Did he have the right to get angry at me? (or how local shoe retailers are dying)

LnotYuna on 27/05/2013 - 17:11
Last edited 27/05/2013 - 17:37

Looking for opinions on this as I'm a bit surprised at what happened to me today.

So I went to the local sports shoe retailer - it's a small shop on the corner of the street - I think it's ran by just one guy - pop in just to say hey, I'm looking around for some new runners, could you help me out? After trying out some shoes, he tries to sell me a pair, which I politely decline.

However, I ask for what model the shoe was, then he immediately did a 360 and went on a rant on how he will refuse to give out shoe model numbers as he would lose business etc. I wanted to give him some sort of payment for his consultation because I genuinely appreciated it (and I was willing to pay for it), but he seemed so pissed off at me (and apparently, many, many other people in the past few months) who just come in, do the sort of stuff I did, then leave without making a transaction. By that point, I didn't think I could reason with him and quickly left the store.

I'm just wondering if he had every right to get angry at me over this. I understand it's a small business and he is trying to make every sale possible, but should it be necessary to lash it out on a potential customer? I felt that if he delivered his rant in a more polite manner, I would have actually considered coming back and buying the shoes from him, but now I'm just that shocked that I'll definitely not be going back again. Also, was I doing anything wrong by doing what I did?

This also begs another question, the death of the local shoe retailer - with online shopping being so popular, how can they keep up?

(Don't know if it's worth cross posting over at Whirlpool, but I'm keen to hear fellow OzBargainer's thoughts on this)

General Discussion

Comments

  • Bunnyburger on 28/05/2013 - 17:20
    -5

    Eh I think he had every right to get angry at you, he does what he wants; but at the same time you had every right to go in to try on his shoes and ask for a model number, his end goal is to make you buy his shoes while yours is probably to get the best value for money.

    I have a dim view of stores like these that pretend they can't compete with american prices; the usual excuses are bandied out - high taxes, rent, shipping etc. At the end of the day if the average Joe can secure a price better than that of a store even without negotiating what does that mean?

    • Bunnyburger on 29/05/2013 - 11:17
      +1

      Sigh, doesn't a store have better buying power and negotiating leverage than an individual? Plus they've got tax deductions and a flat corporate tax rate if they incorporate.

      I was told by this knives store owner in 2010 when the AUD was on the rise, that the stores could not adjust their knives according to the exchange rate and that prices would adjust 6 months later, now it's 2013 the AUD is still holding to some extent and the owner is still selling at a 250% markup.

      Customer service is an important thing, but is it worth twice the undiscounted RRP USD cost of an item that doesn't have any complex moving parts?

      • voteoften on 29/05/2013 - 21:28
        +2

        The Thermomix cult have done the same thing. They raised the price when the currency devalued. It never went down when the AUD sprung up up up.

  • cheepwun on 28/05/2013 - 18:18
    -1

    Shoe Store Guy is on-the-edge.
    He should be directing his rage at the taxes he's paying, the statements he's filing and the lazy politicians he's feeding instead of an innocent customer who wants to shop around.

    A shoe store near me is closing. I'd love to get some statistics on how many are dying.

    • cheepwun on 28/05/2013 - 23:35

      Woah, my messge has faded a bit :)

      In other words, the costs of running business in this country are ridiculous, and we shouldn't be surprised if we see more closures. Much of the rot can be placed fairly and squarely on our overtaxed & overcompensated policies imposed on us from crooks too intent to keep fat on our work.

      I must have hit a nerve with some government workers…

    • Bunnyburger on 29/05/2013 - 00:01

      Eh he's entitled to deductions under the ITAA for costs incurred in the running of his business, hell he can even claim deductions for his trading stock and depreciating assets but they don't tell you that!

      • cheepwun on 29/05/2013 - 12:26

        Compare our taxes and minimum pay to those in the USA, where most of the stuff comes from (after it's manufactured by slaves). More store closures are inevitable.

  • tonka on 28/05/2013 - 18:39
    +4

    If the intention was to deceive the shop owner then of cause they will be upset if they realise. Most people are upset if someone tries to trick them.
    Pretending you want to buy something when you have no intention is being deceptive, ie conning them.

    That said I don't feel it is the public's duty to subsidise an over serviced retail sector. Kmart, Target, BigW, JB etc was the fatal predator for these guys years ago not online retailing, some have just been dragging it out.

  • AlanHB on 28/05/2013 - 18:51
    +3

    I bought a pair of shoes yesterday. I got to try on a whole heap of them in different sizes, saw the different models in person and recieved tips on shoe size/fit. I don't mind paying extra for that sort of stuff.

    Admittedly though if I buy a shoe of the same brand in the future I'll buy online if it's cheaper.

  • Filterchoice on 28/05/2013 - 18:59
    +1

    What if the narrative went like this, OP went into the store tried on shoes. Got great service, then asks Mr grumpy for the model number. Mr grumpy than says sure, here it is, use my wifi to check the price. OP than checks the price and realises it's only a couple of bucks cheaper. Two things could happen:

    1.OP buys the shoes because he wants them now with a real warranty.
    2.OP goes home to buy the shoes and save a couple of bucks, Mr Grumpy then says don't forget to check out my online site. I've got overnight(local) shipping and you can return them in-store.

    Mr Grumpy's problem isn't the online retailers, it's the fact that people have to leave his store to check the price(then never come back).

    What Mr Grumpy really needs is a big sign out the front saying "try on shoes, then check the prices online with our wi-fi/computer". Than build a conversion rate into the profit like a online retailer does with comparison shopping sites and PPC(our equivalent of try and run shoppers)

    • Filterchoice on 28/05/2013 - 19:07
      +4

      Just realised this may not work on shoes. Man we get ripped. I bought a pair of New Balance runners in the US for $49(retail shop) while on holidays. I saw the same pair here for $179. We're obviously getting screwed somewhere in the chain and it's probably not at Mr Grumpy's.

    • PcisT on 28/05/2013 - 20:57
      +3

      If businesses sold at online prices with the rent and wages of Australia, they would not survive. If you want service and a showroom, expect and be willing to pay normal prices. I certainly would.

    • SydStrand on 28/05/2013 - 21:57
      +2

      You're ignoring the costs of running the retail store. Online 'etailers' have significantly lower overhead than an actual storefront. Big retail chains like Kmart sometimes can beat them through economies of scale, or 'warehouse' stores like computer parts retailers offset staffing. Speaking plainly, most stores can't afford to do what you suggest, since the margin is too narrow.

  • onlyletters on 28/05/2013 - 20:59
    +1

    do you blame them? i read somewhere that most shoe retailers are going to charge a fitting fee and if you buy the fitting fee is waived.

    • strangeloops66 on 29/05/2013 - 10:03

      Which is in essence what OP was prepared to do.

      • onlyletters on 30/05/2013 - 18:54

        he said, she said, what happened to the other side of the story lol

    • francis.tks on 02/06/2013 - 13:14

      Well, I can't imagine a fitting fee. I mean sometimes you need to try it to know if you really love a shoe. Also, I prefer buying shoes in retail over online(if its for myself) as shoe sizes and cutting does varies a bit for different brands and designs and I feel its best to have a try before buying one.(and I am too embarrass to go to a shop with intention of trying only)

  • jasef on 28/05/2013 - 21:18
    +3

    If you're going broke, it's understandble if you crack it sooner or later. Whether it is 'fair' or not is another matter. The guy in question may also have been a greedy so and so or just had a hard day.

    My simple 'am I actually a prick' rule of thumb:
    1. Are you costing the business money?
    2. Will you ever make that kind of business money that exceeds the costs from item 1 (can get an idea from online prices)?
    3. Can you guess there is enough profit margin between 1 and 2 to cover the businesses cost to serve?

