in my super account in less then six months!

pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:17

Hi OzBargainers!

I don't know where to go at this point and I'm turning to you guys for help.

I'm a current uni student and worked for my university and they automatically opened a UniSuper for me. They had deposited ~$450 into the super account out of my ~$2000 pay. I got a letter from UniSuper saying something along the lines of "Welcome aboard to UniSuper" etc etc. Was not sent out ANY info about account fees and other rubbish fees. About six months later after the account was opened for me, I get a statement with a list of fees, what I started off with ($450) and what I have now (~$210). Apparently the administration fees are about $55! then there's a whole list of tax fees? and some other fees to do with death and funeral… I'm only 21 I really don't need death insurance right now.

So my questions are:

  1. I wasn't notified of all these fees, is there anything I can do to claim it back?

  2. Can I close the account and withdraw whatever money there is left in it before they take it all?

  3. If I can't do 2. is there a super fund that anyone would recommend for a uni student who works very occasional casual jobs here and there. With little to no account fees?

  4. Is it even worth having a super account if I make next to nothing and I need to keep as much money as I can in my bank account to pay my bills?

Thanks in advance everyone for taking the time to read through this and/or commenting!

Have a great day :)

Financial

Comments

  • Car-la-la on 04/03/2014 - 12:21
    +7

    You really need to do some research into what super is and it's purpose - of course we'd all prefer to just have the money directly in our bank accounts, but that isn't the way it works

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:23

      I've had a look, and I understand that the purpose is to save money so that when I retire I have money to live off. But I really don't make enough to have a super account, they're eating all my money through accuont fees!

      • studdley on 06/03/2014 - 18:04
        +14

        Incorrect, the purpose of superannuation is to force gen x and y to prop up the stock exchange in order to support baby boomers and the finance industry.

  • aegcp on 04/03/2014 - 12:26
    +2

    you should have been given a booklet detailing everything when you joined UniSuper. did you get this? did you read it?

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:30

      No I didn't which is exactly my point, I got a welcoming letter, then six months later I got a statement with nothing in between.

      • georgedeka on 04/03/2014 - 13:41
        +6

        You would have been sent a booklet, its called a PDS.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:14

          I wasn't sent any booklet, just a welcome letter, then a statement just last month

        • kwaker on 05/03/2014 - 10:27
          +5

          Should have not would have.

        • Cheap Steve on 07/03/2014 - 07:05

          I can back pyro up. Same thing happened to me. No choice of fund form, no Pds. I just got a welcome letter from unisuper a few months after I started casual lecturing.

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:32

          Thanks Cheap Steve.

          Have you also had your super money eroded by the fees? And did you try to contact them in regards to this, I think someone else tried to but with no luck :(

  • Cheeper on 04/03/2014 - 12:31
    +12

    That con of deducting the insurance part can be contested and refunded. Contact your super fund and ask them (in writing) to refund it as you never asked for it or agreed to it.
    The same "con" was pulled on a large workplace I know… when they found out it was quickly sorted.
    A lot of super funds pull that trick.

    Now… with super Y O U can choose to have your account with anyone you choose. Choose a new super fund and online they will have a form you complete and they arrange the transfer.

    You will find that most do have an annual fee or account keeping charges. Those details should be clearly shown online. Super funds give a better return than regular investments thus will negate any fees.

    Google for super funds and have a browse of what is on offer. For one that is generally good all round look at this one… www.australiansuper.com

    Even though it may be a long while off before you will need your super it is worthwhile taking an interest in it as later on you will be very glad you have it. :-)

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:48
      +1

      I have tried to contact them via email and calls with no luck, they don't want to speak to me… is there somewhere I can go to that can do something about this? Apparently I only got a $15 return for my $450 that was in there but they deducted more then that through various fees. Can I ask what are typical fees that I can look at and if there are any other fees associated with having a super other then administrative fees?

      Thankyou xywolap for your help, I really appreciate it!

      • Cheeper on 04/03/2014 - 13:07
        +5

        For such a low amount you will find the fees will eat up any income.
        Until you get a larger amount in there you might need to find one with no fees.

