Hot Water Bill (Gas?) Backdated - 19 months to $1.7k

hctan on 02/09/2013 - 22:32
Last edited 02/09/2013 - 22:42

Hi Guys,

My ex housemate and I just received a water bill from Origin an amended bill backdated about 18 months for a total of $1743.41 to be paid by 13 September 2013.

1) The reason for the amended bill is because they have been reading the wrong meter. Not because they were unable to access the meter.

2) According to the law: Gas and Electricity bills cannot be backdated for more then 9 to 12 months. Origin claims that this does not apply to hot water and it can be backdated indefinitely.

3) Due to the fact that the bill is in my name I have pay the whole amount and they were not willing to reduce this amount.

4) After being a little harsh with Origin they have agreed to extend the payment date till Feb 2015 to settle this amount.

4) Have since contacted the ombudsman and they are following up the matter, but it would take time. And during this time I will be stressing for the need to pay such a high bill.

5) I am not able to change provider until i have settle the amount or make a payment agreement. So i still have to be paying these robbers until they have taken all my money.

Has anyone here been in the same situation before and found a way to resolve this with all parties being satisfied. I really feel this is a case of injustice that crosses both legal and moral grounds. It is their mistake, they have a loop hole in the law that allows them to backdate for more then 12 months, they were not willing to consider my circumstances of previous housemates sharing the bill, and finally I feel this is just plain wrong to be done to anyone.

Again sorry for the wrong post and for being dramatic. Any help or advice will be appreciated. Cheers.

Home & Garden

Comments

  • sparkles on 03/09/2013 - 01:02
    +1

    That really is a worst case scenario. Expecially with such a huge unexpected bill. Are they trying to give people heart attacks?

    Definitely pursue it with the ombudsman, that really is poor form.

    Out of interest, why can't you change provider? How can they stop you?

    • KMeister on 05/09/2013 - 22:08

      This shows another failure of services in Australia. It's not "them" who read the meter. It's the Energy Distributor's job. They relay that information down to these so called "retailers", who only issue bills on behalf of the distributor after adding their commission.
      Energy retailers only issue bills, and handle other customer end aspects(arranging connections/ disconnections, relaying faulty reports).If they want, like any other business, they can invest back to the energy sector, but they are not required to do so.
      This "middle man" fragmentation originally introduced in the hope of driving down the costs to the end user, by creating more competition.When you compare the energy bill rises over the last decade though, it shows this whole approach is a huge failure.There, that's my rant!

      Answer to your question is, be friendly with the operator who takes your call, after all that particular person is not at fault anyway. Friendly approach could make a lot of difference, but be firm, don't let them ride you. Always take the operator's name and reference number and if you can, record the call as well. If you reach an agreement ask them to email it to you, so you have written evidence. Likewise, after your call, email them stating the same matter, again giving you more written evidence.
      If you can't or not satisfied with the outcome take the matter to the ombudsman. It's really important to show the ombudsman that you have taken all the measures to settle the matter before reaching them, that gives them a strong case to fight for.

      • mponderosa on 06/09/2013 - 09:48

        +1 for being nice to the operator.

        I got the same problem 2 years ago. My gas bill was around $2,500 and electricity $1,500. This is because they billed me the wrong meter.

        After some conversations they they agreed to have 12 monthly installments in 12 months. I paid around $450-$500 per month because they are factoring in the ongoing and future bill as well.

        The key to the negotiation is, in your discussion must involve and bring them as if they are in your situation, and also…

        "… you could check the whole country if you could find a family that is willing to pay $500 per month for their bill… this is FOR your fault and really not mine, I was willing to become a good customer but you did not provide a 'make-sense' installment policy…"

        At the first, they want to make me to pay the whole amount up to 6 months.

        If you still fail, just agreed to the 6 months scheme, and start paying 1-2 times, show them that you are a good customer first, then you could always as re-negotiate to prolong the instalments later.