    As for me - I paid $250 for some ASIC Gel Kayano 19's a month ago from the Athlete's foot. Up until then I've probably paid $100 in TOTAL for running shoes the last decade, and the price hurt a lot.

    But then so has my back pain. I could have stiffed them and saved myself $100 or more. But their service was the reason I can run more often with less pain, and I got a 30 day guarantee. I decided I'd pay the toll because they earnt it.

    I probably won't go back again, but if I did, I wouldn't screw them.

  • KingstonTheNotSoWise on 28/05/2013 - 22:13
    +2

    Regardless of whether the business is successful or not, corporate or self owned, the sales rep/clerk is not meant to express anger towards a customer just for asking about a model number. Although being human (yes, that's right the sales clerks who serve customers are actually humans) it's likely to happen from time to time especially with all the pressure put on sales clerks now days, mainly in self owned, small, or growing businesses to hit targets. If you obviously took 10-30mins or more of his time and asked question after question, not taking in any information, repeating questions in different words, than yes the frustration he had can be understood. But otherwise he should have given you the model of the shoe to build on the chance or a future customer and sales clerk relationship.

    What people need to keep in mind is that a sales rep has every right to refuse sale and service to a customer, this includes providing certain information. But there is a correct, polite and professional way of doing so. Also a sales clerk has every right to ask for a sale but at the sametime, a customer has every right to decline a sale or an up sale.

    Many of my work colegues as well as me can spend between 10-60mins with a customer to ensure they get the product they want as well as writing up a quote for them, only to have them say they will think about it and never return or to go somewhere else and purchase the same products there. It particulary cuts in more when there are other customers who are actually there to buy things either walking out from having to wait too long or getting caught by another sales clerk. It happens, it always will happen and there really isn't much you can do about it, sometimes it's all down to lucking out on a returning or buying customer. The only thing you can do is put on that smile and cry on the inside knowing that your managers and bosses will probably chastise you for it later.

    As for you, the only thing you can do is not to dwell on it and visit another store to find the product you like. Or even visit the same store, you never know it could change his attitude towards you completely (some sales people actually appreciate a returning customer more than you can imagine), not that he entirely deserves it. I've seen situations where angry customers who would never think of shopping at the same place again, have become frequent faces to a point that every staff member happily greets them, even if that staff member won't get a sale, all because they calmed down and took a chance. The customer and sales clerk relationship is a 2 way thing.

    • PcisT on 29/05/2013 - 11:27

      Although I totally agree on the need to be professional, sometimes I can imagine it can be quite difficult on the owner who has invested time, and if nothing was said, people like naive OP would never know this is unacceptable.

    • Davo1111 on 29/05/2013 - 13:47
      +3

      should have given you the model of the shoe to build on the chance or a future customer and sales clerk relationship.

      i seriously doubt any relationship was going to occur as a result of giving out the model number. If anything, giving the number out is going to sever the relationship.

      Likely scenario "the shop keeper was great, i'll come back another time to leech another model number"

      • KingstonTheNotSoWise on 30/05/2013 - 18:51

        Like I said, it's the kind of thing where chances come in to play. You basically kind of have to take that risk in assuming that providing good customer service will attract more, hopefully paying customers as well as good publicity and if not there's nothing much you can do. Especially since not giving out the model number won't really stop the customer from finding it elsewhere or online. On the other hand, it would have probably been better for the clerk to come up with some white lie to prevent them from having to give out any further information. Or even implementing a store policy or something along the lines instead of lashing out and possibly frightening the customers off.

  • sublemon on 28/05/2013 - 23:41

    Very informative and interesting thread.

  • eat sleep repeat on 29/05/2013 - 00:48
    +3

    If anyone has ever owned a small business they will understand why the man reacted the way he did. In fact there was a news article earlier this year about a privately owned store that specialised in gluten free products who either wanted to or actually started charging people to go into their store and browse.
    Why? Because it is getting extremely difficult for small business owners to compete with larger companies and online stores.

    At larger companies you generally do not get the kind of customer service you get in small businesses. People who work in small businesses are very keen on their product knowledge and in general know a large amount of detail in relation to their products and are able to share that knowledge with you. Many people take advantage of that and come into the store for the service but don't actually end up buying anything which is a waste of effort and time for the store-person. For example the news article on the gluten-free store talked about how the owner would answer dozens of questions from customers about gluten intolerance and the specificities about multiple products, and then just leave to find the same product in Woolworths or Coles.

    Buyers generally have a preconceived idea that larger companies will offer a cheaper price which can be true but I know for that store, and even my own store we would do our best to price-match the price at the larger companies, of course unless they were having some ridiculous sale at which point we would be powerless. And if we couldn't price match, we would discontinue the product because we simply could not compete with the larger companies.
    Larger companies usually get their products in much cheaper because they buy in bulk and a small business cannot do the same. Their markup is also ridiculous compared to smaller businesses. For example, many times when the larger companies such as Woolworths had sales, their prices would actually be cheaper than the wholesale price we actually paid for exactly the same product.

    Anyway the fact is, it's extremely difficult for small businesses to survive and it's extremely frustrating when people come in ask a lot of questions, take up a lot of your time and then go off and buy the same product some where else for possibly the same price, if not slightly cheaper.
    So don't be offended or surprised if you see a small business storeperson reacting that way and understand where they're coming from. If you don't plan on buying from them, try not to take up their time.

  • Reubzy on 29/05/2013 - 07:05

    I think we're missing the question at hand "Did he have the right to get angry at me?"

    Of course he did, you are on his property in his time, he has the "right" to do almost anything

    • strangeloops66 on 29/05/2013 - 10:18

      No, sorry, no one has the right to get angry at me for politely asking for a model number, but if I am a victim of his hostile attitude, I have the right to walk out and never return and to tell others to avoid the place too. Getting angry at me isn't going to get him a sale, but word of mouth from me might cost him a few or gain him a few. His choice.

      • Geewhizz on 30/05/2013 - 08:33
        -1

        If you were the OP and treated me like you thought I was brain dead, having just wasted 10 to 20 minutes of my time I'd have probably abused you too. I don't think he's going to lose a lot of sleep over your word-of-mouth feedback either. He's more likely to be pleased for you to warn others off pulling the same stunt that you did, leaving him to deal with 'real' customers.

      • counterbargainglobal on 30/05/2013 - 18:50

        He doesn't need the ' word of mouth' of people who come in, ask for model number and then buy online.

  • Thisisthevoice on 29/05/2013 - 08:48
    +1

    You don't have to be very smart to work out the model number from the shoe or the shoe box. Of course he is going to get upset if you make it obvious you are going to buy online. Stupid.

  • Kempe on 29/05/2013 - 09:14
    +4

    I suppose he can be angry with whoever he likes… but stuff him.
    You don't buy a car without noting the details and shopping around, same with houses and other stuff fridges/freezers etc.
    The world is changing and becoming smaller, online business is cheaper they have to realise that.
    Some people think they have a god given right to your money…..THEY DONT!!
    Local shoe shop to me doesn't have pricing stickers on, you shop and try them on, then they tell you the price, and then get shitty when you baulk at it.
    It's a sales technique
    Like I said…stuff them

    • strangeloops66 on 29/05/2013 - 10:31
      +2

      No price stickers is irksome; I usually immediately walk out.

    • counterbargainglobal on 30/05/2013 - 18:51
      -1

      Some people think having money… makes you GOD.

      You're not.

  • chyeoh on 29/05/2013 - 10:44

    I agree with some of the comments here. Would have bought from this store first and then buy subsequent pairs online in the future. I also do try to find out if the store carries out stock-take/clearance/EOFY sale at all, and usually when these are, if any, so I can try to continue to support local biz someway.

