Getting Italian Passport?

777 on 22/06/2013 - 10:49

Hiya

Whilst getting passport for our 5 month old for travel to Canada, thought about making her the Italian passport as my wife is an Australian born Italian with an Italian passport by birth to Italian parent. Looking at Italian consulate website that seems to be surprisingly confusing and not clear how to go about it. Calling them is really expensive like $2 a minute. Going to consulate as advised by some, won't be that helpful, saying that they don't want to know you if you don't speak "Italian", and wife isn't that fluent:( . We all are Australian citizens.

Also interestingly according to the Consulate website, myself can also get an Italian passport ( if you are married to Italian Citizen for more than 3 years on foreign soil ), which I am !.

Here is extract for citizenship by Birth

CITIZENSHIP BY DESCENT / DESCENT (" jure sanguinis ")

And 'the son of an Italian citizen parents (father or mother) Italian citizens. Citizenship is transmitted from parents to children regardless of generation, with the condition that none of their ancestors ever renounced the nationality.
transmission of citizenship through the maternal line is possible only for children born after 1 January 1948.
Buy also citizenship Italian youngest son living with the parent at the time when the latter acquires or reacquires Italian citizenship.
Unlike the past, legislation now in force allows the possession of more than one nationality.
Verification of having citizenship. If the progeny of a person by parent or ancestor Italian is not in the registers of the Italian Civil and ensure it is necessary to confirm that all ascenders have maintained and forwarded Italian citizenship. The authority competent to carry out the assessment is determined by the place of residence for residents abroad is the diplomatic or consular authorities of competence; for residents in Italy is the registrar of the municipality of residence . CITIZENSHIP BY BIRTH ITALIAN TERRITORY (" jure only ")

Acquires Italian citizenship:
· the one whose parents are unknown or stateless or do not transmit their citizenship to her son under >the law of the State of which they are nationals;
· the child of unknown that is found abandoned in Italian territory and you are unable to determine >citizenship.

And for Marriage

CITIZENSHIP BY MARRIAGE WITH CITIZEN / A ITALIAN / A.

The foreign spouse of an Italian citizen can acquire Italian citizenship on application in the presence of the following requirements:
a) in Italy: two years of legal residence (residence and birth registration) after the marriage; abroad: three years after the marriage. These terms are reduced by half in the presence of children born or adopted by the spouses
b) validity of the marriage and permanence of the marriage bond until the adoption of the decree;
c) absence of convictions for offenses for which a penalty is provided for non- less than a maximum three years' imprisonment or convictions by foreign judicial authority to a term exceeding one year for non-political crimes;
d) absence of convictions for any of the offenses provided for in Book II, Title I, Chapters I, II and III of the Criminal Code (offenses against the State);
e) the absence of impediments to the security of the Republic. The application for citizenship, addressed to the Minister of the Interior, presented to the Prefecture of the province of residence, if residing in Italy, or to the Consulate, if residing abroad. In the instance must indicate the conditions under which it is believed to have title to the acquisition of citizenship. It shall be accompanied by the following documents legalized and translated:

birth certificate complete with all pertinent data, or, in the case of documented impossibility, statement issued by the diplomatic or consular of the country of origin in which you indicate the exact data (name, surname, date and place of birth), as well as paternity and maternity instant;
· penal certificate of the country of origin and of any other country of residence;
· historical certificate of residence (stamp);
· extract from the register of the marriage records of the Italian municipality which was transcribed the marriage certificate (not to be confused with the certificate or the copy of the marriage);
· certificate of Italian citizenship of spouse (in stamp duty);
· General Certificate of criminal record (in stamp duty);
· certificate of pending proceedings issued by the Public Prosecutor at the Court having territorial jurisdiction over the place of residence of the instant (with brands judicial);
· certified copy of the residence permit (in stamp duty);
· copy of your passport (provided with an official translation in Italian, where the document contains information compiled, as well as in the original language, in English or French), authenticated by the diplomatic or consular post of the State that issued it;
· certificate of family status (in stamp duty).