  • ESEMCE on 03/09/2013 - 08:18
    +5

    First up, $1700 for 18-19 months of Hot water sounds VERY high!
    I don't think my entire gas bill, Cooking, heating and Hot Water would amount to that much!

    So what's the full story.
    I'm guessing that you haven't paid anything for Hot Water over the past 18 months, so barest minimum you should have been putting money aside for the likely bill in the future?
    It may not be the case, but it usually is the case in these sob stories…

    If I'm right you're calling them robbers? When in reality it's actually you who has been "stealing" hot water service from them!

    Why didn't you call them to ask why you weren't getting a bill.
    And if you have been getting and paying a bill, has that amount paid been factored into the amount you owe?

    • mungas on 05/09/2013 - 15:41
      +1

      Good work to the people down voting this comment because they didn't bother considering the other side of the argument.

      • SirFlibbled on 05/09/2013 - 16:10
        +3

        (not that I needed it but..) it could be because it makes a lot of assumptions about the OP. There's no indication they weren't paying anything and it looks more like they were paying SOMETHING (otherwise I doubt they would be so shocked by the amended bill).

      • one man clan on 05/09/2013 - 16:47
        -2

        Good work sympathising with the crooks that have inflated power prices by spending money on unnecessary works and then getting the media to blame the carbon tax. Deregulated power is a bad thing for consumers (which I assume you are, being on ozbargain)

    • GreatWhiteHunter on 05/09/2013 - 17:45
      +1

      I agree with Scuba.

      You pay for what you use. You've got an extended timeframe to pay now which is fair.

      Should it be free because you used it but they didn't charge you the right amount at the time?

  • backpaqer on 03/09/2013 - 08:24
    +3

    Ombudsman. Friends had the same thing happen to them with their electricity bill and were chased for over $10,000 in backdated charges. A guy I worked with used to work in the electricity industry (and I assume gas is same) and said just get the ombudsman involved as they cannot backdate bills where they have been negligent (ie reading the wrong meter - which they were doing in my friend's case)…they only had to pay 9 months worth of power.

    • alizzan on 05/09/2013 - 20:06
      +1

      I would also guess that considering Origin do not provide hot water (they provide the gas to heat the hot water) it's a gas bill. I've had issues with Origin in the past, and they are next to useless. I was moving out, so I ended up buckling, but it's stuff like this that makes me want to sting them for every cent. I know of other utilities providers in the electricity market which have run over budget on projects and want to push the cost onto the consumer.

  • [Deactivated] on 03/09/2013 - 09:06

    I got my hot water & gas bill few days back for 26/06/13 to 22/08/13 and was due on 13 September 2013.The total was $626.98. It is just the 2 of us at home. I called origin and they said it is not for 2 months but for 4 months, and asked me to check if there are any leaks.

    Their billing has been sporadic and sometimes there will be no bills at all. The first bill I paid was .10cents and then $3.91 and then $470.42. They expect us to cough up huge amounts and it makes me feel like they are dodgy because there is no regular pattern in the amounts we use although it is the same people in the house with the same habits and usage.

    They have extended my bill payment till the 27th of Sept and I am not supposed to contact body corporate to ask them about leaks.

  • Shonky on 03/09/2013 - 09:21
    +2

    If you were really paying for a different meter then has that been deducted off the amount?

    $1700 for 18 months of hot water does sound high though. Our storage has hot water costs about $100-150 per quarter for two people ie a maximum of about $900 in 18 months.

  • mparf on 03/09/2013 - 09:28
    +4

    Cannot help, but good luck getting this sorted!
    Don't back down, don't give in to their demands.
    If they screwed up, that's their fault, you shouldn't be having to pay for it.

    I assume if they had read "the wrong meter" then you were at least paying SOMETHING?

  • SirFlibbled on 03/09/2013 - 10:14

    Wow.. I have gas at my place (heater and hot water). I pay $70-80 a quarter (and $200 in winter when the heater gets a daily work out) for 3 people living in a house.

    Your bill is $90 a month(ish). That seems very high. If they've been reading the meter wrong then you've been paying something and this is the difference. I'd keep an eye on how much gas you're using (read the meter yourself and keep track of it)as something is off.