  • hsk on 29/05/2013 - 10:44

    Wonder why you wanted to know the model number of the shoe?

    • Davo1111 on 29/05/2013 - 13:50
      +1

      so he can go online and order it from a supplier with limited overheads and subsequently lower costs.

  • ohsnap on 29/05/2013 - 14:21
    +1

    I think he had no right to speak to you the way he did though I totally understand his frustration.

    I also wouldn't have put myself in scenarios like this. Not that I wouldn't do what you've done - but I would always do it at a large store (even if I have to drive further) where the sales reps can't care less whether you make the purchase or not. These guys are also happy to leave you alone to browse.

    I very rarely ask them outright for the model number unless I can see it myself. I just think it is unfair if I had no intention to buy but still waste anyone's time servicing me. I always feel too guilty and obliged to purchase once I get good service.

  • natsumezoku on 29/05/2013 - 18:05
    +2

    Online stores are cheaper because they don't have to operate a showroom.
    You go into a showroom because they provide services that the online store doesn't supply.
    Then you go back online to purchase the item for cheaper because they didn't have to supply you with the service of running a showroom, which you already took from the store and they didn't get anything out of it.

    Bottom line, he's going to be pissed cause he's going to go out of business because people are going online after wasting his time. Should he have yelled at you is a different question though, he probably would have received a better response if he reasoned with you and said that's the attitude that's going to make him go bankrupt if it continues. But everyone is human and has a tendency to become emotional, especially if their livelihoods are on the line. And if all the showrooms go out of business, then you no longer have any showrooms to visit. If your attitude is good riddance, lower prices online so screw him, then you shouldn't have any qualms about no longer having showrooms to visit.

    Also it's not relevant if no one else was in the store etc. He could have been spending his time doing something else productive in the store, and even if not, it's still wasting his down time and making him do work he would receive nothing for.

    • DealzEddy123 on 29/05/2013 - 18:10

      agree, whether anyone else was in store is irrelevant.

  • DealzEddy123 on 29/05/2013 - 18:09
    +2

    i think he was normal to be pissed off but should have kept it to himself, customer can do what they want (in regards to purchasing or not)

  • berger on 29/05/2013 - 19:39

    Go back, and buy the shoes off him. Make him happy, and you know next time he won't mind wasting 30 minutes of his time. If I had every 2nd customer try a shoe, walk out, buy it online I would be angry too.

    Oh and go post this at whirlpool, and see how you go….

  • MrBillions on 29/05/2013 - 21:08
    +1

    Why not ask for a price match? I have done this many times and this gives the bricks and mortar stores the opportunity to get your business.

    If they come close to a reasonable online price I then still buy it from the bricks and mortar store because 1) I can get it right then and there 2) I want to support Australian retail and bricks and mortar 3) I have somewhere to go if there is a problem with the purchase 4) I can ask questions and hopefully get good service.

    So there are many reasons why I prefer to buy from bricks and mortar stores and we should give them the opportunity to make the sale. So the reaction by the retailer in your example was poor and he/she should have instead offered you to come for a price match opportunity if you find it cheaper elsewhere.

  • petey on 29/05/2013 - 21:17

    Store owner had no right to go off at someone because they asked for a make/model number. No one has the right to be rude to you and you don't have to take their shit. Instead of just losing a customer, this company has made a bad name for himself. I won't be surprised if he closes up in 6months. Someone else above was on point when they said who goes to the first car yard and buys the first car they see.

    Key rule to business, adapt or die. There is no exceptions. If the shop can no longer compete, close up shop and start something new, or go be an employee for another company.

    Take a good look at yourself, you're here to save a dollar, and everybody loves to save a dollar. Who in their right mind has any right to argue with someone trying to save their hard earned dollars? We do it with big companies all the time, but because it's small business we suddenly have to have a heart? Sorry mate, the big guys get big because they were once a competitive small company who made lots of business.

    • natsumezoku on 29/05/2013 - 21:49

      I won't be surprised if he closes up in 6months.

      No one will be. Not because he was rude, but because he was a small business that people took advantage of the service of and then went to online to save a few bucks leaving him out in the cold. He closes shop, goes bankrupt, who knows what loans he has, loses his house, can't provide for his kids. I'm embellishing of course but it's very easy to see how that would make someone emotional.

      Key rule to business, adapt or die.

      True, but in this case it's not really 'they can't compete' and more 'people are taking advantage of them'. They can't compete on price because they're trying to compete on service. However they're not getting paid for service until the item is sold, but they are not seeing any money for their service. If they were to adapt, they'd have to charge you by the minute to help you out in the store or even let your browse and that's just ridiculous.

      If anything you're the one being rude to the store owner if you go in there, waste half an hour of their time then say 'lol thanks for the help, smell ya later I'll go online to find it cheaper because their store didn't have to spend half and hour with me or pay the overheads to make it even possible for me to see the item before buying.'

      We love to save a dollar sure, but not at the expense of exploiting something. If you really don't value the service of being able to try out something in a store, why would you even go into one. In the end stores will close, and you will no longer to have any stores to browse through.

      Also I personally don't see any difference if the judgement is solely based it's a big business or a small one. The difference lies in the degree of service they are providing, and big businesses tend to not really give a crap about you when you're in the store. But if someone in a big store was going through all the bells and whistles with me listening to my needs and then recommending a product I'd want to buy, then I'd still say it's exploiting that service if I then say thanks for your time, I'll go buy it cheaper online. It's just that it happens less with big companies, based both on price and service.

      • petey on 30/05/2013 - 00:47
        +4

        Do you really think this person really cares what loans you have? Does he care if you're out in the cold in 6 months. I'm sorry but when you work in business it's your job to forecast these things, when you can see your business failing it's time to bail or come up with a new plan to attract customers. The internet didn't come out yesterday, it's been around almost 20 years, online shopping isn't new. Also him losing his business doesn't mean he's going down with the ship. How do you know this guy doesn't have a multi-million dollar portfolio? How do you even know this is the same guy that owns the business, maybe he's just a manager that told this person off? Really we shouldn't speak on ifs because it'll make a good novel but none of it is fact. The point is your sympathy will not save a failing business.

        True, but in this case it's not really 'they can't compete' and more 'people are taking advantage of them'. They can't compete on price because they're trying to compete on service. However they're not getting paid for service until the item is sold, but they are not seeing any money for their service. If they were to adapt, they'd have to charge you by the minute to help you out in the store or even let your browse and that's just ridiculous.

        There's a choice of killing off the business to start somewhere else. I mean Nike's and whatever shoe brand are made in china at the literal cost of a few cents. This isn't conspiracy, this had been going on for decades. Service really doesn't cut it when you can pay a guy to literally bring it to your front door. I don't care what fries he asks you want with that. Let's make an example, I'm not gonna pay Footlocker $200 for the same pair of Cortez shoes I can get from Eastbay for $60 delivered to my door with whatever range and colour I want. I'm sorry but some businesses are done, that's a fact of life. My Father was a Carpenter but how many people do you know actually have Australian furniture in their homes? It's mostly Ikea. Do I blame people, no. Industries sometimes die because they can't compete. That's the life of business.

        We love to save a dollar sure, but not at the expense of exploiting something. If you really don't value the service of being able to try out something in a store, why would you even go into one. In the end stores will close, and you will no longer to have any stores to browse through."

        I don't see how shopping around is exploiting a business. I really don't see where you're going with this. Are you trying to say it's better to be ignorant and be overcharged for something because someone smiled and you and shook your hand? A business stays in business because of competitive nature, if it can not offer something of value that buyers would come back for at a competitive price then I don't care how many fake smiles and hand shakes you get, your business will not last long.