        If the super fund does not reply to you try these people…
        http://www.sct.gov.au/

  • battler on 04/03/2014 - 12:41
    +4

    3) google 'zero fee super'
    example: https://www.ingdirect.com.au/super_and_retirement/living_sup…

    The trade off of zero fees is a (likely) lower rate of investment return.
    For very low balances like yours I would suggest that low returns > high returns less fees

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:51

      Hi Battler,

      I've had a look at it, and I'm wondering if there are any sort of "other" or "hidden" fees at all that aren't listed, I can't seem to find any, but I don't want to join up then find later that they've got a whole bunch of other fees involved that I wasn't aware of.

      Thanks for your help!

      • cannedhams on 04/03/2014 - 20:19
        +2

        Pyro,

        The trade off is that there is a large cash component to that super fund, meaning that ING get your deposit and pay effectively less interest than they would to a retail depositor.

        The fee free part is genuine, however. It is not a bad option for people that want to set and forget their super.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 01:56
          +1

          Hey paizuri,

          Thanks for the clarification! At least my money isn't slowly being drained away

        • Candour on 05/03/2014 - 10:54
          +1

          ing will have manager fees built into its plans there should aussuper which you might ask if you can get into.

          for low balances i thought you should not have to pay fees much as there was a safety net once to help low income earners.

          industry funds like unisuper are generally lower fee than others.

          the taxes you can't get away from as they are government based.

          the insurance may be good in case you die and need a funeral to pay for.

          hard to keep up with PDS etc. not your fault that financial services and business is so complex.
          we would spend all our time reading about all these things if we had to do this for everything, so don't feel bad.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:17

          Are manager fees the same as admin fees or is that different again? Is AusSuper a good one?

          No, they've killed my account with fees unfortunately. I'm in my early twenties I don't think I need funeral/life insurance right now

    • kikoprincess on 05/03/2014 - 17:17

      I've dumped my money in ingredients balanced until I start earning a decent amount. No fees.

  • 2ndeffort on 04/03/2014 - 12:49
    +3

    If you find a way to get out of paying the taxes, I and millions of others would love to know!!

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:53

      That's not what I mean, they had tax insurance fees, and I have no idea what the heck that is!

      I pay my taxes, but I end up claiming it all back because I don't make enough anyway :P

      • bluedufflecoat on 04/03/2014 - 13:34
        +3

        I think super gets taxed at a flat rate of 15%. You can't get this back from the ATO when you do your tax returns…

        • Devils Advocate on 04/03/2014 - 14:05
          +2

          That's right. The investment return is taxed at 15%, and it can't be claimed back no matter your income.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 01:57

          I was referring to the tax that comes off directly from my pay. Does the super that gets taxed come under the name "Tax insurance"?

        • EnALup on 05/03/2014 - 12:15
          +2

          You are paying tax on $2000. Super amount is not taxed and added directly by your Uni to super fund. So it is charged 15% flat as the users said earlier.
          Other charges are: Admin fees and Insurance ( if you have one with the fund)

          You can change the fund and transfer the amount to your new fund and notify your Uni to transfer the amount to the new fund. Make sure before you do that if Uni is fine to change the fund.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:19

          Oh okay, thanks gagans, is the super allowed to have "add-ons" such as insurance without my consent?

        • EnALup on 06/03/2014 - 12:11
          +1

          No they cannot. I have not taken that cover. But it depends on the contract of the company with your UNI. You have have received that in your contract.

  • me786 on 04/03/2014 - 12:51
    +3

    I also recommend Ing Direct for fee free super. Which is suitable for less income earners.

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 12:54

      Thankyou for your input! :) do you know if they have other fees? Or recommend which of the plans would be most suitable for a uni student?

      • Cheeper on 04/03/2014 - 13:04
        +2

        All super funds have web sites which show all the information you are looking for.
        http://www.ingdirect.com.au/super_and_retirement/living_supe…

        • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 13:26

          I'm looking between the balanced and the cash option, but I don't really know what they're on about. Should it matter if they invest it in cash or in shares etc? And with risks does that mean that I could potentially lose money?