  • bichngocrb on 03/09/2013 - 23:54
    +3

    A Current Affair?

  • hctan on 04/09/2013 - 20:50
    +5

    We have always paid our bill on time and I remember my housemate enquiring on our gas bill as well.

    Hopefully ombudsman can help us out as its their staff error for making that error.

    • lplau on 06/09/2013 - 13:27

      Not really their staff error, it would be the distributors error since they are the ones who read the meters.
      Can you prove that you have not used the water? e.g. they are wrong?

      I don't understand why you are chucking such a large hissy fit about.

      Its like going to a restaurant the restaurant then accidentally puts a few wrong plates on the table, and you eat it anyway. Then they said "we have to amend the bill because you ate the food". And you say "no you put it there therefore i ate it, it is your mistake".

      Also under law "Finders Keepers" is actually illegal, e.g. you find something and you keep it saying "oh he lost it, but i found it therefore it is technically mine".

      So you can also apply that in this case: Where they lost the hot water, however you happen to find it, and you say nothing about it, and pretend it is yours.

      Also for all the people who keep saying check your gas.
      The OP here isn't complaining about Gas or Electricity. He is complaining about Bulk Hot Water, which currently doesn't have any regulations and laws against back dating of bills.

      If you have doubts about your meter, and if it is recording incorrectly, you can get Origin to organize for a contractor (usually with the distributor) to come and take a look and test it. If it is found faulty then they will usually use average usage to cover that period. If it is found working as expected, then you will be charged an extra for the call out.

      I don't think there is any laws which can help you as technically speaking they are correct. However if the ombudsman gets involved they may be able to decrease it and say its a sign of "good will". I don't think they will wipe the entire amount off the table though.

      If the ombudsman still can't help you, you can contact an attorney and argue your way through courts. But I don't think that would be cost efficient as the costs of that would outweigh your hot water bill.

      • RockyRaccoon on 06/09/2013 - 14:14
        +3

        Your analogy sucks, because in the case of the food, you know you are eating the wrong food.

        In this case the OP would have had to read the meter on their own and compare to what they were being charged, I would venture to guess most of us accept the bills we get unless it seems to change radically.

        Wrong reading to me would be very similar to not having a meter read at all.

        But then like most of us here, unless we have had the same problem we have no idea

        • francis.tks on 06/09/2013 - 22:22

          Well your analogy sucks. I mean OP is a victim here, only people sharing a unit will understand this. And its not easy to collect money from previous housemate(hell they may even be in africa). And sometimes we don't have access to our own meters. I can't access my meter in my apartment.

          It is true that we should pay what we use, but you wouldn't want someone to come knocking at your door because they bill you wrongly for a very long period.

  • ilostnemo on 05/09/2013 - 10:11

    I for one, would also be checking your meter,

    Do you live in a set of units?

    All of the other points don't surprise me, apart from point 1.

    How do you know now, that they've read the right meter.

    • Shonky on 05/09/2013 - 11:22

      The meter asset number should be on the bill(s). Easy to check.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/09/2013 - 14:40
    +3

    Some things don't make sense, if you could clarify I can give further info (used to work in utilities industry)

    1. Have you been paying any bills the past 18 months to them? If they have been "reading the wrong meter" they owe you a refund on all the bills you've paid on the wrong meter.

    2. If you haven't been paying or received any bills from them the past 18 months, did you bring this to their attention? email/phone etc?

    3. Do you have the original paperwork they posted when you signed up with them, when you moved in?

    All above info is highly relevant to get the best outcome for you…

  • hctan on 05/09/2013 - 14:43

    We have paid our water bills and electricity. We enquired on gas bills but no response. The amount owing is for gas buy since the apartment doesn't charge us gas, they charge for heating the hot water.

    • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/09/2013 - 17:02
      +3

      "We enquired on gas bills but no response" What exactly did they say on the phone? They would have said something, ie. wrong meter/delayed bills. 18 months is an awful long time. Are you sure they didn't send you letters or phone calls previously?