        Question: Insurance companies charge you more if you take out a policy at their branch or over the phone rather than taking it out online, this is fact. Do you being the customer spend more money on exactly the same product by calling up or going into the branch because someone smiled or said something nice to you? If you choose the branch or phone, how much more are you willing to pay, where do you draw the line?

        Also I personally don't see any difference if the judgement is solely based it's a big business or a small one. The difference lies in the degree of service they are providing, and big businesses tend to not really give a crap about you when you're in the store. But if someone in a big store was going through all the bells and whistles with me listening to my needs and then recommending a product I'd want to buy, then I'd still say it's exploiting that service if I then say thanks for your time, I'll go buy it cheaper online. It's just that it happens less with big companies, based both on price and service.

        I disagree with big business not giving a crap about you when you're in their store. I walk into Telstra, Myer, Roger David, Footlocker, Volkswagon, Holden, and people always come up to me and ask if I need any assistance. No different from when I'm at a small independent shop or car yard. By your logic you are saying small independent car yards make much more money than dealerships because they're big business and they don't give a crap about people.

        • Tal_Shiar on 30/05/2013 - 03:27
          +2

          it is kind of a OCD thing, but if you type ">" before you reference someones comment, if highlights it automatically that your referencing someone else's comment..

          By your logic you are saying small independent car yards make much more money than dealerships because they're big business and they don't give a crap about people.

        • natsumezoku on 30/05/2013 - 09:20
          +1

          It boils down to this.
          From the consumer's point of view.
          ** Do you value the ability to go into a store and try things on before you buy?
          ** If you do not find value in trying things in a store, why are you going into them?
          ** If you do value this service and use it, but then don't pay for the service by purchasing and instead buying somewhere else, then don't be surprised when the store goes out of business and you no longer can walk into a store to try/browse items.
          ** If you don't value the service and would prefer to buy online and save money, all the power too you, but show it by not going into a showroom asking for a significant degree of help.

          I don't care what fries he asks you want with that.

          Then don't take the fries.

          I'm going to forgo the point of view from the storefront since that will just be attacked 'oh who cares about them, they should adapt to not go out of business' etc which to a degree is true, but it's also counter productive to the consumer who wants a showroom and he's going to be pissed when people use his showroom but still has to shut down because he doesn't get paid for it.

          With the big business thing of course it depends on the store. Hence my point being 'if they bother to help you out then…' since some of them do. I was just saying the majority of the big chain stores wont go out of their way to help you if you ask for advice on products and simply go for quantity of sales. Also the majority of the stores you listed, the items are pretty much locked to that store and you can not go and find an alternative online. For example most people buy phones on contracts not outright, Myer sells brand name clothing that generally aren't highly discounted even when purchased from overseas or online (and a lot of it is seasonal so wont always be available overseas). You can only get Roger David clothing from a Roger David store. If you're buying a new car, you can't really go online and the prices don't vary much, used cars you're not going to easily find a duplicate car to buy online. Foot locker is more in the grey area, but some shoes can be difficult sourcing from overseas (eg. Nikes from the US online store) and you'd have to deal with sorting through fakes etc too. Plus I doubt most people want to wait a few weeks when actually buying shoes because generally people only go in when they need them.

          Counter point, even some small stores won't really give you service if they're bigoted and think you look poor or whatever and don't think you'd buy anything. Like I was trying to say, it doesn't make a difference if a store is big or small. The differential point is how much service you are consuming from them. People just feel less guilty because the big store can take a bigger hit.

          Also it's not 'they smiled and shook your hand'. It's they they spent half and hour finding you shoes, taking your size from out the back, seeing if it's too big or small, listening to feedback you give on the shoe, recommending others for you that would be better suited etc till you liked one enough that you wanted to buy it, but not from them. The level of service you consume is also a factor. Though it's still a pretty hard call depending on the product when the store is charging $150 for something you could get for $50 online, in those cases I'd opt to not waste the store's time trying anything if I see the prices and have no intention of buying from them to begin with unless I'm going to be quick. Even then I feel slightly exploitative and say something like I'm not sure and I'll think about it once I see how the shoe looks on instead of agreeing to try on 10 other shoes until I find something I like.

        • petey on 30/05/2013 - 14:51
          +2

          Look you make some valid points.

          Also the majority of the stores you listed, the items are pretty much locked to that store and you can not go and find an alternative online.

          I was only using those stores as examples, honestly it's hard for me to name a store (besides Bunnings) where I don't get good service. And I'm sorry if anyone here works for Bunnings, I'm not having a go at you personally. It's fact that Bunnings pays record low wages, and you know the saying, "pay peanuts…" But a lot of things Bunnings sell they make massive margins on, if they didn't then they wouldn't bother opening their doors every morning. Believe me there will come a day when Bunnings is the one selling or closing shop just like BBC before them, there will always be competition whether it's online or from another store/chain.

          Honestly I don't shed any tears for retail business owners because most of them pay award wages which are disgraceful to begin with. Most are greedy but I don't boycott them because sometimes they do have good sales on, but let's look at the facts.

          These companies are buying in bulk. Which means they save massive on shipping costs. They don't have to pay a courier to bring it to my door however for me to do that is still much cheaper than buying the item from the store. How can this be if you think about it, logistics and transport factored in. They buy it in bulk, one shipping fee for say for example a container of shoes at a much cheaper price than myself buying that one item. They don't pass their savings on to their customers and employees most of the time and don't even wanna negotiate this.

          Let's use my Eastbay example. Footlocker somehow makes some deal with Nike saying they can be the only importer of a particular shoe, let's call it The Cortez. This eliminates Aussie Competition, and at the same time Footlocker says I'm going to charge customers $200 for this pair of shoes. Now being the customer you can get the same pair of shoes you can get online for $60 delivered to your door. Your argument was you have to wait weeks for delivery, honestly ask anyone who has ever purchased from Eastbay on here and they will tell you it comes within 3 days! Yes that sometimes mean waiting two whole days. Ha! That's retail service, that does impress me, a company located in the USA have a warehouse full of sneakers made in China, they receive my order on a Monday, locate and pack this order, and send it out via Courier and it arrives on my doorstep Wednesday morning. Logistics is the future of service. That does impress me. All at 30% of the cost of Footlocker. I don't have to deal with people who don't give a shit about their trolley hitting my car, the price of petrol getting to and from the store also wear and tear, taking a few hours of my day out to go and get it and after all that getting to the store and finding out they don't have my size or colour I wanted. Instead it takes me 5 minutes online to place my order and I wait two days and it's here, I sign for it, end of transaction.

          People are making points about shoe sizes, and this is so easily fixed it's not even funny. Most companies have shoe sizes on their website, and some even let you print a scale to see what size you are in this shoe. With 3D printing, it won't be long until that sizing issue is eliminated for good.

          Retail business will always be there, it needs to be, for grocery reasons alone. But there will always be impulsive buyers, and those who remain naive to using technology to purchase goods, but overall there will be a decline in either retail shopping whether you like it or not. The only way I see retail surviving and growing if the prices of rent, shops, or wages decrease significantly. The day is almost over for a lot of retailers out there who once made massive margins for decades on goods sold (yes I'm talking about you Gerry Harvey).

          The consumer since the birth of the internet has gotten more informed, and there's no law on intelligent shoppers.

          I seem to think people in this thread who were against the OP and didn't feel sympathy for him/her getting told off by this business owner/manager for simply asking for a model number. I guarantee if the OP was their son or daughter then they would feel differently.

