Cancelled Concert - Booking Fee Refund?

karmics on 21/08/2013 - 04:00

I booked some concert tickets a while back. Which were $37ea + $3 booking fee ea. Booked 2 tickets (total $80 spend)

It has since been cancelled and I was called up by the venue (I booked direct) and they said they would refund the money to my credit card. I received $74 back. I find it pretty dodgy I'm now out $6 for nothing. Here's the terms and conditions..

This ticket is sold by or on behalf of any organization/s presenting the advertised event/activity (herein know as “the Presenter”). The ticket is sold subject to any conditions of sale of the Presenter. A complete list of ‘Terms and Conditions of sale’ is available to be viewed at the venue’s website or at the box office (57 Swan st Richmond). Unless the event is specified as an “underage event” entry to performances by persons under 18 is not permitted.
The Presenter reserves the right to add, withdraw, substitute artists and/or vary advertised programs, prices and seating arrangements (where applicable). Tickets are non-transferable or refundable. The Presenter is under no obligation to refund monies due to program changes, non-use, cancellation or dissatisfaction. Booking Fees are charged to offset bank fees and administration costs and are not refundable.

Obviously the terms state they are not refundable, I'm more wondering if this is legal? Seems a bit dodgy to me. Bank costs would not come to $6 for a CC transaction!

General Discussion

Comments

  • drdolphin on 21/08/2013 - 08:53

    Sadly its legal. I've had the same situation where the band cancelled, and I lost $6 per ticket. Fought them for ages on it but turns out its in the terms and conditions that they dont have to refund the admin fees, and the ACCC backed them up.

  • treeman on 21/08/2013 - 08:57

    Who were they booked through?

    I was seeing a 30 seconds to mars concert that got postponed. Wanted my money back so just had to post it and got refunded everything including booking fees. I was amazed. However I did have to send the ticket back registered post. That was through ticketmaster.

    • karmics on 21/08/2013 - 22:09

      Booked Direct via The Corner Hotel website.

  • ilostnemo on 21/08/2013 - 10:01
    +1

    It's definitely legal
    It definitely sucks.

      • ilostnemo on 21/08/2013 - 14:16
        +1

        What do you want proof of.

        Do you want proof, that when you enter into a contract and later decide you don't like the terms, you can just make them up to suit yourself.

        And yes, you blew my cover, well done.

        If you want to start a class action, I'll be behind you, I lost out on a concert many years ago, hopefully we can also claim loss of income as I camped out for these tickets and received front row to later find out the singer broke her ankle at a Melbourne show.

        • linkbrah on 21/08/2013 - 17:30
          -5

          By reading this sentence you agree to transfer all your assets to jv.
          I'm asking for proof on it's legality.

          Off the top of my head:
          There is the Australian Consumer Law which may very well cover this senario.

          From a quick search:

          Say you buy breaks from http://www.dba.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/Warranty-St…

          2.5 To the extent permitted by law, all other warranties whether implied or otherwise, not set out in this Warranty are excluded and We are not liable in contract, tort (including, without limitation, negligence or breach of statutory duty) or otherwise to compensate You for:(i) any increased costs or expenses;(ii) any loss of profit, revenue, business, contracts or anticipated savings;(iii) any loss or expense resulting from a claim by a third party; or(iv) any special, indirect or consequential loss or damage of any nature whatsoever caused by Our failure in complying with our obligations.

          Which fail causing your car to be written off and serious injuries to yourself.

          That part of their warranty is illegal and unenforceable http://www.accc.gov.au/consumers/consumer-rights-guarantees/…

          Of course feel free to give all your stuff to jv.

  • c64 on 21/08/2013 - 10:07
    +4

    Obviously the terms state they are not refundable, I'm more wondering if this is legal? Seems a bit dodgy to me. Bank costs would not come to $6 for a CC transaction!

    just because it is in the t&cs doesn't mean it is binding. i suggest you ring fair trading and enquire with them about whether you can get the booking fee back. i'm guessing the have dealt with this situation before and will know.

    • SirFlibbled on 21/08/2013 - 13:54

      Would more likely be binding as they entered into a contract where the T&Cs forms conditions to the contract. Would be a pretty woeful business who didn't incorporate the T&Cs into the contract.

      • c64 on 21/08/2013 - 16:20
        +3

        australian consumer law can override t&cs in contracts. t&cs can be unfair and not binding (eg, we reserve to right to change these t&cs at anytime, etc).

        • SirFlibbled on 21/08/2013 - 16:39
          +2

          Yes but in this context we're talking about a fee for services. The ACL would not override it in this circumstance.

          People think the ACL is a magic wand for all their grievences when it rarely is.

        • c64 on 21/08/2013 - 16:50

          Yes but in this context we're talking about a fee for services.

          for a service that hasn't been received.

          my suggestion was to contact fair trading and ask for their opinion. i'm not in a position to know what is legally right or wrong. but just because there is a term in there, it doesn't mean you can't challenge it.

