I was just wondering if anybody would be interested in maintaining an OzBargain recommended PC build thread, much similar to Whirlpool recommendations, but with more of a focus on bang for the buck components…etc.
I actually wouldn't mind putting one together and having it stickied and regularly updated…etc.
Yeah, that was the issue I was thinking of too. But maybe a good idea would be to get a general consensus on good ratios, e.g. for a gaming system, what %ge should be devoted to the GPU…etc. and then from there, just looking for good value parts to fit the ratio and the budget.
It'd be good to do because there are a lot of "please suggest specs for me" type threads here and a lot of deals posted which might be cheap for the parts you're getting, but hardly a good set of parts that would go well together for the purpose.
maybe a good idea would be to get a general consensus
It's a worthwhile idea… but some people are just incapable of respecting the consensus and the specified criteria. Don't be surprised if you one day find every mention of 'i5 w/ 8GB of RAM' replaced with 'i7 w/ 16GB of RAM', regardless of the particular budget and requirements.
I'm interested but I think this would need to be divided in to categories.
Eg. Cheapest HTPC
Cheapest gaming rig
Cheapest home office
Yep, that's exactly what I'm hoping to do! :)
You're welcome to start your own Wiki page if you wish to, paulsterio. The wiki is free for anyone to edit —- just bear in mind some people have differing opinions, so you need to be aware of the work involved in wiki maintainance.
Speaking of which, I started the "student specific deals" wiki in 2010 but I've yet to find anybody to maintain it. ..
Alrighty, I think I'll take that option. Hopefully 15 - 20 mins per day should be enough. I'm on holidays soon, so I'll have a bit of time to kill, but hopefully this should be heaps of fun.
So what categories would most people like to see?
4 categories should be enough.
General or budget build (non-gaming, non-power user)
HTPC build (emphasis on small size and lower power consumption)
Gaming build (self explanatory)
Power user and multi-use build (emphasis on CPU performance)
Might I just say that if this works out — it can allow for PC vendors to specifically offer one 'build' on a deal. I like the idea.
Also Editing PC Builds?
So how do I create a Wiki? Clicked on the Wiki tab, but can't seem to find anything!
Awesome, thanks a lot!
Okay, I'll get started on it now, but we can keep this as a discussion thread for it and stuff, that'd be good :)
Here's a pretty good start on it
http://whirlpool.net.au/wiki/rmp_sg_whirlpoolpcs
Bang-for-buck would really depend on how much money you want to use
Yeah, I would have thought the whirlpool builds covered this, are maintained better and already have knowledgeable people behind them to keep them current.
why double up when we can link to what is already a decent sample on Whirlpool?
Saying broadly the same thing -
If the build is not what you want, why not start an OzBargain build on Whirlpool?
How's it looking so far guys?
It's ok. I have a different idea of what I would suggest for the 'budget' and 'all-rounder'.
The budget PC is just that… So I'd leave out the SSD.
I've had more than enough WD greens fail on me. I'm a WD fan but I steer clear of the greens because they always seem to break when I'm around.
I'll make a note that other HDDs are available for the price, e.g. Seagate.
What would you suggest for the all-rounder?
Personally, if I had to leave something out of the budget, it'd be the hard drive, but I'll make a "Cheapest" option soon, which is even more cut down than budget (i.e. below what I would recommend for anyone).
Went for the compromise route with the budget PC, chucked in an SSHD
Could you recommend a dual/multi-monitor setup? Never had one and whirlpool wiki doesn't seem to have a recommendation either.
What will you be doing on it? If it's just general web browsing / office work, any old motherboard with >1 video output (AKA, everything I'm aware of) will support two monitors. If you want more than that, you'll generally need a graphics card for the increased number of outputs.
If you're playing games, then it's important to get a more powerful GPU to support the increased resolution that comes with using a double or triple monitor setup.
If no gaming is involved, then it's not even necessary at all to have a video card, even integrated HD3000 Intel graphics will do dual display just fine with a motherboard that supports HDMI + DVI out.