        • 1ch1go on 06/03/2014 - 13:29
          +1

          Cash means invested in 100% cash option. So the only risk for you is inflation risk and you will not loose money. With balanced option generally speaking 70% of your fund is invested in growth assets, i.e. aust shares, global shares, listed properties, etc. and 30% in your defensive assets, i.e. cash, fixed interest (like govt bonds). Because of this, balanced option does involve more risk. Which you are right in saying that in a bad market you may experience negative returns. In the long run though growth assets will outperform defensive assets.

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:33

          Thanks for the info 1ch1go!

  • triblk on 04/03/2014 - 13:04
    +1

    You need to check your payslip as your employer should (once you earn more than $450 a month), pay 9.25% of your pay rate to a super fund. $450 based on a pay of $2000 is too much. Did you elect to pay some of your wages in to super as well?

    Every new employee must be given a Choice of Super form where you can elect which super fund you want the $ paid into, if you don't complete and return the form then the employer can use their default fund.

    Also look at the difference between an Industry Fund and a Retail Fund. Compare fees and charges esp. admin fees, if there are any commissions and extras such as life and or disability insurance.

    • pyro love bird on 04/03/2014 - 13:21
      +1

      Hi Tribik,

      I didn't elect to have any money transferred into the super account.

      I was not given a choice, I asked about it but they said that they will open a super account for me. A few of my co-workers had their own super account prior to working for the uni but they also didn't have a choice and had a super opened for them (not sure if they transferred after though).

      I don't know what the difference between the two are, or which one I'm meant to be applying for, do you know if life insurance is optional or do they come with it?

      Thanks :)

      • Cheeper on 04/03/2014 - 13:36
        +2

        The insurance thing is usually optional. You can opt out of that.
        The employer should ask if you already have a fund, usually that is done at the commencement of employment. If you put nil, then they will use their default fund for you which you can move to your fund when you like.
        Some people get an accumulation of super funds throughout life and forget about them.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 01:59
          +2

          I don't recall seeing anything asking if I had a fund already. However I do recall being told that I didn't have a choice and they were opening a unisuper for me..

          Many of my friends are having the same issue as me, working a few different areas for the uni, getting money added to the unisuper, then finding out several months later that there's nothing in it…

        • nikey2k27 on 05/03/2014 - 06:42

          I do abit of work at local uni i have same problem.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:20

          :( all our money!

      • ESEMCE on 04/03/2014 - 13:36
        +2

        You were given a choice, cause it's part of the process for them to set up an account for you..
        At some stage in filling out the taxation paperwork for the job you would have ticked a box that said "Do you want to specify your own Superannuation Provider" or similar and you ticked "No"… that was your choice!
        It's been this way for a number of years now (5-10 years ago you didn't have a choice)

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 01:59
          +1

          nope, definatly didn't have that!

        • ESEMCE on 05/03/2014 - 08:17

          So you haven't filled out tax paperwork? But they're paying you super?
          Sounds like you'll have bigger things to worry about than $450 in lost Super when the ATO come to call!

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:21
          +1

          I gave them my TFN. By didn't have that, I meant there was no little box asking about my super provider

        • lisss on 06/03/2014 - 18:41

          For a normal job you always fill out a TFN form and it always has that box. It may differ for universities as discussed below.

        • DemocracyManifest on 24/05/2017 - 12:17

          @lisss:

          Replying to this very late I know but the reason for this is because you are covered by a EBA at the university and under it UniSuper is your only option, it's also a closed find. In same boat

      • NoApostrophePlurals on 07/03/2014 - 01:17

        Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but none of your actual pay should have been transferred to your super account unless you nominated voluntary contributions. You would have received your net wage after taxable deductions, and the University has to pay an additional percentage by law into a superannuation account. For example, you get paid $100, and $10 goes to tax man, leaving you with $90. Then you get 10% super, which is paid separately to your wage, therefore you have $90 in wage and $10 in super, plus having already paid $10 to tax.

        You keep referring to it as your money or in a way that you seem to think this is an asset that has instant liquidity or can be transferred into a spending/savings account. It is superannuation that can't be touched in essence. I think you might need to detach this kind of mentality as if your super was akin to a home loan offset account.

        Stop referring to your super as your MONEY. It is your superannuation that has a equal monetary valuation as money, but you can't throw denominations of your superannuation at strippers.