        • natsumezoku on 31/05/2013 - 02:40
          +1

          It's easy to say 'buying in bulk' and fall into the trap of assuming it's all the same price. But a single mom and pop owned store (as in the original post's scenario) isn't going to be able to negotiate as much of a deal as a foot locker. The same goes for a huge online store that despite only needing one location.

          Buying in bulk doesn't mean 'I ordered 20 pieces, so I paid only one shipping fee' when it refers to retailers. It means the company buys so many of them (thousands plus) and negotiates a deal directly with the distributor to get a lower price and the distributor or wholesaler agrees because it doesn't have to deal with 500 individual orders of 20 pieces each. It's a huge difference in what the 2 different retailers pay for the same product. I'm making up numbers here but that's the idea. The difference in price is large enough that you can literally become a middle man simply buying large quantities at bulk prices, then break them up into smaller lots and sell them to stores and still make a profit, whereas large stores can simply buy the large quantities themselves.

          I agree with you that stores negotiating exclusive selling rights is a dick move. But that has little to do with small mom and pop stores. The main thing is we have a huge price discrimination against international products simply because traditionally we've paid more for everything and have yet to kick up enough of a fuss about it so we're continually charged a high price just because we're Aussies, hence shopping online (importing from overseas) is cheaper. The issue is if our money isn't going to the stores allowing us to try the products, isn't it exploitative to those stores?

          There will always be exceptions to everything. All companies are out to make a buck after all, it's just that some are more reasonable than others. You mention Bunnings which I find interesting because I had a flatmate that worked there and from his impression they give good service and the staff are treated well (I've never personally shopped there so I don't know from experience.) I don't think your concept of service is the same as what is being discussed here. For example you wouldn't be able to walk into a Coles and ask for nutrition advice on baby formula etc, but you can in a pharmacy or advice such as 'oh I have a stomach ache but I'm also pregnant and I don't know if Panadol is safe for me or is there an alternative'. Same thing with shoe stores vs online stores. You can't ask an online store 'oh I'm looking for shoes for this specific sport but I have these needs and wants can you recommend something. Oh I tried those but they are a bit narrow, anything similar but wider?' etc (which is exactly what the original poster did).

          Also Shoe sizing isn't consistent for all brands. You can be a size 7 in one brand and a 7.5 in another, even across models of the same brand it can be different because of width of feet ratio to length on shoe models aren't always the same (even though some shoes designate a letter size for the width). And I think foot locker is the one with the pressure pad thing to determine which soles are best suited to your weight distribution too. Also a photo isn't always accurate and can't tell you how the shoe feels on, if it gives enough support where you need it, how it feels to walk in etc. A shoe with a thinner/lower sole than you're use too that's more flexible feels weird as heck to walk in, let alone use for sport. It also wont tell you if the upper part of the shoe is too tight if u have fat feet or something. Also judging how a material feels and it's quality from a picture is hard to do, while not as much of a deal in shoes, it's a significant deal in clothing. I know I've ordered a coat online in the past and it turns out to be of poor construction eventhough the picture looked nice to the point I'm not even convinced the one in the picture is of the same quality and design (ie. they made a nice one, took a photo of it, then ship to you lower quality ones that have the same cut). Also there are other things you can't accurately tell like if the clothes makes swooshy sounds as you move your arms it is annoying to some people.

          And regardless of how 'easily it can be fixed', as long as it isn't done yet, people are still going to go into showrooms. And if you're using 3d printers, you may as well go the full mile and say we should just download 3d schematics and print our own shoes. (3d clothing already exist, there's nice pictures of a plastic dress worn by Dita Von Tease). But as long as we don't have access to it yet, it's a moot point. And if it's so awesome perhaps you should go into business doing it. A more easily and currently used solution is to allow the product to be sent back and refunded free of charge so you can try it (amazon US does this, but it's only free to US customers), however even that has it's problems like you have to pay for it first, and unless you want to order 1 of every size at once then it's going to take way more hassle than just going into a store.

          Also I doubt an employee would go off at a customer like that, since they wont have much vested in the business and wouldn't care that much. It was more likely a store owner who works in his own shop. If an employee exploded like that I would expect the employee to get fired. So little point taking focus off store owners because you don't like them for whatever reason.

          And too your last point, yes I agree, since I feel little sympathy for her myself. It wouldn't make a difference if it were my own child and I'll stay reserved why as to not infer my thoughts onto the poster. It may to you sound 'simply asking a model number,' but it's more along the lines of 'mucked around in his store for a decent amount of time making him take out multiple boxes of shoes and then implying to him that despite all that effort she will choose to simply purchase from someone else because their cheaper despite all his work after explicitly requesting that she is looking for shoes and if the shop assistant would help her out (rather than him being a pushy salesman)'. She wasn't even 'a potential customer' because it appears she never intended to buy from him in the first place. If she simply went in, saw a shoe she liked, and asked for a model number then I'd be fine with that.

          I've seen the other analogies of the situation and I don't think most of them fit well. The one I came up with is would you think it is acceptable if you go to a restaurant, eat all the complimentary bread, drink water and take up a table for 30 minutes and then decide you don't want buy any food? Where this analogy fails in a store you're not obligated to buy anything if you don't like it but in a restaurant it's pretty much implied you are already going to buy food. However in the situation presented, asking for the model number pretty much indicates 'yes, thanks for the bread, I'll buy the item too, just not from you.'

        • petey on 31/05/2013 - 19:00
          -1

          You're like a machine gun with an opinion on this one. Ha!

          I don't think they give you complimentary bread until you actually place an order. Of all the restaurants I've been to, and I don't think you'd be dumb enough to run a restaurant business any other way (not saying there isn't, but you'd really be stupid to). Reason being is because they want you to be hungry at the time of ordering the meal so you over-order. Once you've placed an order then they will bring you bread.

          Also it is up to the shop manager to decide if this customer is really wasting his time or not. He had no reason to go off at her she could of been going to withdraw cash, it will silly of him to assume he lost the sale for good. Believe me customers do come back even after turning you down the first time. I don't really don't like to think anyone has time to waste like that, but then again people don't suprise me. Also being in retail salesperson this salesperson should pick up on the signs if a customer is dicking you around. It's not illegal to window shop. It's not illegal to not be content with the products offered. It's not illegal to leave a store peacefully without spending money. It sounds like you have a problem with that but you do have the right to say, no thanks. You're not legally bound in anyway to buy anything if you enter a store and say hmm maybe I'll try this one on. Unless of course you enter the Scientology building ha!

          When it comes to clothes and shoes I don't buy it unless I really like it. If there is even a hint of "eerrr maybe" what usually happens is I never wear it so I don't bother wasting my money. Also maybe he was an employee with a sales target, you never know. Once again we're speaking on ifs. We just have to realise that this person was there representing this store, and was outright rude because a potential customer did not make a purchase.

          As for buying in bulk, you're wrong about 1000s. Suppliers will take you on board if for example you order $1000 of product from them a month. Sometimes not even that, they will cater to you just at different rates as long as you have an ABN, you can order from them whenever you like. Suppliers do cater to smaller businesses, and there's always more than one supplier.

          This may shock you but I am a business owner, I have started two companies from scratch which I still own and both do very well. I don't need to look at starting any businesses involving 3D printing and I never even mentioned I would, you took my words out of context. All I said was it will solve ANY sizing issues, once again I never mentioned comfort, that's what reviews are for. All the company would need to do is put up a mock print of what size the actual shoe in that particular make is. I never even mentioned 3D clothing.

        • natsumezoku on 08/06/2013 - 22:00
          -1

          Lol yeah, I'm actually like that about opinions on a lot of things and become over invested to trifling arguments over the internet. Kind of annoying of me to be honest for all parties involved, hence took a step back and didn't log in for a while thus late reply.