As issh linked, Whirlpool have already made a similar wiki. The problem with the Whirlpool wiki is that there is no basis to their selections and no alternatives given. I would prefer (for example) a GTX 680 to an AMD 7970 if it could be found on sale 10% cheaper.
I was hoping someone would eventually develop and maintain something on OzBargain for all different types of technology. For example, someone might decide they want to buy a (insert anything generic here, e.g. mirrorless camera, 50" plasma, laptop, etc.) for under $500 and may want to know what the most popular models are at that price range, what stores keep the lowest price, what stores have the best price during sales, how frequently sales occur, etc.
Everyone seems to hate Greens, so I've just made all the HD options seagate. I have also added an optical drive to most builds.
Thoughts on the part selection:
ElCheapo:
Do we need the AMD option here? I can't see how it is a good option, and anyone who has decided that is what they really want isn't going to need this anyway. I suggest removing it.
Budget:
Same as ElCheapo on AMD option.
All-Round:
'MSI B85-G43' is $34 more than the Asus H81M-E and $21 more than the cheapest B85 board. What is the thinking here?
This build skips over the i3-4130. While I could understand this there are no builds that use this crazily good value CPU ($65 savings). Personally for this budget I would put the i3 in.
8GB DDR3 Kit - Kingston: Two singles are actually cheaper. MSY of course gives you almost no details on what the product really is though.
High Tier:
Not sure how worthwhile the 4670 is over the 4440, but I guess this is 'High Tier'. Motherboard: Again, why this one? Still B85, but not the cheapest. I would also up the SSD to 240 for this tier - having all your usual program/games on the SSD makes a huge difference.
Personally, I'm not a fan of the AMD option either, but I do want to be fair to AMD and there are a lot of people out there who are pretty brand loyal to AMD. The last thing I would want is to have the whole "you're an Intel fanboy" thing going on.
Is there any reason to go Z87 over B85, apart from overclocking? I know there's a few features here and there, but I doubt any of them would be worth the extra money.
I went with an ATX B85 for more expansion slots and DIMM slots.
I'm thinking along the lines that anyone who needs this guide isn't going to benifit too much from more PCIE or DIMM slots. Hell, even I almost never use them.
To me the main thing on 81->85->87 is USB3 and SATA 3 go 2->4->6. Not that I think this justifies an 87, more often it fails to justify an 85.
PCI-E is pretty important for a home PC though, like when I was building one for a relative of mine, I was filling them up pretty quickly.
Like, the graphics card takes up the 16x slot.
Then he wanted like a wireless NIC and TV tuner.
So like, that's already three PCI-E slots. Most mATX boards only have two PCI-E slots, and sometimes like one or two PCI, you can't really get a lot of things in PCI anymore.
DIMM slots, well yeah, I guess you're right on that, but I've upgraded from 2 x 2GB to 4 x 2GB on my previous computer, so I guess having 4 DIMM slots does come in handy.
But yeah, if you're spending $750 on a computer, it's like $30 for the upgrade potential, hardly a huge amount considering the amount you're already spending.
Wifi and TV tuners mostly come in USB these days, it is plenty for these tasks.
USB is a clunky and a little ugly though, I don't like all those things hanging off the back of my computer! :P
They're also far more user friendly.
Also, why i3 on the Kill Your Console as opposed to the Pentium?
Does Hyper-Threading really make that much of a difference?
If we go with an i3, I'm thinking we can just go with AMD and get an x6 FX processor ($110-ish) with an AM3 motherboard? Performs better than the i3 for lower cost.
I don't think you can claim to compete with the XB1 on a Pentium. Yes the GPU is still more important, but there are substantial gains to be had with hyperthreading in certain games.
Happy to swap for a X6 instead, this was just easier as a starting point.
I was just about to change, but looks like you've done it, thanks for that!
Also, why 500GB HDD on the El-Cheapo PC, I find it just a little hard to suggest this when you get double the storage for $12 more. Like, that's the cost of a day's lunch, hmm.
But yeah, I guess cheapest means cheapest :)
The tables look much cleaner, good job on the formatting whoever did that.