The final measure is adopted by Decree of the Minister of the Interior, currently within 2 years from the fair presentation of the instance

It suggest that appointments by paying 200 Euro by exclusive online link at this url , which has been broken for few days

Any suggestions will be much appreciated, who have gone through the same

Travel

Comments

  • ilsan0 on 22/06/2013 - 11:01
    +2

    Go to local phone website and buy some credit. You can talk for ages round the world using that.

    • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 13:50

      thx will try that out :)

  • aragorn on 22/06/2013 - 11:19
    +1

    how about emailing them with your query details here:
    [email protected]

    • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 13:51

      they advise to call that number :(

  • TheAviator on 22/06/2013 - 11:23
    +2

    What's the purpose of getting your child an Italian passport if she's an Australian citizen anyway? I'd think Canada would treat both countries the same, perhaps treat Australians a little better if anything.

    • zelda707 on 22/06/2013 - 12:40

      agreed, i'm not sure why you would need an italian passport

    • retiredfeline on 22/06/2013 - 12:49

      Chances are it will cost you money and frustration to get the passport issued, even if she satisfies the conditions. What would be the gain from that? Canada's in the Commonwealth and if anything, would regard a fellow Commonweath passport better. She's not going to be of age to work in the EU for many years. So be an OzB'er and save some money.

    • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 13:51

      i already have a canadian citizenship and american green card but that not for travelling to Canada, that is not issue.
      Just want to have as an option, if she ever needs.
      As with EU passport, you can work and live in EU as long as you want it
      As a an IT professional, i will love to work in Germany for two years :)

      • Monad on 23/06/2013 - 22:25

        Yeah, I get you. I got my Aussie born daughter British citizenship. If she wants to live, travel or work in the EU, she can for however she likes when she grows up. I can't give you advice per Italian citizenship, but I can tell you government bureaucracy (generally and especially with regard to citizenship application) is frequently contradictory, confusing and slow. The language barrier would only confound the issue, but you'll get there if criteria is met. Best of luck.

        • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 12:13

          Thanks, yeah for the same reason as you. Never know what EU will be like in a decade or two.
          IMO they have potential to be centre of all businesses around the world and economic superpower

  • Almost Banned on 22/06/2013 - 12:57
    +2

    In answer to those querying why get an italian passport, having citizenship of a EU country will have benefits for you and your child whenever travelling to a host of countries.
    Why the heck wouldn't you want another passport?

    • retiredfeline on 22/06/2013 - 13:03
      +3

      The benefits to the child do not necessary accrue to the parent. Cite me a benefit of travelling with with a 5 month old with an EU passport. Why would you pay for something that has no tangible benefit at the moment, bearing in mind that passports have to be renewed periodically? She can probably get her own Italian passport when she's old enough.

      • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 13:55

        sorry should have been clear, the reason we got the Australian passport is, so that she can travel for now
        But looking at long term perspective that she or us might need that one day, even for a long holidays

      • nephilim on 22/06/2013 - 14:10

        Problem is the probably, already seen with UK they have been cracking down on heritage passports.

        • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 16:50

          How; cancelling them ?

        • Monad on 23/06/2013 - 22:33
          +1

          Passports and citizenship are 2 different things, can't get first without the second. Anyway, unless Italy doesn't accept dual citizenship, no problem there, at least.

          Not that it helps you personally, but to gain British citizenship by decent, an applicant's parent has to have lived in the UK for at least 2 years. That might be along the lines of what nephilim is alluding to.

        • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 12:13

          Ahh, that explain why my sis-in-law spent two years in U.K with her British Husband. I always thought that was other way around, to get him to Australia

  • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 13:58

    Also have been advised, not as an fact that it will get harder as you get old. My in laws had real trouble getting kids the Italian passport and they had to prove sht load of things to the consulate even though they had right documents to begin with

    • retiredfeline on 22/06/2013 - 15:10

      Your kid's entitlement to EU citizenship doesn't disappear. The passport is not the source of it merely a consequence of it. If you think she will need the passport later then start collecting the paperwork but why pay for a passport until she needs it. You will end up paying for renewals for no good reason.

      What you are really asking is: is it worth the application cost plus renewal fees to test the law now rather than later, if that perspective helps.

