Abbot's Coalition steathily introduces mandatory ISP level filtering for Internet and mobile providers, then backflips

So, first the NBN 'Fraudband fiasco' and now this — Abbot's government is now apparently trying to enforce mandatory internet filtering onto Australian ISP's, which according to ZdNet:

The policy comes less than 41 hours before polls open for voting in the federal election where the Coalition is currently expected to win. It is also almost a year after the Labor government abandoned its plans for mandatory internet filtering, and three years after the Coalition announced that it would not support a policy for mandatory internet filtering.

Source ZDnet

Given the severe backlash that Conroy received in 2012 regarding the filter, it strikes me as rather odd for the Libs to even consider the plan — according to their statement (PDF document)

“This is a very different approach to the discredited compulsory filter proposal championed by the Rudd-Gillard government, which was abandoned as unworkable. The Coalition’s approach aims to empower parents — by giving them the choice of whether or not to operate a filter at home, [and] by establishing the default setting as one which provides maximum protection.”

“The Coalition will ensure there is an effective complaints system, backed by legislation, to
get harmful material down fast from large social media sites. Our approach responds to the very clear message received in our community consultations: when children are the subject of harmful material online, it is vital to have a way to get it down fast. Too often that is not available today.”

So it appears they're trying to win over the conservative voting crowd — mainly the mums and dads who worry about what their kids get up to on the Internet and who immediately raise their hands when shown the "Think of the children!" drawcard.

I'd personall would like the government to explain:

  1. How much will it cost taxpayers?
  2. By adding an additional layer to the network, what are the performance overheads (in terms of d.l. speed?)
  3. What is exactly on the blacklist?
  4. How easy is it (for kids, anyone) to bypass such a filter and render it ineffective?
  5. Who actually asked for it?

What do you think, citizens of Ozbargain Australia? Yay or Nay?

Update: Malcolm turnbull on the filter

Update!: The Coalition has done a backflip on the filter scheme. Video and news after the break. The original PDF document is gone and is now replaced by Turnbull stating that the Coalition has never supported ISP Filtering.

The policy which was issued today was poorly worded and incorrectly indicated that the
Coalition supported an “opt out” system of internet filtering for both mobile and fixed line
services. That is not our policy and never has been.
The correct position is that the Coalition will encourage mobile phone and internet service
providers to make available software which parents can choose to install on their own devices
to protect their children from inappropriate material.

Poll Options

  • 4
    Yay ʘ‿ʘ
  • 44
    Nay ಠ_ಠ
  • 20
    I like Swedish Candy

Comments

      • Hi Bruce thanks for the comments. I have some to add, just my angle on the whole thing.

        There is only so much data that can be viewed at once. A HD movie streaming might take 3-5Mb/s.

        Wrong. Blurays require 56mbps. That is for a current gen, 24fps, 1080 film. 4K will be twice >>this (assuming h265 works well). 48fps will be twice this. Both? 224 mbps. 8K is 896. And this >>is just what we know about right now.

        There are two reason you get away with lower numbers:

        1: Everything is over compressed because people just see '1080' and assume that the video is good and are blind.

        Everything is compressed (that is how the internet works) because there is no point delivering media beyond the human capacity to absorb, and a lot of data can be compressed without loss or nearly without loss (especially for fuzzy data like video (compare png to jpeg for example).

        The differences between a full blown Bluray (30Gb+) vs a properly compressed 5-8Gb version are not visually noticeable by many human eyes. Even if they are, the differences are so small they are not important.

        In the rare instance this kind of high resolution is required, then the user can always pay for a higher quality of service. Right now if i were to stream each Bluray uncompressed, i would be paying $79 per month for 15 movies. Its cheaper to go and support the dying Blockbuster franchise.

        And the second thing is - where will anyone find a fully streaming 56mbps video from online? Not one service will send an uncompressed version - it makes no fiscal sense to do so. In the future maybe, but then its hard to predict what is coming.

        In the public debate about this, why has nobody mentioned that 100Mb/s services are already available to a very large community (foxtel/optus cable).

        The current cable system has two limitations:

        1: Unlike FTTP it is not expandable. Google has 1gbps up AND down over their fibre links. In labs we can do 1 peta bit per second.

        2: The speeds you get are based on your local usage. More people use more data: less data for you.

        That is contention, and up to the Telco to decide how much capacity they pump into the area. It is throttled like everything else.