        • ilostnemo on 21/08/2013 - 17:30

          Did the OP receive a ticket.

          If the OP didn't have her credit card charged, or receive tickets, then I'd say the service hasn't been received.

          I believe you are grasping at straws.

          I thought it was a given, in regards to booking fees being non-refundable

        • SirFlibbled on 21/08/2013 - 20:10
          +1

          The fees were performed for the act of administration and issuance of the ticket which is separate to the cost of the ticket itself. This service was performed.

          I'm a simple non-paying much attention to the ACL lawyer but IMO it seems reasonable that this fee isn't refunded when the event is cancelled (unless the cancellation was due to the ticket company somehow).

          But don't let that stop you from taking it up with them. You never know your luck…

  • ilostnemo on 21/08/2013 - 12:25

    "Booking Fees are charged to offset bank fees and administration costs and are not refundable"

    The words you are missing are admin costs.

    They are allocating seats, producing tickets, some even holding the tickets.

    I don't agree with it, but I can easily see them justifying $6.00 for it.

    • derpdeder on 21/08/2013 - 13:36
      +5

      Costs that should be passed in to the performer or promoter, not the customer.

  • grasstown on 21/08/2013 - 16:18

    Not refundable? Ask them for a credit!

    The Presenter reserves the right to add, withdraw, substitute artists and/or vary advertised programs, prices and seating arrangements (where applicable). Tickets are non-transferable or refundable. The Presenter is under no obligation to refund monies due to program changes, non-use, cancellation or dissatisfaction. Booking Fees are charged to offset bank fees and administration costs and are not refundable.

    I too wonder if this is legal clause, or if the clause is limited to cancellation by purchaser rather than vendor. Sure, the booking fees are charged for that purpose, but shouldn't they be refunded when fault of vendor and no fault of purchaser. As derpdeder above , surely they have recourse to the promoter for those costs.

  • Almost Banned on 21/08/2013 - 21:57

    I have said it before but I'll say it again.
    Try the unfair contract terms of the ACL.
    The reality is that no-one will take action over $6 but maybe have a read of this:
    http://www.consumerlaw.gov.au/content/the_acl/downloads/unfa…

  • karmics on 21/08/2013 - 22:13

    Thanks for the help everyone! I'll contact the ACCC tomorrow and post back with what they think.

    • johnno07 on 22/08/2013 - 07:18

      Booking fees are an administration fee. They cover the employees time who you talked to over the phone or in person, the website/server maintenance fees when you booked online and/or the credit card fees when you used your credit card. Services have well and truly been rendered by the time you have recieved and been refunded for your ticket and you are not, and should not, be entitled to a further refund of the $3 booking fee. Complain about it and you might get your money back, but don't expect it.

      The ACCC has enough claims as it is, I honestly don't know why you'd be bothering. It's not like the vendor is some big bad conglomerate who's just made a mint off your measly $3/ticket. That's not going to cover their losses on a cancelled concert.

      Sorry if that sounded a bit harsh.

      • one man clan on 22/08/2013 - 09:19
        +2

        The issue is that these kind of costs aren't admin costs, they are the standard costs of running a business. Why should they be entitled to it? What if every time you went to woolies you were charged $6 to make a purchase to pay for the admin fees of the staff etc.

        Admin fees a scam. The airline industry knew it and were charging $20+ - as soon as there was any press or a whiff of an investigation, they immediately cut that fee. It will climb back up again, though.

  • ilostnemo on 22/08/2013 - 00:08
    +1

    I wonder what the arrangement is with ticket agency.

    The perth arena holds approx. 15,000, so times 3 that is $45,000 for one night concert.

    I would hazard a guess that the ticket agency collects all its revenues from booking fees.

    So if a concert cancelled and they refunded all charges, they would be out of pocket.

    I'd say it would be a catch 22, ie if they made it refundable, they would probably double the fees,

    My 2c, based on no facts

  • epicaricacy on 22/08/2013 - 09:49
    +1

    They have still done their work providing a booking platform and associated technology, and providing actual tickets, thus they still need to get paid for the work they did. You got refunded for the work the artist didn't do…

    but it sucks

    • leiiv on 23/08/2013 - 08:34
      +1

      But the work of providing actual ticket means nothing if the ticket means nothing. You would not buy a ticket in the first place if you knew the concert will be cancelled. It is the cost of doing business and should be absorbed by the presenter/provider. There should be a disincentive for cancelling events for any slightest reasons.
      Sadly, we can only vote with our money..

  • Windows7forever on 22/08/2013 - 18:11

    Don't kill yourself over $6 mate.

    • leiiv on 23/08/2013 - 08:17
      +2

      $6 for him, but there must be hundreds of thousands people like him.