      You said they advised it was the wrong meter. Why didnt they send bills for the incorrect meter if that was the case? As you state you haven't paid any gas bills.

      There's a big difference between delayed bills/wrong meter and never signing up in the first place on what recourse you have.

      There's a lot of facts missing. Just go to the ombudsman and try your luck.

  • mungas on 05/09/2013 - 14:49
    +4

    "So i still have to be paying these robbers until they have taken all my money"

    Robbers? You did use the service, right? You did agree initially through signing a contract to paying for your use. You're trying to get out of something you used by arguing that it was incorrectly charged. You were never overcharged, you were undercharged, so all they're doing is accruing the amount unpaid to correctly identify your usage throughout that period. I failed to see how this is any way a robbery situation.

    It sucks I agree, but if you use it, you pay for it.

  • RickOnOzBargain on 05/09/2013 - 15:44

    Family four 2 adults 2 kids. $65/quarter. 315L tank (off peak).
    So I'm guessing your total bill should be
    less than $400 for just 2 of you for 18 months.

    Have they shown you any proof that they got it right this time?

    • Shonky on 05/09/2013 - 15:49

      Well there's no such thing as off peak gas. You're doing well at $65/quarter though.

      Still not entirely clear what the OP is actually using though.

      There's more to this story the OP is not supplying. If all the facts are shown he'll get better advice.

      Origin don't supply hot water. They supply gas or electricity. OP says he doesn't pay direct but then says Origin are charging him. Can't be both.

      • SirFlibbled on 05/09/2013 - 16:12
        +1

        I agree, there has to be more to the story (like it's being used for more than just hot water). You don't get a bill for that much for gas on hot water unless a) there's something seriously wrong with the system and it's leaking gas b) the company still messed up.

      • RickOnOzBargain on 05/09/2013 - 16:26

        Yeah. I'm on electricity.
        But I thought gas was supposed to be cheaper?

      • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 05/09/2013 - 16:58

        OP appears to be Bulk Hot Water (BHW) to an apartment building.
        Completely different to individual gas meter to a home/unit.

  • uccoffee on 05/09/2013 - 17:04
    +1

    "hot water" bill from origin adjustment must be those for the gas for cooking, am I right?

    So sad to hear this, the only way to get some discount is to use "INGDIRECT" paywave to pay it and get 4% (cos -1% fee) at the post office :D

  • anthony on 05/09/2013 - 17:38

    Hot Water Bill (Gas?)
    According to the law: Gas and Electricity bills cannot be backdated for more then 9 to 12 months. Origin claims that this does not apply to hot water and it can be backdated indefinitely.

    I'm unsure how you have a separate hot water bill.

    Origin does not bill you for hot water.
    They will be charging you for a combination (or all) of peak electricity, off peak electricity and gas

    So it is just your entire gas bill that they have stuffed up?

    • happychild100 on 05/09/2013 - 17:46
      -1

      Not sure if i understood right, but the place that i am renting is in an apartment/hotel building and i am only charged for hot water through Origin. Water is paid for in my rent payment i believe.

    • neil on 05/09/2013 - 17:48
      +1

      Origin Hot Water

      Origin is responsible for:
      Supplying gas to unmetered appliances in apartments and to common property facilities

      The OP or perhaps his flatmate has started a thread on Whirlpool

      • Shonky on 05/09/2013 - 17:49

        It's a cut and paste so no doubt the same guy. Nice "cross post" though.

  • andyken on 05/09/2013 - 18:32
    +1

    OP not clear enough, do you ever pay a gas bill or never ever pay the gas bill? seem like you try to avoid the answer when everyone asking you this? if you never pay the gas bill then, you need to pay them no matter what!

    • lisss on 10/09/2013 - 10:42

      He says above that he never paid any gas bills… (When someone asks whether he ever paid any gas bills, this is his response):

      We have paid our water bills and electricity. We enquired on gas bills but no response. The amount owing is for gas buy since the apartment doesn't charge us gas, they charge for heating the hot water.