        Like I said before, the problem is not with the speed to your home from the node, it is the problem of lack of speed beyond that. Having a gigabit connection from home to node is not going to improve anything if the pipe to the US is only delivering at 6mbps. This is not an infrastructure problem, its a profit making one. The Telcos are throttling in a big way in order to maximise profits. Download managers may or may not improve that, but then you are adding another layer of 3rd party to your stack.

        These may only have upload speeds double of ADSL2, but that is easily changed at the back end, should the Telcos decide to do so.

        Upload is a HUGE problem. How are they going to magically fix this at the back end?

        The Telstra DOCS service has a total upload capacity of 120mbps, via 4 x 30mbps channels. They have it seriously throttled to 2mbps right now.

        It makes no sense to replace copper metre by metre for a fibre that will become redundant again by the next generation.

        You think that 100mbps is all you need now, but one peta bit won't be enough for 20 years time? That is 10000000 times faster.

        100mps is plenty for right now. I didn't say that is the final answer. Moore's law is still valid, and we are more than doubling our potential speed every year. I don't think there will be any problem keeping up with demand, especially considering that we are already not being supplied the optimal available speeds. "Let the people live on a tolerable level of speed, don't get them too excited, and make a healthy profit in the process" seems to be mantra by the Telcos.

        The future is wireless. A reliable 4G network already boasts higher speeds than many ADSL2 >lines (but charges like a wounded bull). 5g is likely to be available before NBN is fully rolled, >and how silly will the NBN look then.

        '4G' hardly faster than current '3G'. '5G' is not likely to be much better. We can always get >>HUGE improvements by using fixed line services. Also, the more usage, the more it degrades and >>everyone loses.

        The current problem is that those tall ugly metal trees sometimes kilometres away are not the ideal way to deliver high speed internet (too noisy, too much contention). That wasn't the idea at all. The idea is to deliver the fibre to street corners, have a high strength wireless transmitters that can deliver a much higher bandwidth at the shorter distance. People have been working on this type of delivery for decades (a physicist friend who worked for Marconi said they had a patent for this in the 90s), and it is now becoming realised and the way to go forward. It is scalable, easy to upgrade, and less fraught with the same kind of problems that copper has now has (broken fibres underground due to unexpected shovel, water getting into the underground electronics etc).

        Well its all moot now. Fingers crossed Malcolm is cleverer than I think he is.

        • The differences between a full blown Bluray (30Gb+) vs a properly compressed 5-8Gb version are not visually noticeable by many human eyes. Even if they are, the differences are so small they are not important.

          Wrong. Firstly Bluray is compressed. Secondly you can notice the difference. Third and most importantly, even an 8GB re-encode will still have very similar peek bandwidth because the fast moving scenes compress poorly. So this doesn't help you at all (I have a 10G 1080 film that peeks at 60mbps).

          In the rare instance this kind of high resolution is required, then the user can always pay for a higher quality of service. Right now if i were to stream each Bluray uncompressed, i would be paying $79 per month for 15 movies. Its cheaper to go and support the dying Blockbuster franchise.

          Except that 4K Video cannot be purchased on disc (currently), only digitally.

          And the second thing is - where will anyone find a fully streaming 56mbps video from online? Not one service will send an uncompressed version - it makes no fiscal sense to do so. In the future maybe, but then its hard to predict what is coming.

          Easily. Any video conference software will do this if you turn the quality up. Also any file share/VPN if playing live video (or higher for other uses).

          1: Unlike FTTP it is not expandable. Google has 1gbps up AND down over their fibre links. In labs we can do 1 peta bit per second.

          2: The speeds you get are based on your local usage. More people use more data: less data for you.

          That is contention, and up to the Telco to decide how much capacity they pump into the area. It is throttled like everything else.

          No, it is based on the physical limits of the network.

          Like I said before, the problem is not with the speed to your home from the node, it is the problem of lack of speed beyond that. Having a gigabit connection from home to node is not going to improve anything if the pipe to the US is only delivering at 6mbps. This is not an infrastructure problem, its a profit making one. The Telcos are throttling in a big way in order to maximise profits. Download managers may or may not improve that, but then you are adding another layer of 3rd party to your stack.

          Your point is valid, but also missing the point. The back end can be improved, particularly once it has fibre.

          The Telstra DOCS service has a total upload capacity of 120mbps, via 4 x 30mbps channels. They have it seriously throttled to 2mbps right now.

          Subject to total bandwidth available. If they up this then download goes down.

          100mps is plenty for right now. I didn't say that is the final answer. Moore's law is still valid, and we are more than doubling our potential speed every year.