Just a quick note that since this is somewhat of a collaborative effort, people might want to hold back on the first person pronouns and go for a passive voice.
I did the tables (there is a history). Still working on the wording, have made some fixes.
Just a thought, but i believe we should include the OS cost into it as well.
Also, i'm not so sure 2G ram would be enough these days (referring to El-Cheapo) perhaps reduce the HDD capacity to get a 4G ram? 500G-750G should be enough for everyday use (currently using <100G total for a normal office use PC.
Cheers
I agree with reduce HD, but I'ld probably keep the RAM low. The system isn't meant to be good, just cheap. For many users they probably wouldn't notice/care about the lack of RAM (thinking mostly of users who only do one thing at a time).
I'm not quite sure on this, but doesn't the internal GPUs use up RAM too? If Win7 uses up roughly 1.7Gb and the internal GPU takes the Ram as well, everything else would go to virtual mem.
Not quite sure about the memory use of Win8 though.
Very efficient actually. It will be ok for people who just run office and browse. I have an older e8500 desktop that runs smoothly with 2gb of ddr3.
haha thought as much. i didn't know because i don't actually have win 8
If Win7 uses up roughly 1.7Gb
Where did you get this from? It is a made up number. Also what scrimshaw said.
haha its based on my own usage is all. i closed alot of my startup programs too
Note that 'usage' in Windows doesn't mean much. Windows will try to use as much as it can, after all what is the point in freeing memory if you still have some left unused?
Yeah actually based on my work comp… its only using 750mbs… lol guess it differs from computers and the amount of ram it has
Just a thought, but i believe we should include the OS cost into it as well.
I agree. I highly doubt many people will be interested in running Linux or any other Windows alternative - and the lack of OS makes the entire purchase look deceptively cheaper than it most likely will be. It's a bit silly telling people to budget for the OS themselves when it's a guide to budgeting for the rest of the PC. At least make note of the price and availability of Windows (7 or 8) somewhere
i am not a hardware enthusiast so that whirlpool thread always comes in handy to build bang for buck pcs.
good idea to start our own here one on ozbargain.
neither but a big thank you to the community for doing this.
Just saw this thread and think the idea of the wiki is a great idea! Keep up the good work :)
This thread topic is new and exciting.
Hmmm… the Mid Tier PC has a Core i5 but the high Tier PC has a Core i3?
Yeah I tried to add Windows into places and then made some cost adjustments, but they are unfinished and unplanned.
Feel free to fix it up.
Alright. I'm going to remove the Blu-ray media — few people actually demand BD playback from a computer, and they can decide on a case-by-case basis on whether they actually require one.
Since Windows is a fixed cost, I honestly think that we should just make a note about how much an OEM license costs and where they'd be able to get one.
I'm thinking of adding a section at the end just detailing all of this, talking about add-ons and software alternatives.
So I'll have a section that discusses Windows and other high quality free alternatives, e.g. Ubuntu, as well as free versions of popular software e.g. LibreOffice, OpenOffice.org, The GIMP…etc.
I'll also add in an "additional hardware" section where I'll discuss things such as wireless NICs, TV tuners, sound cards…etc. as well as peripherals such as monitors, webcams, keyboards and mice.
I also agree with Scrimshaw on the notion of optical drives. None of my desktops (I own two desktops and a home server) have an optical drive. Whenever I need one, I just pop it into my laptop and make an iso. It's kinda ironic though, that my laptop has one, but it's a T420.
Should also mention student pricing. Students can buy Win8 full ver. digitally for $69.99 via the Microsoft shop. Some people don't know this and buy an OEM for $100+, so this represents a saving of $40 for anyone who has access to a .EDU email.
http://www.microsoftstore.com/store/msaus/en_AU/pdp/productI…
Also try to clear up this misunderstanding.
Some people seem to think they can no longer use software bought at student prices after they've stopped attending uni.
also agree with Scrimshaw on the notion of optical drives. None of my desktops (I own two desktops and a home server) have an optical drive. Whenever I need one, I just pop it into my laptop and make an iso.