      • 777 on 22/06/2013 - 16:53

        You got a point
        Any ideas ,if they change the law and you miss out ? Or they change the law for example born after such and such date

        • retiredfeline on 22/06/2013 - 17:45
          +2

          Usually when they change such laws they have grandfather provisions.

          Also given the disastrously low birth rate in Italy they might welcome her with open arms in 18 years' time. So start impressing on her the right choice of a career starting now. :)

        • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 13:34

          thats good to know, hopefully they start giving them some land too, like russian in 80's when their population was extremely low, they were giving like xx acre per child to the parent, granted it was all snow.
          If that ever happens i am sure it is ozbargained :)

  • coolsteps on 23/06/2013 - 10:57
    +1

    you dont need a EU passport to enter the EU as you can enter using a AU passport. The main thing for the Eu national to do is first register their marriage here with the local consulate which will probably end up costing some money depending if translations etc are required then once thats completed which could take many months you can register your child birth for the EU citizenship which is usually free to do. Then your child can get an identity card at the consulate or once in Europe with the EU member country birth certificate for a small fee if they ever wish to work or live there or do other business. Just contact your local consulate and get all the application forms emailed or posted to you and then make an appointment. As for you getting EU citizenship that will prove be more difficult and expensive and probably very difficult if you haven't lived in the EU member country for a number of years nor speak the language depending on their rules. however the good thing is you can get a free spouse visa to visit or live in the EU because of your EU spouse. It can be a time consuming, expensive exercise and a headache but in the long run its handy for your children to have if they ever decide to live or work in the EU thus giving them more opportunities for their future and their kids future. Do it before they turn 14 and definitely before they turn 18 as then it will only be more troublesome and cost allot more. my kids have 3 citizenships thus giving them more opportunities for their future and their kids future. Good luck with it all.

    • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 13:37

      cool, thanks for this useful information. Was wondering with what my inlaws were saying that it gets difficult as they get old.
      definitely need to look at that

  • browneh on 23/06/2013 - 13:15
    +1

    Assuming your wife is registered in the consulates AIRE database as a citizen, it should be rather easy to get an Italian passport for your child.

    From my understanding (I recently acquired Italian citizenship), you should simply have to fill in a form to register your child's birth with the consulate, provide an original copy of the birth certificate (with Apostille), and an Italian translation from a NATI translator.
    Once the birth is registered (could take a few weeks, they're not exactly known for efficiency), and the child is in the AIRE database of the consulate (in this case Melbourne), at any point in their life obtaining a passport is as simple as filling out the passport application and rocking up with photos and ID to that consulate.

    As far as consulates being helpful, I have no experience with the Melbourne one, however when I was starting the process of apply for citizenship (by birth, but my mother never obtained it previously and hence wasn't registered with them), I went to the Sydney consulate and spoke to them, they more more than helpful in my experience (and I don't speak Italian).

    In summary, assuming your wife is in their database already, registering your child as a citizen shouldn't be too complicated.
    The consulate should be reasonably helpful to (if the staff are anything like Sydney), though appointments have a rather massive waiting time…

    • browneh on 23/06/2013 - 13:17
      +1

      Ohh and as far as obtaining it yourself through marriage… I looked into it for my wife… but just seemed time consuming and costly in the end unless you're particularly keen on the idea

      • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 13:53

        Also how much the NATI translators charge to translate the document.?

        do you know, how much was it to get passport for you wife, was it like in thousands ? As coolsteps mentioned above that I can get a free work visa with my wife, then i am not too keen on spending my time and money for myself, though I would love to work in Germany for a year or two.

        • browneh on 23/06/2013 - 14:02
          +1

          The translator I found was $25 a document, but I'm not sure if that's typical or not… He was an academic at the local Uni. Best to just email a few of them and ask, you can search for the ones local to you here https://www.naati.com.au/online/PDSearch/Skill?WizardId=deaa…
          Though some would do it by post as well I'm sure.

          It was a couple hundred dollars to apply, plus extra charges to issue the certificate of citizenship etc. Then once it's all done about $120 (could be more with the exchange rate falling as it is) for the actual passport.
          I wouldn't say it was in the thousands, likely below a thousand all up.