          Clearly you don't actually understand Moore's law and are just quoting it because you have heard of it.

          I don't think there will be any problem keeping up with demand, especially considering that we are already not being supplied the optimal available speeds. "Let the people live on a tolerable level of speed, don't get them too excited, and make a healthy profit in the process" seems to be mantra by the Telcos.

          This is a good thing?

          The current problem is that those tall ugly metal trees sometimes kilometres away are not the ideal way to deliver high speed internet (too noisy, too much contention). That wasn't the idea at all. The idea is to deliver the fibre to street corners, have a high strength wireless transmitters that can deliver a much higher bandwidth at the shorter distance. People have been working on this type of delivery for decades (a physicist friend who worked for Marconi said they had a patent for this in the 90s), and it is now becoming realised and the way to go forward. It is scalable, easy to upgrade, and less fraught with the same kind of problems that copper has now has (broken fibres underground due to unexpected shovel, water getting into the underground electronics etc).

          Distance isn't the issue, it is physical properties of radio waves, you can also transmit so much data.

        • Clearly you don't actually understand Moore's law and are just quoting it because you have heard of it.

          Out of curiosity I was wondering if there was a similar 'law' for networks. I found one:

          Network capacity. According to Gerry/Gerald Butters,[30][31] the former head of Lucent's Optical Networking Group at Bell Labs, there is another version, called Butters' Law of Photonics,[32] a formulation which deliberately parallels Moore's law. Butter's law[33] says that the amount of data coming out of an optical fiber is doubling every nine months. Thus, the cost of transmitting a bit over an optical network decreases by half every nine months. The availability of wavelength-division multiplexing (sometimes called "WDM") increased the capacity that could be placed on a single fiber by as much as a factor of 100. Optical networking and dense wavelength-division multiplexing (DWDM) is rapidly bringing down the cost of networking, and further progress seems assured. As a result, the wholesale price of data traffic collapsed in the dot-com bubble. Nielsen's Law says that the bandwidth available to users increases by 50% annually.[34]

          Note how this applies specifically to optical networks? So if you want your networks to keep up, guess what you should use?

  • Boris…one thing about Mobile "calls to this area are congested" or "lines to the area you are calling are currently busy"

    happens in disasters or large events like the footy plus Data runs like a dog, also you need to have power to the network- no good in Cyclone prone areas ,bushfires….that is all.

    • also you need to have power to the network- no good in Cyclone prone areas ,bushfires….that is all.

      So in context of the NBN how will this help you. In cyclones etc power to essential services will get priority while your NBN at home needs power. A little forgotten factor with the FTTP scenario.

      The NBN power backup in the home … from their website

      A free battery backup unit is also available for premises in NBN fibre areas. It provides around 4-5 hours of talk time on a standard corded phone connected the NBN connection box's "UNI-V" port in the case of a power outage. If you want a phone service with NBN Co's battery backup, you will need to choose a phone service provider that connects your phone service through the NBN connection box's "UNI-V" port, as well as requesting the battery backup unit when ordering the service from the provider.

    • morning shappy1234

      the congestion is primarily because the telcos are deliberately overselling their bandwidth. Once it becomes cheaper/more efficient for them then (hopefully) congestion/contention will reduce. It is exactly the same as what they are doing overselling their broadband services.

      the good old copper wire would still run in blackouts / zombie invasions. An NBN fibre to the home, connected to a router plugged to the wall will not.

      Wireless from a street corner, or from a slower backup service from one of those large electric trees has a better chance of running, and connecting to a phone/tablet/laptop with a battery. But if its zombies, it might be a moot point.

      • Yeah I was actually talking to an ISP the other day and he claims that the main congestion problems with ADSL is in the Telstra Equipment in the exchange - and it's a known problem that they were unwilling to fix - but has been asked of NBN to avoid the same issues this time. He has always claimed ADSL would be far better if Telstra could have fixed the equipment in the issues in the exchanges.

        • As I said before, the problem there is why would Telstra upgrade their equipment when the NBN is coming, its just wasted infrastructure and cost.

          That in itself has been a major issue as although we will get faster access, its the lack of speed until you are connected.

          Pity those who get connected towards the end, they have 10 more years of adsl1

  • -1

    unless it's < $40 a mth we wouldnt get nbn even if it was available now. im also posting this in bed on my phone. faster wifi is the way to go. i dont understand why no one has released a cheap mibile broadband plan ie $20 for 40G. a lit of ppl would use this plan solely then. when i was on pair gain, i had to use mobile broadbnd $39 for 20g and it was annoying keeping track of data. we got adsl recently as exchange was upgraded. but i do miss the convenience of mobile broadband. if only they had better plans.