      ETA: Actually, this is inconsistent with what he says in the Whirlpool thread.

      Sorry i forgot to mention that they have credited the amounts i paid so far, and on top of that i still owe the 1.7k. They have been reading the wrong meter or someone else meter.

  • Colombian on 05/09/2013 - 19:31

    Origin does bill for hot water. I live in an apartment and I have a contract with AGL for gas and electricity, however, I also got a hot water bill from Origin which it is shared with all the building.

    I did not know that I had to pay for Hot Water until I got the bill, otherwise I wouldn't have worried about that. It surprised me really.

    I can't change provider because the hot water service is a contract for the whole building. And I think it is through electricity.

  • bluedufflecoat on 05/09/2013 - 21:05

    I get billed for my hot water gas bill by the same retail gas provider, I.e. AGL. However, I am changing providers to Dodo. I'm not sure if they will take over the billing for hot water.

  • destruction on 05/09/2013 - 21:20
    +4

    I'd be interested to see what your last 12mnth worth of bills were. You said they were from 10c to $150 ish.
    If i had a bill for 10c for hot water for a quarter i would be ringing to sort out the mistake not just waiting till i got caught and trying to weasel out of paying.

    • wtfnodeal on 05/09/2013 - 23:55
      +1

      Agree. $1700 of short fall sounds like you paid a penny in the past and should have enquired about it especially knowing you had a housemate to share with. Anyway I had a similar situation which was the other way round that I was charged at a higher electricity rate. Ended up had to call energy industry ombudsman to sort it out for us as Synergy in WA is hopeless in handling complaints. Good luck but if you have evidence that the other housemate should share half of it then should show it to the water & gas ombudsman as well. It is not fair you suffer loss for their mistakes.

    • victorheaven on 06/09/2013 - 09:11

      Agree. +1

      • lplau on 06/09/2013 - 13:30

        Ignorance is not an excuse under law.

        If you knew about it then you should have told them instead of hoping that they will forget and you can get a free lunch.

  • mponderosa on 06/09/2013 - 09:48

    +1 for being nice to the operator.

    I got the same problem 2 years ago. My gas bill was around $2,500 and electricity $1,500. This is because they billed me the wrong meter.

    After some conversations they they agreed to have 12 monthly installments in 12 months. I paid around $450-$500 per month because they are factoring in the ongoing and future bill as well.

    The key to the negotiation is, in your discussion must involve and bring them as if they are in your situation, and also…

    "… you could check the whole country if you could find a family that is willing to pay $500 per month for their bill… this is FOR your fault and really not mine, I was willing to become a good customer but you did not provide a 'make-sense' installment policy…"

    At the first, they want to make me to pay the whole amount up to 6 months.

    If you still fail, just agreed to the 6 months scheme, and start paying 1-2 times, show them that you are a good customer first, then you could always as re-negotiate to prolong the instalments later.

  • onlyletters on 06/09/2013 - 13:47
    +1

    skip countries

  • Windows7forever on 06/09/2013 - 15:49

    Looks like Mr Tan will be taking many cold showers

  • modsec802 on 06/09/2013 - 20:23

    The other meter was probably for a (unused) holiday house which is why the bills were so low

  • Pootie Tang on 07/09/2013 - 13:12
    +1

    You use the water, you pay for it.

    Ombudsman might lower it but still.

  • tulalit on 07/09/2013 - 13:20
    +2

    Hi,
    I don't know if this helps or not.
    The same thing happened to us. I was with Origin in the last apartment then they sent the final invoice. The final invoice had credits and list all the invoices that I paid when I moved in. The final invoice was about $390s.
    I was shocked! Our regular quarterly invoice is less than $100 per quarter.

    I called Origin and spoke to Resolution team (3x times). I said I'm not going to pay this. This is your own fault, and why are you charging the customer if you / your distributors made the mistake. This is unfair. What happen if this is in your position? Is there a credit / rebate that you can do???? I'm happy to pay the final months that has not been invoiced but not the backdate wrong meter reading.