          There's just a few costs that add up, like they require an original birth certificate, which is a bit less than $50 to have a new one issued, then it needs and apostille which is $20 plus postage for a single side document, then the translation etc.

        • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 14:07

          cool, thanks, will check it out.
          That price isn't that bad
          So the birth certificate, as you mentioned "the Original" certificate, is that the Australian one ? And they want to keep it ?

        • browneh on 23/06/2013 - 14:11
          +1

          Yea the Australian one.

          I just ordered new ones from the department of births deaths and marriages and gave them those, by 'original' I just mean not photocopies really. As long as its issued by BD&M.

          They keep pretty much all certificates you give them too

        • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 12:04

          cool thanks, will order them online , they are pretty straight forward to order

    • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 13:43

      Thank you so much for this wonderful piece of information.
      Yeah i am assuming that she is in that database as she has a Italian passport. Now her last name in Italian is the old name but the Australian passport is with my last name. So might need to get that fixed, assuming have to provide the translated marriage certificate and also register our kid in the database.

      Hopefully the Melbourne staff is as helpful as the one you experienced in Sydney :(

      • browneh on 23/06/2013 - 13:51
        +1

        No problem!

        Yea definitely, do you know where the passport was issued? I'm assuming it was at the consulate if she was born here, in which case she'd have to be in their database.

        Registering your marriage as well would be wise, technically Italian citizens are meant to 'update' their details, address, marriage, births etc promptly, though they obviously can't force you too.
        But it would result in her married name being on the database as well, which would likely be listed on your childs birth certificate as well, so you can see it all works itself out really.

        I think there were forms on the FAQ's section on the Melbourne site to do all this by the way, if not there was definitely an email listed to request them.. Just find/request the forms to register a marriage and to register a birth, send them in and it should work itself out really.

        • 777 on 23/06/2013 - 14:04

          Perfect. Made it really easy for me -register marriage and birth of child and that should atleast get in their Database and would be easy to go to next step if needed be.
          Thank again for that tip, found that on their website in faq section to change the address at
          http://www.consmelbourne.esteri.it/Consolato_Melbourne/Menu/…

  • MementoMori on 24/06/2013 - 11:45
    +1

    Do double checks Italy's conscription/military requirements. I believe they have abandoned it now, but am not up to date on it.

  • insty on 24/06/2013 - 13:25
    +1

    As an half French/Irish that was born in Australia who recently used his French passport instead of his Australian one I would advise only traveling on your Australian passport if you're leaving/coming back into the country.

    My Australian passport is currently expired and I didn't renew it so I decided to travel only on my French passport. When I got to Immigration at Melb Int Airport they had a whinge at me for traveling on a French passport rather than an Australian one however they had no problems with letting me leave the country, coming back was a different story though.

    When I was trying to leave Japan to come back to Australia their computer passport systems were chucking up all sorts of warnings/errors because my French passport didn't contain my Australian Citizenship E-Visa and they wouldn't let me fly back to Australia on it as it was missing this. After a quick call to Canberra this was soon sorted and they allowed me to fly. When getting back to Melbourne, immigration had to do more stuff on their side also and advised to only travel on an Australian passport in the future, not to mention the fact that I had to wait in the Foreigner line for over an hour (fair enough, my fault there).

    All in all, if you're an Australian citizen it is always going to be less of a hassle just to travel on Australian passport rather than your foreign citizenship one. I'll be applying for mine before I leave for overseas again.

    In regards to getting my French passport (may be similar to the Italian one) you will probably need to get your family book (as they call it) and take it to the embassy and fill out some forms. I also had to travel to Sydney to get my fingerprints taken. They should definitely speak English as the French one spoke both.

    • MementoMori on 24/06/2013 - 13:54

      Thanks for sharing! I always wondered how this worked.

      Would it have been OK if you did have a valid Australian passport and left on your French one and came back in on your Australian one?

    • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 18:51

      yeah Consulates are really helpful, when you need them, I needed them once from Malaysia in early 2000's. Canadians were really good

      • retiredfeline on 24/06/2013 - 18:58

        One interesting piece of trivia of EU law is that if your EU country does not have consular representation in a third country, you can claim the same consular rights from another EU country that has.