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:36
          -4

          It is still MY money. It didn't appear out of nowhere, it was deducted out of my PAY. I would rather not lose what I have.

        • Mik on 09/03/2014 - 08:52
          +2

          No, it wasn't. Super is calculated above and beyond your pay.

        • grasstown on 10/03/2014 - 08:07

          The .25% Super increase has been docked from my annual 2.5% salary increase. Since it came in last year, last year my pay only increased 2.25 (2.27% more exactly).

    • Malarkey on 04/03/2014 - 14:50
      +2

      You have to remember that typically universities pay higher super than the standard 9.25% most seem to pay around %17 which sounds about right for OP.

      Link to Griffith uni, but most others are similar: http://www.griffith.edu.au/future-staff/benefits-conditions/…

      • Cheap Steve on 04/03/2014 - 23:36
        +3

        17% for full-timers only. Casuals are on 9.25%.

        • Malarkey on 05/03/2014 - 09:45

          Thanks for that, learn something new every day :)

  • Cheap Steve on 04/03/2014 - 13:49
    +10

    I casual lecture at a University and they would not let me choose my own super fund. It is compulsory to pay my super guarantee into Unisuper. There are exceptions to the "choice of super" laws, see below.

    Under choice of fund laws many employees are now able to choose their own super fund, with the exception of:

    1. Employees covered by a Federal Industrial Agreement, including Australian Workplace Agreements (AWAs) and Collective Agreements;

    2. Employees covered under a State Award or Industrial Agreement;

    3. Some public servants and individuals working for Government agencies; and

    4. Employees that are members of certain defined benefit super funds.

    • leiiv on 04/03/2014 - 14:47
      +5

      This. I believe all academic or professional staff in most (if not all) Universities do not have any options to switch to other super. It is somehow part of the Enterprise Bargaining Agreement. There must be something fishy in the background that leads to the decision of making unisuper a compulsory one.

    • rohanp16 on 04/03/2014 - 19:47
      +4

      This. I worked at UQ and now UTAS and I was told I cannot switch from my UniSuper account.

    • YTW on 04/03/2014 - 23:42
      +1

      Yep, my husband works for a uni and he isn't allowed to elect another super account because of the collective agreement.

      You may find that you aren't able to elect a different super fund for your SGC to be paid into. But when you leave your job you are allowed to rollover the funds to any super fund you wish.

    • rini868 on 05/03/2014 - 01:52
      +1

      Yeah, I did some casual teaching for some units at my uni for a couple of years and when I asked about changing from UniSuper to my other super fund, they said that it was compulsory for my super payments from the uni to be paid into UniSuper. The fees have basically eaten up what little was paid into the fund. Oh well…

    • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:01
      +3

      Just to clarify, this is inclusive of casual employees? Because if that's the case, it's really not fair that they're taking money away from uni students like that when we barely make anything in the first place!

      If not, that's not fair because the fees are so high they'll end up eating all the money in your accounts.. so they steal it all, and the uni automatically opens one for you so you don't have a choice. This is rubbish.

      • nikey2k27 on 05/03/2014 - 06:45

        It same at james cook uni.

      • leiiv on 05/03/2014 - 12:57
        +1

        Yes, all employees. You can confirm it by asking your HR department. And yes, it is not fair, but what can we do?

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:23

          Unite and fight for our rights!

        • Utopian on 06/03/2014 - 17:17

          That's how you got these current "rights" :-/

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:38

          This is how we're going to correct our current "rights"

      • lisss on 06/03/2014 - 18:43

        If you're tutoring at uni, you're probably making enough money to make it worthwhile to work there regardless of super fees. If you have some other job at uni, just move somewhere else if it's such a big deal…

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:40

          I'm not tutoring. So I don't make a heap of money. Working for the uni means that I can work between classes, I have other family work commitments which makes it difficult to work outside of uni.

      • Cheap Steve on 07/03/2014 - 07:21
        +2

        Yes, it's a nice little racket that Unisuper have got going on. Now that fee protection has disappeared for low balances Unisuper should give casuals either choice of fund or voluntarily provide fee protection for low balances. IMO this would be fair. Otherwise you just get what happens to pyro where you lose half your super before you even see a statement. Now pyro has the hassle of battling it out with Unisuper to cancel insurances and trying to recover fees which will only be paid back on a goodwill basis because she has taken this issue public on social media.

