Hi,
Just wondering if anyone has had a call from ING citing that their Card Usage terms and your usage pattern doesnt work within their Terms and Conditions?
ING Paywave - Account put on HOLD!
GLO on 30/09/2013 - 07:29
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How are you using it?
About a month ago I recall there was another OzBargainer that was taking advantage of the 50c bonus for withdrawing $200 from EFTPOS multiple times a day, everyday.
paying escorts and strippers via paywave/pay and go…
Is that you Craig T. ?
http://ingdirect.com.au/pdf/Orange_Everyday_Terms_and_Condit…
On page 39 of the current terms and conditions it states that ING may place a stop or freeze on your account if"you have not conducted your account in a satisfactory manner to us or for any other reason we reasonably consider
appropriate"They did the same to me and then closed my account. This is despite the fact that I have a home loan with them and pay over $16,500 each year in interest on the loan.
Unfortunately for me, my loan is currently fixed at 6.3% and the exit fee to leave during the fixed period is crazy. So I am stuck with them until October next year.
Are you sure (checked it using a spreadsheet)? BTW… And don't forget this: https://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/129040
"you have not conducted your account in a satisfactory manner to us or for any other reason we reasonably consider appropriate"
seems like a rather broad and vague term
Need more background info from OP to determine whether this is legit…
I'm guessing it has to do with making multiple transactions to pay for items to rort the 5 per cent offer.
Multiple sequential paywave transactions seems wrong to me. The credit card companies say there's a max $100 per transaction for security, but if a thief was able to buy like $800 worth of goods using a stolen card by tapping it 8 times, then it just seems wrong.
I am surprised that the credit card companies don't clamp down more and make it that subsequent transactions at the same merchant require a pin.
maybe the OP signed up again to get the 5% rebate
Multiple sequential paywave transactions seems wrong to me.
you could achieve exactly the same thing by buying individual gift cards
Sorry for late reply.
I believe that my payments for a set of tyres had triggered the alert within ING.
They put the account on hold and waited till I called in to see what was going on.
I was put onto a Supervisor who said that multiple transactions at the same retailer on the same day would constitute 'conducted in an unsatisfactory manner clause'
In my case, both my wife and I have linked cards. I'm often sent back to the Supermarket to pick up stuff she forgot. Sometimes its hours later, or it may be to run straight back in to grab whatever.
Filling up fuel for 2 cars is another example of legitimate multiple transactions with the same merchant on the same day.
She said it was for every day purchases!
Anyway, she removed the HOLD and I asked her when my discount is valid to, and she advised it was listed till June 2014. Go Figure.
Wait, til June 2014?
Isn't that 2-3x as long as it should be?
if it is 6 months then i supposedly only have 1 month left.
but maybe they are happy with the amount of business they have won away from my other CC provider.
So far its about 1/2 of my monthly CC spend.Could be more but the $100 limit is tough when you are feeding a family with 4 kids from 2yo to 10!
Love to find a way to pay some bills using this paywave!
As someone on OZB pointed out a while ago, these problems arise because ING advertisements indicate they (ING) benefit when we use the card at ATM, with Paywave, or withdrawing cash for 50c bonus. They didn't let us know clearly what their limits are.
I HAVE used the card for multiple Paywave payments for the one purchase (> $100), at SCAuto etc. Didn't get a call. I think they are being unprofessional and should state what they want upfront.
Anyway it's been fun, the fun ends for me 14/10 unfortunately.
you can renew it ;)
Yeap, I'm going to try. Not sure whether closing existing OE and SM accounts first is best, then apply a week or two later. That way you can answer the question "Are you already an ING DIRECT customer?" without possible later repercussions. They could do something later to those people that lied dont you think?
Anyway just decided to play it safe.nah. dont worry too much..
i already have 5 different client ids with them..
I got a call from ING recently about my account use. I had to pay a ~$1000 Origin bill at Australia Post and also bought about 10 gift cards at the supermarket. I even spread the gift cards out over 2 days. I think my 10 repeated transactions, followed by the several consecutive transactions for the same amount over the next few days must have flagged my account for "not using the cards as intended - daily purchases".
i suspect they were more worried about a possible lost/stolen card and someone going on a spending spree. if that was the case then they are just being diligent (which is good).
I wonder what the biggest bill anyone has paid and still managed to get the rebate.
I think someone once paid their uni fees, which was over 4000. I am not sure how the cashier accepted 40 odd payments, must be a real nice old lady.
Can you pay Origin bill at Auspost using ING CC? Most of utilities bill can't be paid with CC hence no payWave…
Origin bill can most definately be paid via paywave at auspost. I did it a couple days back ;)
I purchased over $1500 worth of gift cards but did not get any call from ing.
Bought just under $2k worth of oils on the weekend, and they put my account on hold. I was forced to split my transactions up into multiples due to quantity restriction.
Said i was abusing the system, mind you, i own a mechanic workshop and almost on a daily basis will buy things from one of the auto parts suppliers.
they wouldn't give me what is constitute as abuse either. haven't stopped me from using pay wave on my other purchases.
When they rang me and told me they would be closing my account they said they didn't consider my usage to be acceptable. When I asked for a definition of acceptable usage they said that any usage which appears to be different to the usage you would make of the account if the promotion was not available is unacceptable. So basically they offer a promotion to attract customers, but you have to act as if you were not attracted by the promotion. How crazy is that?
In which case I would have replied. A quantity of three bottles was applied per transaction.
Even without the rebate I couldn't have done any different.