          As for the bread analogy, shops are forced to let you to browse and try on items before you are obligated into anything, hence they are forced to be the 'stupid restaurant' that allows this because there's no way around it other than to charge a browsing fee or charge for entrance into the shop which is ridiculous. That's why I see it as exploiting the service that's there if you do so. Really there's no way of telling the customer is dicking around if they seem really interested in trying on shoes and appear to be positive about the experience until they do something that implies they won't purchase, in this case that occurred after picking out a pair of many tried on and then asking for the model number.

          When it comes to clothes and shoes I don't buy it unless I really like it. If there is even a hint of "eerrr maybe" what usually happens is I never wear it

          Exactly, you fall under the 'I don't value the service and prefer to buy online' category. Or at the very least you don't waste someone's time when you have little intention of buying. Like I said, that's perfectly fine and I'd be that way myself if sizing was easy for me. No one has any problems with that way of shopping (except maybe store owners who can't keep up with online stores and the ATO).

          And no one is saying you're obligated to buy something if you don't like it just because you tried it on. You're not even legally obligated to buy it if you do like it, or even if you intend to buy it from someone else. But you're still exploiting the offered service even though it's not illegal. That's what happened in this scenario. In this scenario the customer was initially the rude one, and the shop assistant reciprocated, and while most of us agree that wasn't the best course of action, it was at least understandable. In the scenario the person falls under the "If you do value this service and use it, but then don't pay for the service by purchasing and instead buying somewhere else" category hence people siding with the shop assistant. If she was just going to withdraw money to make the purchase (assuming the shop doesn't have card facilities) then why would she need to ask the model number? Of course we're inferring intention here to that action but most reasonable people would assume she wanted it so she could purchase the same item elsewhere. (Could argue she was going to go online to look for reviews on the product but that's unlikely).

          Also about the bulk thing, yes you'll get bulk discounts at smaller quantities, but you get a much bigger discount the more you order. Of course that depends on individual companies and what they decide to do. And the thing about sizing and never mentioning comfort etc. That's exactly the reason people prefer to go into a store to try it on and can't do that online. And it's not just an issue of general comfort, but the shoe conforming to your foot specifically so while online reviews do help, they aren't enough for everybody. Thus the service of being able to try it on in a store is valuable to some people and the store should get some money for it and are justified in charging a bit more than online stores. I was just pulling what could be possible with 3d clothes out of my ass but my point was none of that is available at the moment, hence it's a moot point to the discussion.

          Also just for the record I'm not the one neg'ing you and thanks for having a civilized discussion about it (I noticed you +'ed my comment). I generally don't like leaving a paper trail of 'liking comments' out of paranoia :p

  • cryptos on 30/05/2013 - 05:49

    I can empathise with the shop owner, however it sounds like he needs to get out of the shoe business now, risks are inherit with any business and change is unavoidable, so adjust/adapt/compete or move on, capitalism is a mofo!!

    • samfisher5986 on 30/05/2013 - 11:05
      +4

      Using this logic everyone should get out of the shoe business.

      Won't it be great when we want to buy shoes online but have no where to try them on.

      • Hydevanity on 31/05/2013 - 05:11
        -1

        Then someone will establish a business where you can try the shoes on; where the service exceeds expectations and justifies the price listed. And if they are profitable, more businesses will open to try and take advantage of that until competition makes it unprofitable and then leave again; whether it be forced or otherwise.

        These 'poor business owners' sound like consumers to me.

  • budgetgaming on 30/05/2013 - 11:39

    I think OP can resolve this situation and debate by returning to the store and purchasing the shoes

  • Trickey on 30/05/2013 - 12:32
    +1

    I don't think you did the wrong thing and the staff member should not have acted the way they did towards you, but it does appear that you could have done things better.

    I've always been honest and up front with bricks and mortar retailers in saying that I have done online research and know what the product can be sold for. I then offer them the chance to match the online price inclusive of the shipping cost as the final price (or to get as close as they can).

    This gives them the first right of refusal and avoids possible conflict from the get go. If they're not prepared to negotiate you just politely thank them for their time and leave. Nothing gained, nothing lost.

    It can be difficult sometimes like when there are obscene price differences but in that case you need to make the decision as to whether you should even be walking in to the store in the first place. That said, I find it has often been worth it to give them a chance to put their best foot forward and to try and work out a deal.

  • Baghern on 30/05/2013 - 14:01
    +1

    Stop blaming the retailer, a lot of them have their hands tied. They already have extra cost like rent and staff wages,

    Expecting 10-20% difference is ridiculous, unless its a really expensive item, I'm willing to go 40% more if I really need something then and there. Other times I suspect its just bad business practice/structure, or maybe the small businesses need to go bankrupt to force the cycle, that is force rents and distributors to lower costs.

    Having said that, I have an uncle who owned a fish and chips store, when I'd help him out, he'd ask me to check the prices of the local supermarket for soft drinks and buy them when they're on special, I reckon he wasn't suppose to do that under is agreement with his distributors. My Uncle is now a distributor…

    That's the kind of power distributors have, retailers have very power purchasing power, we most likely get cheaper items, from places like DX than they do from official distributors.

    Anyway in regards to this thread, I feel what occurred here was quite tactless as others have said. I wouldn't do it, its one thing to be cheap, but this has a nasty feel to me.

    • lplau on 30/05/2013 - 16:27

      I had a friend working at Harvey Normans,
      Can you explain why they are selling a TV Bracket for $200 where as their actual cost price is $20?

      I know a few people who works in the head offices of TV suppliers, they can get a 60" LCD for like $400-500.
      Can you explain the mark up at the stores?

      I know a company who is going to bring the 4K tvs in at 65"…. their cost price is like $1500…. You cannot possibly explain the mark up on that one other than plain outright greed.

      • counterbargainglobal on 30/05/2013 - 18:36
        +1

        Unless you actually work in the industry and within the supply chain you can't comment.

        Everyone assume massive mark ups for everything and vilifying retailers but if it were that simple YOU can just cut the middle man out and buy straight from the supplier but you can't can you?

        There are a lot of costs factored into retail. Some of it is massive markup but if they sold everything at cost or near cost to you it's not a business it's called a f@@('$( charity.

      • Baghern on 31/05/2013 - 11:22

        Ummm you should of stopped at Harvey Norman, and of course they try to rip you off where they can. That's why you should do your research when you can.

        What I said is a generalisation of the industry, not nitpicking.

        As I said some businesses probably need to go bankrupt for the industry to change, others are screwed both ways, by the distributor and the customers like the op.

    • ferguscan on 30/05/2013 - 20:30
      +3

      It is entirely the retailer's fault. He didn't have to get angry. He could simply (and politely) have stated: "It's store policy not to give out model numbers". End of story.

  • Twodogs on 30/05/2013 - 14:27

    Well in my opinion if he was a good salesman he would have sold you a pair , but the gist of this thread seems a bit weird to me as you are under no obligation to buy anything from any store and to me wether he was pissed off at you or not he shouldnt have behaved that way , after all its his job to sell you something.

    • samfisher5986 on 30/05/2013 - 14:40
      -1

      How does that make sense?

      If you go into the store to look at a $200 item knowing its $100 elsewhere even the worlds best salesmen couldn't sell it to you.

      Therefore you are wasting his time and creating problems for the business.

      • petey on 30/05/2013 - 14:59
        +3

        Impulse buyers amaze me my friend.

  • lplau on 30/05/2013 - 16:20
    +3

    I think the shop owner shouldn't be getting angry at the customers but get angry at the government for imposing such high taxes for goods.