        • pyro love bird on 08/03/2014 - 04:43

          Definitely agree with you, Cheap Steve, they've got it great. The rich(er) are loving them because they've got good returns, those who aren't so well off are losing all their money, having their account closed and reopened multiple times because all the money's been drained out. I also think that giving causal employees that freedom of choice would be fantastic and definitely fair.

    • ESEMCE on 05/03/2014 - 08:19

      I stand corrected… That's rubbish!

  • Make it so on 04/03/2014 - 14:06
    +3

    I saw the title and knew straight away which uni fund you were dealing with.
    Having worked casually at a university, I am familiar with getting my super paid into a unisuper account without even being asked, and the money being gone before you even realised you had an account with them. On more than one occasion has all my money disappeared. It wasn't a huge amount, but it's wrong in principle.

    Not sure you can do much about it, except go through your paperwork and press the issue that you did not consent to this. Nobody should have the right to charge you fees without you putting a signature somewhere.

    • YTW on 04/03/2014 - 23:43
      +1

      I think if the OP went through the paperwork in detail they'd find they actually DID consent to it, probably as part of their workplace agreement. Whether they realised what they were doing at the time is another factor.

      • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:03

        nope. I wasn't notified of this, which is why I feel cheated

        • earths_pacifist on 05/03/2014 - 17:37
          +1

          What YTW means is that you did agree to it by accepting the workplace agreement. Their argument to not notifying you will be that it was all written in the agreement and it was your responsibility to read it.

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 19:12
          +1

          I didn't find anything like this on there though. I'm a little puzzled, and I read through things before I sign them in case of any hidden nasties, I'll have another look though

    • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:02

      Thankyou! I'm glad someone on hear knows what I am going through, it's a pain. (Though I'm sorry to hear that your money disappeared :( )

  • slknv on 04/03/2014 - 14:39

    I do some casual work at melb uni too and not real happy that my super goes into unisuper, especially as I have a SMSF that outdoes any industry superfund!

    That said I'm pretty sure I can always request a transfer of funds across to my SMSF, but for the tiny amount it's barely worth doing the paperwork.

    • Make it so on 04/03/2014 - 15:23
      +2

      That's probably their business model. I bet the majority of people who ever had an account with them were temporary workers (sessional staff) who can't be bothered to move their money out. They pay for the rest of the account holders.

    • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:04

      Can I ask what you mean by tiny amount? And is there a lot of paperwork involved? :/

      • ESEMCE on 05/03/2014 - 08:20
        +2

        He means $450

        • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 14:23

          It's a lot to someone who doesn't have a lot of money

    • sprucemoose on 05/03/2014 - 23:42

      Even if you transfer the tiny amount out you will be charged fees that will eat up a lot of the balance.

      • pyro love bird on 06/03/2014 - 01:08

        This is silly! Seems like either way I lose all my money…

  • Baghern on 04/03/2014 - 15:15
    +6

    Havent looked at super for a long while.

    But back when i worked in it 7 years ago. There was protection for accounts under $1,000, where they could not deduct more than what you gain in fees.

    Though wouldn't be surprised if funds founds a way around this.

    Insurance there should of been an option during your process to open an account, since it was opened for you, you can dispute it.

    Contribution Tax of 15%, can't avoid.

    • Miss Dior on 04/03/2014 - 15:45
      +1

      My old accounts where I have less than $1000 are still applying this rule so I think its still in effect. If they only make you $50 in the year and the fees are $80 then the fees suddenly get reduced to $50. You don't gain any money but you don't lose it either (except by Opportunity Cost for the economists out there). Check that this rule still applies in your state and situation.

    • 1ch1go on 04/03/2014 - 16:16
      +2

      The government removed this protection starting 1 July 2013.

      • grasstown on 04/03/2014 - 18:04
        +3

        Seriously? Is there a link please? Was it publicized?

