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  mskeggs on 19/02/2014 - 13:18

  What happens when you want to move house?

  • 

    mskeggs on 19/02/2014 - 13:22

    From the FAQ after you register:
    What if I move house?
    Sungevity Australia can help when it comes time to sell your house. Generally you can simply transfer the agreement to the new owners, subject to credit approval, or pay out the remainder of the term. Fees and charges may apply which you'll need to discuss with Sungevity Australia and the finance provider.

    Having a solar system on your roof can be a valuable asset and could add value to your property. Sungevity Australia will provide supporting material to help your real estate agents translate the benefits of your solar service.

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  mskeggs on 19/02/2014 - 13:23

  So it is actually a solar panel financing arrangement where you lease the panels over 15 years and the lease firm maintains them.
  Each quarter you get a bill from the lease company, that they calculate will be less than the cost of traditional power would have been.

• 

  xsacha on 19/02/2014 - 15:54

  If I'm not mistaken, if you bear the cost of the solar panels yourself and then pay no money for electricity for the next 15 years then you actually get it for much cheaper than 23c/kwh.

  Let's take an example of a 2kwh system, costing $3,000 with usage of 6kwh per day (could be higher, in which case even more benefit!). This is a very conservative estimate.
  Assume a battery backup but no energy exported to grid (exporting to grid would benefit you much more, up to 8-10kwh a day).

  So basically this is worst case scenario to the max!
  6kwh * 365 * 15 = 32850 kwh saved over 15 years.

  I will put in an extremely conservative figure of 5-10% increase per year. That's an effective price of ~50c/kwh (~6%). 50c is a 78% simple increase which is the rate you would be paying after about 6 years at 10% yearly.

  Now let's see what they give you in return. Again, assuming an average electricity price of 50c/khw. They only charge 23c. That's 27c/kh discount over 15 years. 27c * 32850 = $8,869.5. They don't pay this but you essentially have this discount.

  What do you pay for the privilege? 23c/khw is $7517.55 over 15 years.
  So, yes, in the worst case scenario they still profit almost $5000. In the best case scenario it could be much much more. $10,000+.

  This company is essentially getting a free solar farm on your behalf. Instead of paying for land and then negotiating a feed-in tariff rate to an electricity company, they are simply buying the solar panel and then getting a secured guaranteed 23c/kwh by selling you the power that your roof generates over 15 years.

  • 

    mskeggs on 19/02/2014 - 16:10

    This is not a worst case. In most states now the grid export value is paltry (NSW is 8c kWh).
    Worst case is if you are out all day and using none of the generated power, so it all goes to the grid.
    Using your figures of 6kWh/day, it would generate $175 a year.
    Not clear why you are making assumptions like a battery backup or 5-10% cost inflation (this year NSW is under 2%)
    I agree that solar is a great investment for almost every home owner, but your numbers are a bit confused and rest on strange assumptions.
    You are right you will likely get more benefit from paying up front, even accounting for the time cost of money, but this deal is good if there is no way you can afford the $3k to do it up front.

    Some more realistic assumptions:

    • generate 4kwh per installed kW per day
    • 50% is used, 50% exported.

    This would deliver $255 in electricity savings/off-sets per year, approx 12 year payback with no net present value discount or allowance for power price inflation. If you use more than 4kWh in daylight on average, your payback will be quicker.

  • 

    SlickMick on 20/02/2014 - 08:45

    Is $3000 for a system with battery backup a realistic price?
    I'll be off installing these in 3rd world countries (just after I do my house) if that's the case.
    My understanding is they're 10x that??