    Either that or sell it for cheaper, you shouldn't let your past sales push up your price.

    Its Australia, you will rarely get a good bargain at shops, I'm sure everybody agrees with me when I say…. "Invisible Australia Tax" is put on every item you buy.

    If shops help abolish the "Invisible Australia Tax", then shops will get more customers. Why would I buy a laptop in Local Sony Store which costs $3000 where as I can get it overseas (Sony Store) for just below $2000.

    Recently I ordered some Fish stuff (Flourish Tabs), costed me $28 shipping included from Amazon, shops here were flogging them for $50.

    Shoes are the same, My Merrell shoes, I get them for around $80 overseas, where as in Australia its like $200 WTF.

    I refuse to be the sucker who pays the "Invisible Australia Tax".

    You should turn around and ask that Customer Service guy, "If you saw a laptop, it sold in Australia for $3000, and you could buy it overseas for $2000 what would he do?". If he says he will still buy locally then tell him "Ahhhh so you are those suckers".

    Don't give me the excuse of "we have better service". I've seen online shops which have better service than the shops in Australia….

    I've bought at a place where they would answer me even after hours, where as if I went to a shop in Australia just 1 minute past their closing time, even if I guaranteed them I will buy something, they still say "We are shut, go away".

    • one man clan on 31/05/2013 - 12:48
      +1

      What government imposed taxes are you talking about? GST? It's 10%.

      Only specific items have any other taxes imposed (cigarettes, cars, etc.) Not shoes.

      • lplau on 31/05/2013 - 23:22

        Hence the term "Invisible Australia Tax"….. It isn't written on paper, but for some REALLY strange reason, when a product hits Australian soil it becomes almost double the price, its as if the item becomes made of gold or something.

        • tonyjzx on 05/06/2013 - 06:22
          +1

          please dont call it a tax when its not imposed by the government

          the reality is the govt. doesnt levy THAT much… its in the black n white… gst, import duty, state charges etc.

          let's discount Harvey Norman as any reasonable example… they're out to rip off morons

          what happens is the manufacturer puts in their own "australia surcharge" - why? because we're a small market that can afford it - its Adobe, its Mabo, its the vibe.

          eg. Sony as an example want you to buy locally… a $2k laptop in Hong Kong is $3k here… why? because Sony Japan sell it to Sony Aust. for $2k and then they add their costs on top. Sony Australia isnt Sony Japan. They dont do each other favours. A good example is up til recently, Nikon and Maxwell. The distributor needs a cut.

          Sony will try to stop you from ordering from overseas by denying you warranty or not allowing overseas companies to sell to Australians.

          I single out Sony but it could be Nikon or BMW or Adidas or Omega who cares. They all do it.

          Lastly, Australia is NOT a sophisticated market.

          We do not get the range other countries get nor do we demand the better products or service.

          If you've seen the quality and range and price of the products overseas you'd realise what kind of shallow pool we have here.

          But saying that, thats a good thing too in some cases.

          As I've said before, a good example of a competitive industry is GENERALLY, PC parts and lower to middle end laptops and IT stuff. We are very competitive there. Ask yourself why.

          Sure there is a quasi Australia levy on high end laptops or high end PC parts but for all high end stuff we get shafted anyway.

          Australia is not a place where high end consumer goods is a place to buy.

          You guys ALWAYS complain about shoes and sports equipment and other discretionary items. That's the way it is. You dont need it so when you want it, we're gonna F*CK you.

          Australia isnt the consumerist society that other places are.

  • Tal_Shiar on 30/05/2013 - 19:23

    Long story short: two wrongs don't make a right…

  • ilsan0 on 30/05/2013 - 20:38
    -1

    What a Clusterfu.k for something so small.

    You were right to go in and try it out as you are looking for a bargain.
    He was right to go off at you knowing you would not buy.

    Are you that emotionally butthurt?

    Move on already…

  • Weezle on 30/05/2013 - 21:55
    -7

    It's pretty obvious we haven't seen the full effect of the carbon tax yet, expect to see small businesses drop off even more. It's killing them as they operate on small margins and have to cope with unnecessary taxes.

  • mr fox on 30/05/2013 - 22:47
    +3

    The community consensus is pretty clear OP, are you man enough to return to the scene of the crime and buy a pair of shoes? I'd be impressed, the retailer would be impressed, the universe would be impressed.

    • leiiv on 30/05/2013 - 23:25
      -1

      Rubbish. What consensus is clear? I would say bring on the polls.

      • Tal_Shiar on 31/05/2013 - 00:42

        I bet you believe labor are guaranteed to win the federal election too

        • ilsan0 on 31/05/2013 - 18:27

          What a load of shite! You are on ozbargain looking for a bargain. In this case he found a bargain or intended to find a bargain in future so wanted to try the shoe out before he bought it online.

          He is in the right as you Muppets are doing the same here.. looking for a bargain.

          The shop keeper however was smart enough to realise the this potential customer was a time waster and went off at him.

          To me this is a normal transaction and does not require any kind of further dicking around.

          Move on cause you are in it too………………..

        • Tal_Shiar on 31/05/2013 - 22:50

          im kind of curious why you went off on a tangent at my comment, neither party is in the right, both have acted poorly. I'm guessing your a diehard labor voter…

  • Hydevanity on 31/05/2013 - 04:57

    If the people saying you should be expecting that sort of reaction again; then don't shop there or any local stores anymore. What's the point if people and store owners are going to judge you that way.

    The store owner may feel like he's been burnt before and he probably has but aside from his own presumptions, where is the evidence that every person that doesn't end up making a purchase is screwing with him? He'd never know. Assumptions yes, but he is no psychic. And if getting angry because of "past incidents" is acceptable then how about the many times shoppers (I can also use myself as an example) feel pressured, whether it be guilt or so called etiquette, in buying products they don't necessarily need. Aren't they allowed to act on those "past incidents" and take the time to think before making a purchase.

    I usually take pictures of the product tag or item I like, not to find a cheaper alternative on ebay later but so I can remember and ponder about it. So if someone is going to get all agro because they're judging me for things that supposedly happened to them in the past, well be prepared for a fight.

    • Davo1111 on 31/05/2013 - 12:49

      Not sure of your argument here. You advise OP not to shop there because people judge you. Yet you admit to doing it yourself, and are prepared to argue if anyone calls you out on the unethical actions.

  • geebee on 31/05/2013 - 08:29

    What the OP did was wrong. You used the shop and the shop keepers time to get the size and style of shoe to buy with no intention of purchasing from them at all.
    If you intend to buy online then do so, if the item doesn't fit return it or live with it.
    If you want your local store available to be able to try on shoes etc. support them, and buy items that do not need fitting online.
    I buy a lot of items online but never shoes and rarely clothing.

  • Baghern on 31/05/2013 - 15:44
    +1

    Of course what the owner did was wrong, but understandable is what the real consensus is here, he's obviously at the end of is tether having been used and abused by a tactless internet shopper.

    In the end we're going to have to go through the cycle of retailers going bust, and shoppers having no where to compare… resulting in some enterprising retailer coming up with a solution that enables them to make money with bricks and mortar.

    • lplau on 31/05/2013 - 23:25
      +3

      In the end, its all about their business practices, there is 2 ways to do business:
      1. Low profits but sell heaps (see MSY)
      2. High profits but sell less (see HN and most retailers)

      I wouldn't mind paying a 20% premium on a product if it were to support Australian businesses, but I refuse to pay a 100% premium (e.g. double the price of overseas) to support them.