  • mls82 on 23/08/2013 - 10:53

    My unit complex uses a single energy retailer which supposedly gives us reduced energy consumption rates vs. the major retailers, perhaps a discount of ~5%. I signed up and gave them all of my details. First bill is posted to me after three months. My next bill is apparently emailed to me one month later. Their email goes straight to my junk folder as GMail doesn't like email address such as cs2, cs3, [email protected] etc. I get charged a late payment fee after calling them up to query why I received a text message saying my account is overdue. I call them up and after ten minutes on hold "Sorry Sir, we can't credit you for the late payment fee as our system wont allow it". The late payment fee was >10% of my total power bill.

    Which refers me back to this thread. I will purposely avoid large businesses like Telstra because their systems are flawed and they have terrible customer service. However, I would also avoid small businesses like ERC (my energy retailer) if I had a choice as their systems are also flawed.

    • one man clan on 23/08/2013 - 11:02

      Was it AGL? Had a similar experience with them - using both Gas and Electiricy with them, my gas bill came through fine via email, but electricity never arrived until I got the same overdue text. They said it was in my Bpay view but it definitely wasn't.

      • mls82 on 23/08/2013 - 11:22

        Nah I'm talking about ERC, which is a small energy retailer in Queensland. I haven't looked into Australian consumer laws but in all the fine print that I've read, responsibility and accountability always appears to be on the consumer to know when to pay their bills and tough luck if they're lost in the post, sent to junk email, etc. What doesn't help is that its generally the providers accounting system determines when the billing cycle is initiated and I don't have a way of reading my meter considering its in a locked panel. They don't even have an online system where I can periodically look up my account to see if any invoices have been sent.

  • samfisher5986 on 23/08/2013 - 12:22
    +3

    Credit card charge back should fix this.

    I hope you guys realise that any online shop could charge an administration fee and then tell you of a issue with the supplier.

    Movie Cinemas charge booking fees, they can just cancel the movie and tell you equipment issues.

    They still have to refund you everything.

  • randomthought on 23/08/2013 - 14:13
    +2

    I was going to say the same thing: credit card chargeback.
    Had a similar thing with venuetix, ordered some tickets for a kids show as a gift and had them sent direct to the recipients but venuetix sent them to the wrong address and so the show was missed. Venuetix refused to refund despite their error (bunch of crooks). The CC provider, virgin mastercard, initially wouldn't do a chargeback either claiming it was against mastercard rules. I have had a similar thing before but with Amex and they reversed it immediately with no arguing. Anyway after I insisted virgin eventually did it.

  • Typical16-bitEnjoyer on 23/08/2013 - 17:31

    You can fight it. Not worth it for $6.

  • uggugg on 23/08/2013 - 19:06
    +1

    For a long time now I've wondered why these ticketing companies don't just include these so-called booking fees into the price of the ticket. Listing them separately really irritates some consumers who can't see the justification of forking out $7 for the privilege of printing out the tickets on their own printer at their own expense. The fact that the booking fee isn't refundable now explains it all

  • ilostnemo on 23/08/2013 - 22:42

    http://www.bbc.co.uk/newsbeat/20706490

    Interesting article.

  • infinite on 24/08/2013 - 11:15
    +2

    Have been in the exact same scenario before. Contacted the ACCC and confirmed that booking fees are not legally payable if the ticket or service was never provided (concert cancelled). They advised me to do a charge-back with my Credit Card provider if given any grief by the ticket seller (which I eventually had to). ANZ refunded my credit card in full, within 7 days, no questions asked.

    What you need to do in situations like this is throw the poor customer service and rip-off attempt back in the retailers face. It's amazing how quick their line of "non refundable under any circumstances" crumbles, when faced with the same full-refund demand from your credit card company. They know their "policy" is a steaming pile of horse shit and not in line with actual consumer laws in Australia. It's why 100 out of 100 times they'll have to refund the money back to the credit card company or face the legal & financial wrath of their corporate lawyers.

  • [Deactivated] on 24/08/2013 - 22:29

    I find it difficult to believe that is legal to keep the fee for a service not delivered according to Australian Consumer Law. According to Consumer Affairs Victoria website (not sure which state you are in) there are two areas that I think this question comes into play:

    1. Not fit for a particular purpose.

    The tickets were purchased for the particular purpose of seeing this concert, and the booking fee has not met this purpose.

    1. Linked Products and Services.

    If there is a significant issue with one product (the concert) that also requires another product to be bought with it (the booking) then both a refundable.

    As already stated, Australian Consumer Law (which is what the Consumer Affairs Victoria covers now, not State laws anymore) can not be trumped by Terms and Conditions. Australian Consumer Law comes first and there are only very specific areas that can be waived (eg: Motor Vehicles).

    Usually it is the promoter who carries the risk for cancelled concerts, no the booking company. In either case no matter who takes the risk of a cancelled concert, they should have been insured if they didn't want to take the loss themselves.

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