    I missed out on the government ridiculous deals at the start and feel a bit burnt to get on board now. Need to stop being lazy and do some research and maths.

    unless somebody wants to spell it out for me?? :)

    • 

      mskeggs on 20/02/2014 - 09:08

      +1

      Cheapest battery backed system I know of is about $5k for the battery part, and that only stores about 5kWh. Depending on the battery technology you probably don't want to be deep discharging it either.
      In terms of financial viability, it depends how much power you use when the sun is shining.
      If you work from home or have people there all day, run aircon, have a pool pump or other loads you can run in daylight it could be very worthwhile.
      If you don't, and the solar is mainly heading out to the grid the payback is much longer.
      The ATA, who are good people, did an analysis showing payback periods for different percentages exported:
      http://www.ata.org.au/news/latest-solar-payback-times

      I quibble with their numbers a little as it looks like they based it on $2500 per kW installed, and I think you can get a good system for quite a bit less ($3k for 2kW is reasonable imo). They also set the power cost at 35c kWh which is a touch high.

      But the summary conclusion that solar is most cost effective when you use most of the solar generation on-site is true.

      • 

        Noblejoker on 20/02/2014 - 14:10

        Thank you for your thoughts and the ATA link
        VERY informative

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  Libbers on 20/02/2014 - 08:34

  -2

  You need to install at least a 5kw system. You're wasting your money with anything smaller.

  • 

    mskeggs on 20/02/2014 - 09:11

    No idea why you would say this.
    Unless you use upwards of 25kWh a day in daylight (very high usage, the average nationwide over 24 hours is 21kWh with most of that in the evening) you will be exporting most of the power to the grid and only getting paid 8c kWh.
    It will take a long time to pay off that way.

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  ramshead on 20/02/2014 - 10:41

  +1

  Solar can be very cost effective if you get the appropriately sized system for your situation. I was fortunate to speak to a very informed (and honest ) sales rep who convinced me the system I had in mind was too big for my needs. As other posters have stated, the max benefit comes from using what you produce. In my case I use timers (on a lot of appliances these days) to maximise my electricity use while the sun is shining. With My 3 KW system I average about $40 credit each 3 months from feeding the grid (8c feed in tariff). That's $160 a year- bugger all. With 4 in the family and smart usage, I estimate i will recoup initial costs in 6 years. I've had my system for 2 years so far and am obviously very happy with it.

  • 

    Noblejoker on 20/02/2014 - 14:12

    Can you expand on timers use
    Are you saying you set the washing machine to start at noon etc
    What else can you do this with I wonder?

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  Cheshire Cat on 20/02/2014 - 17:59

  I was sent this deal as well. Essentially they are signing you up to buy a certain amount of power whether you use it or not. So as many have said if you aren't at home to use the power generated than this is likely a terrible deal. If you are then it's a trade off in paying now or later basically.

  In my opinion it's likely going to be better to just go it alone rather than use this method. They have obviously done the maths and on 15 year contract they are going to be making a tidy profit.

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  ramshead on 21/02/2014 - 10:48

  Appliance inbuilt Timers are on dishwasher,washing Mach, oven,etc. pool pump has PowerPoint timer, temp rite has PowerPoint timer,etc.

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  Libbers on 22/02/2014 - 14:01

  Everyone we know who has installed smaller systems say it was a waste of money, made no difference to their power bill. The others who went for the bigger systems are all getting credits. Our bill has gone from $3000 a year to $200.

  • 

    mskeggs on 25/02/2014 - 21:53

    Not to harp on it, but you are mistaken, or your information is well out of date.
    It is not credible for a residential install to drop 90%+ these days.
    You must have installed your system when gross feed in tariffs were available. That is no longer the case.
    The best system now is one that generates approximately your daylight usage.
    If you have an average bill, that is likely to be around 2kW.
    Since the cost to install 3kW is not much more, I would be inclined to do that and try to move more power use to daytime.
    A 5kW system will produce 20-25kW a day, likely more than most homes use in daylight, meaning you would be paying to install panels to generate power you can only sell for 8c a kWh.
    Do the math, but 8c probably never pays for itself if you factor in any opportunity cost. If power price inflation runs above inflation it would pay after about 12 years.