  • Roary on 24/06/2013 - 14:52

    Hello
    Sorry I have not read all the above but thought I might be able to add a bit into this.

    Firstly I believe its not longer an Italian passport but a European passport. Probably no difference really.

    Now both my grandparents were born in Italy and came to Australia. My uncle and then my bad was born (Early 1940s) then my Auntys were born. Now some rules changed here..

    My Dad & my Mum both have got Italian passports (as well as Australian). My Bother got one also (despite never even having ever been to Italy). I believe I can get one, my wife (who is born in China) and my son etc.

    However my Aunty (who can speak Italian fluently) and have 2 Italian parents cannot.

    I am not sure why.. If you need to know I can try and find out.

    Hope this helps a bit.

    Edit: The passports always use maiden names. My mothers name is her maiden name despite never using it for 50 years!

    • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 18:53

      oh yes, I was reading somewhere they changed a law from a certain date.
      And on also, to get a second passport you should be born after such an such date

  • dealman on 24/06/2013 - 16:42

    Hey I want to get one too,

    Where can I find an Italian wife…

    • retiredfeline on 24/06/2013 - 16:48
      +1

      Look for your match in a thread about Australian passports in ItBargain. :)

    • 777 on 24/06/2013 - 18:58

      Visit Rome, you will know what happens, When in Rome

  • Maxxjet on 26/06/2013 - 12:26

    777,I can't contribute to your query about how to get Italian passport but I would suggest you to get it before any policy change. I'm jealous of the fact that you guys can apply for the citizenship of your country of origin to your child. Both me and my wife are Chinese national with Aussies PR but our kids can't have Chinese citizenship unless they forfeit Australian citizenship. Be grateful your motherland still wants you and your child as ours treats us overseas Chinese as shit

  • ItalianoAussie on 26/01/2014 - 21:23
    +1

    How did you go with this mate? I just completed my dual Aussie italian Citisenship, got the certificate. Now just waiting on the new passport.

  • seba771 on 13/05/2014 - 12:22

    Hi everyone.
    I got my Italian citizenship from my great grand father and I know a little bit about the rules.

    If you are an Italian descendant from your father line, there is no generational limit and the only restriction is that no one in that line had resigned to the Italian citizenship (if they did, they must done that after you born to be able to get the citizenship).

    If you are an Italian descendant from your mother line, there can't be any woman born on or before 1948. For example, my mother born in 1951 and my Grand father was the one with Italian blood so I could get the citizenship. If she were born in 1947 I could only get the citizenship by trial in Italy claiming sex discrimination and that takes years.

    Cheers,
    Sebastian

    • Roary on 17/10/2014 - 20:09

      Hi yes this is a bit confusing. Here is what I believe. I can get an Italian Passport because my Dads, dad was born in Italy back about 1920. My wife who is born in China can also get one and also my children.

      Yet my Aunty (Dad's sister) who can speak fluent Italian and was raised by 2 Italian born parents in aboutin Australia in the 1940s cannot get a passport. I am not sure why I could be mistaking. I think its because my Grandfather got an Australia Citizen after my father was born but before my Aunty was born??

      • theone4Abargain83 on 12/09/2018 - 18:40

        Hi Roary,

        That is correct. If you were a child born to an Italian who renounced their citizenship for the Australian citizenship before your birth (this means any one even any one nowadays not just the 1940's) you are immediately disqualified from accessing Jure Sanguinis, this is unless you can find the next ancestor to prove your blood line. The caveat to this is the ancestor can not be a woman who had birthed any children before 1948 or that womans father, it is only via the male lineage, provided you can find the male ancestors birth certificate and then prove the male ancestors children were the children on the childs birth certificate that can then link to your Aunty.

        The situation sounds similar to mine, I have a post further down with my situation which will give you some explanation.

  • 8200 on 05/03/2017 - 19:54
    +1

    You need to make a appointment online, and they are currently out to November before they can see you.

    They speak English so you dont have to speak Italian.

    Took me 4 years and $1200

    You get the passport same day directly from them once its approved, very proud day for me and worth the coin [no Visa needed for Vietnam, Brazil, Ukraine and others]

    Dont give up, a slog but worth it.

