Neutral at red lights w/ handbrake up?

illumination on 10/06/2013 - 13:59

I've been driving an automatic, and I've developed a habit of changing to neutral gear and pulling up the handbrake while at a red light. I used to change gears to neutral while going downhill but changed that habit as people told me it's not good to change to N while in motion. The logic is as follows:

  • On drive, the car moves forward (albeit at a slow speed) i.e. it uses up some petrol doing so
  • While at a red light on drive, you are stepping on the brakes to prevent it from moving forward. AFAIK, accelerating AND braking use up petrol
  • Change to neutral and the momentum of the car is determined by the slope
  • Pull the handbrake up and you're not wearing down your brake pads

Sounds like everything is a win-win. Everything makes sense.

Based on some comments from the recent Fiat 500 deal, I decided to try and Google to see if I could get any conclusive answer as to whether it's worth it or not.

Whirlpool forum post from 2006 - first few posts seem to say it's not a problem, while the posts further down talk about wearing down the gearbox
Forum post from 2008 on Gas Savers - they mostly seem to be in support of changing to Neutral while at red light
Forum post from 2003 - seem to be against it.

TLDR: Is it bad to change to neutral gear with handbrake up at a red light?
From reading various forum posts..
Arguments for: Yes it is fine. It saves a bit of petrol (minimal) but it doesn't take much effort.
Arguments against: No don't do it. It wears down the gearbox.

What's your 2 cents?

Automotive

Comments

  • ronnknee on 16/06/2013 - 14:57

    Accidental double post. Please delete.

  • rhino015 on 17/06/2013 - 11:43

    It seems to make little difference either way really. So it's up to you.

    In terms of the brake lights not being on, i don't see that as a major risk in many circumstances. IF you're stopped at a red light, people will see the red light for quite some time before they see your car. Then they will notice you not moving. And generally you probably have people in front and/or behind you at the lights already anyway.

    If you were slowing down in a traffic jam where you unexpectedly came over a crest or around a bend and noticed traffic come down to a crawl, then your brake lights are important and i wouldn't put the handbrake on and lift off the brake pedal in that circumstance.

    But in my manual car, if i'm stopped at the lights in traffic for a long time, i pull the handbrake on and put it in neutral. why not? zero risk and less effort. Then when i can see the lights for others are red and it's about to go green for me, I'm back on the brakes with it in gear and my foot on the clutch ready to drop the clutch as soon as it turns green (if I'm at the front of the line) as I see it as the responsibility of the person at the front of the lights to take off as soon as it turns green to maximise traffic flow for others(assuming you have made certain it is safe to do so).

    • rhino015 on 17/06/2013 - 11:45

      There's obviously horses for courses as well. If i saw someone in my rear view mirror flying up behind me really fast, then i'd do whatever i can to make it obvious to them that i'm stopped. Always be aware of what's around you and take the appropriate action for that exact circumstance. That's the key.

  • terlalu on 17/06/2013 - 22:14

    OK,. here's one for you guys…

    Is it better to brake hard (over a short distance), or brake slowly (over a longer distance)?

    • Duff5000 on 18/06/2013 - 00:38
      +1

      If you are not on a race track the answer is pretty obvious isn't it?

      It is a bit like asking:
      When cornering should you
      A: Maintain traction
      or
      B: Drift as long as possible, bonus points are given for near misses and time spent in the oncoming lane.

    • [Deactivated] on 18/06/2013 - 07:16

      Surely you can't be serious?

    • [Deactivated] on 18/06/2013 - 07:16
      +1

      Duff5000 has provided the obvious answer and it re-affirms my belief that advanced driver education should be mandatory.

    • _Bruce_ on 18/06/2013 - 07:33

      For fuel efficiency the best result is to not brake at all and coast to the lights in gear. Clearly this is not always practical though.

    • terlalu on 18/06/2013 - 10:01

      Yeh sorry guy, I was talking about fuel efficiency & costs… Not safety/traction etc… I know slowly riding the brakes over 100 metres can't be good for them, but does braking hard wear out the brakes even faster, than braking slowly? What about the engine and fuel??

      • _Bruce_ on 18/06/2013 - 10:29

        engine braking lightly is best for engine and fuel. Engine braking hard is best for fuel, but not good for the engine.

        Braking gently is typically better for your brakes, because if you brake hard they get hot and this damages the surface. Also if you brake late and are keeping speed for the extra distance then you are using more fuel to maintain speed and more braking to stop that extra energy.

        • rhino015 on 31/07/2013 - 11:18

          Agreed 100%. Engine brake slowly over a long period and then use the brakes lightly at the end if necessary. That's the most efficient in terms of brakes and fuel usage.

  • ozb-442 on 18/06/2013 - 13:00
    -1

    *It does NOT. It indirectly correlates. Higher RPM does NOT mean higher fuel consumption. Lower RPM does NOT mean lower fuel consumption. Why not do all your driving in fifth gear?

    Stop being so stubborn. we're talking about lower RPM's here, not gears. Why? Are you asking me why I drive 1km down the road in a 50zone in 5th? The answer is very obvious. What a pointless rhetorical question. So many butthurt OzBargainers here. lol

    You guys are hilarious. When did physics become involved in this? The answer to this thread is no. Find something better to do. lol

  • Moots on 19/06/2013 - 18:56

    I do not see why people make little simple things so difficult. You have a car, a wheel you turn to direction you'd like to go, 2 or 3 pedals depending on your personal preference and a head that clesrly is not on right; how hard is it to stop and go? Why do this neutral crap. Your going to put it back in drive anyway… a friend of mine did this exact problem; we were in mcdonalds drive through and his new volves transmission got stuck, luckily in neutral. We pushed it out of drive through and he called a tow truck $1400 later he had the dash taken apart to get to the transmission from the gear stick because its a bloody volvo and is one piece. It wasn't covered ubder warranty because he caused the problem braking a plastic bit in the holder and that was caused by moving transmission duing motion.

    It's not that hard. Farout.

  • illumination on 29/06/2013 - 20:22

    Oh here's another one.

    Is it necessary to warm up the car's engine before driving? Or is it unnecessary, since when you start driving you will accelerate the warming up of the car anyway?

    • MATTDAMON on 29/06/2013 - 20:26
      -1

      Depends on the car.

      Generally ill start and idle my cars for around 30sec or so before driving them, this allows oil to circulate the motor and turbo/supercharger completely before any type of load is applied to the motor.

      Once im moving i am gentle with it (ie driving it offboost as much as possible without labouring the motor) until at normal operating temp then drive normally.

      Shutdown is be gentle with it around 2min before im going to be pulling up, stop and idle the car for 10-30sec then shutdown.

      The truck is a different story, ill start and idle it whilst i do my paperwork + pre trip inspection, then drive, and on shutdown ill run the turbo timer for 3-5min before it kills the motor.

      Must be a pretty sound routine as ive gotten over 1mill clicks out of motors doing the above, that and treating them right.

    • _Bruce_ on 30/06/2013 - 10:03

      Basically there are two things:

      1: Wait at least a few seconds for the oil to pump around.

      2: Don't rev up the engine for the first few minutes.

      Otherwise you should be fine.

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