    I was unsatisfied with the outcomes as they CAN'T do anything.

    I went to Water / Gas / Electricity NSW ombudsman and completed the form on their website. See the link:
    http://www.ewon.com.au/index.cfm/making-a-complaint/complain…

    I called EWON (ombudsman) they did mention that they can only charge / backdate the last 9 months.

    EWON emailed me within 2 working days and Origin (senior resolution team) called me within 3 working days. I was still NOT happy with the outcome. Origin is happy to put 50% discount on the final bill and able to extend it until end of October for payment.

    Give OWEN a go and you will never know.

    Good luck to you :)

  • keverns on 07/09/2013 - 15:48

    origin are the most f@#$ up company to deal with.
    i moved into a new apartment on 1st march 2013

    a. they billed me for gas $1200.
    -so i was like ok… the must be some mistake because the apartments only use electricity. ring up.. report it… ok all sorted. found out it was some house at some other suburb which has my name on it for some unknown reason.

    b. when i was expecting the 2nd quarter electricity bill… they never sent me a bill, so i ring up… asking how much do i need to pay and just send me the bill so i can see what i am paying as well.
    - waited 2 weeks still no bills, ring again… wait…ring wait.. its now September and i still haven't received a bill that i want to pay.

    c. so this ridiculous gas bill gets sent to my phone couple weeks ago… saying i owe $5667 dollars.
    - went spastic over the phone, finding out it was that same house in the other suburb. literally went on rage on the phone, feel bad for the person i was speaking to, but wasn't directing at the person.
    -patches me to high management, guy says.. ok we've definitely fixed this up, there's no bills to pay because your apartment doesn't use gas.

    d. electricity again, still waiting for the bill to make a payment. lost count of how many times i have called… double checked my address and other details.

    e. some private debt collector rings me and threatens me about disconnecting my gas service if i dont pay up, and im going to be getting a bad credit rating.
    - went spastic again, told them the apartment complex doesn't even have gas and his reply was "AND? you still need pay it's under your name" oh man every second word became a swear word. -_- then hung up.

    f. went off to ombudsman to fix up all theses, now waiting for a reply. once sorted moving off to another supplier.

    • robbyjones on 07/09/2013 - 16:57

      I had a similar story of being billed for a different address. It took 10 months of frustrating calls to Origin and each time they promised it would be sorted. I finally rang the Ombudsman who gave me a reference number and promised my electricity would not be cut off as Origin had threatened (note I had paid the electricity bill for the address at which I live). It took another couple of months but the ombudsman got it sorted. I did receive a letter from Origin saying as a sign of goodwill they were waiving the bill. Big of them given the bill wasn't mine in the first place.

    • lisss on 10/09/2013 - 10:45

      You are going to have a nightmare trying to get this debt off your credit rating file, so try to sort it out asap.

  • PlasticSpaceman on 08/09/2013 - 15:14
    +1

    I can add to the tale of woe as an ex Origin customer. Was with them for many years, but their billing system seemed to get worse and worse. For the last few years before moving, every now and then we would get a letter saying that they had identified an error with our bill, and here's the new - adjusted - bill. Never any explanation as to what the problem was, or how they were going to prevent it from happening again. The extra cost was usually around the $1k mark. The last time they made a major 'readjustment' this time going back 2.5 years, and a multi thousand dollar debt. Talking with Origin about it, the people were ncredibly rude, and one even hung up on my wife. I also found out about the 9 month rule and was not happy at all that a major retailer did not have checks to prevent this illegal practise.

    Long story short, they adjusted the amount down after telling them we were going to the ombudsman, we paid off the balance over a few months, and then we changed to Momentum. Not including the annual $1k or so extra bill, I figure we are saving over $1.5k per year by changing. Origin were overpriced and at best incompetent. We still get gas through them, and haven't had any major issues from that side of Origin, but if we find someone suitable will switch in a flash.

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