  • johnno07 on 01/06/2013 - 07:50
    +3

    When this deal (http://www.ozbargain.com.au/node/104248) came up the other day I wanted to find out my shoes size. I walked into a Foot Locker near me and started having a squiz at the exact style of shoe. They were double the price (over $120 more expensive) than buying online. Salesman came over to me and asked if I needed help. I told him honestly that I couldn't afford to buy the shoes but wouldn't mind giving them a go. He asked me if I wanted to try them on anyway and he happily measured my foot and brought out a pair for me to have a go in. He was just an employee (on a slow day) and seemed happy enough just to have a chat. We parted ways without any malice one way or the other.

    I work in an independent store and deal with a tire kickers every day so I don't like to be one myself. That's why I was upfront with the guy and would have never pushed him into letting me try the shoes on. I can usually tell if a customer is planning to spend their money elsewhere but I will go pretty much to the ends of the earth for them if they are genuine and polite. If they aren't - they will get nothing from me. I will only give out the specifics of a product if they ask (catalogue numbers etc). It is immensely frustrating though when a customer comes in acting as they they are there to spend money but rather spend 10 minutes weaseling information out of you and wasting your time before buggering off.

  • nicois on 01/06/2013 - 10:21
    +2

    A couple of years ago my gf gave me a pair of Merrell shoes. Perfect fit, and not cheap (>$200). A year later, when I was wearing them out, I took the plunge and ordered another model, but still Merrell, online. Perfect fit, and half the price.

    I've since ordered about 4 pairs in the same way. Each pair has been a perfect fit.

    IMHO the better solution is to run a business where you sell shoe fitting devices, which measure your feet in all possible dimensions, and then offer an online catalogue allowing people to find the shoes which best match their exact feet. That way you sell a tangible product and you help you remove shoe retailers from the face of the planet, by offering an equivalent service for a lot less.

    • natsumezoku on 08/06/2013 - 22:15

      3d scan of your entire body, face and all. Then make it possible download digital models to show how any clothes with fit you via modeling software with your face on it. All super intrusive and most people would be hesitant but I honestly think it will happen (and from memory it's being developed). Seen them do similar things with your face and just photo-shopping a hairstyle over it so it will probably gradually warm up to that kind of thing and eventually become standard.

  • Bigsta on 01/06/2013 - 17:52
    +1

    Im with the shopkeeper, look he should not have been rude but you just wasted his time and lost him money as other ppl may have come in and out of the store while he was busy with you.

    I am self employed and am very sick of ppl wasting my time and info mining me, i helped out someone greatly a few months ago he had 3 other companies bled him dry and still not repaired a very obvious fault (obvious to me as I have a wealth of exp and a great knowledge of the BCA and Australian Standards) made the mistake of telling him before we got the job of what the problem is and how we would fix it. he went with a unlicensed person and because they are unlicensed and have no insurance are cheaper then me.

    very sick of this, i do the right thing and spend tens of thousands on education, licenses and insurances only to be undercut by somewhat doing very dodgy job and then come back to us when it all goes wrong. I am also in a industry where someone doing the wrong thing is not as obvious till it goes wrong and when it goes wrong will prob cost a life so am very sick of seeing dodgy ppl and tightarses take this route.

    I have stopped putting details in my quotes now and just have a general scope of works and total cost, only doing this when we are paid for a full survey of whats required.

    If you are going to try on shoes and not buy them, go to a large chain or to pauls warehouse where its largely self serve dont pick on some small guy who is probably struggling to pay the rent.

  • Thinkswithelbow on 01/06/2013 - 18:24

    I've done this several times recently. Most recent one was at merrel tried on hiking boots got my size and bought it online from the official US merrel store for 70% less.

    In your case I wpuldnt do it to the local guy but a chain store….meh.

    On the other hand just today was looking for some fish tanks, went to the local shop and had a look around…..lady spoke to me for 30 minutes and answered my question…..ended up walking out with 200 dollars worth of gear. Guess I felt bad and didn't want to waste her time (as she prob could have served those other people while I was there) and she gave me excellent service, I'll be going back there now to buy all my aquatic needs

    moral of the story? I'll waste the time of a chain store but the local business who invests time in me….I'll make a purchase

  • ThriftyThug69 on 01/06/2013 - 21:03
    +1

    I have been in this situation, in the sellers position. After spending much time with the customer and then working out that they were just milking me for sizing/fit info to buy online, I politely wrote down the model and size for them and wished them good day. I wrote it down a size smaller. I hope that they got gnarly blisters.
    Bottom line, if a sales/service person is spending time to help you, someone is paying their wage. If you have no intention at all of paying for this service, don't exploit them. Do your own research.

    • chiuy on 05/06/2013 - 03:19

      Flat out liar on a moral high ground. =(

  • fordprefect on 01/06/2013 - 23:10
    -1

    You are under no obligation to buy FULL STOP regardless of service or price.

    Physical retailing in Australia should be able to compete in terms of pricing with international online shopping.

    The days of > 25% markup on retail are over.

    • grasstown on 02/06/2013 - 22:23

      The consensus seems to be we are under a moral obligation to buy. FULL STOP.

      • Davo1111 on 03/06/2013 - 15:25

        not really, the general consensus here is don't take advantage of people.

        OP went in knowing he wasn't planning on buying at all, and was going to shop online.

  • vegemite2008 on 02/06/2013 - 00:36
    +1

    G'day, the guy in the shoe shop should sell his business and work with something else. You cannot judge people that walk in to the shop and think that they are getting the model number and will buy it online.

    Yes, a lot of people do. However, some people would like to read reviews online before committing to buy an expensive shoe or whatever the item might be.

    If the shop owner could provide an excellent customer service instead of judging people, I am sure that more people would buy from him/her.

    The essence is, if the shoe shop owner is getting angry with customers then he/she is in the wrong business.

    Before flaming me, I do feel for the little shop owner as it has become very hard to make money for a great deal of them. Especially since we now have major chains that can utilise economies of scale. Just my 2 cents worth………..

  • ThriftyThug69 on 02/06/2013 - 15:09
    +3

    @fordprefect 'Physical retailing' in Australia CANNOT compete with online shopping in terms of price. The retailer is most often buying the product from their distributor for the same amount that you are getting it online. Unless they are able to purchase directly from the manufacturer (a luxury that only large/chain stores with massive buying power have access to) they are not able to sell at internet prices and pay their rent/bills/employees etc. Small, specialty businesses can only compete on their service and expertise and hope that their customers appreciate this enough to spend money in their stores and allow them to continue operating.

  • Baghern on 05/06/2013 - 16:31

    In regards to good service, some try to over do it and bully you into buying, getting this repeatedly at Rebels Sports was the straw that stopped me shopping their virtually completely. I had one manager take over a sale, try to get me to buy the wrong size, even after I tried it on there insistence it might fit. its a pity I didn't take his name and write a complaint to head office. It was funny to see the entire shop empty at lunch hour… in the city.

  • alebox on 06/06/2013 - 18:29

    I think officeworks has a pretty good business model.

    Decent markup for people who do buy them but potentially reasonable if desperate.

    If you can prove a proper store stocks it, they match + discount.

    I do NOT know if these two things balance eachother out but they might, if they do and they do profit, I think it is amazingly clever.

    Also I have always gotten really good service from there, so its win win from every front as far as I'm concerned.

  • jasef on 08/06/2013 - 20:32

    notYuna has been very quiet. After hearing a lot of feedback, how do you now feel? Would you have handled the situation differently if you'd thought about all these things? Did you go back and talk to the guy?

    Curios

  • Duff5000 on 09/06/2013 - 10:50

    Question OP:
    Why didn't you just look at the model of the shoe when you were trying it on?
    Or just find it on the shelf?
    Or just take a pic and look it up on the brands site?

Login or Join to leave a comment
Login Join