Message to ING & customers:
My opinion -
A bank account should set clearly defined limits and rules (unamgiguous), and allow customers to use the account any legally permissable way they want beyond the stated limits/rules.I seriously think ING should replace/retrain current management, set 'clear' account usage parameters, and STOP nit-pickng and accusing their customers (it's over 6 months now) of a variety of abuses (which are just normal, predictable and legal behaviour).
If they continue to blame their customers for their own shortcomings/immaturity, they may create longterm resentment, instead of goodwill which I assume was intended.
No other bank in history has done any of this sort of ongoing customer bitching/abuse to my knowledge.
What i find even more surprising is that even after explaining that quantity limits were applied and therefore i wasn't breaking them up but rather circumventing the quantity restriction, they still accused me of using my account in an unacceptable manner.
when pressed for clear usage perimeters so that i can avoid getting into trouble, i was told that there are no set limits. so which one is it? it seems that ING leaves ambiguity and then uses it against the account holder as the see fit.
I think ING might avoid this mess if they just set a monthly rebate limit of say $100 or $200. And restricting the 2%/5% rebate on any transaction types they deem unsuitable, such as giftcards or utility bills.
Then customers could use their accounts freely. And ING would save a lot of time & hassle.
No other bank in history has done any of this sort of ongoing customer bitching/abuse to my knowledge.
'No other bank in history' has opened themselves up to the type of abuse as they have done with this offer. If you are going to milk an offer in a way that you know full well it wasn't intended, when they start to object to it, suck it up, princess, instead of making THEM out to be the whingers.
I bought 3 of $50 Wish gift cards from Coles as Christmas presents and got a call advising me that the 5% return will be stopped if it happens again. Now I don't use it frequently and the 5% will expire end of this month anyway.
$150 sounds very unreasonable. After all, common gift card denominations are $50.
It seems ing is becoming very anal about their rebates.
It became unreasonable when someone split $150 into 3 separate transactions. Why woukd you split it? if the rebate promo doesnt exist, would you have split the payments? Think about it!
I dont see an issue with it. Allow me to explain why?
Splitting $150 into three transactions would be "normal" if one insisted on using paywave (no pin, no signature, ease of use). I've done it at MSY, I've done it at supercheap auto, I've done it at coles express. Heck, I've even done it at Dick Smith when I bought Applecare.
Even if you dont agree with the above, splitting three transactions for $150 is normal because, after my experiences with the sales staff at Myer screwing up my bulk gift card purchases. These days, I make it easy for them by doing one at a time.
Well if the rebate prom doesn't exist, would you have signed up for an ING account? Think about it!
Isnt that the point of the promotion? If you dont want people to take advantage of the promotion. There are two options:
a) dont advertise it
b) set clear usage termsBut dont advertise it with ambiguous terms and then turn around put the account on hold without any notice, leaving the customers in the dark and then accuse them of abusing the promotion.
I think that's the key question. What was the purpose of ING running a promotion if not to attract customers? Having attracted customers by advertising the promotion, but then blocking and closing accounts if you make use of the promotion ING aren't doing themselves any favours. I agree that the simple solution would be clear usage terms. That would protect ING from both a monetary and reputation perspective. At the moment it just looks like ING is running a "bait and switch" exercise by advertising something, but blocking your access to the promotion if you actually use it. I'm sure ING didn't set out to hurt their reputation, but that's exactly what they are doing.
That's ridiculous. It is far quicker to just insert the card into the chip reader and enter your pin rather than standing there carrying out three transactions just to use Paywave.
how so?
paywave = no pin. no signiture. no swiping magnetic bars. no inserting chips and best of all, no waiting for the machine to read the card.
Yes, but if you split your transaction up, you now need to wait for each one of those transactions to process too.
I can't see that being faster than processing everything together and using Chip + Pin.
For one transaction Paywave is much faster. But once you have multiple transactions, I don't believe splitting everything up into individual Paywave transactions is faster than one single Chip + Pin transaction.
I have just had the same thing
NYE 1.00 31/12/2013
Yesterday i went shopping bought my shopping , ran back into bilo and brought some phone creditGot a call today saying i was abusing the system - muilt transaction
Bee in my bonnets- anough for me to come onto every forum to comment it
Like wow i am getting $2 extra in rebate - but your going to need to spend $million in marketing to get myself and every one else who read this back into your good books
simple marking
1 of 10 ppl will recommend products/service to other if they are happy
9 of 10 ppl will NOT recommend if they are NOT happyTerms and conditions are changing with effect from 12 March 2014.
http://ingdirect.com.au/pdf/OE_Notice_of_Variation_Mar14.pdfTwo of the more interesting changes are:
We have changed the 'Fees and Limits' section by removing the words "no ING DIRECT fees for everyday transactions".
and
"Should you access any bonuses, credits or rebates in a manner that, in our opinion, is not satisfactory or in line with the intent of the offer we may place a stop or freeze on your account. We may also refuse to honour the bonus, credit or rebate or reclaim any benefit provided to you"
So they are opening the way for fees to be charged and explicitly stating that they can not only stop your account, but reclaim any bonus they have paid. I guess the key is the words "the intent of the offer". The problem with ING is they have never put in writing a definition of what "the intent of the offer" for the paywave promotion really means.
After the last oil/coolant sale at repco, my account has finally been removed from the 5% rebate.
I only bought about $500 worth of stuff on sunday, and again, was circumventing the "quantity" restriction so that the sales person/store manager would not get into trouble.
ING accuses me of deliberately splitting my transactions up, and includes ALL transactions made in the same day. Doesnt matter if its 10 minutes apart or a couple of hours.
It was fun whilst it lasted. I guess its back to using my trusty credit card now. And i can say that this promotion has saved me my fair share of money.
what is unusual about your usage pattern?