This is fine for you but not the average home user. Not having any optical drive will really be a big issue for the home user who just wants to play their CDs/DVDs/Games. There is also the issue of how to install an OS.
I'm split on Blu-Ray. Sure it hasn't really taken off, but for a general purpose machine I really think Blu-Ray video is pretty typical.
Important: Windows 8.1 full version is for Windows 7 users only
Does that mean it will only work if you currently have Win 7 and want to upgrade to Win8.1? Or will it work for a brand new system without any Windows OS ?
"This graphics card also has HDMI output, so you can choose to plug this system into your TV or home entertainment system for a console-like experience instead of purchasing a monitor."
I don't like this, it implies that you have to be particular to get this. Any of the builds have DVI, which is (almost) the same thing, and most (if not all) TVs have VGA anyway.
I'm also really against no optical drives. $16 for a DVD RW adds a lot of functionality for a home user.
True actually, I'd be happy with that being taken out.
I'd be okay with $16 DVDRW drives, but I really don't like the idea of Blu-Ray drives at the moment. Nothing apart from movies are available on Blu-Ray and even then, it really hasn't taken off, at the end of the day though, I'm just not sure if it's worth $40.
That's quite a lot of money, considering, for the price, you can upgrade from a 2TB HDD to a 3TB one, or other little upgrades like that.
Heres a cool website that does something similar http://www.logicalincrements.com/
Found it in thread http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/118716 a while ago and it seems really helpful.
It takes a lot of effort to maintain recommended PC builds because everyone tends to have slightly different needs and new PC parts keep coming out on a regular basis. Honestly, there are enough sites around already.
Just some general pointers for the time being:
- An SSD will make a lot of difference. You want at least a 120GB SSD (preferably 240/256GB SSD).
- If you want to do 3D gaming, then the GPU (graphics card) is important.
- If you are not doing heavy 3D rendering, movie/video encoding/decoding in full HD, heavy graphics work, or lots of 3D gaming, then i5 / i7 is generally an overkill.
Not really, PC parts don't come out that regularly, it's maintaining the prices that's more work, tbh.
But yeah, I agree with your pointers. SSD is the key!
I would suggest replacing the 256GB Plextor M5S in the Extreme High-End Gamer build with a Samsung 840 EVO 250GB. Its about another $20 but the reliability and performance justify the price.
Additionally, do you think having a similar Hackintosh guide would be a good idea?
Hackintosh is very niche, and besides all the good (and regularly updated) guides are already on OSX86 wiki and TonyMacx86. They are also very long-write ups, and I don't think anybody here wants to do those…
Yeah that's fair enough.
The Plextor M5S is a very fast SSD in its own right.
http://www.anandtech.com/bench/product/631?vs=965
Reliability is something that's quite hotly debated, but Plextor is a pretty reliable brand. I've never had an SSD fail on me and I've owned Intel, Samsung, Sandisk and Plextor drives.
My oldest Intel drive is like almost five years old and it's still alive, so this should be fine.
Fair enough. Its just that a site did a month long test to actually make the Samsung 840s fail and came up with a max usage lifetime of at least 75 years. Not bad eh?
paulsterio, I think you're doing great.
I propose a few changes…
El-Cheapo PC:
- Change the OS from Ubuntu to Mint. From personal experience, building a machine that is more 'Windowsy' is often received a lot better than one that isn't. Linux Mint is targeted towards ex Windows users.
Budget PC:
- IMHO Windows 8 = Balls. Go for Windows 7.
As far as the alternate (slightly more expensive) options go, I don't think they are going to be of any benefit to anyone. If someone wanted to go for AMD/Intel over the other then they would also know enough to design and build a machine of their own anyway.
Home Server:
For a long time I've been using an eeePC. There is more than enough processing power and it has a built in UPS :). Additional storage is a little difficult but USB attached storage may not be out of the question for some applications.
epic thread necro.
No new updates? Dissapointing :( Have you forgotten about the wiki you proposed to start already paul?
The problem is moderation. There are a lot of different views on what components are worthwhile and what are now.