        • McFly on 05/03/2014 - 14:14
          +1

          For some reason it wasn't advertised in the same way as eg. school halls was.
          First they steal people's money from inactive accounts after just 3 years - yeah, not so much advertising on that one either! - then they change the law to make low earners lose all their super.
          Labor - still caring for the aussie battler.

    • pyro love bird on 05/03/2014 - 02:11

      Hey Baghern,

      I'm majorly bummed that I'm losing money though… I worked hard for that $450 and it's just gone down the drain! I wasn't given any information on the super account they opened for me, I tried to speak to my uni but they said that unisuper was a different organisation and I should speak to them, I've tried but I'm not getting anywhere so I don't know what to do.

  • [Deactivated] on 04/03/2014 - 15:37
    -6

    Super is a con. You do without today in the hope of a better future tomorrow. But then the government stuffs something so the whole market crashes as it did a few years ago. Let your employer put in the minimum they have to. But use your own money to educate yourself in money/wealth/investing instead. The exception to this would be a SMSF involving something tangible like property - not the stock market - which is essentially gambling on other people's emotions, and can bankrupt even the experts (well, until they find they weren't so after all).

    • Malarkey on 04/03/2014 - 16:00
      +7

      The only people that were adversely affected during any market crash are the people who are planning to retire within the next say 5-10 years of the event. Other than that your not really suffering any kind of financial impact. Hell, imagine if you had of purchased a big pile of Commonwealth shares when they bottomed out at $25. As long as your not planning to retire soon and making your standard regular contributions any crash wouldn't really have any impact on you.

      It's the same for property, the only two times property prices are important is when your buying and when your selling.

      • NoApostrophePlurals on 07/03/2014 - 01:21

        How can I take your advice seriously when you can't even distinguish the difference between "your" and "you're"?

    • YTW on 04/03/2014 - 23:50
      +6

      Really? I don't even know where to start with all that misinformation. Take your own advice and educate yourself more on investing and you may find it pays dividends.

    • ESEMCE on 05/03/2014 - 08:24
      +5

      Rubbish statement…Property has no better reliability than the stock market (arguably less). You only lose money if you choose to sell…
      The stock market is already back in the ballpark of where it was before the recession and things have barely started to look good globally.. there's a long way for it to climb yet!

      • [Deactivated] on 05/03/2014 - 13:42
        -3

        Love the comments repeated back rote from stock market spruiking books. Also love the "as long as you don't want to retire right now" comments. And yes, everyone wants to wait (keep working) 3, 5, (or maybe 10 or 15 years next time - if at all?) for it to recover so they can finally retire - and drop dead, LOL.

        • [Deactivated] on 06/03/2014 - 08:09

          Funny how you accuse this person of spruiking, as you were spruiking property!

        • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2014 - 09:52

          If you care to look again you'll see the word "like". And I didn't accuse anyone of spruiking anything - just pointing out people read pro-stock market books then repeat their comments that promote the stock market as if they're their own. i.e. The authors have a vested interest in selling their book.

      • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2014 - 10:17
        +1

        Back in the ballpark of where it was before… Oh you mean it's back to being an overinflated bubble, LOL.

        Actually it doesn't matter if it's up, down, or sideways. The indisputable fact remains the engine of the stock market is other people's emotions. If there's a negative newspaper article and people suddenly think doom and gloom about a company, the price dives. Stock market "assets" are just numbers in a ledger with no tangible value. It relies on most of the people continuing to agree x is worth y. Few would disagree most people in the world today are idiots. I'm not leaving my future in the hands of the emotions of idiots.

        When on the other hand something like property crashes, at least you still own the property and still collect rent. Sure the stock market can recover over time and you don't lose unless you sell. But this isn't a valid point, since the SAME is true for real assets (like property). However the real difference that matters is, while a company can be wiped out of existence by people's emotions overnight - buildings only get wiped from existence by bulldozers. (And you would still own title to the land.)

        • [Deactivated] on 08/03/2014 - 10:54

          Oh - and you can insure buildings against some idiot driving a bulldozer into it. You get to replace (nearly for) free with a new one. There's no insurance when idiots bulldoze down your stock market "assets". Waiting 5-10 years for the market to recover matters zip if the company went into receivership.

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