    • 777 on 05/03/2017 - 21:00
      +1

      Good on you Congratulations!

  • 777 on 05/03/2017 - 20:58
    +1

    Thanks yeah we got passport for both our kids, luckily got appointment within a months time at 2 occasions. Did end up getting same day. Our one was simple as only marriage and birth certificate required to Apostille and translated. Also our one's was definitely less than half what you paid.
    Was interview fees, passport fee, translation fee, original certificate fee and Apostille fees
    Honestly don't regret getting them European passports at all. Saving queue time at immigration is huge plus from us, even though it doesn't mean much but when you are travelling with kids to multiple countries it all adds up.

  • JackOz on 10/03/2018 - 01:48

    Currently living in the UK and dealing with the London consulate is virtually insurmountable exercise.
    Lo and behold, a friend suggested I contact a Melbourne based agency Az translations and they took care of everything and the whole process, seemingly impossible or at least too overwhelming became a smooth sailing. They were very knowledgeable and presented me with all the options from the word go. They also apostilled and translating my documents and mailed them back to the UK. All I did after was book an appointment with the Melb consulate, fly in, lodged my documents and got my dual italian Citizenship.

    Few days later I paid additional fee for the application to be expedited and got my passport on the day!

    • 777 on 10/03/2018 - 01:58

      Good on you. Hope you had much more than just making a passport to visit Melbourne :)
      Congrats on your Italian passport

      • theone4Abargain83 on 12/09/2018 - 18:55

        My situation I found out that my maternal grandfather became an Australian citizen in 1929, my grandfather had two daughters (one my mum), however one born in '43 the other in '50. As my Grandfather married my Grandmother in 1940 and at the time of my Grandmothers marriage she was no longer a minor and my Grandmothers father (my Great grandfather) did not become an Australian citizen until after my grandmothers 21st Birthday, my grandmother remained technically an Italian citzien (Aus Permanent Resident) despite she married an Australian citizen until she renounced Italian Citizen in '51.

        The key issue here were the dates of renounciation and birth years of my aunt and mum and then the 1948 changes to Italian legislation regarding women.

        This means that my Aunty is not able to qualify for citizenship being born in '43, however my Mum can. However on my front I skip this completely since my father was an Italian permanent resident living in Australia married to my mother. The jure sanguinis laws applied to me and my siblings and now we're on our way to accessing our blood right to citizenship.

        The current waiting times for an appointment is about late 2020 at the current time of writing (12-September 2018), however If anyone reading this are ever interested in contacting the consulate email them (I am in with the Sydney consulate) so I have been dealing with them and emailing them, a lot of emails back and forth until a reply from their citizenship department scored me a reply and an appointment a few days later.

        They will need the following so you can be Identified to them.

        *Birth Certificate of any parent or ancestor who was an Italian citizen or was an Italian citizen at the time of your birth.
        *Marriage Certificate of your parents
        *Your birth Certificate
        *Your marriage certificate (if you changed your name at the time of marriage)
        *If you want to register your children and they are still minors (you can at the same time providing their birth certificates and registering them).

        Each document above which is written in English and issued in Australia will need to be translated to Italian using a certified NAATI translator, the consulate have a list of known translators who will do this.
        Each Original English document will also need to be Apostilled by the Deparment of Foreign Affairs and Trade who issue Australian Passports.

        At the time of your appointment you will also need to provide them copies of your ID so that they know your current residential address. All the above original copies of documents that you have provided above will be kept in their archives of the consulate and not returned. I have made a concerted effort to have my originals copied and checked by a JP so I don't have to go out and get new ones.

        If you are willing to invest the money and the time I think the whole process is worth it. Your spouse can also gain citizenship by proving their relation to you, but of course will need to provide their details too then wait the time out for that process. The consulate then register you in the AIRE (Italians Residing Aboard Register). All documents get processed to Rome and then to the commune of the ancestor you have elected to register your citizenship from, so if your Father was born in Milan, his would get checked at Rome and then forwarded to Milan commune and yours would then get sent to Milan commmune via Rome and the local consulate you are registered in.

        DM me for any questions.

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