    • +1

      i dont understand why no one has released a cheap mibile broadband plan ie $20 for 40G. a lit of ppl would use this plan solely then.

      Because even if it was profitable, the people using it would flood the network (even more than now) and nothing would work (even more than now).

    • +1

      This is ridiculous. Services like 3G and LTE are ultimately limited by the laws of physics - there simply is not enough wireless spectrum for everyone to use a wireless service.

      Fixed line data use is growing exponentially every year in Australia. Fibre or bust. The history books will mock us for what we do today.

      • I'd like to blame liberals but based on how easy it was for them to flip about filtering I'm hoping they'll flip about FTTN which any monkey can see is a mistake.

  • +4

    Too many voters have no understanding what Labor's NBN is all about, all they see is the big cost to roll out the NBN. I believe that the ALP has made a mistake by not explaining properly to the general public the benefits of the NBN and how it all works. As long as Joe Blogs can visit his favorite websites he does not care about the NBN. Perhaps if the public understood the NBN better then maybe the ALP would be ahead in the opinion polls and not facing an election loss.

    • Nbn is costing taxpayers zero. It is payed for with government bonds and unless you acrually use it or the services that stem from it you are paying nothing. The alp needed to push this fact as i am sick of hearing mindless lnp voters say we cant afford it.

      • But government bond and dept and debt is bad so NBN is bad. Case closed.

        • +1

          yeah. it's not like building infrastructure is an investment. and you never make any money from investments right. i can facebook fine already and watch Keeping up with the Kardashians online if i leave it for a while and get a beer while it buffers. why not instead STOP THE BOATS! damn asylum seekers downloading shit is why our net is so slow!

  • +1

    someone mentioned ehealth for NBN… well E Health is another was millions and mismanaged by labor. so much red tape involved to signing up for ehealth so that medical clinics can meet their incentive payments that many didnt bother. each person has to sign up for e health… have you? if no one signs up then it wont work. we've had less than a dozen sign up in 2 mths.

    heard about telehealth? the $6k incentive payment is canned now but was a total rort. basically specialists and gp clinics received a $6k payment when they bill their first telehealth item no. this incentive is to help with it costs associated in setting up telehealth. 99% choose skype..!!! which is free!!

    labor has good policies but they just dont know how to execute and manage it well… fine giving schools billions but the money will be wasted on a $800k gym that would have cost only $400k

    • as opposed to LNP's good policies and good management? the 75k bonus for every baby which will be full of loopholes for high-income earners to take advantage of? or are you referring to assigning a 50-star general to play tower-defence by shooting down boats as they approach australia? or managing internet filter policy that survived less than 6 hours? or the NBN which will be obsolete before its completion? i could go on..

      • All people are saying here is its a lose–lose situation no matter who you vote for. It's like the people going on about Australia avoiding a recession during gfc, it had little to do with the government that occurred.

        • yeah, i don't pretend labor is all about rainbows and lollipops or that their incompetence can be defined in words. but it's about the lesser of two evils, and i'm quite apprehensive about the next 3 years

          and i guess you think australia would have pulled through if there was no timely and aggressive fiscal injection into the economy?

        • …so you're inferring that we -had- a recession during the gfc?

        • The point you have to guess about the GFC is

          1. Would the libs done it any different. ie would they have spent money too, Just because they criticised the way Labor did it doesnt mean they wouldnt have done something.
          2. Probably it was the bureaucrats who really saved the country as their expertise transends a newly elected members. Ie they made recommendations which the pollies acted upon.
        • well all that is speculation and doesn't really achieve anything.. you could talk about what they might have done all day. suffice to say labor got us through the GFC as one of the few developed countries that sustained economic growth throughout. i'm of the personal opinion LNP would not have responded so quickly with a cash hand-out, something more reactive - like the austerity measures in europe would be more likely

        • …Doesnt really achieve anything..

          So why bring it up, like you said we have no idea what the other side would have done

          and i guess you think australia would have pulled through if there was no timely and aggressive fiscal injection into the economy?

          You asked the question others responded what they think. :)

        • i wasn't the one who brought it up :)

  • -1

    The mining boom was the main key to avoiding recession during that period.

    • Actually this is very overplayed, mining is a much smaller part of the Australian economy than people realise.

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